Next version of Windows is...

On 10/3/2014 11:18 AM, Ken Blake, MVP wrote:
On Fri, 03 Oct 2014 10:35:23 -0400, Silver Slimer
wrote:

On 14-10-02 02:04 PM, Ken Blake, MVP wrote:
On Thu, 02 Oct 2014 09:13:15 -0400, Ron wrote:

On 10/2/2014 3:43 AM, Roderick Stewart wrote:

I've owned laptops for about 10 years and none of those things have
happened. Especially *spilling* something on it. Why in the world would
you spill something on a laptop or even desktop keyboard for that matter?

I've owned cars for about 55 years, and an accident has never
happened. Why in the world should I always wear a seatbelt when I
drive?

Because tomorrow might be the day that you finally have an accident.



LOL! Thanks for telling me the same thing I said. The only difference
is that I said it in a slightly more subtle way


Don't have drinks near your keyboard. Simple.

On 10/03/2014 08:16 PM, Ron wrote:
On 10/3/2014 11:37 AM, Caver1 wrote:
On 10/01/2014 09:27 PM, Ron wrote:
On 10/1/2014 10:35 AM, Ken Springer wrote:
On 10/1/14 7:31 AM, Don Phillipson wrote:
"John Doe" wrote in message
...
"Don Phillipson" wrote:

"John Doe" wrote

Microsoft needs to stop trying to harness the ultraportable PC
business and start innovating in the desktop PC business.

Retailers do not nowadays sell enough new desktops to constitute
a market big enough to attract MS.

From what I can see, looks like they sell approximately the same
number as always.

All local indicators suggest laptops far outsell desktops nowadays
(not to mention also tablets.)

Just a thought on my part, but with the increasing size and power of
laptops, perhaps laptops and desktops should be lumped together for a
conversation like this. And to me, the Surface seems to be moving
towards being more of a laptop than a tablet.

MS is really pushing the Surface. It has been used on Hawaii Five-0 for
the past 3 seasons. It's being used on another TV that I watch but can't
recall which one. There were ad banners for it in one of the NFL games I
watched this past weekend. And last week NASCAR announced they were
going to start using them for their inspection process.



MS has lost nearly $2 billion on the Surface since it has been on the
market. MS is hoping to turn that loss into aleast a break even.


Last night I was watching Thursday Night Football and there were ad
banners for the Surface Pro at Lambeau Field.


Only paid attention to the game.

--
Caver1

On Fri, 03 Oct 2014 20:19:00 -0400, Ron wrote:

On 10/3/2014 11:18 AM, Ken Blake, MVP wrote:
On Fri, 03 Oct 2014 10:35:23 -0400, Silver Slimer
wrote:

On 14-10-02 02:04 PM, Ken Blake, MVP wrote:
On Thu, 02 Oct 2014 09:13:15 -0400, Ron wrote:

On 10/2/2014 3:43 AM, Roderick Stewart wrote:

I've owned laptops for about 10 years and none of those things have
happened. Especially *spilling* something on it. Why in the world would
you spill something on a laptop or even desktop keyboard for that matter?

I've owned cars for about 55 years, and an accident has never
happened. Why in the world should I always wear a seatbelt when I
drive?

Because tomorrow might be the day that you finally have an accident.



LOL! Thanks for telling me the same thing I said. The only difference
is that I said it in a slightly more subtle way


Don't have drinks near your keyboard. Simple.


Simple? Yes, very simple. But although many people know that they
shouldn't, many people do. Most people in offices spend most of their
days in front of their keyboard, and going without coffee (or whatever
they drink) for so long is very hard.

And personally, although I don't spend most of my day here, I do spend
several hours a day here, and I always have my drink (iced tea) next
to my keyboard. I'm well aware of the danger, but I'm also aware of
the very low cost of a new keyboard should it be necessary to replace
it, so I don't worry about it.

And I always keep a spare keyboard around, just in case.

On Sat, 04 Oct 2014 07:12:51 -0700, "Ken Blake, MVP"
wrote:

On Fri, 03 Oct 2014 20:19:00 -0400, Ron wrote:

On 10/3/2014 11:18 AM, Ken Blake, MVP wrote:
On Fri, 03 Oct 2014 10:35:23 -0400, Silver Slimer
wrote:

On 14-10-02 02:04 PM, Ken Blake, MVP wrote:
On Thu, 02 Oct 2014 09:13:15 -0400, Ron wrote:

On 10/2/2014 3:43 AM, Roderick Stewart wrote:

I've owned laptops for about 10 years and none of those things have
happened. Especially *spilling* something on it. Why in the world would
you spill something on a laptop or even desktop keyboard for that matter?

I've owned cars for about 55 years, and an accident has never
happened. Why in the world should I always wear a seatbelt when I
drive?

Because tomorrow might be the day that you finally have an accident.



LOL! Thanks for telling me the same thing I said. The only difference
is that I said it in a slightly more subtle way


Don't have drinks near your keyboard. Simple.


Simple? Yes, very simple. But although many people know that they
shouldn't, many people do. Most people in offices spend most of their
days in front of their keyboard, and going without coffee (or whatever
they drink) for so long is very hard.

And personally, although I don't spend most of my day here, I do spend
several hours a day here, and I always have my drink (iced tea) next
to my keyboard. I'm well aware of the danger, but I'm also aware of
the very low cost of a new keyboard should it be necessary to replace
it, so I don't worry about it.

And I always keep a spare keyboard around, just in case.


For anyone who can't get away from their keyboard to have a drink
there are waterproof keyboards available. They roll up as well. There
has been one in my cupboard for years but I don't like the feel of the
soft keys so I don't use it.

Amazon UK had one at £9.99 but they have been out of stock for months.
Steve

--
Neural Network Software http://www.npsnn.com
EasyNN-plus More than just a neural network http://www.easynn.com
SwingNN Prediction software http://www.swingnn.com
JustNN Just a neural network http://www.justnn.com

Caver1 wrote:
On 10/01/2014 09:27 PM, Ron wrote:
On 10/1/2014 10:35 AM, Ken Springer wrote:
On 10/1/14 7:31 AM, Don Phillipson wrote:
"John Doe" wrote in message
...
"Don Phillipson" wrote:

"John Doe" wrote

Microsoft needs to stop trying to harness the ultraportable PC
business and start innovating in the desktop PC business.

Retailers do not nowadays sell enough new desktops to constitute
a market big enough to attract MS.

From what I can see, looks like they sell approximately the same
number as always.

All local indicators suggest laptops far outsell desktops nowadays
(not to mention also tablets.)

Just a thought on my part, but with the increasing size and power of
laptops, perhaps laptops and desktops should be lumped together for
a conversation like this. And to me, the Surface seems to be
moving towards being more of a laptop than a tablet.

MS is really pushing the Surface. It has been used on Hawaii Five-0
for the past 3 seasons. It's being used on another TV that I watch
but can't recall which one. There were ad banners for it in one of
the NFL games I watched this past weekend. And last week NASCAR
announced they were going to start using them for their inspection
process.



MS has lost nearly $2 billion on the Surface since it has been on the
market. MS is hoping to turn that loss into aleast a break even.

Perhaps their vision is larger than that. The Surface introduced the idea of
a Windows-based tablet that offered features beyond those available from
iStuff and Androids. Now, Windows-based tablets are coming onto the market
at very low prices, for example the Winbooks that run from $99 for a 7"
basic tablet to $199 for a 10" full version. Something had to kick-start
that market, and since MS' main business is the software, once could see the
investment in the Surface as a marketing expense that will be recouped by
the sales of other products running Windows OS and software.

--
best regards,

Neil

On Sat, 04 Oct 2014 15:38:41 +0100, Stephen Wolstenholme
wrote:

On Sat, 04 Oct 2014 07:12:51 -0700, "Ken Blake, MVP"
wrote:

On Fri, 03 Oct 2014 20:19:00 -0400, Ron wrote:

On 10/3/2014 11:18 AM, Ken Blake, MVP wrote:
On Fri, 03 Oct 2014 10:35:23 -0400, Silver Slimer
wrote:

On 14-10-02 02:04 PM, Ken Blake, MVP wrote:
On Thu, 02 Oct 2014 09:13:15 -0400, Ron wrote:

On 10/2/2014 3:43 AM, Roderick Stewart wrote:

I've owned laptops for about 10 years and none of those things have
happened. Especially *spilling* something on it. Why in the world would
you spill something on a laptop or even desktop keyboard for that matter?

I've owned cars for about 55 years, and an accident has never
happened. Why in the world should I always wear a seatbelt when I
drive?

Because tomorrow might be the day that you finally have an accident.



LOL! Thanks for telling me the same thing I said. The only difference
is that I said it in a slightly more subtle way


Don't have drinks near your keyboard. Simple.


Simple? Yes, very simple. But although many people know that they
shouldn't, many people do. Most people in offices spend most of their
days in front of their keyboard, and going without coffee (or whatever
they drink) for so long is very hard.

And personally, although I don't spend most of my day here, I do spend
several hours a day here, and I always have my drink (iced tea) next
to my keyboard. I'm well aware of the danger, but I'm also aware of
the very low cost of a new keyboard should it be necessary to replace
it, so I don't worry about it.

And I always keep a spare keyboard around, just in case.


For anyone who can't get away from their keyboard to have a drink
there are waterproof keyboards available. They roll up as well. There
has been one in my cupboard for years but I don't like the feel of the
soft keys so I don't use it.


Yes, I know about them, but like you, I don't like them.

On 10/04/2014 10:54 AM, Neil Gould wrote:
Caver1 wrote:
On 10/01/2014 09:27 PM, Ron wrote:
On 10/1/2014 10:35 AM, Ken Springer wrote:
On 10/1/14 7:31 AM, Don Phillipson wrote:
"John Doe" wrote in message
...
"Don Phillipson" wrote:

"John Doe" wrote

Microsoft needs to stop trying to harness the ultraportable PC
business and start innovating in the desktop PC business.

Retailers do not nowadays sell enough new desktops to constitute
a market big enough to attract MS.

From what I can see, looks like they sell approximately the same
number as always.

All local indicators suggest laptops far outsell desktops nowadays
(not to mention also tablets.)

Just a thought on my part, but with the increasing size and power of
laptops, perhaps laptops and desktops should be lumped together for
a conversation like this. And to me, the Surface seems to be
moving towards being more of a laptop than a tablet.

MS is really pushing the Surface. It has been used on Hawaii Five-0
for the past 3 seasons. It's being used on another TV that I watch
but can't recall which one. There were ad banners for it in one of
the NFL games I watched this past weekend. And last week NASCAR
announced they were going to start using them for their inspection
process.



MS has lost nearly $2 billion on the Surface since it has been on the
market. MS is hoping to turn that loss into aleast a break even.

Perhaps their vision is larger than that. The Surface introduced the idea of
a Windows-based tablet that offered features beyond those available from
iStuff and Androids. Now, Windows-based tablets are coming onto the market
at very low prices, for example the Winbooks that run from $99 for a 7"
basic tablet to $199 for a 10" full version. Something had to kick-start
that market, and since MS' main business is the software, once could see the
investment in the Surface as a marketing expense that will be recouped by
the sales of other products running Windows OS and software.


Just like MS to sell at a loss to try to capture the market. Don't think
it will work this time.
My daughter paid $219 for a 10" Asus Android tablet. $199-$219 not a big
difference. She does her office work, manipulates images and more with
it without unlocking. Unlock it and you can install anything you want
and have complete control. Can't unlock Windows and have control.


--
Caver1

On 10/04/2014 10:02 AM, Wolf K wrote:
On 2014-10-04 7:40 AM, Caver1 wrote:
On 10/03/2014 08:16 PM, Ron wrote:
[...]
Last night I was watching Thursday Night Football and there were ad
banners for the Surface Pro at Lambeau Field.


Only paid attention to the game.

Conscious attention is probably less tan 10% of total attention.
Unconscious attention has slowly accumulating but long-lasting effects.
That's why advertising works, even on thsoe poepl who "never pay
attention to ads."

Relevant anecdote:
Back in the 70s, the Chicago Sociology Dept did a number of surveys to
find out what people paid attention to. One such asked people for two
facts: When is your commute, and what radio station do you listen to
while commuting? Then they played several current pop-songs, and asked
people whether they a) had heard the song before; and b) if heard
before, could name title/artist/etc. They correlated commute times and
radio station play lists. They found that on average, people heard a new
song fourteen times before they could recognise it as one they had heard
before. And well over two dozen times before they had learned
title/artist/etc.

I'm an exception. Never have learned more about music except what sounds
I like. I don't pay attention to ads except to laugh at them
sometimes. Never have based my purchases on them. Trail and error.

Addendum: When I reported this study to my senior English classes, the
students refused to believe it. Their subjective experience was "Wow,
what a neat song", and they couldn't accept that they probably heard it
several times before. Our subjective experience of "paying attention" is
highly misleading as a record of what we actually take in.

Have a good day,


I remember that study and the controversy it caused.

--
Caver1

On 10/04/2014 10:12 AM, Ken Blake, MVP wrote:
On Fri, 03 Oct 2014 20:19:00 -0400, Ron wrote:

On 10/3/2014 11:18 AM, Ken Blake, MVP wrote:
On Fri, 03 Oct 2014 10:35:23 -0400, Silver Slimer
wrote:

On 14-10-02 02:04 PM, Ken Blake, MVP wrote:
On Thu, 02 Oct 2014 09:13:15 -0400, Ron wrote:

On 10/2/2014 3:43 AM, Roderick Stewart wrote:

I've owned laptops for about 10 years and none of those things have
happened. Especially *spilling* something on it. Why in the world would
you spill something on a laptop or even desktop keyboard for that matter?

I've owned cars for about 55 years, and an accident has never
happened. Why in the world should I always wear a seatbelt when I
drive?

Because tomorrow might be the day that you finally have an accident.



LOL! Thanks for telling me the same thing I said. The only difference
is that I said it in a slightly more subtle way


Don't have drinks near your keyboard. Simple.


Simple? Yes, very simple. But although many people know that they
shouldn't, many people do. Most people in offices spend most of their
days in front of their keyboard, and going without coffee (or whatever
they drink) for so long is very hard.

And personally, although I don't spend most of my day here, I do spend
several hours a day here, and I always have my drink (iced tea) next
to my keyboard. I'm well aware of the danger, but I'm also aware of
the very low cost of a new keyboard should it be necessary to replace
it, so I don't worry about it.

And I always keep a spare keyboard around, just in case.



With most keyboards today all you have to do is take them apart and
clean the them after a spill. A pain but they still work, nothing to
short out.

--
Caver1

On 10/4/2014 10:12 AM, Ken Blake, MVP wrote:
On Fri, 03 Oct 2014 20:19:00 -0400, Ron wrote:

On 10/3/2014 11:18 AM, Ken Blake, MVP wrote:
On Fri, 03 Oct 2014 10:35:23 -0400, Silver Slimer
wrote:

On 14-10-02 02:04 PM, Ken Blake, MVP wrote:
On Thu, 02 Oct 2014 09:13:15 -0400, Ron wrote:

On 10/2/2014 3:43 AM, Roderick Stewart wrote:

I've owned laptops for about 10 years and none of those things have
happened. Especially *spilling* something on it. Why in the world would
you spill something on a laptop or even desktop keyboard for that matter?

I've owned cars for about 55 years, and an accident has never
happened. Why in the world should I always wear a seatbelt when I
drive?

Because tomorrow might be the day that you finally have an accident.



LOL! Thanks for telling me the same thing I said. The only difference
is that I said it in a slightly more subtle way


Don't have drinks near your keyboard. Simple.


Simple? Yes, very simple. But although many people know that they
shouldn't, many people do. Most people in offices spend most of their
days in front of their keyboard, and going without coffee (or whatever
they drink) for so long is very hard.

And personally, although I don't spend most of my day here, I do spend
several hours a day here, and I always have my drink (iced tea) next
to my keyboard. I'm well aware of the danger, but I'm also aware of
the very low cost of a new keyboard should it be necessary to replace
it, so I don't worry about it.

And I always keep a spare keyboard around, just in case.



Yeah, I use a cheap-o throwaway keyboard on my desktop also....but my
wife uses a very nice ergonomic keyboard at work. I don't think her
employer would appreciate her spilling drinks on it.

Walmart sells Bubba cups and mugs. They are almost spill proof and they
are double insulated. Cold stays cold and hot stays hot. Cold doesn't
sweat and hot doesn't transfer heat. I love those things.

http://www.bubbabrands.com/products/

In message , "Ken Blake,
MVP" writes
On Sat, 04 Oct 2014 15:38:41 +0100, Stephen Wolstenholme
wrote:


For anyone who can't get away from their keyboard to have a drink
there are waterproof keyboards available. They roll up as well. There
has been one in my cupboard for years but I don't like the feel of the
soft keys so I don't use it.


Yes, I know about them, but like you, I don't like them.

The Lenovo laptops that I mainly use have keyboard drains built in. I'm
not sure they are perfect, but the idea is good.

I have experience of someone spilling hot Lemsip into equipment
(actually a radio studio desk). We just managed to get the section out
and under a tap in the toilets before the printed circuit boards were
eaten through.
--
Bill

On Sat, 04 Oct 2014 12:24:12 -0400, Ron wrote:


Walmart sells Bubba cups and mugs. They are almost spill proof and they
are double insulated. Cold stays cold and hot stays hot. Cold doesn't
sweat and hot doesn't transfer heat. I love those things.



Thanks, I'll look for those the next tine I'm at Walmart.

On 10/4/2014 11:13 AM, Caver1 wrote:
On 10/04/2014 10:54 AM, Neil Gould wrote:
Caver1 wrote:
On 10/01/2014 09:27 PM, Ron wrote:
On 10/1/2014 10:35 AM, Ken Springer wrote:
On 10/1/14 7:31 AM, Don Phillipson wrote:
"John Doe" wrote in message
...
"Don Phillipson" wrote:

"John Doe" wrote

Microsoft needs to stop trying to harness the ultraportable PC
business and start innovating in the desktop PC business.

Retailers do not nowadays sell enough new desktops to constitute
a market big enough to attract MS.

From what I can see, looks like they sell approximately the same
number as always.

All local indicators suggest laptops far outsell desktops nowadays
(not to mention also tablets.)

Just a thought on my part, but with the increasing size and power of
laptops, perhaps laptops and desktops should be lumped together for
a conversation like this. And to me, the Surface seems to be
moving towards being more of a laptop than a tablet.

MS is really pushing the Surface. It has been used on Hawaii Five-0
for the past 3 seasons. It's being used on another TV that I watch
but can't recall which one. There were ad banners for it in one of
the NFL games I watched this past weekend. And last week NASCAR
announced they were going to start using them for their inspection
process.



MS has lost nearly $2 billion on the Surface since it has been on the
market. MS is hoping to turn that loss into aleast a break even.

Perhaps their vision is larger than that. The Surface introduced the
idea of
a Windows-based tablet that offered features beyond those available from
iStuff and Androids. Now, Windows-based tablets are coming onto the
market
at very low prices, for example the Winbooks that run from $99 for a 7"
basic tablet to $199 for a 10" full version. Something had to kick-start
that market, and since MS' main business is the software, once could
see the
investment in the Surface as a marketing expense that will be recouped by
the sales of other products running Windows OS and software.


Just like MS to sell at a loss to try to capture the market. Don't think
it will work this time.
My daughter paid $219 for a 10" Asus Android tablet. $199-$219 not a big
difference. She does her office work, manipulates images and more with
it without unlocking. Unlock it and you can install anything you want
and have complete control. Can't unlock Windows and have control.


The number of Windows users that have ever wanted to "unlock" the OS is
not worth caring about. For most Windows users the primary requirement
for those users is that they can get work done efficiently. Managing an
"unlocked" system is contrary to that requirement.

Although there are apps that have some of the functionality of MS
Office, I've not seen one that is a true competitor in any sense. The
time wasted trying to execute the same tasks that users have done for
years if not decades in MS Office drives them back to that suite in
short order.

In short, MS doesn't have to "capture market", they just don't have to
lose a lot of what they already have, and that isn't as big a task as it
might seem. Remember, MS is a primarily software company.

--
best regards,

Neil

On 2014-10-2 18:9, Silver Slimer wrote:
[]
Maybe the next version is called "Windows 10" to avoid confusion with
Windows 95 and 98.

No one mentioned that but it's a valid assumption.

Oh, it most certainly has been mentioned: apparently there's quite a lot
of code around that includes something like

if versionstring.startswith("Windows 9") then ...

which loads the version/fetches the webpage/whatever that's suitable for
95/98. (I've seen someone ask "do they really look at strings when the
version number is accessible", only for someone else to answer "yes they
do".)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

| Oh, it most certainly has been mentioned: apparently there's quite a lot
| of code around that includes something like
|
| if versionstring.startswith("Windows 9") then ...
|
| which loads the version/fetches the webpage/whatever that's suitable for
| 95/98. (I've seen someone ask "do they really look at strings when the
| version number is accessible", only for someone else to answer "yes they
| do".)

I saw the same theory mentioned on Slashdot, but
it seems *very* farfetched to me. First, it's unlikely
that anything running on Win10 would also run on
Win9x. Second, it wasn't Win9x in the first place as
far as version numbers go.

Platform 1:
Win95 v. 4.0
Win98 v. 4.1
WinME v. 4.9

Platform 2:
Win2000 v. 5.0
XP v. 5.1
Vista v. 6.0
Win7 v. 6.1
Win8 v. 6.3

When software checks the Windows version it generally
uses a method that returns those numbers. Win95 and
Win98 were not versions. They were just brand names. In
the same way, checking WinME returns 4.9, not "Millennium".

The .Net docs are he
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...=vs.85%29.aspx

The Win32 API used by non.Net software offers GetVersionEx
to return the same numbers. GetVersionEx returns lots of things,
but a string version of the OS name isn't one of them.

Platform check isn't necessary anymore because it's all
NT and has been since 2001. There was never a Windows
version that returned "9" as the major version number.

In fact, Microsoft have screwed things up themselves
far more than numbers could. Starting with Vista they
brought in "virtualization". If software is set for XP
compatibility Vista/7 will tell the running software that it's
running on XP. (It returns v. 5 when it should return v. 6.)
But it's not running on XP! There's a difference and it matters.
I had to redesign my version checks when Vista came out
so that I could find the *real* version my software was
running on.

There may be a way to return a brand string, from the
Registry or some such, but software doesn't do anything
like that. It would only be used for something like a
system info program, to display official looking info about
the system.

I find it interesting that no one knows why MS picked
10 instead of 9. That seems to indicate that they didn't
have a good reason other than to compete with Apple
or simply because it seemed more impressive. Another
popular theory is that it's 10 to show how different the
new version is. But it's not different. And anyway, the
method they've always used to show that the new Windows
version is very different from the last is to increase the
major version number by 1. The internal version of Win10
may very well end up being something like 6.4. A very
different version might be 7.0. Either way, it's not 9 or 10.