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Solution to browser hogs 100% CPU on Win7 64-bit 1GB RAM AMD Turion



 
 
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  #16  
Old February 1st 18, 11:14 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
J. P. Gilliver (John)[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,679
Default Solution to browser hogs 100% CPU on Win7 64-bit 1GB RAM AMD Turion

In message , ultred ragnusen
writes:
On Thu, 1 Feb 2018 03:09:44 +0000, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

Check RAM usage first.


I should have mentioned that I checked three things first, all of which
were consistent:
1. The CPU was at 100% whenever I browsed (more on that later)
2. The RAM is pretty much at 90% almost all the time (give or take)
3. The NETWORK isn't doing anything (but Windows update on the side)

My summary on the RAM is that it's certainly maxed out, but, it was maxed
out when the computer was born, and the browser couldn't have been
unusable.


I doubt that. It would have been pretty sluggish when new, if that was
the case, which seems unlikely.

The browser would just have been slow (but more on that below).

They have a bit perhaps, but the main thing that _has_ changed is the
average size of webpages - not so much images or text, but _vast_
amounts of code. IMO, anyway.


I agree and have more details, after looking at this for hours.

A. The worst browsers are the Chromium based browsers (by far!)
B. The number of tabs makes a huge difference (especially in Chrome!)


Well, I mostly use Firefox, and find the number of tabs there makes
quite a difference.

C. Yes. Some web pages, especially web forums, are CPU killers!


Turning off and/or blocking a lot of things helps there - certainly ad.s
(ABP or the other one), and probably a good hosts file.

To the extent that 1G of RAM isn't really
enough these days - even for XP, let alone 7. Do do the Task Manager
check.


The RAM is, as expected, "maxed out" at around 80% to 90% most of the time,
but my point is that all I want is to get the computer to browse like it
did when it was born - which is to say - to browse slowly - but not
impossibly.


(Is the HD light - assuming there is one - on a lot?) Remember it was
born as an XP machine, _and_ when web pages had far less script running.

FWIW, I run XP here, on a single core 1.3 GHz machine. It originally had
1G; I'd bought 2G (the most it can take), but didn't get round to
fitting it for some time, and noticed little difference when I did - but
in those days, was only using 7xx M according to task manager, so that's
not surprising. Now, with just Firefox 26 (granted, with about 30 tabs)
running, I'm usually around 1.4G used.

I think I made HUGE inroads to solving the problem by deleting all
Chromium-based browsers. Some opened nine (9) - yes - NINE processes, just
to open the "settings" page (Epic did that). But *all* the Chromium-based
browsers were memory hogs because they opened up separate processes.


(That's not necessarily the reason. A single process can use a lot of
CPU.)

So my conclusion is that, on an old no-name cheap WinXP-Win7 laptop with
little RAM, Chrome-baesed browsers are just out of the question.


I do run Chrome (the last one that will run on XP); I think it uses
about the same amount of RAM as Firefox does. (I haven't tweaked Chrome
as much as I have Firefox.)
[]
With Java & Avast & anything Google (e.g., Google Drive) removed, I can now
browse with Pale Moon in a way that does not redline the CPU all the time
such that any page doesn't take a minute or more to load.


Good. But I'd still get more RAM if you can - it'll cheer up the machine
no end. (Some years ago my brother had an XP laptop with 256M of RAM -
upping that made it like a new machine!)

At this point, it's barely usable - especially with only one tab open -
which I guess is how we did it in the olden days of WinXP.

Though as another has said, the possibility of blocked vents (or
in extremis a failed fan) _will_ slow down a CPU if it gets too hot; you
can easily check that by running something that monitors the assorted
built-in sensors. (I use SpeedFan - not using any of its fan-control
ability, just to monitor the sensors, but there are plenty of others.)


I saw Paul's suggestion where I didn't look at the fan speed but the fan is
definitely working as it's as loud as a freight train most of the time.


If it's noisy, that might well mean it's working hard to blow air
through narrowed channels somewhere.

I'll do something to clean vents (although they don't look blocked) and
I'll elevate the bottom so the ports are clear - and I'll load that
SpeedFan utility to check the fan speed and the CPU temperature.


Depending on what has been built into the mobo and whether SpeedFan has
drivers for the chips involved, it may find several temperatures it can
monitor: on this machine it finds "Core 0", which I presume is the
processor, "HD0", and two others, which I assume are other points on the
board. (Paul will probably suggest, especially if you tell us which
machine/board it is - Belarc Advisor is a good utility for finding out
that sort of thing.)

I guess if the CPU is throttled to half, then it would max out sooner at
that throttle point - is that what you're suggesting might be happening?


I think it would, though if it's getting close to the temperatures at
which it might throttle back, it's in danger of shutting down completely
to protect itself, which Windows tends not to like - and such
temperatures shorten the lives of other parts (I had a HD that stopped
suddenly). But this may not be happening - SpeedFan or similar should
tell you.

So I'd

o check the temperatures
o add more RAM

You might also consider going back to XP, though I did hear when 7 first
appeared that it _can_ be configured to be less demanding/more efficient
than XP. I don't know though. I have a 7 machine that is single core,
and has 3G RAM - seems to work OK, though not lightning fast (the
stickers imply it was originally Vista).

[I still have a W98 machine with 128M, which runs fine with Firefox 2,
but I only access one site with it, with up to about four tabs.]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

The fifth bestselling detail of all time: the Ford Transit. (RT/C4 2015-5-24.)
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  #17  
Old February 2nd 18, 04:36 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
ultred ragnusen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 248
Default Solution to browser hogs 100% CPU on Win7 64-bit 1GB RAM AMD Turion

Wolf K wrote:

1. The CPU was at 100% whenever I browsed (more on that later)
2. The RAM is pretty much at 90% almost all the time (give or take)
3. The NETWORK isn't doing anything (but Windows update on the side)


That means there's very little room for adding and removing OS/program
modules and data as needed.


I was wrong on the RAM percentage.

I installed SpeedFan and watched the CPU with a Chromium-baed browser,
which predictably hit 100% when in use and 0% when not, where the RAM in
Task Manager only hovered around 60% to 68% while the CPU temperature was
from about 151dF to 167dF in SpeedFan.

Everything is better though, now that I deleted all the Google stuff, all
the java stuff, all the updaters, and anything else I could, like Avast.

It still hits 100% every time I use a Chromium-based browser, but it is
barely useable. As someone said, it 'walks' but it won't run.

Here's a screenshot at 0%
https://s18.postimg.org/iuyuw3np5/image.jpg

And, a few moments away from that at 100%
https://s18.postimg.org/acpersjrd/100.jpg

The only thing that changed between them was the web browser.
  #18  
Old February 2nd 18, 04:41 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
ultred ragnusen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 248
Default Solution to browser hogs 100% CPU on Win7 64-bit 1GB RAM AMD Turion

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote:

Turning off and/or blocking a lot of things helps there - certainly ad.s
(ABP or the other one), and probably a good hosts file.


I googled for a "good hosts file" and found this "WINHELP" hosts file
http://winhelp2002.mvps.org/hosts.htm

I just installed it so I won't know if it works or not, so I thank you for
that suggestion. I already don't see some ads, so that's a bonus right
there.
  #19  
Old February 2nd 18, 06:29 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default Solution to browser hogs 100% CPU on Win7 64-bit 1GB RAM AMDTurion

ultred ragnusen wrote:
Wolf K wrote:

1. The CPU was at 100% whenever I browsed (more on that later)
2. The RAM is pretty much at 90% almost all the time (give or take)
3. The NETWORK isn't doing anything (but Windows update on the side)

That means there's very little room for adding and removing OS/program
modules and data as needed.


I was wrong on the RAM percentage.

I installed SpeedFan and watched the CPU with a Chromium-baed browser,
which predictably hit 100% when in use and 0% when not, where the RAM in
Task Manager only hovered around 60% to 68% while the CPU temperature was
from about 151dF to 167dF in SpeedFan.

Everything is better though, now that I deleted all the Google stuff, all
the java stuff, all the updaters, and anything else I could, like Avast.

It still hits 100% every time I use a Chromium-based browser, but it is
barely useable. As someone said, it 'walks' but it won't run.

Here's a screenshot at 0%
https://s18.postimg.org/iuyuw3np5/image.jpg

And, a few moments away from that at 100%
https://s18.postimg.org/acpersjrd/100.jpg

The only thing that changed between them was the web browser.


DWM is wasting CPU as well.

The chipsets back when the MT-30 was introduced, probably
don't have programmable shaders, and there's a good chance
a lot of the graphics stack is being software emulated.
And that's not helping matters.

My laptop has the same problem, ancient graphics subsystem,
and no way to fix the graphics. Graphics age faster than
CPUs do.

Paul
  #20  
Old February 2nd 18, 06:50 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
Mike S[_4_]
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Posts: 496
Default Solution to browser hogs 100% CPU on Win7 64-bit 1GB RAM AMDTurion

On 2/1/2018 7:36 PM, ultred ragnusen wrote:
Wolf K wrote:

1. The CPU was at 100% whenever I browsed (more on that later)
2. The RAM is pretty much at 90% almost all the time (give or take)
3. The NETWORK isn't doing anything (but Windows update on the side)


That means there's very little room for adding and removing OS/program
modules and data as needed.


I was wrong on the RAM percentage.

I installed SpeedFan and watched the CPU with a Chromium-baed browser,
which predictably hit 100% when in use and 0% when not, where the RAM in
Task Manager only hovered around 60% to 68% while the CPU temperature was
from about 151dF to 167dF in SpeedFan.

snip

That seems a little hot. Have you removed dust form the fan and heat
sink, or replaced the heat sink compound in the last year or two?

  #21  
Old February 2nd 18, 08:32 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
ultred ragnusen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 248
Default Solution to browser hogs 100% CPU on Win7 64-bit 1GB RAM AMD Turion

Mike S wrote:

That seems a little hot. Have you removed dust form the fan and heat
sink, or replaced the heat sink compound in the last year or two?


I never did anything.

I don't know how hot the CPU should be, and I've only used SpeedFan for a
few hours, but it's pretty consistent right now around 150dF to 165dF.
  #22  
Old February 2nd 18, 08:41 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
ultred ragnusen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 248
Default Solution to browser hogs 100% CPU on Win7 64-bit 1GB RAM AMD Turion

Wolf K wrote:

It's best to get a matched set. IMO less at than 40 pounds for 2GB,
upgrading that old laptop is a bargain.

That being said, your strategy of eliminating as many background
processes as possible is a good one.


I will look for RAM.
In addition to the background processes, and the HOSTS file that someone
suggested, I went to a web forum that I frequent and was appalled at all
the web sites it tries to visit.

To catch them, I put Irfanview on 1/2 second capture, and then scrolled
through the results. Here are the web pages that it *waited* to load in a
single session - none of which were the web site I was logged into!

These are in order of occurrence.
0.0.0.0 ap.lijit.com
0.0.0.0 securepubads.g.doubleclick.net
0.0.0.0 loadus.exelator.com
0.0.0.0 as.casalemedia.com
0.0.0.0 adservice.google.com
0.0.0.0 www.google-analytics.com
0.0.0.0 optimized-by.rubiconproject.com
0.0.0.0 beacon-us-iad3.rubiconproject.com
0.0.0.0 googleads.g.doubleclick.com
0.0.0.0 googleads.g.doubleclick.net
0.0.0.0 api.viglink.com
0.0.0.0 pagead2.googlesyndication.com
0.0.0.0 www.googleapis.com
0.0.0.0 bcp.crwdcntrl.net
0.0.0.0 ad.crwdcntrl.net
0.0.0.0 track.adform.net
0.0.0.0 cdn.viglink.com
0.0.0.0 b.scorecardresearch.com
0.0.0.0 magnetic.t.domdex.com
0.0.0.0 adclick.g.doubleclick.net
0.0.0.0 ib.adnxs.com
0.0.0.0 garage.bimmerfest.com
0.0.0.0 i.ytimg.com
0.0.0.0 184.72.239.143
0.0.0.0 d1r55yzuc1b1bw.cloudfront.net
0.0.0.0 cse.google.com
0.0.0.0 tags.crwdcntrl.net
0.0.0.0 a.tribalfusion.com
0.0.0.0 ib.adnxs.com
0.0.0.0 api.verticalscope.com
0.0.0.0 fonts.gstatic.com
0.0.0.0 pxl.connexity.net
0.0.0.0 v12group.com
0.0.0.0 mid.rkdms.com
0.0.0.0 aa.agkn.com
0.0.0.0 www.googletagservices.com

These 36 are only the ones that I had to wait for because a half second
would otherwise be too slow to capture the notification, so we can assume
about 50 web sites are consulted with each page view on this web forum.


  #23  
Old February 2nd 18, 10:29 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
ultred ragnusen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 248
Default Solution to browser hogs 100% CPU on Win7 64-bit 1GB RAM AMD Turion

ultred ragnusen wrote:

To catch them, I put Irfanview on 1/2 second capture, and then scrolled
through the results. Here are the web pages that it *waited* to load in a
single session - none of which were the web site I was logged into!

These are in order of occurrence.


OMG. There are more than 75 sites which load when I go to the web forum.
I just compiled this list by opening two browsers (to slow the machine
down) and then capturing a spot on the screen in Irfanview at 0.3 seconds
for 500 screenshots.

Here's what it captured in that time frame without me moving the mouse or
changing the page!

0.0.0.0 15.taboola.com
0.0.0.0 184.72.239.143
0.0.0.0 a.tribalfusion.com
0.0.0.0 aa.agkn.com
0.0.0.0 acds.prod.vidible.tv
0.0.0.0 ad.crwdcntrl.net
0.0.0.0 adclick.g.doubleclick.net
0.0.0.0 ads.adaptv.advertising.com
0.0.0.0 ads.pubmatic.com
0.0.0.0 adserver.adtechus.com
0.0.0.0 adservice.google.com
0.0.0.0 ap.lijit.com
0.0.0.0 api.verticalscope.com
0.0.0.0 api.viglink.com
0.0.0.0 as.casalemedia.com
0.0.0.0 b.scorecardresearch.com
0.0.0.0 bcp.crwdcntrl.net
0.0.0.0 beacon-us-iad2.rubiconproject.com
0.0.0.0 beacon-us-iad3.rubiconproject.com
0.0.0.0 cdn-ssl.vidible.tv
0.0.0.0 cdn.digitru.st
0.0.0.0 cdn.taboola.com
0.0.0.0 cdn.viglink.com
0.0.0.0 cm.g.doubleclick.net
0.0.0.0 cse.google.com
0.0.0.0 csi.gstatic.com
0.0.0.0 d1r55yzuc1b1bw.cloudfront.net
0.0.0.0 dz2fz0bgyq9tn.cloudfront.net
0.0.0.0 fonts.googleapis.com
0.0.0.0 fonts.gstatic.com
0.0.0.0 g2.gumgum.com
0.0.0.0 garage.bimmerfest.com
0.0.0.0 googleads.g.doubleclick.com
0.0.0.0 googleads.g.doubleclick.net
0.0.0.0 i.liadm.com
0.0.0.0 i.ytimg.com
0.0.0.0 ib.adnxs.com
0.0.0.0 images.taboola.com
0.0.0.0 imprnjmp.taboola.com
0.0.0.0 js.gumgum.com
0.0.0.0 load77.exelator.com
0.0.0.0 loadus.exelator.com
0.0.0.0 magnetic.t.domdex.com
0.0.0.0 match.adsrvr.org
0.0.0.0 match.taboola.com
0.0.0.0 mid.rkdms.com
0.0.0.0 ml314.com
0.0.0.0 opps.taboola.com
0.0.0.0 optimized-by.rubiconproject.com
0.0.0.0 pagead2.googlesyndication.com
0.0.0.0 pixel.tapad.com
0.0.0.0 px.moatads.com
0.0.0.0 pxl.connexity.net
0.0.0.0 s1.adform.net
0.0.0.0 secure-ads.pictela.net
0.0.0.0 securepubads.g.doubleclick.net
0.0.0.0 syn.search.spotxchange.com
0.0.0.0 sync.search.spotxch.com
0.0.0.0 tags.bluekai.com
0.0.0.0 tags.crwdcntrl.net
0.0.0.0 tap2-cdn.rubiconproject.com
0.0.0.0 tpc.googlesyndication.com
0.0.0.0 track.adform.net
0.0.0.0 trc.taboola.com
0.0.0.0 trk.vidible.tv
0.0.0.0 v12group.com
0.0.0.0 vid.pubmatic.com
0.0.0.0 vidstat.taboola.com
0.0.0.0 vpaid.pubmatic.com
0.0.0.0 wf.taboola.com
0.0.0.0 www.google-analytics.com
0.0.0.0 www.googleapis.com
0.0.0.0 www.googletagmanager.com
0.0.0.0 www.googletagservices.com
0.0.0.0 www.storygize.net
0.0.0.0 x.skimresources.com
  #24  
Old February 2nd 18, 10:42 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
tesla sTinker
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 134
Default Solution to browser hogs 100% CPU on Win7 64-bit 1GB RAM AMDTurion



On 1/31/2018 8:40 AM, ultred ragnusen scribbled:
Did browsers alwasys run so slowly in the past, and if not, then what did
they do to make browsers so slow - but more useful - what browser will run
on this machine which I was given as a freebie as a spare laptop.

Originally WindowsXP according to the sticker on the faceplate.
Currently Windows7 Ultimate SP1 (I updated it a few days ago to current)
AMD Turion 64, 1.61GHZ
1GB RAM, paging is automatic (currently at 1601MB)
37.1GB HDD (6.46GB free)

I first noticed Chrome was hogging 100$ of the CPU with multiple processes,
as was Internet Explorer. I googled for the best browsers for older
machines, and will try Epic, Firefox, Midori, Palemoon, and Iron.

The question is only one of how did we put up with such horrid speeds (60
seconds per page or worse) in the past?

Probably we didn't - it's probably that browsers got fat - but that leaves
the question then of an un-fat browser that works on an older Win7 machine
with only 1GB of RAM.

Any suggestions on browsers (other than buy a new machine)?


The whole issue about browsers is so screwed up.
They changed the formatting of programming, moved the positions
is what they did, so when you use an older browser and a newly
programmed webpage, the old browsers cannot decide where to put the
data on the pages themselves, which makes them run real slow and screw up.
We are finding only firefox quantum can keep up with old web pages and
new ones. The rest, are a nightmare, including the MS explorer 11. We
are using old Safari, Opera 12, and also explorer 9, and the whole issue
behind most of the battle, is the moved positions. Notice can be made
if using an old programmed webpage that the thing actually has moved to
the right all its data, and will not center up on the new browsers
anymore. This is all a crock of **** of the corporate world,
that they claim, you have to have the new one to view their webpages
with, or they will block you from loading the pages. Funny, the normal
websites of normal people will not block you. Nothing like a rotten
crook to steal your loot by running trackers on you through the new
browsers. Firefox will not let them do that. Its the only one I know
of that keeps to their guns about privacy.
  #25  
Old February 2nd 18, 02:14 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default Solution to browser hogs 100% CPU on Win7 64-bit 1GB RAM AMDTurion

ultred ragnusen wrote:
ultred ragnusen wrote:

To catch them, I put Irfanview on 1/2 second capture, and then scrolled
through the results. Here are the web pages that it *waited* to load in a
single session - none of which were the web site I was logged into!

These are in order of occurrence.


OMG. There are more than 75 sites which load when I go to the web forum.
I just compiled this list by opening two browsers (to slow the machine
down) and then capturing a spot on the screen in Irfanview at 0.3 seconds
for 500 screenshots.

Here's what it captured in that time frame without me moving the mouse or
changing the page!

0.0.0.0 15.taboola.com
0.0.0.0 184.72.239.143
0.0.0.0 a.tribalfusion.com
0.0.0.0 aa.agkn.com
0.0.0.0 acds.prod.vidible.tv
0.0.0.0 ad.crwdcntrl.net
0.0.0.0 adclick.g.doubleclick.net
0.0.0.0 ads.adaptv.advertising.com
0.0.0.0 ads.pubmatic.com
0.0.0.0 adserver.adtechus.com
0.0.0.0 adservice.google.com
0.0.0.0 ap.lijit.com
0.0.0.0 api.verticalscope.com
0.0.0.0 api.viglink.com
0.0.0.0 as.casalemedia.com
0.0.0.0 b.scorecardresearch.com
0.0.0.0 bcp.crwdcntrl.net
0.0.0.0 beacon-us-iad2.rubiconproject.com
0.0.0.0 beacon-us-iad3.rubiconproject.com
0.0.0.0 cdn-ssl.vidible.tv
0.0.0.0 cdn.digitru.st
0.0.0.0 cdn.taboola.com
0.0.0.0 cdn.viglink.com
0.0.0.0 cm.g.doubleclick.net
0.0.0.0 cse.google.com
0.0.0.0 csi.gstatic.com
0.0.0.0 d1r55yzuc1b1bw.cloudfront.net
0.0.0.0 dz2fz0bgyq9tn.cloudfront.net
0.0.0.0 fonts.googleapis.com
0.0.0.0 fonts.gstatic.com
0.0.0.0 g2.gumgum.com
0.0.0.0 garage.bimmerfest.com
0.0.0.0 googleads.g.doubleclick.com
0.0.0.0 googleads.g.doubleclick.net
0.0.0.0 i.liadm.com
0.0.0.0 i.ytimg.com
0.0.0.0 ib.adnxs.com
0.0.0.0 images.taboola.com
0.0.0.0 imprnjmp.taboola.com
0.0.0.0 js.gumgum.com
0.0.0.0 load77.exelator.com
0.0.0.0 loadus.exelator.com
0.0.0.0 magnetic.t.domdex.com
0.0.0.0 match.adsrvr.org
0.0.0.0 match.taboola.com
0.0.0.0 mid.rkdms.com
0.0.0.0 ml314.com
0.0.0.0 opps.taboola.com
0.0.0.0 optimized-by.rubiconproject.com
0.0.0.0 pagead2.googlesyndication.com
0.0.0.0 pixel.tapad.com
0.0.0.0 px.moatads.com
0.0.0.0 pxl.connexity.net
0.0.0.0 s1.adform.net
0.0.0.0 secure-ads.pictela.net
0.0.0.0 securepubads.g.doubleclick.net
0.0.0.0 syn.search.spotxchange.com
0.0.0.0 sync.search.spotxch.com
0.0.0.0 tags.bluekai.com
0.0.0.0 tags.crwdcntrl.net
0.0.0.0 tap2-cdn.rubiconproject.com
0.0.0.0 tpc.googlesyndication.com
0.0.0.0 track.adform.net
0.0.0.0 trc.taboola.com
0.0.0.0 trk.vidible.tv
0.0.0.0 v12group.com
0.0.0.0 vid.pubmatic.com
0.0.0.0 vidstat.taboola.com
0.0.0.0 vpaid.pubmatic.com
0.0.0.0 wf.taboola.com
0.0.0.0 www.google-analytics.com
0.0.0.0 www.googleapis.com
0.0.0.0 www.googletagmanager.com
0.0.0.0 www.googletagservices.com
0.0.0.0 www.storygize.net
0.0.0.0 x.skimresources.com


The very last one is related to WordPress.

https://en.forums.wordpress.com/topi...imresourcescom

Paul
  #26  
Old February 2nd 18, 04:06 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Paul[_32_]
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Default Solution to browser hogs 100% CPU on Win7 64-bit 1GB RAM AMDTurion

Wolf K wrote:
On 2018-02-02 02:32, ultred ragnusen wrote:
Mike S wrote:

That seems a little hot. Have you removed dust form the fan and heat
sink, or replaced the heat sink compound in the last year or two?


I never did anything.

I don't know how hot the CPU should be, and I've only used SpeedFan for a
few hours, but it's pretty consistent right now around 150dF to 165dF.


IMO the CPU should be "warm", ie, about blood-temperature.


The CPU package has a max temperature which is close
to the boiling point of water.

High power laptops are more likely to reach such temperatures,
if you run Prime95 torture test or the like. This is a tradeoff
between fan speed and noise level, versus achieving a wide
margin on temps.

The silicon die itself, could probably take around 135C
long term. The package around it is called "organic" as
opposed to the older "ceramic" packaging. A switch to
organic saved money, but reduced the max temperature
for safety. In other words, the packaging around the
CPU die gets "soft" if the CPU were to get too hot.

And this is also why the CPU has THERMTRIP, which should cut
the power before anything bad happens.

The condition before that happens is handled by "throttling".
THERMTRIP and throttling might be separated by about 20C
or so. Hitting THERMTRIP implies the fan stopped spinning,
or the heatsink clips came off, and so on.

Back in the Athlon days, a sensor was placed under the CPU
socket. It had a long reaction time. If the heatsink fell
off an Athlon, the CPU die would incinerate, before the
sensor went off. And as well, the sensor was "software based".
The CPU crashes at high temperature, before it has time
to read the sensor and realize the temperature was spiking.

This changed in the THERMTRIP era. The sensing is done
purely in hardware, has a simple threshold, and reacts quickly.
The sensor is on the silicon die itself. This allows a CPU
to shut down, before it is damaged. Even if the heatsink
falls off (a clamp snaps), it can still kill the power
in time. THERMTRIP gates PS_ON#.

An example of something with less exemplary protection,
is the video card. If the fan stops spinning on a video
card, the temperature rises until the plastic fan parts
start to melt. The die gets hot enough to damage it and
prevent future correct operation. And when you take it
apart, you can see thermal damage. And all because
the fan stopped spinning. It would cost, oh, about
a dollar to prevent that from happening. Just about
every big modern piece of silicon, has a substrate diode
for temperature monitoring, even if it is only
intended for lab work.

*******

The communal knowledge at the time, for Athlon, was
65C was the recommended top operating die temperature.
If you were running Prime95, and the die temperature
was going over 65C, you were supposed to go out and
buy a larger heatsink. But some other processors
are operated "within an inch of their lives" - examples
being little $17 processors in tablets, that lack
cooling fans, and they use the chassis as a heatsink.
Any prolonged CPU usage on those, leaves them "cruising
in throttle country" and you can see the temperature
bumping it's head on an invisible line.

Whereas desktops with a cubic foot of copper and aluminum,
less so. My other machine, the silicon die cruises around
40-45C. The VCore regulator overheats, before the CPU does :-(
(I would have to make a custom heatsink to fix this,
and it would also mean weeks of downtime until I perfected
a solution. There might not be any mounting holes...
Small quantities of TIMs cost a fortune. We had a roll
of TIM material once, that the guys used to toss around
in the lab, that cost $500 per roll.)

[Available in sheets and rolls, for a sandwich with the heatsink]

http://www.teknational.com/thermal/30/index.html

When I bought my last motherboard, that's the one thing
I overlooked, and got screwed on. Too small of a VCore heatsink.
And even a high motherboard price, does not guarantee an
adequate design.

Paul
 




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