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Kaspersky & backup



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 2nd 18, 02:59 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
KenK
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 444
Default Kaspersky & backup


Yesterday I backed up my C drive and system state. In the report afterward
it told me that several dozen files had been in use by another spplication
and were not backed up. I didn't look at them all but those I looked at
were Kaspersky Internet Security files. Evidently it decided to update its
database while the backup was running. This is the first time this has
happened. I'm debating on whether to run the backup again. What do you
think? I think it's not necessary. I backup the first of every month.

Using XP Home.

TIA

--
I love a good meal! That's why I don't cook.






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  #2  
Old June 2nd 18, 06:40 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default Kaspersky & backup

KenK wrote:
Yesterday I backed up my C drive and system state. In the report afterward
it told me that several dozen files had been in use by another spplication
and were not backed up. I didn't look at them all but those I looked at
were Kaspersky Internet Security files. Evidently it decided to update its
database while the backup was running. This is the first time this has
happened. I'm debating on whether to run the backup again. What do you
think? I think it's not necessary. I backup the first of every month.

Using XP Home.

TIA


You can boot the backup software from its emergency CD and
do the backup from there. Then, the OS files should all
be available for backup.

*******

An alternative next month, is to:

1) Unplug network cable.
2) Reboot machine.
3) Run backup (to external USB).

The idea in that case being, less can be going on, if the network
is cut.

Obviously this won't be a very convenient option if you use
a NAS for backups. You could pull the WAN cable, leaving
the LAN working, and that way, Kaspersky won't be doing an
update.

*******

As to whether to re-run the backup, I like my backups "clean",
so I'd rerun it (who knows what happens to Kaspersky if it is
caught in an inconsistent state).

I like to keep the quantity of files on C: to a small
number, so backup time won't be an issue for C: . If I had
a movie collection, I'd keep it on D: and potentially back
it up with a different frequency than C: .

The average backup time for a C: here, is around 10 minutes.
To back up the machine I'm typing on (all the data partitions),
that would take all day. So naturally that doesn't happen
quite as often.

In terms of ratio of "partitions to containers", I try to back up
one partition per output container, so that if there is a problem
with the backup (bad CRC), then only that partition is damaged.
So I don't, say, back up all the partitions into one giant image.
Because during restoration, there might be an error in the backup
that prevents access to a certain partition of the set. If I have
12 partitions, then I have 12 files for the month of June (kept
in the same folder).

On Vista+, where there is a system partition and a boot partition
(the labels you see in Disk Management), I would tend to put those
two into the same container, as a "complete set" for boot purposes.
Usually, one of those two partitions is tiny, and not fit to be
managed alone without its partner for company. I try to assign a
descriptive label to C: , such as "WIN10RLS" so I will know
later, what machine that belongs to. The Win10 that doesn't
get used much on this machine, would be "WIN10P5E" named
after the motherboard.

Paul
  #3  
Old June 5th 18, 07:08 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
KenK
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 444
Default Kaspersky & backup

Paul wrote in news
KenK wrote:
Yesterday I backed up my C drive and system state. In the report
afterward it told me that several dozen files had been in use by
another spplication and were not backed up. I didn't look at them all
but those I looked at were Kaspersky Internet Security files.
Evidently it decided to update its database while the backup was
running. This is the first time this has happened. I'm debating on
whether to run the backup again. What do you think? I think it's not
necessary. I backup the first of every month.

Using XP Home.

TIA


You can boot the backup software from its emergency CD and
do the backup from there. Then, the OS files should all
be available for backup.

*******

An alternative next month, is to:

1) Unplug network cable.
2) Reboot machine.
3) Run backup (to external USB).

The idea in that case being, less can be going on, if the network
is cut.

Obviously this won't be a very convenient option if you use
a NAS for backups. You could pull the WAN cable, leaving
the LAN working, and that way, Kaspersky won't be doing an
update.


I use NTBACKUP, which comes with XP. Had to restore once and it worked
fine.

Something in these changes caused a problem. Kept getting backup ap errors
I didn't understand and no matter what choice I chose they kept returning.

Need to find a way to stop Kaspersky from interferring with the backup
without disconnecting the internet connection.

*******

As to whether to re-run the backup, I like my backups "clean",
so I'd rerun it (who knows what happens to Kaspersky if it is
caught in an inconsistent state).


I finally got the backup to run and it seemed to go well. As usual, no
verify or other errors.

I like to keep the quantity of files on C: to a small
number, so backup time won't be an issue for C: . If I had
a movie collection, I'd keep it on D: and potentially back
it up with a different frequency than C: .

The average backup time for a C: here, is around 10 minutes.
To back up the machine I'm typing on (all the data partitions),
that would take all day. So naturally that doesn't happen
quite as often.


Takes me about 1 1/2 hours.

In terms of ratio of "partitions to containers", I try to back up
one partition per output container, so that if there is a problem
with the backup (bad CRC), then only that partition is damaged.
So I don't, say, back up all the partitions into one giant image.
Because during restoration, there might be an error in the backup
that prevents access to a certain partition of the set. If I have
12 partitions, then I have 12 files for the month of June (kept
in the same folder).

On Vista+, where there is a system partition and a boot partition
(the labels you see in Disk Management), I would tend to put those
two into the same container, as a "complete set" for boot purposes.
Usually, one of those two partitions is tiny, and not fit to be
managed alone without its partner for company. I try to assign a
descriptive label to C: , such as "WIN10RLS" so I will know
later, what machine that belongs to. The Win10 that doesn't
get used much on this machine, would be "WIN10P5E" named
after the motherboard.

Paul




--
I love a good meal! That's why I don't cook.






  #4  
Old June 6th 18, 12:40 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default Kaspersky & backup

KenK wrote:


I use NTBACKUP, which comes with XP. Had to restore once and it worked
fine.

Something in these changes caused a problem. Kept getting backup ap errors
I didn't understand and no matter what choice I chose they kept returning.

Need to find a way to stop Kaspersky from interferring with the backup
without disconnecting the internet connection.

I finally got the backup to run and it seemed to go well. As usual, no
verify or other errors.

Takes me about 1 1/2 hours.


As far as I know, NTBACKUP uses VSS like modern backup programs do.
Kaspersky could listen to the "quiesce" request if they wanted to,
and VSS gives programs ten seconds to put themselves in safe,
consistent states for a shadow copy to be prepared. This basically
means Kaspersky has to be designed to be "compatible" with VSS.
Once the shadow copy is frozen, Kaspersky can pick right up where
it left off, as if nothing happened.

*******

You can actually run NTBACKUP offline. Using BartPE, you can make
a CD using WinXP installer files. Somebody made a plugin for BartPE with
NTBACKUP version 5 files in it. You can then boot the BartPE disc,
and start an NTBACKUP from there. And the OS will be backed up,
without Kaspersky or other programs being able to interfere.

My records show this as a possible source (I grabbed this around 2011 or so).

nt5backup.cab stsanford_com_bartpe

Here's an example of an ntbackup running from the BartPE CD.

https://s15.postimg.cc/ea3fw1g1n/bartpe_ntbackup5.gif

I was able to delete C: , then restore from the backup.
And C: booted.

The only thing a bit screwy about ntbackup, seems to be
the file folder dates are stamped with the current date,
rather than their original dates.

The BartPE doesn't actually support VSS, so you have to
tick the box in the custom backup in NTBackup to disable
VSS. And then the CD-based offline backup works fine.
Such as it is. (Because it's being done from the CD, a
program like Kaspersky couldn't get in the way.) None of the
files on C: can be busy at that point, because C: isn't running.
That's why VSS isn't needed and a fallback method
can be used.

Having the folder dates screwed up, would annoy me,
so I wouldn't be using that method. I can see why it happens
though, with a more-or-less file-by-file approach. The
interface doesn't hint at a "cluster level" backup and
restore. A person designing a file by file program, has
to take extra care to correct the dates after a file/folder
is restored. Most likely, this is a side effect of VSS not
being available in BartPE, and then the less preferred copy
method didn't have the work put into it.

*******

My WinXP here is on a FAT32 partition, and I can make
a backup clone copy with nothing more than Robocopy XP026.
But, I need to run the backup from a second OS partition,
so that C: is quiescent. All the dates are OK on those.
Robocopy is a Microsoft utility you download. Robocopy is
a "built-in" on modern Windows OSes, Windows 10 included.

Paul
 




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