keyboard funny - loss of ")" character

In message , VanguardLH
writes:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

VanguardLH WROTE:

Same happen when you move the keyboard to a different computer?

Laptop.

Laptops don't have room for a number pad, so they overlay the numpad
keys atop the alphanumeric keys at the right end. Look at:

https://www.replacementlaptopkeys.co...s/sony_vpcx_la
ptop_keyboard_key.jpg
(click to enlarge)

Notice the 0 (zero) key at the top row has 3 characters possible: 0
(zero), right parens, and / (divide). I don't remember how it is done
but there is some way to turn on the numpad characters for those keys.

I _think_ it varies between laptops. On this one, it's Fn+F11, called
"Numeric Overlay". I _have_ very occasionally fallen foul of it (i. e.
turned it on by mistake), but (once I'd learned about it!), its symptoms
are quite obvious - more the letter keys UIOJKLM don't produce their
normal letters, than just the 0/) key. Good thinking, though!

However, if that were the case, I would think you would get / (slash)
for each press on Shift+0 that doesn't appear to do anything. I would
find out what toggles the numpad and toggle it a couple times and then
once more, if needed, to turn off the numpad to make sure the toggle
state didn't get confused for those keys.

I'm afraid that's not it.

Have you yet cold booted the laptop? I don't mean shutdown into
low-power or hibernate mode but completely powered off. For a cold
boot, the CPU sends a reset signal to all hardware to make sure it
starts in a known state. I've had hardware that got confused to what
state it should be, and a cold boot gave it the reset to start at a
known initial state.

Yes - since this started, some months ago, I've had several of all sorts
of powerdown - low-power, controlled shutdown, and uncontrolled shutdown
(running on battery and not realising). [I don't _think_ I've had a
_crash_ as such - I'm pretty sure I've never had a BSOD - though if the
fault is in one of its more aggressive modes, actually triggering a
shutdown can be hard work. But I can usually get there with the mouse
(trackpad).]

Do you have Sticky Keys enabled in Windows? You may not have
deliberately enable it but did so accidentally. Pressing Shift 5 times
in rapid succession will turn on Stick Keys. I've done that a couple
time when ****ed at something and ended up hitting the Shift more than 5
times and wondering what that beep was for.

No. Sometimes I do the same, but I have it set to pop up an ask. (I do
have the thing that beeps when I change the lock [mainly so I know if I
hit caps lock by mistake], but that doesn't change anything, it's only a
beep. [May be called "toggle keys" - it was under XP - which is a
misleading name for it.])

You press Shift+0 but don't get a right parenthesis character. The
question is if there is a hardware fault where the keypress is not
registered; i.e., no scan code for the keypress is sent. The other
possibility is that some software has usurped that key combo. Keyboards
generate 2 scan codes per keypress: keydown and keyup. That way,
software can see if you pressed a key or released it. It has too long
since I used a key scan code tool to remember what I've used. I
remember running it and then I'd press and hold down a key to see what
the tool said was that scan code. Then I'd release the key to see what
different scan code got generated for that action. I wasn't using it to
find missing scan codes but to define some key remapping. Keyboard
keyboard remapping software is also a possibility for the missing scan
code for downpress+0 issuing the scan code for that key combo.

I've just got one - when I saw there was a NirSoft one, I got that
(https://www.nirsoft.net/utils/keyboard_state_view.html) as I find his
utils excellent. (I was a little surprised to find I didn't already have
it as part of his suite; maybe it is too new.) I have looked at what it
shows when I type shift and 0 now, and will try again next time I get
_that_ fault. Thanks for the suggestion.

I'd first boot Windows into its safe mode to see the problem still
exists. If so, I'd try a keyboard scan code reporting tool that showed
me both downpress and release of keys for their scan codes.

Trouble is, I'd have to run in safe mode for a long time to see if the
problem exists, as it often doesn't show up for ages.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Never raise your hand to your children. It leaves your mid-section unprotected

You said the problem started several months ago. Did you do any cleanup
back then, like getting rid of programs for processes you thought
weren't necessary or as part of a cleanup to get rid of fluffware from
wasting memory and CPU cycles? I did that on a Dell a long time ago. I
found processes for programs that seemed superfluous. I didn't need nor
want all the fluff features that Dell shoved into their laptops, so I
either uninstall those programs or manually cleaned them out. Turned
out that what looked like a fluff featured keyboard program turned out
to also be a dynamic driver (loads on demand instead of during Windows
boot) and as a startup entry that I thought was superfluous. After
removing uninstalling the program, some features of the keyboard were no
longer available (too long for me to remember what got removed). Alas,
Dell with their provided install media required I'd install their suite
program of lots of fluffware just to get back that one keyboard program.
I managed to find the right download from their site for just that
keyboard program, installed it, and got full functionality of the
keyboard.

pop the key cap off and clean the area !
dirt shifts around as you hit the key.

I had that happen and cleaning solved the problem.

And ... Stop eating crumb cake !

In message , NoName
writes:
pop the key cap off and clean the area !
dirt shifts around as you hit the key.

I had that happen and cleaning solved the problem.

And ... Stop eating crumb cake !


(-:

My keyboards etc. _do_ tend to accumulate beard hair!

However, it's only ")" that sometimes fails - I can still type "0"
(zero), which is on the same key. [And other shifted keys - such as
"9"/"(" - work as they should.]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Less rules means fewer grammar? - Marjorie in UMRA, 2014-1-28 13:14

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in message
...

This minor manifestation of my keyboard problems is particularly puzzling.
Whether it's connected with the other funnies, I don't know: it doesn't
seem to be correlated!

This one manifests as an inability to type the character ) [close round
bracket]. On my keyboard layout, it is the shifted 0 (zero) character. [UK
layout - though I think that's where it is on lots of others, such as the
default (US) one.] It is not a hardware fault: I can type a zero, and I can
use the shift keys with any other key where doing so produces a different
character (I think that's all keys).

I don't know what (if anything specific) starts it (the fault is always
absent after a reboot); I also don't know what stops it - after a while,
though it _may_ well be something I do rather than just random, I find I
can type ) again. I can paste a ) no problem [my signature contains at
least one, so finding one to copy's no problem), but obviously that's
tedious.

Has anyone else experienced this weird one? (Does anyone know what its
cause is?)

JPG
---


Fair petitions? See 255soft.uk; #fairpetitions @jpeg_G6;
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/232770 (UK only)
--
4-way STV referendum: no deal, Barnier deal (NI stays), May deal, or
remain?

Try typing the ASCII code for it. Press the Alt key then enter 041 and see
if it shows on the screen.

May be that something remapped the key.

Open Control Panel and select Clock, Language and Region

Under Region and Language select Change Keyboards or other input methods

On the Formats tab Additional settings and click on the Reset button
(bottom right)

See if that doesn't restore the ) key function.

--
Bob S.

In message , n/a writes:
"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in message
...

This minor manifestation of my keyboard problems is particularly
puzzling. Whether it's connected with the other funnies, I don't know:
it doesn't seem to be correlated!

This one manifests as an inability to type the character ) [close
round bracket]. On my keyboard layout, it is the shifted 0 (zero)
character. [UK layout - though I think that's where it is on lots of
others, such as the default (US) one.] It is not a hardware fault: I
can type a zero, and I can use the shift keys with any other key where
doing so produces a different character (I think that's all keys).

I don't know what (if anything specific) starts it (the fault is
always absent after a reboot); I also don't know what stops it - after
a while, though it _may_ well be something I do rather than just
random, I find I can type ) again. I can paste a ) no problem [my
signature contains at least one, so finding one to copy's no problem),
but obviously that's tedious.

Has anyone else experienced this weird one? (Does anyone know what its
cause is?)

JPG
---


Fair petitions? See 255soft.uk; #fairpetitions @jpeg_G6;
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/232770 (UK only)
--
4-way STV referendum: no deal, Barnier deal (NI stays), May deal, or
remain?

Try typing the ASCII code for it. Press the Alt key then enter 041 and
see if it shows on the screen.

That only works if you enter it on the numeric keypad. Which smaller
laptops do not have (except via an obscure fiddle).

May be that something remapped the key.

Well, it would have to be something that (a) just cuts in after a while,
(b) gets cleared.

Open Control Panel and select Clock, Language and Region

Under Region and Language select Change Keyboards or other input methods

On the Formats tab Additional settings and click on the Reset
button (bottom right)

See if that doesn't restore the ) key function.

I've only got one keyboard (UK English) layout.

I've taken (ITIW) Mayayana's suggestion of getting a keycode logger. Of
course, since I've installed that, the problem is not showing itself!
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Grief generates a huge energy in you and it's better for everybody if you
harness it to do something. - Judi Dench, RT 2015/2/28-3/6

On Fri, 15 Mar 2019 01:21:52 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message , n/a writes:

Try typing the ASCII code for it. Press the Alt key then enter 041 and
see if it shows on the screen.

That only works if you enter it on the numeric keypad. Which smaller
laptops do not have (except via an obscure fiddle).

As mentioned yesterday, just plug in a second (full size) keyboard, so
when the time comes for you to need a numeric keypad, you have it. You
don't have to 'switch' to the other keyboard; just reach over and start
typing on it.

--

Char Jackson

In message , Char Jackson
writes:
On Fri, 15 Mar 2019 01:21:52 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message , n/a writes:

Try typing the ASCII code for it. Press the Alt key then enter 041 and
see if it shows on the screen.

That only works if you enter it on the numeric keypad. Which smaller
laptops do not have (except via an obscure fiddle).

As mentioned yesterday, just plug in a second (full size) keyboard, so
when the time comes for you to need a numeric keypad, you have it. You
don't have to 'switch' to the other keyboard; just reach over and start
typing on it.

The only time I really need the numeric pad is to enter character codes
- and on the whole I find AllChars' sequences easier to remember (a
lot). [OK, entering a lot of numbers is a bit easier on a numpad {though
I'm left-handed, but we LHers have to be somewhat ambidextrous}, but I
don't do that a lot; if I did, I'd be using a bigger laptop with a
numpad.]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

And on the question of authorship, I subscribe to the view that the plays were
not in fact written by Shakespeare but by someone of the same name.
- Hugh Bonneville (RT 2014/10/11-17)

On Fri, 15 Mar 2019 08:49:11 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message , Char Jackson
writes:
On Fri, 15 Mar 2019 01:21:52 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message , n/a writes:

Try typing the ASCII code for it. Press the Alt key then enter 041 and
see if it shows on the screen.

That only works if you enter it on the numeric keypad. Which smaller
laptops do not have (except via an obscure fiddle).

As mentioned yesterday, just plug in a second (full size) keyboard, so
when the time comes for you to need a numeric keypad, you have it. You
don't have to 'switch' to the other keyboard; just reach over and start
typing on it.

The only time I really need the numeric pad is to enter character codes
- and on the whole I find AllChars' sequences easier to remember (a
lot). [OK, entering a lot of numbers is a bit easier on a numpad {though
I'm left-handed, but we LHers have to be somewhat ambidextrous}, but I
don't do that a lot; if I did, I'd be using a bigger laptop with a
numpad.]

I wasn't suggesting that you leave a second KB permanently attached. :-)
It's only to help troubleshoot this strange issue that you're having.

Speaking of troubleshooting, if it were me I would have uninstalled both
of the applications that mess with the keyboard and run for a suitable
period of time without them. Keeping them installed and active, and only
disabling one or both when the issue arises, doesn't seem good enough.

--

Char Jackson

I just had the loss of ")" again, so turned on NirSoft's
KeyBoardStateView.

It showed exactly the same keypresses for "(" (shift-9) as for ")"
(shift-0), other than of course one had the 9 key and one the 0 key. But
I did notice that all the time it showed left Ctrl as pressed. Weird
thing is that actually tapping left ctrl had an effect (for example: I
have the Windows built-in utility on that draws circles round the mouse
cursor to help you find it if you tap either ctrl key, and tapping the
left [or right] ctrl key still makes the rings appear), so it doesn't
seem that the key is _actually_ stuck.

Tapping the left ctrl key a few times eventually made its "pressedness"
disappear from KeyBoardStateView - and hey presto, I could then type ")"
again!

It's still a puzzle: even if there _is_ a problem with the left ctrl
key, why should it stop me typing ")" - but leave me able to type "(",
"*", or any capital letter? [To recap: when this does cut in, I can
still type a zero, just shift-zero has no effect.] But at least I _may_
have a way of getting round it (other than cutting and pasting ")"s!).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

The thing about smut is it harms no one and it's rarely cruel. Besides, it's a
gleeful rejection of the dreary and the "correct".
- Alison Graham, RT 2014/10/25-31

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
I just had the loss of ")" again, so turned on NirSoft's KeyBoardStateView.

It showed exactly the same keypresses for "(" (shift-9) as for ")"
(shift-0), other than of course one had the 9 key and one the 0 key. But
I did notice that all the time it showed left Ctrl as pressed. Weird
thing is that actually tapping left ctrl had an effect (for example: I
have the Windows built-in utility on that draws circles round the mouse
cursor to help you find it if you tap either ctrl key, and tapping the
left [or right] ctrl key still makes the rings appear), so it doesn't
seem that the key is _actually_ stuck.

Tapping the left ctrl key a few times eventually made its "pressedness"
disappear from KeyBoardStateView - and hey presto, I could then type ")"
again!

It's still a puzzle: even if there _is_ a problem with the left ctrl
key, why should it stop me typing ")" - but leave me able to type "(",
"*", or any capital letter? [To recap: when this does cut in, I can
still type a zero, just shift-zero has no effect.] But at least I _may_
have a way of getting round it (other than cutting and pasting ")"s!).

This sounds like an Accessibility Feature.

One that "stretches" actuation of modifier keys,
so a disabled person can be just as productive
as everyone else.

In other words, *some* operation you are inadvertently
typing, keeps the "control" "jammed" for a period of
time, or until enough key presses have occurred to
cancel it.

*******

Keyboards in the past, used to have "private" signals for
shift, control, alt. They weren't on the "scanner matrix".

But as I understand it, newer keyboards may have been
modified such that those keys have been put on the
main matrix. The disadvantage of that, is if there
is an "ohmic" problem with the scan matrix, then
funny phantom key presses can be a result. But your
modifier stays asserted for too long, for that to be
a nice match for such a behavior.

Just a guess,
Paul

On 17/03/2019 11:24, Paul wrote:

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

It showed exactly the same keypresses for "(" (shift-9) as for ")"
(shift-0), other than of course one had the 9 key and one the 0 key.
But I did notice that all the time it showed left Ctrl as pressed.
Weird thing is that actually tapping left ctrl had an effect (for
example: I have the Windows built-in utility on that draws circles
round the mouse cursor to help you find it if you tap either ctrl key,
and tapping the left [or right] ctrl key still makes the rings
appear), so it doesn't seem that the key is _actually_ stuck.

Tapping the left ctrl key a few times eventually made its
"pressedness" disappear from KeyBoardStateView - and hey presto, I
could then type ")" again!

This sounds like an Accessibility Feature.

One that "stretches" actuation of modifier keys,
so a disabled person can be just as productive
as everyone else.

In other words, *some* operation you are inadvertently
typing, keeps the "control" "jammed" for a period of
time, or until enough key presses have occurred to
cancel it.

Yes, I'd agree. The thread has got so long and convoluted that I can't
remember what JPG has already tried, but he might like to go into
Control Panel, Ease of Access to see if there's anything enabled there
that doesn't need to be - particularly Make the Keyboard Easier To
Use, Turn on Sticky Keys if enabled would be the first thing I'd turn off.

In message , Java Jive
writes:
On 17/03/2019 11:24, Paul wrote:

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

It showed exactly the same keypresses for "(" (shift-9) as for ")"
(shift-0), other than of course one had the 9 key and one the 0 key.
But I did notice that all the time it showed left Ctrl as pressed.
Weird thing is that actually tapping left ctrl had an effect (for
[]
appear), so it doesn't seem that the key is _actually_ stuck.

Tapping the left ctrl key a few times eventually made its
"pressedness" disappear from KeyBoardStateView - and hey presto, I
could then type ")" again!
This sounds like an Accessibility Feature.
One that "stretches" actuation of modifier keys,
so a disabled person can be just as productive
as everyone else.
In other words, *some* operation you are inadvertently
typing, keeps the "control" "jammed" for a period of
time, or until enough key presses have occurred to
cancel it.

Yes, I'd agree. The thread has got so long and convoluted that I can't
remember what JPG has already tried, but he might like to go into
Control Panel, Ease of Access to see if there's anything enabled there
that doesn't need to be - particularly Make the Keyboard Easier To
Use, Turn on Sticky Keys if enabled would be the first thing I'd turn off.
Thanks both. Yes, I've wondered about that - but, as Paul said in the
bit JJ snipped, "But your modifier stays asserted for too long, for that
to be a nice match for such a behavior." Yes, once it has "asserted", it
stays for several minutes - then goes (I suddenly find I can type ")"s
again). Besides, I can't think of an accessibility feature that'd
disable ")" but not "(".

I know the three accessibility features; the only one I have on isn't a
keyboard behaviour modifier (although it's name - "Toggle Keys" - sounds
like it should be); it's simply an audio feedback when you
engage/disengage a lock. I have it on mainly as an indication that I've
hit Caps Lock by accident; I don't really think it should be with the
other Accessibility features, but I suppose it had to go somewhere.

I don't have either Mouse Keys, Sticky Keys, or Filter Keys turned on. I
don't _think_ I trigger the keyboard way of turning them on;
irritatingly, the accessibility page doesn't tell you what they are, but
I know pressing shift five times is one of them because I occasionally
get a popup asking me if I wanted to do that. (Again irritatingly, that
popup includes a link "Go to the Ease of Access Centre to disable the
keyboard shortcut", but clicking it just takes you to the same settings
page, which doesn't have a disable-five-shifts-shortcut anywhere on it.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Imagine a world with no hypothetical situations...

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote

| It showed exactly the same keypresses for "(" (shift-9) as for ")"
| (shift-0), other than of course one had the 9 key and one the 0 key.
| But I did notice that all the time it showed left Ctrl as pressed.
| Weird thing is that actually tapping left ctrl had an effect (for

I wonder about the possibility of a loose connection in
the Ctrl key. That could do what you describe. Ctrl sends
a shift value of 2 while Shift sends 1. Ctrl seems to
generally override Shift. Maybe that makes sense. If I keep
Ctrl down in Notepad I can't type at all. So the typical
functionality seems to be something like:

If Ctrl key then
Check for hotkey and quit
Otherwise
Check for Shift
Enter character
Quit

In message , Mayayana
writes:
"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote

| It showed exactly the same keypresses for "(" (shift-9) as for ")"
| (shift-0), other than of course one had the 9 key and one the 0 key.
| But I did notice that all the time it showed left Ctrl as pressed.
| Weird thing is that actually tapping left ctrl had an effect (for

I wonder about the possibility of a loose connection in
the Ctrl key. That could do what you describe. Ctrl sends
a shift value of 2 while Shift sends 1. Ctrl seems to
generally override Shift. Maybe that makes sense. If I keep
Ctrl down in Notepad I can't type at all. So the typical
functionality seems to be something like:

If Ctrl key then
Check for hotkey and quit
Otherwise
Check for Shift
Enter character
Quit

That could indeed be a plausible explanation for my other keyboard funny
(if the fault was/is that the key seems as if it's stuck down); I'll use
KeyBoardStateView next time I get that one, thanks. I don't _think_ it
would explain the trivial can't-type-")" one, as surely it would also
prevent me from being able to type "(" and "_".

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

If you believe in telekinesis, raise my right hand