A Windows XP help forum. PCbanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » PCbanter forum » Microsoft Windows XP » Windows Service Pack 2
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

XP SP2



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old September 28th 04, 03:07 PM
Mike H
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default XP SP2

Back in the days of DOS, software developers often used memory addresses
that they shouldn't have in order to make their software run better..
nothing has changed.. SP2 has been out in beta form long enough for 3rd
party software developers to get their act together..


"Wislu Plethota" wrote in message
...

-----Original Message-----

"Wislu Plethora"

wrote in message
...

-----Original Message-----
Some programs have problems because they were poorly
written taking advantage in the vulnerabilities Windows
plugged in SP-2.
snip

Would you mind taking a moment to translate this into
English so we can understand it? Can you give an example
of a "poorly written" program? By "poorly written" do

you
mean programs that were written for the platform as it
was originally designed by MS? Wasn't XP the "poorly
written" program?


Nope.



You don't have a clue, do you? Do you understand the
implications of what Jupiter is saying? He says that many
SP2 problems are the result of "poorly written" third-
party programs that were "written [to take]advantage [of]
the vulnerabilities" in XP that were "plugged" by SP2.
So do I expect that a monstrously complex piece of work
like XP should be bug-free? Certainly not. But remember-
almost all of the "vulnerabilities" SP2 is intended to
patch were discovered by sources outside of Microsoft, and
Microsoft did nothing about them until those warnings came
and not before there was time for miscreants to exploit
them. But what Jupiter is saying--and he's not smart
enough to realize what an indictment of MS it is--is that
many of those "vulnerabilities" were well known in the
development community to the extent that programmers were
able to take advantage of them in writing their programs.
But if they were common knowledge among developers, why
didn't Microsoft know about them, and plug them *before*
they caused problems?

The facts are clear: XP was full of holes when first
shipped. Software developers designed programs to run on
the platform as *it* was designed. This is nothing more
or less than prudent development practice, so Jupiter is
hitting below the belt when he refers to "poorly written"
programs being a cause of SP2 problems. If what Jupiter
says is true, then there should be no need for SP2 at
this point, as Microsoft, being aware that holes existed,
could have done the patching *before* the holes were
exploited. The alternative is that Jupiter has no idea
wtf he's talking about. You decide.



Ads
  #17  
Old September 28th 04, 03:39 PM
Wislu Plethora
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default XP SP2


-----Original Message-----
Back in the days of DOS, software developers often used

memory addresses
that they shouldn't have in order to make their software

run better..
nothing has changed.. SP2 has been out in beta form long

enough for 3rd
party software developers to get their act together..


Dumb and dumberer. Many 3rd party developers *did* take
the opportunity to update, and it was an expense that
they shouldn't have had to bear, because their original
code was COMPLIANT with the original platform. We now
have oafish users who are totally clueless when it comes
to the idea of software patches who have AU turned on,
trust in MS and install it, only to find out that some
of their programs aren't working. Shame on them for their
ignorance, but the fact remains that ALL of these problems
have a single source, and it's not 3rd party developers,
nor stupid users, nor spyware.

  #18  
Old September 28th 04, 06:52 PM
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default XP SP2

As long as you think "ALL of these problems have a single source", you
will probably never see the whole picture.
No one said the fault is exclusively the 3rd party application.
But it is also not exclusively Microsoft's.

People have been demanding more secure and better written code of
Microsoft, well now it came.
Do you also go to the 3rd party manufacturers that have problems and
demand the same from them?
If not why not?
Is your solution to break Windows XP and make all other applications
work at all costs?

The manufacturers have had many months to see if they had a problem.
Some worked it out and had information available for their customers
when needed.
Others snubbed their customers, blaming Microsoft ignoring the fact
they could have been working the issue and have a solution or at least
near a solution at this time..
And still others no longer exist.

Microsoft and others listed applications known to have issues to help
the customers have better information.

If we are to have secure computing, it is going to take great effort
amongst the development community, not just Microsoft.
The users will also have to learn safe computing practices.
If you expect Microsoft to accomplish secure computing alone, prepare
for very unsafe computing.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/


"Wislu Plethora" wrote in
message ...
Dumb and dumberer. Many 3rd party developers *did* take
the opportunity to update, and it was an expense that
they shouldn't have had to bear, because their original
code was COMPLIANT with the original platform. We now
have oafish users who are totally clueless when it comes
to the idea of software patches who have AU turned on,
trust in MS and install it, only to find out that some
of their programs aren't working. Shame on them for their
ignorance, but the fact remains that ALL of these problems
have a single source, and it's not 3rd party developers,
nor stupid users, nor spyware.



  #19  
Old September 28th 04, 08:21 PM
Wislu Plethora
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default XP SP2


-----Original Message-----
As long as you think "ALL of these problems have a single

source", you
will probably never see the whole picture.
No one said the fault is exclusively the 3rd party

application.
But it is also not exclusively Microsoft's.

People have been demanding more secure and better written

code of
Microsoft, well now it came.
Do you also go to the 3rd party manufacturers that have

problems and
demand the same from them?
If not why not?
Is your solution to break Windows XP and make all other

applications
work at all costs?

The manufacturers have had many months to see if they had

a problem.
Some worked it out and had information available for

their customers
when needed.
Others snubbed their customers, blaming Microsoft

ignoring the fact
they could have been working the issue and have a

solution or at least
near a solution at this time..
And still others no longer exist.

Microsoft and others listed applications known to have

issues to help
the customers have better information.

If we are to have secure computing, it is going to take

great effort
amongst the development community, not just Microsoft.
The users will also have to learn safe computing

practices.
If you expect Microsoft to accomplish secure computing

alone, prepare
for very unsafe computing.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/



As usual, you're completely avoiding the issue. Microsoft
has NEVER been concerned about secure computing until
things blow up. Remember--it was your "poorly written
code" statement in which you tried to shift blame to
developers who had commited the heinous crime of writing
programs that work on the target platform using the
specifications and architectuire they were given to work
with. You still haven't explained how it is that all of
this code was written to take advantage
of "vulnerabilities" in XP without Microsoft knowing about
the vulnerabilities, and without Microsoft closing the
holes before the miscreants could crawl through them.
  #20  
Old September 28th 04, 09:06 PM
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default XP SP2

No one suggest "heinous crime", that is entirely your idea.
As for shifting the blame, you need to read my posts again.
There is blame to go around.
Once you get the idea there is blame on many areas including the users
as well, you will start to get it.
But as long as you believe it is all Microsoft and you are blind to
the rest...

Mike gave an answer to your question.
Software was often designed to give the web developer or program
writer almost unlimited rights to what they wanted to show you.
This was largely at a time when security was not much of an issue.
Progress means change from ALL concerned, not just Microsoft.
Those unwilling to change have a choice of not updating.
Microsoft does not impose the choice on anyone, the users have and
make the choice for themselves.

People have been demanding more security.
If you choose to ignore it, that is your business.
If you choose to go with SP-2, you also choose to do what it takes to
get your computer working properly.
You can also choose another operating system, there are many choices
there as well.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/


"Wislu Plethora" wrote in
message ...
As usual, you're completely avoiding the issue. Microsoft
has NEVER been concerned about secure computing until
things blow up. Remember--it was your "poorly written
code" statement in which you tried to shift blame to
developers who had commited the heinous crime of writing
programs that work on the target platform using the
specifications and architectuire they were given to work
with. You still haven't explained how it is that all of
this code was written to take advantage
of "vulnerabilities" in XP without Microsoft knowing about
the vulnerabilities, and without Microsoft closing the
holes before the miscreants could crawl through them.



  #21  
Old September 28th 04, 10:48 PM
Ron Reaugh
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default XP SP2

Wacko.

"Wislu Plethora" wrote in message
...

-----Original Message-----
SP2 works fine for the great majority of folks.


What an idiotic statement. It's like telling a person
who's on fire that the vast majority of people don't
burn to death.



  #22  
Old September 28th 04, 10:49 PM
Ron Reaugh
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default XP SP2

Wacko squared. Anyone can read the thread for themselves.

"Wislu Plethota" wrote in message
...

-----Original Message-----

"Wislu Plethora"

wrote in message
...

-----Original Message-----
Some programs have problems because they were poorly
written taking advantage in the vulnerabilities Windows
plugged in SP-2.
snip

Would you mind taking a moment to translate this into
English so we can understand it? Can you give an example
of a "poorly written" program? By "poorly written" do

you
mean programs that were written for the platform as it
was originally designed by MS? Wasn't XP the "poorly
written" program?


Nope.



You don't have a clue, do you? Do you understand the
implications of what Jupiter is saying? He says that many
SP2 problems are the result of "poorly written" third-
party programs that were "written [to take]advantage [of]
the vulnerabilities" in XP that were "plugged" by SP2.
So do I expect that a monstrously complex piece of work
like XP should be bug-free? Certainly not. But remember-
almost all of the "vulnerabilities" SP2 is intended to
patch were discovered by sources outside of Microsoft, and
Microsoft did nothing about them until those warnings came
and not before there was time for miscreants to exploit
them. But what Jupiter is saying--and he's not smart
enough to realize what an indictment of MS it is--is that
many of those "vulnerabilities" were well known in the
development community to the extent that programmers were
able to take advantage of them in writing their programs.
But if they were common knowledge among developers, why
didn't Microsoft know about them, and plug them *before*
they caused problems?

The facts are clear: XP was full of holes when first
shipped. Software developers designed programs to run on
the platform as *it* was designed. This is nothing more
or less than prudent development practice, so Jupiter is
hitting below the belt when he refers to "poorly written"
programs being a cause of SP2 problems. If what Jupiter
says is true, then there should be no need for SP2 at
this point, as Microsoft, being aware that holes existed,
could have done the patching *before* the holes were
exploited. The alternative is that Jupiter has no idea
wtf he's talking about. You decide.



  #23  
Old September 28th 04, 10:49 PM
Ron Reaugh
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default XP SP2


"Mike H" wrote in message
.. .
Back in the days of DOS, software developers often used memory addresses
that they shouldn't have in order to make their software run better..
nothing has changed.. SP2 has been out in beta form long enough for 3rd
party software developers to get their act together..


Right. Most folks find that SP2 works just fine.

"Wislu Plethota" wrote in message
...

-----Original Message-----

"Wislu Plethora"

wrote in message
...

-----Original Message-----
Some programs have problems because they were poorly
written taking advantage in the vulnerabilities Windows
plugged in SP-2.
snip

Would you mind taking a moment to translate this into
English so we can understand it? Can you give an example
of a "poorly written" program? By "poorly written" do

you
mean programs that were written for the platform as it
was originally designed by MS? Wasn't XP the "poorly
written" program?

Nope.



You don't have a clue, do you? Do you understand the
implications of what Jupiter is saying? He says that many
SP2 problems are the result of "poorly written" third-
party programs that were "written [to take]advantage [of]
the vulnerabilities" in XP that were "plugged" by SP2.
So do I expect that a monstrously complex piece of work
like XP should be bug-free? Certainly not. But remember-
almost all of the "vulnerabilities" SP2 is intended to
patch were discovered by sources outside of Microsoft, and
Microsoft did nothing about them until those warnings came
and not before there was time for miscreants to exploit
them. But what Jupiter is saying--and he's not smart
enough to realize what an indictment of MS it is--is that
many of those "vulnerabilities" were well known in the
development community to the extent that programmers were
able to take advantage of them in writing their programs.
But if they were common knowledge among developers, why
didn't Microsoft know about them, and plug them *before*
they caused problems?

The facts are clear: XP was full of holes when first
shipped. Software developers designed programs to run on
the platform as *it* was designed. This is nothing more
or less than prudent development practice, so Jupiter is
hitting below the belt when he refers to "poorly written"
programs being a cause of SP2 problems. If what Jupiter
says is true, then there should be no need for SP2 at
this point, as Microsoft, being aware that holes existed,
could have done the patching *before* the holes were
exploited. The alternative is that Jupiter has no idea
wtf he's talking about. You decide.





  #24  
Old September 28th 04, 10:50 PM
Ron Reaugh
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default XP SP2

Go away.

"Wislu Plethora" wrote in message
...

-----Original Message-----
Back in the days of DOS, software developers often used

memory addresses
that they shouldn't have in order to make their software

run better..
nothing has changed.. SP2 has been out in beta form long

enough for 3rd
party software developers to get their act together..


Dumb and dumberer. Many 3rd party developers *did* take
the opportunity to update, and it was an expense that
they shouldn't have had to bear, because their original
code was COMPLIANT with the original platform. We now
have oafish users who are totally clueless when it comes
to the idea of software patches who have AU turned on,
trust in MS and install it, only to find out that some
of their programs aren't working. Shame on them for their
ignorance, but the fact remains that ALL of these problems
have a single source, and it's not 3rd party developers,
nor stupid users, nor spyware.



  #25  
Old September 28th 04, 10:51 PM
Ron Reaugh
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default XP SP2

Stop trolling.

"Wislu Plethora" wrote in message


  #26  
Old September 29th 04, 02:07 AM
Nathan McNulty
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default XP SP2

Personally, I think this whole thread has gone to crap, but I wanted to
note that MS releases their supposed SDK's and DDK's to developers to
work with. You work with this and develop your software based on what
MS has provided. That is the best you can do since MS hasn't released
their source code for anyone to integrate their products the way they
would like to. Also, the fault lies with most software developers
(which includes MS) who try to save time and money by writing quick code
instead of strong code.

----
Nathan McNulty


Jupiter Jones [MVP] wrote:
No one suggest "heinous crime", that is entirely your idea.
As for shifting the blame, you need to read my posts again.
There is blame to go around.
Once you get the idea there is blame on many areas including the users
as well, you will start to get it.
But as long as you believe it is all Microsoft and you are blind to
the rest...

Mike gave an answer to your question.
Software was often designed to give the web developer or program
writer almost unlimited rights to what they wanted to show you.
This was largely at a time when security was not much of an issue.
Progress means change from ALL concerned, not just Microsoft.
Those unwilling to change have a choice of not updating.
Microsoft does not impose the choice on anyone, the users have and
make the choice for themselves.

People have been demanding more security.
If you choose to ignore it, that is your business.
If you choose to go with SP-2, you also choose to do what it takes to
get your computer working properly.
You can also choose another operating system, there are many choices
there as well.

  #27  
Old September 29th 04, 04:14 AM
Len
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default XP SP2

You are becoming rather tedious... you do have another life somewhere don't
you. Please go their and enjoy it. We are certainly not enjoying you!

Fed up with wasted bandwidth,
Len

"Wislu Plethora" wrote in message
...

-----Original Message-----
As long as you think "ALL of these problems have a single

source", you
will probably never see the whole picture.
No one said the fault is exclusively the 3rd party

application.
But it is also not exclusively Microsoft's.

People have been demanding more secure and better written

code of
Microsoft, well now it came.
Do you also go to the 3rd party manufacturers that have

problems and
demand the same from them?
If not why not?
Is your solution to break Windows XP and make all other

applications
work at all costs?

The manufacturers have had many months to see if they had

a problem.
Some worked it out and had information available for

their customers
when needed.
Others snubbed their customers, blaming Microsoft

ignoring the fact
they could have been working the issue and have a

solution or at least
near a solution at this time..
And still others no longer exist.

Microsoft and others listed applications known to have

issues to help
the customers have better information.

If we are to have secure computing, it is going to take

great effort
amongst the development community, not just Microsoft.
The users will also have to learn safe computing

practices.
If you expect Microsoft to accomplish secure computing

alone, prepare
for very unsafe computing.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/



As usual, you're completely avoiding the issue. Microsoft
has NEVER been concerned about secure computing until
things blow up. Remember--it was your "poorly written
code" statement in which you tried to shift blame to
developers who had commited the heinous crime of writing
programs that work on the target platform using the
specifications and architectuire they were given to work
with. You still haven't explained how it is that all of
this code was written to take advantage
of "vulnerabilities" in XP without Microsoft knowing about
the vulnerabilities, and without Microsoft closing the
holes before the miscreants could crawl through them.



  #28  
Old September 29th 04, 11:22 AM
Frank
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default XP SP2

Juniper you are preaching to the choir. Most of this drivel
is composed by people who have VCR's and clocks blinking
around the house, cannot assemble their children's toys at
Christmas time, and don't regularly change the oil in their
automobiles. This dumbing down and finger pointing
was heavily pushed in the 1980's. These posts are the
results.

"Jupiter Jones [MVP]" wrote in message
...
No one suggest "heinous crime", that is entirely your idea.
As for shifting the blame, you need to read my posts again.
There is blame to go around.
Once you get the idea there is blame on many areas including the
users as well, you will start to get it.
But as long as you believe it is all Microsoft and you are blind to
the rest...

Mike gave an answer to your question.
Software was often designed to give the web developer or program
writer almost unlimited rights to what they wanted to show you.
This was largely at a time when security was not much of an issue.
Progress means change from ALL concerned, not just Microsoft.
Those unwilling to change have a choice of not updating.
Microsoft does not impose the choice on anyone, the users have and
make the choice for themselves.

People have been demanding more security.
If you choose to ignore it, that is your business.
If you choose to go with SP-2, you also choose to do what it takes
to get your computer working properly.
You can also choose another operating system, there are many choices
there as well.


"Wislu Plethora" wrote in
message ...
As usual, you're completely avoiding the issue. Microsoft
has NEVER been concerned about secure computing until
things blow up. Remember--it was your "poorly written
code" statement in which you tried to shift blame to
developers who had commited the heinous crime of writing
programs that work on the target platform using the
specifications and architectuire they were given to work
with. You still haven't explained how it is that all of
this code was written to take advantage
of "vulnerabilities" in XP without Microsoft knowing about
the vulnerabilities, and without Microsoft closing the
holes before the miscreants could crawl through them.



 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What is SP2 doing - apart from trashing everybody's PC?? Hugh Windows Service Pack 2 41 September 25th 04 06:45 PM
SP2 and IE 6 Error message on first page PA Bear General XP issues or comments 0 September 23rd 04 07:47 AM
some clues to SP2 Behavior Gene Murphy General XP issues or comments 0 September 21st 04 12:19 AM
Has SP2 been issued by MS yet? tom-islander Windows Service Pack 2 4 September 6th 04 12:07 AM
SP2 install delay and other mysteries Papa Windows Service Pack 2 4 August 30th 04 05:55 PM






All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:11 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 PCbanter.
The comments are property of their posters.