Windows 8 is a Flop, just as I predicted

Ken Blake, MVP wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jul 2014 23:23:02 -0400, ". . .winston"
wrote:

But desktops are still the norm for older people and especially
office work; and those number millions.

Agreed.

Currently true and should continue for some time but the number of
tablet-smart type devices brought into the workplace by employes has
already changed that ecosystem. The 1980 and later generations will
inevitable determine the future for both.


I like, have, and use both--the desktop when I'm home, the tablet when
I'm traveling. But I see the possibility of that changing in the
future; as tablets and tablets apps become better and better, they
might replace desktops in my home too.


That evolution started years ago when folks starting bringing smart
devices into the workplace and schools and contrary to the good-old-boy
IT departments that incorrectly thought they could protect their wired
turfdom by policy and or prevention. Subsequent wifi improvements in
scale and security proved that position futile.

It's inevitable...desktops will still have a place, but all those
naysayers who believe smart devices won't become the tool of choice
across the entire system on this planet will easily be proven wrong by
the generations that follow them.

One only needs to look at the history of how pcs were once discretionary
expense. Less than a decade ago that changed to essential expenses.
Portability likewise was discretionary and gradually becoming essential.




--
...winston
msft mvp consumer apps

Stephen Wolstenholme wrote:
On Mon, 28 Jul 2014 21:28:03 -0700, "Gene E. Bloch"
wrote:

It goes back to the days of real men (and women) and real operating
systems: totally command line :-)

'Command line' is so modern. You mean the switch panels are no longer
needed!

Steve


Back then, you had front panel rocker switches. For a rocking
good time. I used to enter hand-assembled programs into this
thing, using those switches on the front. One of these cost
$18,000 , but the boss was paying for it. He was one of those
people, who didn't know what to spend money on.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...omputer_02.jpg

For home projects, it's too much work to build an Altair-style
front panel. Instead, DIP switches make a good substitute.
In particular, the "rocker" style DIP switches, not the
"slider" kind, can be used for program entry. My home-brew
machine used 16 switches for address, 16 switches for data,
and a 8 digit 7 segment calculator display for (temporary) output.

http://www.robotroom.com/Alphanumeri...Dip-Switch.jpg

The output on the calculator display was in hex. The
first four digits were the address, the second four digits
were the data at that address. So if your program ran
properly, you could draw this sort of thing on the calculator
display. Who needs DOS ? Or printf() ?
_ _ _ _ _
_| |_ |_| _| |_ |_ |_ |_
|_| |_ | | |_| |_| |_ |_ |

Good times (I guess),

Paul

.. . .winston wrote:
Alias wrote:
. . .winston wrote:
Alias wrote:
Ed Cryer wrote:

The market would become overflowing with competing
versions of it; a bit like we have with gas and electricity suppliers,
who scramble their tariffs in order to befuddle the punters, tell
outright lies and rule; until eventually the gov would have to step in
and bring them to order.

At least MS were right about tablets. They're the future, no doubt
about
it.

Not true. They are a fad an low Ipad sales prove it.

Yep, only 200 million sold since introduction as of 2014 Q1.


But desktops are still the norm for older people and especially
office work; and those number millions.

Agreed.

Currently true and should continue for some time but the number of
tablet-smart type devices brought into the workplace by employes has
already changed that ecosystem. The 1980 and later generations will
inevitable determine the future for both.

And never underestimate the impact that Asia's consumers, as
infrastructure improves, will have on the long term direction.



It will be used like a laptop by connecting a keyboard and a mouse along
with a monitor that's big enough to actually get some work done. For
watching cats and dogs, tablets are great all by themselves but for real
work, not so much. And, very importantly, if you want to upgrade, you
will have to buy a new one, not a new hard drive, video card, power
supply, etc. Ya know, like Detroit did in the 70s with cars: made to
last until your payments are up. You saw what Japan did to Detroit for
that little trip.


The evolution has already started, tablets and other smart devices will
continue to replace desktops in all markets.

Doesn't matter how it' used...docking port, attachable devices...the
smaller scale factor comes with portability and increasingly necessary
for all (consumer, smb, and enterprise).




I hope that means desktops will get even cheaper. I'm sick of my 18"
laptop because it's too ****ing small and a pain to upgrade and the wife
won't let me have the desktop we do have with three hard drives, Linux
on one, W8 on another and the third for storage.

--
Alias

On Tue, 29 Jul 2014 08:00:37 -0400, Wolf Kirchmeir
wrote:


Did you mean tablet and not laptop?

"s/laptop/tablet" means "replace 'laptop' by 'tablet'"

Actually, Substitute "laptop" for "tablet". Hence the "s/..

That editing syntax goes back to early Unix days, but it's probably still used.


Interesting! Thanks for the explanation. That syntax is new to me, and
I didn't understand it either. I guess it shows that I know nothing
about Unix.

"Alias" wrote in message
...
Wolf K wrote:
On 2014-07-28 12:38 PM, Ken Blake, MVP wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jul 2014 23:23:02 -0400, ". . .winston"
wrote:

But desktops are still the norm for older people and especially
office work; and those number millions.

Agreed.

Currently true and should continue for some time but the number of
tablet-smart type devices brought into the workplace by employes has
already changed that ecosystem. The 1980 and later generations will
inevitable determine the future for both.


I like, have, and use both--the desktop when I'm home, the tablet when
I'm traveling. But I see the possibility of that changing in the
future; as tablets and tablets apps become better and better, they
might replace desktops in my home too.

My Surface Pro 2 128GB replaces the desktop while travelling. It can do
everything the desktop can do. It can connect automatically with pretty
well any current wi-fi device, and many of the older ones too (sometimes
a driver is needed). With the dock, it becomes desktop at home, with
both wi-fi and wired connections to external devices. I've added a 64GB
micro-SD card, which serves as the data-backup drive. I've noticed that
it shows my brother's smart TV, to which it connected automatically
while we were there. It's also a camera and a video recorder. Only
downside: it's a tad heavy. I've added Start8 and Modernmix so that the
GUI is desktop standard.

Now the Surface Pro 3 is out, a couple inches larger screen, about 30%
thinner and lighter, with an i7 CPU (instead of i5). Beautiful design,
too. I'm trying to persuade myself that I Really Really Need That. ;-)

Whatever, the Surface Pro 3 shows that you can have the power and
functionality of a desktop in a tablet. I expect even better versions of
this concept in future.

Have a good day.


IOW, they are turning tablets into desktops to succeed and the clueless
public is lapping it up and paying more. Can you replace the video card
with a new one? How about the power supply or hard drive? Or do you just
have to pony up some more bread for a new one?

It's more like replacing a laptop with a tablet. There are plenty of people
who use laptops at home. I'm the only one who uses a desktop at home,
everyone else uses a laptop. For some of us, a tablet or laptop cannot
replace a desktop. Gamers are n that group too. But I suspect that there
is a huge group of people who only use laptops and the move to a tablet
replacing them will happen.

On Tue, 29 Jul 2014 04:58:03 -0400, ". . .winston"
wrote:

Ken Blake, MVP wrote:

I like, have, and use both--the desktop when I'm home, the tablet when
I'm traveling. But I see the possibility of that changing in the
future; as tablets and tablets apps become better and better, they
might replace desktops in my home too.


That evolution started years ago when folks starting bringing smart
devices into the workplace and schools and contrary to the good-old-boy
IT departments that incorrectly thought they could protect their wired
turfdom by policy and or prevention. Subsequent wifi improvements in
scale and security proved that position futile.

It's inevitable...desktops will still have a place, but all those
naysayers who believe smart devices won't become the tool of choice
across the entire system on this planet will easily be proven wrong by
the generations that follow them.


I'm not a naysayer on this, and I agree that what you say is very
likely. I'm just not as strong about it as you are.

"Neil" wrote in message
...
On 7/28/2014 8:46 AM, PAS wrote:
"BillW50" wrote in message
...
On 7/27/2014 12:19 PM, Zaky Waky wrote:
BillW50 wrote in :

Subject: Windows 8 is a Flop, just as I predicted
From: BillW50
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-8

On 7/27/2014 6:32 AM, Ed Cryer wrote:
At least MS were right about tablets. They're the future, no doubt
about
it. But desktops are still the norm for older people and especially
office work; and those number millions.

While I have used tablets since around 2000, I knew virtually nothing
about Windows tablets. So I decided that I had to start learning. My
first one back in 2012 was a Windows 7 tablet. There wasn't many
Windows
8 tablets yet, so I bought two of them. One I installed Windows 8.

Why wouuld anyone car about this?

Any who cares about Windows tablets of course. And a Windows desktop and
a
Windows tablet are the same. Same OS, applications, keyboards, mice,
etc.

If you're speaking of the current crop of Windows tablets, there is a
difference. Some run Windows RT which is not the same as a "regular"
version of Windows.


RT is a subset of full Win8, and most of the limitations will be related
to applications, not mice, keyboards, etc. Even then, users that find the
RT adequate will not find themselves restricted w/r/t their desktops. The
current thrust at MS is to make the development of apps that can run on
all of their devices easier, and to that end, Win8.x is a big step in the
right direction.
--
Best regards,

Right, and as more and more apps are developed, the "difference" between RT
and full Win8 won't matter for many users.

Alias wrote:
. . .winston wrote:
Alias wrote:
. . .winston wrote:
Alias wrote:
Ed Cryer wrote:

The market would become overflowing with competing
versions of it; a bit like we have with gas and electricity
suppliers,
who scramble their tariffs in order to befuddle the punters, tell
outright lies and rule; until eventually the gov would have to
step in
and bring them to order.

At least MS were right about tablets. They're the future, no doubt
about
it.

Not true. They are a fad an low Ipad sales prove it.

Yep, only 200 million sold since introduction as of 2014 Q1.


But desktops are still the norm for older people and especially
office work; and those number millions.

Agreed.

Currently true and should continue for some time but the number of
tablet-smart type devices brought into the workplace by employes has
already changed that ecosystem. The 1980 and later generations will
inevitable determine the future for both.

And never underestimate the impact that Asia's consumers, as
infrastructure improves, will have on the long term direction.



It will be used like a laptop by connecting a keyboard and a mouse along
with a monitor that's big enough to actually get some work done. For
watching cats and dogs, tablets are great all by themselves but for real
work, not so much. And, very importantly, if you want to upgrade, you
will have to buy a new one, not a new hard drive, video card, power
supply, etc. Ya know, like Detroit did in the 70s with cars: made to
last until your payments are up. You saw what Japan did to Detroit for
that little trip.


The evolution has already started, tablets and other smart devices will
continue to replace desktops in all markets.

Doesn't matter how it' used...docking port, attachable devices...the
smaller scale factor comes with portability and increasingly necessary
for all (consumer, smb, and enterprise).




I hope that means desktops will get even cheaper. I'm sick of my 18"
laptop because it's too ****ing small and a pain to upgrade and the wife
won't let me have the desktop we do have with three hard drives, Linux
on one, W8 on another and the third for storage.


Imo, prices may moderate slightly but I wouldn't expect too much since
profit margin and inflation (while currently low) may nullify any
savings. In fact, the opposite could occur - a smaller supply base with
less variation in options may increase pricing.

--
...winston
msft mvp consumer apps

On Tue, 29 Jul 2014 10:16:23 -0400, "PAS"
wrote:

There are plenty of people who use laptops at home.


True. But I never understand why anyone uses a laptop in a situation
where he can use a desktop. Laptops cost more, are more vulnerable to
problems, are susceptible to being dropped and broken, are more
vulnerable to being stolen, are harder to repair, cost more to repair,
are much harder and more expensive to do hardware upgrades on, etc. As
far as I'm concerned, there are no advantages to laptops except for
their portability when you travel, and I always strongly recommend
against using a laptop at home.


I'm the only one who uses a desktop at home,
everyone else uses a laptop.



??? No you're not. I do, and I know many, many others who also do.

Or do you mean you're the only one *you* know who uses a desktop at
home? If so, you don't know many people.

.. . .winston wrote:
Alias wrote:
. . .winston wrote:
Alias wrote:
. . .winston wrote:
Alias wrote:
Ed Cryer wrote:

The market would become overflowing with competing
versions of it; a bit like we have with gas and electricity
suppliers,
who scramble their tariffs in order to befuddle the punters, tell
outright lies and rule; until eventually the gov would have to
step in
and bring them to order.

At least MS were right about tablets. They're the future, no doubt
about
it.

Not true. They are a fad an low Ipad sales prove it.

Yep, only 200 million sold since introduction as of 2014 Q1.


But desktops are still the norm for older people and especially
office work; and those number millions.

Agreed.

Currently true and should continue for some time but the number of
tablet-smart type devices brought into the workplace by employes has
already changed that ecosystem. The 1980 and later generations will
inevitable determine the future for both.

And never underestimate the impact that Asia's consumers, as
infrastructure improves, will have on the long term direction.



It will be used like a laptop by connecting a keyboard and a mouse
along
with a monitor that's big enough to actually get some work done. For
watching cats and dogs, tablets are great all by themselves but for
real
work, not so much. And, very importantly, if you want to upgrade, you
will have to buy a new one, not a new hard drive, video card, power
supply, etc. Ya know, like Detroit did in the 70s with cars: made to
last until your payments are up. You saw what Japan did to Detroit for
that little trip.


The evolution has already started, tablets and other smart devices will
continue to replace desktops in all markets.

Doesn't matter how it' used...docking port, attachable devices...the
smaller scale factor comes with portability and increasingly necessary
for all (consumer, smb, and enterprise).




I hope that means desktops will get even cheaper. I'm sick of my 18"
laptop because it's too ****ing small and a pain to upgrade and the wife
won't let me have the desktop we do have with three hard drives, Linux
on one, W8 on another and the third for storage.


Imo, prices may moderate slightly but I wouldn't expect too much since
profit margin and inflation (while currently low) may nullify any
savings. In fact, the opposite could occur - a smaller supply base with
less variation in options may increase pricing.


I think we're talking years, not months, and at my age, I doubt it will
affect me :-) I have noticed that larger monitors continue to drop in
price and motherboards continue to offer more and more options so it
will be awhile. Hell, the Spanish health system is still on XP and all
the docs have desktops, not laptops or tablets. HP made some good coin
on that deal ... I also think that repairing desktops will continue to
be cheaper than repairing a lap top or a tablet.

--
Alias

In the last episode of , Wolf K
said:

On 2014-07-28 8:03 PM, DevilsPGD wrote:
[...]
I just picked up a Surface Pro 3, it's rather amazing. I was just
expecting it to be a ultra-thin laptop, I had no idea how much I'd enjoy
the touch screen and stylus.
[...]

I picked one up, too, but I didn't buy it. can't justify that right now,
more's the pity.

My laptop is on it's last legs, and is no longer reliable enough for
business travel. I could have spent a few dollars less on a new laptop
than a Surface, but not much, and the price difference for the
form-factor was more than worth it.

(For me, in my circumstances, obviously!)

--
Some mistakes are too fun to make only once.

". . .winston" wrote in message
...
Alias wrote:
. . .winston wrote:
Alias wrote:

The evolution has already started, tablets and other smart devices will
continue to replace desktops in all markets.

Doesn't matter how it' used...docking port, attachable devices...the
smaller scale factor comes with portability and increasingly necessary
for all (consumer, smb, and enterprise).




I hope that means desktops will get even cheaper. I'm sick of my 18"
laptop because it's too ****ing small and a pain to upgrade and the wife
won't let me have the desktop we do have with three hard drives, Linux
on one, W8 on another and the third for storage.


Imo, prices may moderate slightly but I wouldn't expect too much since
profit margin and inflation (while currently low) may nullify any savings.
In fact, the opposite could occur - a smaller supply base with less
variation in options may increase pricing.

As a side, inflation only appears to be low. In the USA, the cost of food
and fuel was
removed from the inflation index during the Clinton administration. The
rate of inflation is higher than is being reported if you take the cost of
food and fuel into account and those two take up a large part of one's
income.

PAS wrote:
". . .winston" wrote in message
...
Alias wrote:
. . .winston wrote:
Alias wrote:

The evolution has already started, tablets and other smart devices will
continue to replace desktops in all markets.

Doesn't matter how it' used...docking port, attachable devices...the
smaller scale factor comes with portability and increasingly necessary
for all (consumer, smb, and enterprise).




I hope that means desktops will get even cheaper. I'm sick of my 18"
laptop because it's too ****ing small and a pain to upgrade and the wife
won't let me have the desktop we do have with three hard drives, Linux
on one, W8 on another and the third for storage.


Imo, prices may moderate slightly but I wouldn't expect too much since
profit margin and inflation (while currently low) may nullify any savings.
In fact, the opposite could occur - a smaller supply base with less
variation in options may increase pricing.

As a side, inflation only appears to be low. In the USA, the cost of food
and fuel was
removed from the inflation index during the Clinton administration. The
rate of inflation is higher than is being reported if you take the cost of
food and fuel into account and those two take up a large part of one's
income.




+1 That's true in other countries too.

--
Alias

On Tue, 29 Jul 2014 10:43:59 -0700, "Ken Blake, MVP"
wrote:


There are plenty of people who use laptops at home.


True. But I never understand why anyone uses a laptop in a situation
where he can use a desktop. Laptops cost more, are more vulnerable to
problems, are susceptible to being dropped and broken, are more
vulnerable to being stolen, are harder to repair, cost more to repair,
are much harder and more expensive to do hardware upgrades on, etc. As
far as I'm concerned, there are no advantages to laptops except for
their portability when you travel, and I always strongly recommend
against using a laptop at home.


I'm the only one who uses a desktop at home,
everyone else uses a laptop.



??? No you're not. I do, and I know many, many others who also do.

Or do you mean you're the only one *you* know who uses a desktop at
home? If so, you don't know many people.

My main computer at home is a desktop too and it's what I always
prefer to use unless I have to use something else. I have a nice huge
screen and can batter away all day on a proper heavy duty Cherry
keyboard that I can dismantle and clean if I spill anything on it,
temporarily replacing it with another one in less than a minute.
Replacing a keyboard on a laptop is like surgery (if you're lucky
enough that the keyboard is the only thing that's been affected).

Also, my current desktop (or "floortop" if we're being pedantic) has a
fast quad core CPU, lots of memory and an SSD, so I'm not frustratedly
drumming my fingers for several seconds every time I press a key or
click the mouse for something to happen. The laptop is quite fast too,
but the desktop's response is practically instant, the way modern
electronics should be.

Rod.

On Tue, 29 Jul 2014 10:43:59 -0700, Ken Blake, MVP wrote:

As far as I'm concerned, there are no advantages to laptops except
for their portability when you travel, and I always strongly
recommend against using a laptop at home.

Here we use mainly laptops, usually cheap professional grade ones
like Thinkpads that companies are replacing. Batteries are cheap and
easy to replace, if the machine dies just buy another for £100-£150.
Ebay always has plenty. This current laptop is a Dell Vostro
something-or-other with a great screen and keyboard, cost £120
including Win8 Pro. Not enough USB ports but who's complaining. We
used to like Asus eeePCs (901 etc.) but they are a bit out of date
with a 32 bit Atom processor. I don't strongly recommend anything,
no comebacks.