Annoying printers

Char Jackson wrote:
On Tue, 02 Oct 2018 09:38:41 +1000, Peter Jason wrote:

By the way, are laser toners light fast? I have
been downloading a few artworks & either printing
them out on my laser color printer (FujiXerox
CP405d) or printing the A3 version in the local
computer shop.
The quality of the FujiXerox is very good, though
the long-lasting cartridges cost about $440.

I have no idea. Hopefully, someone else will chime in.


I don't see the words "archival print quality" in
the article on toner. Black toner used to be made from
carbon particles, and that material should hold up well.
Something made from colored plastic or wax, not so much.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toner

Paul

Paul wrote:
Char Jackson wrote:
On Tue, 02 Oct 2018 09:38:41 +1000, Peter Jason wrote:

By the way, are laser toners light fast? I have
been downloading a few artworks & either printing
them out on my laser color printer (FujiXerox
CP405d) or printing the A3 version in the local
computer shop.
The quality of the FujiXerox is very good, though
the long-lasting cartridges cost about $440.

I have no idea. Hopefully, someone else will chime in.


I don't see the words "archival print quality" in
the article on toner. Black toner used to be made from
carbon particles, and that material should hold up well.
Something made from colored plastic or wax, not so much.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toner

Paul

Actually, the Wired article will give you
the names of some colored stuff.

https://www.wired.com/2015/03/whats-...printer-toner/

Carbon Black

Pigment Yellow 180 benzimidazolone

Pigment Red 122 2,9-dimethyl-quinacridone

Pigment Blue 15:3 Copper phthalocyanine

Then, if you toss the "end-word" of those into a Google
search, you can get more info. Those compounds are used
in inkjet inks. You would need to find a similar paper
on toner, to prove the compounds are actually in toner.

http://www.cabotcorp.com/~/media/fil...for-inkjet.pdf

The important takeaway from that PDF, is
that the lightfastness varies greatly. It means of
the toner colors in a print, one color might outlast
some of the others. The print will fade in one color,
and be "off". Rather than all the colors just "disappearing"
on some sunny day.

The articles seem to think that red pigment is pretty
good. If that's the case, why can't we have red cars
where the color stays good for the life of the car ?
The "red" used in paints isn't very good.

Paul

In article , Jim H
wrote:

On Mon, 01 Oct 2018 23:56:05 +0100, in
, "Jimmy Wilkinson Knife"
wrote:
...


As for the all the rest that you started out with... I've never heard
anything like it. You were either exaggerating or the printer you have
is a lemon. Plus a good healthy dose of not knowing how printer
settings work. Switching to a laser won't help even one little bit
with the latter... and might even make it worse.

this.

On Mon, 01 Oct 2018 22:06:46 -0400, Paul
wrote:

Paul wrote:
Char Jackson wrote:
On Tue, 02 Oct 2018 09:38:41 +1000, Peter Jason wrote:

By the way, are laser toners light fast? I have
been downloading a few artworks & either printing
them out on my laser color printer (FujiXerox
CP405d) or printing the A3 version in the local
computer shop.
The quality of the FujiXerox is very good, though
the long-lasting cartridges cost about $440.

I have no idea. Hopefully, someone else will chime in.


I don't see the words "archival print quality" in
the article on toner. Black toner used to be made from
carbon particles, and that material should hold up well.
Something made from colored plastic or wax, not so much.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toner

Paul

Actually, the Wired article will give you
the names of some colored stuff.

https://www.wired.com/2015/03/whats-...printer-toner/

Carbon Black

Pigment Yellow 180 benzimidazolone

Pigment Red 122 2,9-dimethyl-quinacridone

Pigment Blue 15:3 Copper phthalocyanine

Then, if you toss the "end-word" of those into a Google
search, you can get more info. Those compounds are used
in inkjet inks. You would need to find a similar paper
on toner, to prove the compounds are actually in toner.

http://www.cabotcorp.com/~/media/fil...for-inkjet.pdf

The important takeaway from that PDF, is
that the lightfastness varies greatly. It means of
the toner colors in a print, one color might outlast
some of the others. The print will fade in one color,
and be "off". Rather than all the colors just "disappearing"
on some sunny day.

The articles seem to think that red pigment is pretty
good. If that's the case, why can't we have red cars
where the color stays good for the life of the car ?
The "red" used in paints isn't very good.

Paul

I'm going to print two pictures of one subject and
leave one in the sun & the others indoors.
I'll report back.

It would be interesting to know what they print
money with.
Beware of polymer notes because the print layer
can come off in the wash.

On 10/2/2018 12:08 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Mon, 01 Oct 2018 07:55:55 +0100, Martin Edwards
wrote:

On 9/30/2018 7:00 PM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Sun, 30 Sep 2018 18:41:29 +0100, nospam
wrote:

In article , Jimmy Wilkinson
Knife wrote:

Why is it, that in the 21st century, printers never do what you
tell them
to?* They forget you want landscape, they forget the number of
copies,
they refuse to cancel a job you've sent, they try to use colour
ink for a
black and white image and take 5 times longer, they can't feed a
piece of
paper without jamming it, the nozzles clog up every five minutes,
the ink
cartridges are stupidly small, and they **** about for ten minutes
doing
god knows what, spinning the roller and moving the cartridge
back and
forth for no reason before they get to work!

oh !* user error

How is any of that user error?

because it doesn't happen to just about everyone else.

I don't know anyone who hasn't been annoyed 50% of the time they use
their printer.

settings are saved between jobs,

Well they try to.* Then you get stupid things like 100 copies of
document x means you must want 100 copies of document y.

And cancelling a job is almost impossible, you have to turn off the
printer, tell the computer to cancel it, then for some reason wait 5
minutes?!

ink use is whatever the user chooses,

Really?* So I can just insert a sensible sized tank into my inkjet
can I?

there is no delay in printing, and paper jams are *very* rare, usually
the fault of improperly loading the tray.

All printers are **** at loading paper, mind you it's pretty hard to
pick up one sheet with your fingers without licking them.

My loader is upright.* At first it did not work because I shoved the
paper in too far.* I learned to just drop it in, but chck that it had
made contact.

I thought that was obvious.

I daresay it was, but I'm not very practical.

Peter Jason wrote:
On Mon, 01 Oct 2018 22:06:46 -0400, Paul
wrote:

Paul wrote:
Char Jackson wrote:
On Tue, 02 Oct 2018 09:38:41 +1000, Peter Jason wrote:

By the way, are laser toners light fast? I have
been downloading a few artworks & either printing
them out on my laser color printer (FujiXerox
CP405d) or printing the A3 version in the local
computer shop.
The quality of the FujiXerox is very good, though
the long-lasting cartridges cost about $440.
I have no idea. Hopefully, someone else will chime in.

I don't see the words "archival print quality" in
the article on toner. Black toner used to be made from
carbon particles, and that material should hold up well.
Something made from colored plastic or wax, not so much.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toner

Paul
Actually, the Wired article will give you
the names of some colored stuff.

https://www.wired.com/2015/03/whats-...printer-toner/

Carbon Black

Pigment Yellow 180 benzimidazolone

Pigment Red 122 2,9-dimethyl-quinacridone

Pigment Blue 15:3 Copper phthalocyanine

Then, if you toss the "end-word" of those into a Google
search, you can get more info. Those compounds are used
in inkjet inks. You would need to find a similar paper
on toner, to prove the compounds are actually in toner.

http://www.cabotcorp.com/~/media/fil...for-inkjet.pdf

The important takeaway from that PDF, is
that the lightfastness varies greatly. It means of
the toner colors in a print, one color might outlast
some of the others. The print will fade in one color,
and be "off". Rather than all the colors just "disappearing"
on some sunny day.

The articles seem to think that red pigment is pretty
good. If that's the case, why can't we have red cars
where the color stays good for the life of the car ?
The "red" used in paints isn't very good.

Paul

I'm going to print two pictures of one subject and
leave one in the sun & the others indoors.
I'll report back.

It would be interesting to know what they print
money with.
Beware of polymer notes because the print layer
can come off in the wash.

They're printed on a really bad inkjet.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...otes_faces.png

The hard part is scraping the word "Specimen" off each one.

Paul

On 10/01/2018 04:17 PM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:

[snip]

Most people have many uses for a printer and need it done now, not the
next day.

Many people seem to think of cost only in money. I'm aware of how much
time my inkjet spends cleaning the printheads rather than the printing I
wanted. Also, now I've got a (Epson) inkjet printer that will not print
black (it prints the other colors OK), even with a new cartridge.

--
84 days until the winter celebration (Tue Dec 25, 2018 12:00:00 AM for 1
day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"An eartly kingdom cannot exist without inequality of persons. Some must
be free, some serfs, some rulers, some subjects." [Martin Luther]

On 10/01/2018 04:18 PM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:

[snip]

No, because you can't buy cheaper toner.* Toner is inherently expensive,
even if you refill them yourself.

I tried some "low cost" cartridges in my printer. They were NOT "low
cost", considering that they leaked toner messing up every page.

BTW, that printer is OK once I cleaned it thoroughly and put in good
cartridges.

--
84 days until the winter celebration (Tue Dec 25, 2018 12:00:00 AM for 1
day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"An earthly kingdom cannot exist without inequality of persons. Some must
be free, some serfs, some rulers, some subjects." [Martin Luther]

On 10/01/2018 05:56 PM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:

[snip]

I replaced my last Epson with a 2nd hand one so I could keep the same
ink system.

I'll consider that, maybe there'll be one on eBay. I've done that before.

--
84 days until the winter celebration (Tue Dec 25, 2018 12:00:00 AM for 1
day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"An eartly kingdom cannot exist without inequality of persons. Some must
be free, some serfs, some rulers, some subjects." [Martin Luther]

On 10/01/2018 10:00 AM, nospam wrote:
In article , Mark Lloyd
wrote:

Buying almost any laser printer is the better choice.

not necessarily. for photos, it's a much worse choice.

My current Brother laser printer won't print photos on glossy paper, but
it does a decent job on plain paper.

it's not as good as what an inkjet can do, even if it's not a photo
quality inkjet printer.

Not as good. I often find it to be good enough, and preferable to
multiple "head cleaning" cycles (sometimes requiring a new ink cartridge
or two) on an inkjet.

--
84 days until the winter celebration (Tue Dec 25, 2018 12:00:00 AM for 1
day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"An eartly kingdom cannot exist without inequality of persons. Some must
be free, some serfs, some rulers, some subjects." [Martin Luther]

On 10/01/2018 05:55 PM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:

[snip]

Trouble is inkjets like to make stripes.

They do. Sometimes that can be fixed by wasting ink (cleaning cycles,
usually more than one).

--
84 days until the winter celebration (Tue Dec 25, 2018 12:00:00 AM for 1
day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"An earthly kingdom cannot exist without inequality of persons. Some must
be free, some serfs, some rulers, some subjects." [Martin Luther]

On 10/01/2018 11:57 AM, Apd wrote:

[snip]

I don't own an inkjet but have seen many cases where the ink runs on a
print if it gets wet. Are models available where the ink is permanent?

I don't know how well it works, but I have seem some Epson printers that
have what looks like white ink (in addition to the usual 4 colors). It's
not ink but something that's supposed to seal the printouts to keep
water out.

[snip]

--
84 days until the winter celebration (Tue Dec 25, 2018 12:00:00 AM for 1
day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"An earthly kingdom cannot exist without inequality of persons. Some
must be free, some serfs, some rulers, some subjects." [Martin Luther]

On 10/01/2018 02:05 PM, nospam wrote:

[snip]

even then, since the mail will be in a mailbox and not sitting outside
in the rain.

Here, the mail carrier often leaves the mailbox open.


or try using an envelope.

Paper isn't very good at stopping water. It soaks through, and also
becomes weak when wet.

--
84 days until the winter celebration (Tue Dec 25, 2018 12:00:00 AM for 1
day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"An earthly kingdom cannot exist without inequality of persons. Some must
be free, some serfs, some rulers, some subjects." [Martin Luther]

On Tue, 02 Oct 2018 19:04:57 +0100, Mark Lloyd wrote:

On 10/01/2018 02:05 PM, nospam wrote:

[snip]

even then, since the mail will be in a mailbox and not sitting outside
in the rain.

Here, the mail carrier often leaves the mailbox open.

In civilised countries, the letterbox is in the front door, the mail goes inside the house.

or try using an envelope.

Paper isn't very good at stopping water. It soaks through, and also
becomes weak when wet.

If you use China clay it's ok.

On Tue, 02 Oct 2018 19:02:40 +0100, Mark Lloyd wrote:

On 10/01/2018 11:57 AM, Apd wrote:

[snip]

I don't own an inkjet but have seen many cases where the ink runs on a
print if it gets wet. Are models available where the ink is permanent?

I don't know how well it works, but I have seem some Epson printers that
have what looks like white ink (in addition to the usual 4 colors). It's
not ink but something that's supposed to seal the printouts to keep
water out.

Surely they just need to make the inks spirit based instead of water based, of course that would require better sealing when not in use or they'd dry out quicker.