O.T. Mrimg backups, clones, restore images step by step (Paul)

Should I remove the HD and try it in
the Startech case?


Robert

Mark Twain wrote:
Should I remove the HD and try it in
the Startech case?


Robert

You should remove it and try it inside the PC.

Then go to Disk Management and see if a second
drive appears there.

The 8500 probably needs a tray for the second
drive, which you are likely to have on hand.

If a screw doesn't fit, find out why! You're not
supposed to over-torque those screws. You can easily
strip the threads on the drive. If the wrong screw went
into one of those holes, it would bind.

You even have to be careful to not use screws which
are too long. Because they bottom out before the head
tightens down. And feel like they're binding.

Paul

It is inside the computer.

I used screws I had left over
and they don't feel like they
are binding.

So should I take it out and try
it in the Startech case?

Also you recommended cloning from
WD Mrimg backup HD (with a 8500 OS)
as it would have more space available.

So I would have to connect that to
the 8500 as well via USB.

Thoughts/Suggestions?

Robert

Mark Twain wrote:
It is inside the computer.

I used screws I had left over
and they don't feel like they
are binding.

So should I take it out and try
it in the Startech case?

Also you recommended cloning from
WD Mrimg backup HD (with a 8500 OS)
as it would have more space available.

So I would have to connect that to
the 8500 as well via USB.

Thoughts/Suggestions?

Robert

You've cabled up both the SATA power (15 pin)
and SATA data (7 pin) ?

When the machine boots, you should see the
two drives at BIOS level. Usually there's a BIOS
setup screen, where you can select which hard drive
is first for boot consideration, which is second
and so on.

If the drive is alive, you should see it
at BIOS level.

You can also check while you're there, that
a SATA port hasn't been disabled.

You've probably had two drives inside the
8500 before, so all of this should be working.

The reason I don't like an enclosure for your
first test, is it can "hide stuff". Still, if
you cannot make any progress with it inside the
computer case, then you'll have to use some
enclosure to test.

*******

The document I have here is

xps-8500_Owner's Manual_en-us.pdf

and in System Setup chapter (PDF page 119 in mine)
it says:

"During POST, when the DELL logo is displayed,
watch for the F2 prompt to appear and then
press F2 immediately."

And you had some keyboard problem, and perhaps had
to use the keyboard from the 780 to get into the BIOS ?

In the table of various BIOS settings, the XPS8500 has
four of six ports showing, one word here could be the
silk screen value, the other (on the right) is the
electrical port on the PCH (Southbridge).

SATA Information

SATA 0/Port 0
SATA 1/Port 5
SATA 2/Port 2
SATA 3/Port 3

And you should be seeing the hard drive model numbers
of two hard drives (the normal boot drive and the new
drive DM001 you got).

Sometimes, a SATA port has a "disable" option, but it
normally isn't recommended to turn off the port, as the
protection the switch offers isn't reliable (Linux can
undo the setting for itself). So it's not a control
of iron-clad reputation.

Normally, a disk would appear first as a "message at boot
up, that Windows had installed a driver". That's one source
of proof you'd see when Windows boots.

Second, when you enter Disk Management, there can be a "new row"
where the drive has just shown up. Disk Management should prompt
to write a signature into the MBR. Then, you can click in the
Unallocated area and define a partition for an initial test.

The advantage of doing this inside the PC, is you have the
best odds of detection in there. Plenty of DC power for the
drive. And no USB enclosure chip to hide the status of the drive.

Nothing prevents you from using your enclosure of course.
But I'd prefer the PC give some indication it's alive first.
Do whatever you have to, to prove it's not a dud :-)

There are two PC screws which are close in size, but have
different thread pitch. If you have to, remove (partially)
a screw on the regular boot drive, just to see and confirm
the type of the working one.

Paul

There was only one cable,..(SATA 15 pin) I checked for
the smaller blue cable (SATA7 pin) but I couldn't find
anything.

It must be there somewhere so I'll open it up again
and see if I can find it. Then we'll see what happens
when I boot.

Thanks,
Robert

Mark Twain wrote:
There was only one cable,..(SATA 15 pin) I checked for
the smaller blue cable (SATA7 pin) but I couldn't find
anything.

It must be there somewhere so I'll open it up again
and see if I can find it. Then we'll see what happens
when I boot.

Thanks,
Robert


If your 780 has a spare cable hanging down inside for
the 7 pin one, you could use that.

If you wanted to get one at a local computer store,
take the existing one with you so the staff at the
store can match it. The cable details include:

1) Length - half a meter or one meter
- if you get one which is too long, dealing
with the slack is a damn nuisance.

2) Ends - can be straight, left-angle, right-angle
- ends on cable can be mixed, like a straight
connector on one end, and angular one for the
drive. The angular ones are good for drives
where the computer cover would bang into the
end of the cable, unless it was "flat". For
example, I use right-angle ones for my Sonata
case, as a cable with straight connectors on both
ends, I'd be crushing the bent cable when closing
the enclosure door. I can use straight to straight
connectors for SSDs that lay loose on the bottom
of the computer case.

The orientation of some motherboard connectors
can also cause a problem. Like maybe the upper
motherboard SATA needs a left-angle, and the lower
one can be straight.

It's easier if you have a cable that works perfectly,
you take it to the store and say "gimme one of these",
as that takes a lot of variables out of the equation.

It's possible the way your drives are secured in the
enclosure, cable selection is less of an issue (the
cover might not be near enough to the drive interface,
to crush anything).

Paul

This has gotten very involved for what I thought
was going to be simple.

There is no second 7 pin cable inside the 8500
but appears they have slots for them.

http://i63.tinypic.com/72t069.jpg

http://i68.tinypic.com/1zba3ur.jpg

Since it has no second 7 pin cable I removed
the HD and put it in the Startech case but
the 8500 doesn't recognize it. I heard the
blip sound when I connected it but no pop-ups
or icon for USB connection so I can safely
remove it(I'll do it when I restart).

I don't know if the 780 has a spare 7 pin or
not. Sure seems like allot of work to clone a
HD and I don't remember us doing this for the
previous clone backup.

However why won't it work with the Startech
case? Do you think the case is bad or did I
mess up 2 HD's?

The only 'computer store' around is Radio Shack
and I'm not sure if they are even still there.

Robert

Mark Twain wrote:
This has gotten very involved for what I thought
was going to be simple.

There is no second 7 pin cable inside the 8500
but appears they have slots for them.

http://i63.tinypic.com/72t069.jpg

http://i68.tinypic.com/1zba3ur.jpg

Since it has no second 7 pin cable I removed
the HD and put it in the Startech case but
the 8500 doesn't recognize it. I heard the
blip sound when I connected it but no pop-ups
or icon for USB connection so I can safely
remove it(I'll do it when I restart).

I don't know if the 780 has a spare 7 pin or
not. Sure seems like allot of work to clone a
HD and I don't remember us doing this for the
previous clone backup.

However why won't it work with the Startech
case? Do you think the case is bad or did I
mess up 2 HD's?

The only 'computer store' around is Radio Shack
and I'm not sure if they are even still there.

Robert

Are there any signs the drive is used stock ?

Or does it look brand new ?

I thought at some point, you've had two drives
inside the computer case. Didn't you buy a tray
at one point, to install a drive in one of the
machines ?

*******

In your first picture, I see an optical drive with
an orange SATA data cable. And I see a blue SATA
cable for one hard drive. There seems to be a second
hard drive (judging by the two SATA port connectors
I can see), but the second drive doesn't appear
to have a data cable.

The orange cable looks to be straight on both ends.
While the blue one has an angled connector for the drive
end.

It looks like "borrowing" the optical drive data
connector, would be easier said than done (there's
a lot of wires on top of it). Perhaps picking up a
cable which is straight on both ends would work
for the second hard drive I cannot see.

And your second picture confirms there are two spare
SATA ports, and a straight end would work with either
of those. And as near as I can tell, a straight cable
end might work for the drive end as well.

There's got to be a spare cable around your
place somewhere :-) Check under the sofa cushions :-)

Paul

Well it came in an anti-static bag with
sealed sticker,. I assume it's new not
refurbished. It looks new to me.

I think you may be referring to when I
had to get trays for the 780 because the
one it had was broke and I added a spare
tray just to make it complete. They're
actually pretty good.

I checked the 780 and there's only the one
cable.

http://i65.tinypic.com/2zdvr14.jpg

I also checked the 8200:

http://i66.tinypic.com/5n9ac9.jpg


So it looks like my only option is to use
the one in the 780 although I really hate to
pull it.

It still doesn't explain why the computer
didn't recognize the HD in the Startech case.
It should have,.... before I started pulling
cables.

Also, you said I was to clone from the WD HD
because it will gain me more HD space. I'm
leery of putting the WD HD into the 8500 for
that when we can't even get the new HD in
the Startech case to work.

and to get a new cable if I can find a store
I have to remove the cable from the 8500 and
I'm leery about doing that.

Robert

Mark Twain wrote:
Well it came in an anti-static bag with
sealed sticker,. I assume it's new not
refurbished. It looks new to me.

I think you may be referring to when I
had to get trays for the 780 because the
one it had was broke and I added a spare
tray just to make it complete. They're
actually pretty good.

I checked the 780 and there's only the one
cable.

http://i65.tinypic.com/2zdvr14.jpg

I also checked the 8200:

http://i66.tinypic.com/5n9ac9.jpg


So it looks like my only option is to use
the one in the 780 although I really hate to
pull it.

It still doesn't explain why the computer
didn't recognize the HD in the Startech case.
It should have,.... before I started pulling
cables.

Also, you said I was to clone from the WD HD
because it will gain me more HD space. I'm
leery of putting the WD HD into the 8500 for
that when we can't even get the new HD in
the Startech case to work.

and to get a new cable if I can find a store
I have to remove the cable from the 8500 and
I'm leery about doing that.

Robert

Look carefully at the 8500 and convince yourself
a straight-to-straight cable is all you need. Measure
the length, to find a close size.

*******

Your first picture shows a computer with two cables.
One cable to the HDD area, and one cable to the DVD drive.

Those cables are probably also different lengths.
You'd have to measure them.

The orange cable is straight-to-straight, and
might be the right length for the other machine.

And of course the 8200 is IDE and doesn't have SATA.
It had a RDRAM chipset, from quite a while ago.

Paul

I was thinking of doing just that... using
the cable from the 780 for the 8500. I'll
check and see if it works.

Robert

Success!

http://i65.tinypic.com/i1ljti.jpg

http://i64.tinypic.com/1zggcpd.jpg

http://i63.tinypic.com/2hfukow.jpg

Too tired to start cloning tonight,
but will let you know how it goes.

Thanks,
Robert

I also started the 780 to see how it would
run without the cable. It did detect the
missing cable but powered up normally after
that. I'm at the desktop and everything
looks OK.

Robert

Mark Twain wrote:
I also started the 780 to see how it would
run without the cable. It did detect the
missing cable but powered up normally after
that. I'm at the desktop and everything
looks OK.

Robert

That's good progress :-)

You still need to get enough testing done on the
drive, to convince yourself it's fully functional.

After your cloning is finished, you could try out
HDTune if you have a copy. And run the benchmark
curve. The benchmark on the free version of
HDTune (which turns ten years old this year),
is read-only and doesn't affect the data.

Paul

I made slideshows out of your instructions, they
work great and your instructions make it simple.

Clone was successful; I ran a HDTune afterwards
as you suggested:

http://i63.tinypic.com/144b6gp.jpg

http://i68.tinypic.com/6716bc.jpg

http://i68.tinypic.com/ajukxj.jpg

If I put the drive back in the Startech case it
should detect it now, correct?

Thanks,
Robert