Convert laptop to Windows 7

Mark Lloyd wrote:
[snip]

Oh and sometimes I've had problems with printing pages in FF, whereas
Chrome has usually worked ok for that. But I'm not a Chrome lover, to
put it mildly. I only use it as a last resort.

The first regular browser I used was Internet Explorer 3 (in about
1995). It had printing problems, mainly that if the page was too wide it
would be truncated horizontally with NO error indication. AFAIK, that
was NEVER fixed.

I seem to recall using IE2, and this is at the time that Netscape had the
overwhelming browser lead, so IE had a lot of catch up to do. I also seem
to recall some printing issues back then, too.

I've come to the conclusion that you can never be sure printing is going to
always work correctly on these web sites. But recently I've had fewer
problems with Chrome (with respect to printing, and also videos). But I
only use Chrome as a last resort, as I definitely prefer Firefox. But that
said, I'm also using an older version of FF since I'm using WinXP for the
most part. As I've said before, Win7 has its annoyances, especially for
those of us who spend a fair amount of time using Windows Explorer (or I
should say, trying to use it without the ever present "Access Denied" and
smoke and mirrors with junction points crapola).

On Wed, 6 Feb 2019 12:16:02 -0600, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

On 2/5/19 12:56 PM, Ken Blake wrote:

[snip]

Opera's another browser I dislike.

I once thought it was going to be the best, before they dropped Presto.
Now it's too much like Chrome.

There's no browser with nothing wrong with it.


Right, nothing is perfect. And if something were perfect to me, it
wouldn't be to you. We all have different tastes and preferences.

But FireFox is pretty close to perfect for me, especially with all the
extensions available. There are only a few things about it that I
would like to see changed, and they're mostly pretty minor.

On Wed, 6 Feb 2019 12:17:10 -0700, "Bill in Co"
[email protected] wrote:

As I've said before, Win7 has its annoyances, especially for
those of us who spend a fair amount of time using Windows Explorer (or I
should say, trying to use it without the ever present "Access Denied" and
smoke and mirrors with junction points crapola).

I've seen you mention that before, but I spend much of my Windows 7 time
in Win Explorer and I never run into those problems.

--

Char Jackson

Char Jackson wrote:
On Wed, 6 Feb 2019 12:17:10 -0700, "Bill in Co"
[email protected] wrote:

As I've said before, Win7 has its annoyances, especially for
those of us who spend a fair amount of time using Windows Explorer (or I
should say, trying to use it without the ever present "Access Denied" and
smoke and mirrors with junction points crapola).

I've seen you mention that before, but I spend much of my Windows 7 time
in Win Explorer and I never run into those problems.

You never run into "Access Denied" and the smoke and mirrors of junction
points?

On Wed, 6 Feb 2019 14:48:05 -0700, "Bill in Co"
[email protected] wrote:

Char Jackson wrote:
On Wed, 6 Feb 2019 12:17:10 -0700, "Bill in Co"
[email protected] wrote:

As I've said before, Win7 has its annoyances, especially for
those of us who spend a fair amount of time using Windows Explorer (or I
should say, trying to use it without the ever present "Access Denied" and
smoke and mirrors with junction points crapola).

I've seen you mention that before, but I spend much of my Windows 7 time
in Win Explorer and I never run into those problems.

You never run into "Access Denied" and the smoke and mirrors of junction
points?

The short answer is no, but the longer answer is that I vaguely remember
stumbling over "Documents and Settings" all those years ago, but I
quickly saw what that was about and it hasn't tripped me up since. I've
seen no other smoke or mirrors since then. Mind you, I work on data
drives primarily, rather than the OS drive.

To be completely honest, I liked Win Explorer in XP better than in 7
because it was so much faster, but no functionality has been lost that I
can see. Plus, I really like the Libraries feature, but I'm in the
minority there.

--

Char Jackson

On 06/02/2019 21:48, Bill in Co wrote:

Char Jackson wrote:

I've seen you mention that before, but I spend much of my Windows 7 time
in Win Explorer and I never run into those problems.

You never run into "Access Denied" and the smoke and mirrors of junction
points?

Note that you'd be well advised to take a back-up image of the C: drive
before doing this ...

What I do is take ownership of the entire C: drive, this can be done by
rt-clcking it, choosing Security, Advanced, Owner, Edit,
Administrators, Replace on subs, OK.

This on its own may be enought to remove the 'Access denied' message.

Then I give Administrators Full Control over every file. This has to be
done from a command prompt launched as administrator:
icacls C:\*.* /C /Q /L /T /grant Administrators:F

Then I delete the daftest junction points that lead to circular
references, for example there's one inside every user's Application Data
folder heirarchy that points back up to Application Data. The rest I
ignore.

Java Jive wrote:
On 06/02/2019 21:48, Bill in Co wrote:

Char Jackson wrote:

I've seen you mention that before, but I spend much of my Windows 7 time
in Win Explorer and I never run into those problems.

You never run into "Access Denied" and the smoke and mirrors of junction
points?

Note that you'd be well advised to take a back-up image of the C: drive
before doing this ...

What I do is take ownership of the entire C: drive, this can be done by
rt-clcking it, choosing Security, Advanced, Owner, Edit,
Administrators, Replace on subs, OK.

This on its own may be enought to remove the 'Access denied' message.

Then I give Administrators Full Control over every file. This has to be
done from a command prompt launched as administrator:
icacls C:\*.* /C /Q /L /T /grant Administrators:F

Then I delete the daftest junction points that lead to circular
references, for example there's one inside every user's Application Data
folder heirarchy that points back up to Application Data. The rest I
ignore.

This is exactly the crap that keeps me off of Windows 7, for the most part.
That, and the fact it takes twice as long to boot up this bloated OS. But
thanks for posting this, and I'll have to give it a try. I've already used
RegOwnershipEx on some of the directories.

Char Jackson wrote:
On Wed, 6 Feb 2019 14:48:05 -0700, "Bill in Co"
[email protected] wrote:

Char Jackson wrote:
On Wed, 6 Feb 2019 12:17:10 -0700, "Bill in Co"
[email protected] wrote:

As I've said before, Win7 has its annoyances, especially for
those of us who spend a fair amount of time using Windows Explorer (or
I should say, trying to use it without the ever present "Access
Denied" and smoke and mirrors with junction points crapola).

I've seen you mention that before, but I spend much of my Windows 7 time
in Win Explorer and I never run into those problems.

You never run into "Access Denied" and the smoke and mirrors of junction
points?

The short answer is no, but the longer answer is that I vaguely remember
stumbling over "Documents and Settings" all those years ago, but I
quickly saw what that was about and it hasn't tripped me up since. I've
seen no other smoke or mirrors since then. Mind you, I work on data
drives primarily, rather than the OS drive.

And that's the difference, I think.

To be completely honest, I liked Win Explorer in XP better than in 7
because it was so much faster, but no functionality has been lost that I
can see. Plus, I really like the Libraries feature, but I'm in the
minority there.

Yup, never could get into the Libraries thing.

On Wed, 6 Feb 2019 22:58:23 +0000, Java Jive
wrote:

On 06/02/2019 21:48, Bill in Co wrote:

Char Jackson wrote:

I've seen you mention that before, but I spend much of my Windows 7 time
in Win Explorer and I never run into those problems.

You never run into "Access Denied" and the smoke and mirrors of junction
points?

Note that you'd be well advised to take a back-up image of the C: drive
before doing this ...

What I do is take ownership of the entire C: drive, this can be done by
rt-clcking it, choosing Security, Advanced, Owner, Edit,
Administrators, Replace on subs, OK.

This on its own may be enought to remove the 'Access denied' message.

Then I give Administrators Full Control over every file. This has to be
done from a command prompt launched as administrator:
icacls C:\*.* /C /Q /L /T /grant Administrators:F

Then I delete the daftest junction points that lead to circular
references, for example there's one inside every user's Application Data
folder heirarchy that points back up to Application Data. The rest I
ignore.

I've never run into any scenario where I'd be tempted to do all of that.



--

Char Jackson

Char Jackson wrote:
On Wed, 6 Feb 2019 22:58:23 +0000, Java Jive
wrote:

On 06/02/2019 21:48, Bill in Co wrote:

Char Jackson wrote:

I've seen you mention that before, but I spend much of my Windows 7
time in Win Explorer and I never run into those problems.

You never run into "Access Denied" and the smoke and mirrors of junction
points?

Note that you'd be well advised to take a back-up image of the C: drive
before doing this ...

What I do is take ownership of the entire C: drive, this can be done by
rt-clcking it, choosing Security, Advanced, Owner, Edit,
Administrators, Replace on subs, OK.

This on its own may be enought to remove the 'Access denied' message.

Then I give Administrators Full Control over every file. This has to be
done from a command prompt launched as administrator:
icacls C:\*.* /C /Q /L /T /grant Administrators:F

Then I delete the daftest junction points that lead to circular
references, for example there's one inside every user's Application Data
folder heirarchy that points back up to Application Data. The rest I
ignore.

I've never run into any scenario where I'd be tempted to do all of that.


Yeah, but too, you said you spend more time on data drives, and not the OS
drives. That might be part of that, because I'll tell you, it can get to be
a real annoyance having to deal with all the obfuscations and convolutions
added by Windows 7 and its successors (I do presume). None of this
"impediment nonsense" exists in Windows XP, or the preceding OS versions
(unless I missed it).

Bill in Co wrote:
Char Jackson wrote:
On Wed, 6 Feb 2019 22:58:23 +0000, Java Jive
wrote:

On 06/02/2019 21:48, Bill in Co wrote:
Char Jackson wrote:
I've seen you mention that before, but I spend much of my Windows 7
time in Win Explorer and I never run into those problems.
You never run into "Access Denied" and the smoke and mirrors of junction
points?
Note that you'd be well advised to take a back-up image of the C: drive
before doing this ...

What I do is take ownership of the entire C: drive, this can be done by
rt-clcking it, choosing Security, Advanced, Owner, Edit,
Administrators, Replace on subs, OK.

This on its own may be enought to remove the 'Access denied' message.

Then I give Administrators Full Control over every file. This has to be
done from a command prompt launched as administrator:
icacls C:\*.* /C /Q /L /T /grant Administrators:F

Then I delete the daftest junction points that lead to circular
references, for example there's one inside every user's Application Data
folder heirarchy that points back up to Application Data. The rest I
ignore.
I've never run into any scenario where I'd be tempted to do all of that.


Yeah, but too, you said you spend more time on data drives, and not the OS
drives. That might be part of that, because I'll tell you, it can get to be
a real annoyance having to deal with all the obfuscations and convolutions
added by Windows 7 and its successors (I do presume). None of this
"impediment nonsense" exists in Windows XP, or the preceding OS versions
(unless I missed it).

I bet your eyes lit up, when Java posted that.

I'm expecting experimental results soon...

Paul

Paul wrote:
Bill in Co wrote:
Char Jackson wrote:
On Wed, 6 Feb 2019 22:58:23 +0000, Java Jive
wrote:

On 06/02/2019 21:48, Bill in Co wrote:
Char Jackson wrote:
I've seen you mention that before, but I spend much of my Windows 7
time in Win Explorer and I never run into those problems.
You never run into "Access Denied" and the smoke and mirrors of
junction points?
Note that you'd be well advised to take a back-up image of the C: drive
before doing this ...

What I do is take ownership of the entire C: drive, this can be done by
rt-clcking it, choosing Security, Advanced, Owner, Edit,
Administrators, Replace on subs, OK.

This on its own may be enought to remove the 'Access denied' message.

Then I give Administrators Full Control over every file. This has to
be done from a command prompt launched as administrator:
icacls C:\*.* /C /Q /L /T /grant Administrators:F

Then I delete the daftest junction points that lead to circular
references, for example there's one inside every user's Application
Data folder heirarchy that points back up to Application Data. The
rest I ignore.
I've never run into any scenario where I'd be tempted to do all of that.


Yeah, but too, you said you spend more time on data drives, and not the
OS drives. That might be part of that, because I'll tell you, it can
get to be a real annoyance having to deal with all the obfuscations and
convolutions added by Windows 7 and its successors (I do presume). None
of this "impediment nonsense" exists in Windows XP, or the
preceding OS versions (unless I missed it).

I bet your eyes lit up, when Java posted that.

I'm expecting experimental results soon...

Paul

You may be waiting awhile, since I'm having a hard time leaving my XP
computer. :-) At the rate things are going over here, I expect that day
will only come when XP becomes useless to me, due to some browser
limitations on various websites. That, plus the fact that I don't have a
Windows 7 desktop computer, but only a Windows XP desktop computer, which I
naturally prefer using over the laptop.

On Wed, 6 Feb 2019 20:12:33 -0700, "Bill in Co"
[email protected] wrote:

Char Jackson wrote:
On Wed, 6 Feb 2019 22:58:23 +0000, Java Jive
wrote:

On 06/02/2019 21:48, Bill in Co wrote:

Char Jackson wrote:

I've seen you mention that before, but I spend much of my Windows 7
time in Win Explorer and I never run into those problems.

You never run into "Access Denied" and the smoke and mirrors of junction
points?

Note that you'd be well advised to take a back-up image of the C: drive
before doing this ...

What I do is take ownership of the entire C: drive, this can be done by
rt-clcking it, choosing Security, Advanced, Owner, Edit,
Administrators, Replace on subs, OK.

This on its own may be enought to remove the 'Access denied' message.

Then I give Administrators Full Control over every file. This has to be
done from a command prompt launched as administrator:
icacls C:\*.* /C /Q /L /T /grant Administrators:F

Then I delete the daftest junction points that lead to circular
references, for example there's one inside every user's Application Data
folder heirarchy that points back up to Application Data. The rest I
ignore.

I've never run into any scenario where I'd be tempted to do all of that.


Yeah, but too, you said you spend more time on data drives, and not the OS
drives. That might be part of that, because I'll tell you, it can get to be
a real annoyance having to deal with all the obfuscations and convolutions
added by Windows 7 and its successors (I do presume). None of this
"impediment nonsense" exists in Windows XP, or the preceding OS versions
(unless I missed it).

The split is probably 70/30 or 60/40, so if working on the OS drive was
full of smoke and mirrors, I would have noticed back in, what, 2007?
When 7 was a new OS for me? So no, I wouldn't say there's any problem
working on the OS drive. I never noticed anything annoying and I'm not
sure why you're running into problems.

--

Char Jackson

Char Jackson wrote:
On Wed, 6 Feb 2019 20:12:33 -0700, "Bill in Co"
[email protected] wrote:

Char Jackson wrote:
On Wed, 6 Feb 2019 22:58:23 +0000, Java Jive
wrote:

On 06/02/2019 21:48, Bill in Co wrote:
Char Jackson wrote:
I've seen you mention that before, but I spend much of my Windows 7
time in Win Explorer and I never run into those problems.
You never run into "Access Denied" and the smoke and mirrors of junction
points?
Note that you'd be well advised to take a back-up image of the C: drive
before doing this ...

What I do is take ownership of the entire C: drive, this can be done by
rt-clcking it, choosing Security, Advanced, Owner, Edit,
Administrators, Replace on subs, OK.

This on its own may be enought to remove the 'Access denied' message.

Then I give Administrators Full Control over every file. This has to be
done from a command prompt launched as administrator:
icacls C:\*.* /C /Q /L /T /grant Administrators:F

Then I delete the daftest junction points that lead to circular
references, for example there's one inside every user's Application Data
folder heirarchy that points back up to Application Data. The rest I
ignore.
I've never run into any scenario where I'd be tempted to do all of that.

Yeah, but too, you said you spend more time on data drives, and not the OS
drives. That might be part of that, because I'll tell you, it can get to be
a real annoyance having to deal with all the obfuscations and convolutions
added by Windows 7 and its successors (I do presume). None of this
"impediment nonsense" exists in Windows XP, or the preceding OS versions
(unless I missed it).

The split is probably 70/30 or 60/40, so if working on the OS drive was
full of smoke and mirrors, I would have noticed back in, what, 2007?
When 7 was a new OS for me? So no, I wouldn't say there's any problem
working on the OS drive. I never noticed anything annoying and I'm not
sure why you're running into problems.


I don't think impediment nonsense is quite the right word for it.

D:PAI(A;OICI;FA;;;BA)
(A;OICI;FA;;;SY)
(A;OICI;0x1200a9;;;BU)
(A;OICIIO;SDGXGWGR;;;AU)
(A;;LC;;;AU)S:P(ML;OINPIO;NW;;;HI)
$Recycle.Bin

But it sure could use a decoder ring.

And yes, of course it looks cool and groovy in
a Properties Security tab. But that doesn't change the
fact that sometimes, you can't figure out what in that
mess, is actually blocking access.

The sad part is, that Linux isn't able to keep up with the
"improvements" in Windows 10, and if examining disks from Linux,
some attempts to probe an item receive "I/O Error". Which isn't
an I/O Error and does not mean your disk has a bad sector. Rather,
the error is "this file system driver doesn't know how to translate
the metadata it sees for this item". Even a third-party offering
from Paragon (offered because someone put effort into it
from a commercial perspective and wants to charge money),
even it cannot do the job. They only managed to solve one
of the issues, leaving others just as bad as they used to be.

The problem is, that Reparse Points don't have to be documented.
And in fact, it's rather a miracle that running CHKDSK from
Windows 7, on a Windows 10 C: , doesn't ruin it. Windows 7
doesn't necessarily understand what's going on either.
Windows 7 should not know how the "new compression method" works
on Windows 10.

And if you want some fun some time, try removing an item
with "VFS" in the path. Seems to be associated with Office
files a user doesn't own or need.

I guess the reason this isn't an issue for Macrium Reflect,
is it doesn't have to interpret the items like that. Just copy
the various component parts of them. But where that idea breaks
down a bit, is when Macrium restores and you change the partition
size, it does know how to move files around. And I'm not convinced
it could use the defragmenter API for doing that either. So maybe the
staff at Macrium could write a proper file system driver.

Paul

Char Jackson wrote:
On Wed, 6 Feb 2019 20:12:33 -0700, "Bill in Co"
[email protected] wrote:

Char Jackson wrote:
On Wed, 6 Feb 2019 22:58:23 +0000, Java Jive
wrote:

On 06/02/2019 21:48, Bill in Co wrote:

Char Jackson wrote:

I've seen you mention that before, but I spend much of my Windows 7
time in Win Explorer and I never run into those problems.

You never run into "Access Denied" and the smoke and mirrors of
junction points?

Note that you'd be well advised to take a back-up image of the C: drive
before doing this ...

What I do is take ownership of the entire C: drive, this can be done by
rt-clcking it, choosing Security, Advanced, Owner, Edit,
Administrators, Replace on subs, OK.

This on its own may be enought to remove the 'Access denied' message.

Then I give Administrators Full Control over every file. This has to
be done from a command prompt launched as administrator:
icacls C:\*.* /C /Q /L /T /grant Administrators:F

Then I delete the daftest junction points that lead to circular
references, for example there's one inside every user's Application
Data folder heirarchy that points back up to Application Data. The
rest I ignore.

I've never run into any scenario where I'd be tempted to do all of that.


Yeah, but too, you said you spend more time on data drives, and not the
OS drives. That might be part of that, because I'll tell you, it can
get to be a real annoyance having to deal with all the obfuscations and
convolutions added by Windows 7 and its successors (I do presume).
None of this "impediment nonsense" exists in Windows XP, or the
preceding OS versions (unless I missed it).

The split is probably 70/30 or 60/40, so if working on the OS drive was
full of smoke and mirrors, I would have noticed back in, what, 2007?
When 7 was a new OS for me? So no, I wouldn't say there's any problem
working on the OS drive. I never noticed anything annoying and I'm not
sure why you're running into problems.

Well, I think Java Jive illustrated the essence of some of those annoyances,
best. :-)