Recommend data recovery company?

Good day.

Got a 15 years old WD IDE hard drive, that was showing ZERO problems in
SMART data, suddenly can no longer calibrate (i.e. it can't read
anymore.) NOW the SMART data is showing something's wrong. Hard drive
"clicks" (heads go back and forth full disk) then quits trying. Have
another of the same model, but hesitant moving the platters myself;
apparently platters are not really "stuck" together and I could
mis-align them (rotate them in relation to each other) rendering the
whole thing un-readable. Was planning to move the data off but kept
delaying since it showed no sign of problems...

Now need a data recovery company; anyone have good experience with one
and can recommend?

I'm also curious about how they recover drives if not by using another
of the same model (where they hell how they going to find one as old as
mine, and can they really keep one of each model of ALL drives?) If you
can enlighten me on that too, would be great.

Thank you.
Best Regards,

--
! _\|/_ Sylvain /
! (o o) Memberavid-Suzuki-Fdn/EFF/Red+Cross/SPCA/Planetary-Society
oO-( )-Oo "Live Long And Suffer" -Ancient Vulcan Curse.

In article , B00ze
wrote:

Got a 15 years old WD IDE hard drive, that was showing ZERO problems in
SMART data, suddenly can no longer calibrate (i.e. it can't read
anymore.) NOW the SMART data is showing something's wrong.

what specifically is smart showing? do you have more than a pass/fail?

Hard drive
"clicks" (heads go back and forth full disk) then quits trying. Have
another of the same model, but hesitant moving the platters myself;
apparently platters are not really "stuck" together and I could
mis-align them (rotate them in relation to each other) rendering the
whole thing un-readable.

swapping controllers (which is what i assume you mean by moving
platters) won't make a difference and risks making things worse.

Was planning to move the data off but kept
delaying since it showed no sign of problems...

all drives fail. the question is when. 15 years is *much* longer than
normal. consider yourself lucky it lasted that long. you were on
borrowed time. unfortunately, your luck ran out, and without a backup,
you're in the situation you're in.

Now need a data recovery company; anyone have good experience with one
and can recommend?

without question, drive savers:
https://www.drivesaversdatarecovery.com

they aren't cheap (none of the good ones are), but if for some reason
they can't recover the drive (possible, but highly unlikely), you don't
pay anything.

a clicking drive is relatively easy compared to a computer melting in a
fire or being under water for a couple of days:
https://www.drivesaversdatarecovery....-bizarre-disk-
asters/

I'm also curious about how they recover drives if not by using another
of the same model (where they hell how they going to find one as old as
mine, and can they really keep one of each model of ALL drives?) If you
can enlighten me on that too, would be great.

they don't need one for each model drive and the controller isn't what
usually fails.

nospam
Sat, 21 Apr 2018
04:47:28 GMT in alt.windows7.general, wrote:

In article , B00ze
wrote:

Got a 15 years old WD IDE hard drive, that was showing ZERO
problems in SMART data, suddenly can no longer calibrate (i.e. it
can't read anymore.) NOW the SMART data is showing something's
wrong.

what specifically is smart showing? do you have more than a
pass/fail?

Hard drive
"clicks" (heads go back and forth full disk) then quits trying.
Have another of the same model, but hesitant moving the platters
myself; apparently platters are not really "stuck" together and I
could mis-align them (rotate them in relation to each other)
rendering the whole thing un-readable.

swapping controllers (which is what i assume you mean by moving
platters) won't make a difference and risks making things worse.

First hand experience tells me otherwise. Swapping the controllers if
they're identical and the controller is at fault can result in
regaining access to his data. I wouldn't perform any writes on a
drive using a 'borrowed' controller, but I'd certainly take full
advantage if it regains access to the drive and copy data over.

Taking the drive apart physically to gain access to the platters
though would be a very bad idea and will almost certainly result in
further damaging the drive.

It's pretty clear by his descriptive theory that he was thinking of
physically opening the drive and moving things around. Not swapping
out the controller.

Now need a data recovery company; anyone have good experience
with one and can recommend?

without question, drive savers:
https://www.drivesaversdatarecovery.com

they aren't cheap (none of the good ones are), but if for some
reason they can't recover the drive (possible, but highly
unlikely), you don't pay anything.

Your actual experience with the company is?



--
To prevent yourself from being a victim of cyber
stalking, it's highly recommended you visit he
https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php
================================================== =
It's not that they die, but that they die like sheep.

In article
5n4tY76H10y83Lr618DRo,
Diesel wrote:

Hard drive
"clicks" (heads go back and forth full disk) then quits trying.
Have another of the same model, but hesitant moving the platters
myself; apparently platters are not really "stuck" together and I
could mis-align them (rotate them in relation to each other)
rendering the whole thing un-readable.

swapping controllers (which is what i assume you mean by moving
platters) won't make a difference and risks making things worse.

First hand experience tells me otherwise. Swapping the controllers if
they're identical and the controller is at fault can result in
regaining access to his data. I wouldn't perform any writes on a
drive using a 'borrowed' controller, but I'd certainly take full
advantage if it regains access to the drive and copy data over.

swapping a controller isn't going to fix a clicking sound. that's a
mechanical issue internal to the drive.

the chances of a home remedy working are very low, and with a
significant risk of making it worse.

Taking the drive apart physically to gain access to the platters
though would be a very bad idea and will almost certainly result in
further damaging the drive.

incredibly stupid.

It's pretty clear by his descriptive theory that he was thinking of
physically opening the drive and moving things around. Not swapping
out the controller.

it may have sounded that way, but it's hard to believe anyone would be
foolish enough to even consider physically opening a hard drive
mechanism outside of a clean room, let alone actually try it.

unless of course, the goal was to destroy the platters or use them for
clocks or something, and/or repurpose the magnets, but that's not the
case here.

Now need a data recovery company; anyone have good experience
with one and can recommend?

without question, drive savers:
https://www.drivesaversdatarecovery.com

they aren't cheap (none of the good ones are), but if for some
reason they can't recover the drive (possible, but highly
unlikely), you don't pay anything.

Your actual experience with the company is?

extensive. i've known about the company for more than 20 years, i've
met several of their techs at trade shows over the years and talked
with them at length* and i also know several people who have had the
unfortunate need to use their services. recovery was 100% (and $$$).

backups are *much* cheaper and also much faster to restore. turnaround
time can be as short as a minute or so.

* it was quite interesting to learn how they can handle recovery from
multiple drives in a raid array as well as from ssds, skipping the ssd
controller entirely.

On 2018-04-23 07:03, nospam wrote:

In article
5n4tY76H10y83Lr618DRo,
Diesel wrote:

Hard drive
"clicks" (heads go back and forth full disk) then quits trying.
Have another of the same model, but hesitant moving the platters
myself; apparently platters are not really "stuck" together and I
could mis-align them (rotate them in relation to each other)
rendering the whole thing un-readable.

swapping controllers (which is what i assume you mean by moving
platters) won't make a difference and risks making things worse.

I don't think it's a controller issue, but I could try that first. It's
the exact same model, it won't make things worse.

First hand experience tells me otherwise. Swapping the controllers if
they're identical and the controller is at fault can result in
regaining access to his data. I wouldn't perform any writes on a
drive using a 'borrowed' controller, but I'd certainly take full
advantage if it regains access to the drive and copy data over.

swapping a controller isn't going to fix a clicking sound. that's a
mechanical issue internal to the drive.

Clicking means the drive is moving the heads the full width of the
platters in an attempt to find what it needs to start reading (embbeded
servo information I presume). It could be the controller board, I don't
know, but I do think this is the first thing I should try if I do this
myself...

the chances of a home remedy working are very low, and with a
significant risk of making it worse.

Taking the drive apart physically to gain access to the platters
though would be a very bad idea and will almost certainly result in
further damaging the drive.

incredibly stupid.

First of all, this is a 15 year old drive, things were bigger then
(bigger heads, bigger area for each bit on the platter, etc.) so it is
not as fragile as more recent drives (still pretty fragile however.) I
have opened and played around inside hard drives before, and did not
loose the drive. A clean room is nice, but not necessary if all I want
to do is read whatever I can ONCE from the drive.

Here's a little video that will help you see how easy it is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZx-tU1_gOw

It's pretty clear by his descriptive theory that he was thinking of
physically opening the drive and moving things around. Not swapping
out the controller.

Indeed.

it may have sounded that way, but it's hard to believe anyone would be
foolish enough to even consider physically opening a hard drive
mechanism outside of a clean room, let alone actually try it.

Done it before, no issues.

unless of course, the goal was to destroy the platters or use them for
clocks or something, and/or repurpose the magnets, but that's not the
case here.

Now need a data recovery company; anyone have good experience
with one and can recommend?

without question, drive savers:
https://www.drivesaversdatarecovery.com

Thanks, will see if perhaps they have an outlet in Canada...

they aren't cheap (none of the good ones are), but if for some
reason they can't recover the drive (possible, but highly
unlikely), you don't pay anything.

Yeah, I don't really care for that - i.e. If we break it beyond repair
you won't pay anything is not an important consideration as far as I'm
concerned, since they will have rendered the thing unrecoverable.

Your actual experience with the company is?

extensive. i've known about the company for more than 20 years, i've
met several of their techs at trade shows over the years and talked
with them at length* and i also know several people who have had the
unfortunate need to use their services. recovery was 100% (and $$$).

backups are *much* cheaper and also much faster to restore. turnaround
time can be as short as a minute or so.

* it was quite interesting to learn how they can handle recovery from
multiple drives in a raid array as well as from ssds, skipping the ssd
controller entirely.

I'm skeptic about this, but feel free not to doubt, you're the one who
heard them explain. I need more data.

Best Regards,

--
! _\|/_ Sylvain /
! (o o) Memberavid-Suzuki-Fdn/EFF/Red+Cross/SPCA/Planetary-Society
oO-( )-Oo JUST DISCOVERED - Research causes cancer in rats!

In article , B00ze
wrote:

Taking the drive apart physically to gain access to the platters
though would be a very bad idea and will almost certainly result in
further damaging the drive.

incredibly stupid.

First of all, this is a 15 year old drive, things were bigger then
(bigger heads, bigger area for each bit on the platter, etc.) so it is
not as fragile as more recent drives (still pretty fragile however.) I
have opened and played around inside hard drives before, and did not
loose the drive. A clean room is nice, but not necessary if all I want
to do is read whatever I can ONCE from the drive.

a clean room is necessary, but it's the only copy of your data and if
you want to risk it, go right ahead.

nospam
Mon, 23 Apr 2018
11:03:06 GMT in alt.windows7.general, wrote:

In article
5n4tY76H10y83Lr61
8DRo,
Diesel wrote:

Hard drive
"clicks" (heads go back and forth full disk) then quits
trying. Have another of the same model, but hesitant moving
the platters myself; apparently platters are not really
"stuck" together and I could mis-align them (rotate them in
relation to each other) rendering the whole thing un-readable.

swapping controllers (which is what i assume you mean by moving
platters) won't make a difference and risks making things
worse.

First hand experience tells me otherwise. Swapping the
controllers if they're identical and the controller is at fault
can result in regaining access to his data. I wouldn't perform
any writes on a drive using a 'borrowed' controller, but I'd
certainly take full advantage if it regains access to the drive
and copy data over.

swapping a controller isn't going to fix a clicking sound. that's
a mechanical issue internal to the drive.

Sometimes, again, from 1st hand experience as a field tech has shown
me that what you're describing as the click of death isn't always a
mechanical failure. A bad controller board can also do it.

the chances of a home remedy working are very low, and with a
significant risk of making it worse.

Swapping identical controller boards isn't what I'd call a home
remedy. It's a common thing in a lot of tech shops that actually do
in house repairs and don't ship the machine off someplace.

Taking the drive apart physically to gain access to the platters
though would be a very bad idea and will almost certainly result
in further damaging the drive.

incredibly stupid.

Well, it depends on the person, the gear they have access to, AND,
how valuable the data might be to them as to what methods they'll use
to retrieve it, if possible.


It's pretty clear by his descriptive theory that he was thinking
of physically opening the drive and moving things around. Not
swapping out the controller.

it may have sounded that way, but it's hard to believe anyone
would be foolish enough to even consider physically opening a hard
drive mechanism outside of a clean room, let alone actually try
it.

I've learned not to under estimate people, because I've seen people
make things much much worse attempting to perform a repair on their
own in IT and electrical too many times to count.

Sometimes, it doesn't result in catastrophic damage and the story can
be quite funny to listen to the owner/client tell it. Other times,
the fire department was necessary... So..

Your actual experience with the company is?

extensive. i've known about the company for more than 20 years,
i've met several of their techs at trade shows over the years and
talked with them at length* and i also know several people who
have had the unfortunate need to use their services. recovery was
100% (and $$$).

backups are *much* cheaper and also much faster to restore.
turnaround time can be as short as a minute or so.

* it was quite interesting to learn how they can handle recovery
from multiple drives in a raid array as well as from ssds,
skipping the ssd controller entirely.

Kewl Beans...



--
To prevent yourself from being a victim of cyber
stalking, it's highly recommended you visit he
https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php
================================================== =
Friends often desert you in time of need. Enemies can be found
anytime you need them. --Ben Lichtenberg

On 2018-04-21 00:47, nospam wrote:

In article , B00ze
wrote:

Got a 15 years old WD IDE hard drive, that was showing ZERO problems in
SMART data, suddenly can no longer calibrate (i.e. it can't read
anymore.) NOW the SMART data is showing something's wrong.

what specifically is smart showing? do you have more than a pass/fail?

Calibrate and Read, they're both like 1 or 2 (out of 100 or 199 or
whatever) - it can't read, spinning-up is fine. The drive shows-up in
Windows, so the interface to the computer works fine, but since it can't
read, Windows keeps freezing-up. It's still running in that old
computer, I just disabled it in the BIOS for now.

Regards,

--
! _\|/_ Sylvain /
! (o o) Memberavid-Suzuki-Fdn/EFF/Red+Cross/SPCA/Planetary-Society
oO-( )-Oo Windows error 05 Multitasking attempted; system confused.

In article , B00ze
wrote:

Got a 15 years old WD IDE hard drive, that was showing ZERO problems in
SMART data, suddenly can no longer calibrate (i.e. it can't read
anymore.) NOW the SMART data is showing something's wrong.

what specifically is smart showing? do you have more than a pass/fail?

Calibrate and Read, they're both like 1 or 2 (out of 100 or 199 or
whatever) - it can't read, spinning-up is fine. The drive shows-up in
Windows, so the interface to the computer works fine, but since it can't
read, Windows keeps freezing-up. It's still running in that old
computer, I just disabled it in the BIOS for now.

try it on a non-windows system.

if you don't have a non-windows system available, try spinrite:
https://www.grc.com/sr/spinrite.htm

nospam
Sat, 28 Apr 2018
13:33:39 GMT in alt.windows7.general, wrote:

In article , B00ze
wrote:

Got a 15 years old WD IDE hard drive, that was showing ZERO
problems in SMART data, suddenly can no longer calibrate (i.e.
it can't read anymore.) NOW the SMART data is showing
something's wrong.

what specifically is smart showing? do you have more than a
pass/fail?

Calibrate and Read, they're both like 1 or 2 (out of 100 or 199
or whatever) - it can't read, spinning-up is fine. The drive
shows-up in Windows, so the interface to the computer works fine,
but since it can't read, Windows keeps freezing-up. It's still
running in that old computer, I just disabled it in the BIOS for
now.

try it on a non-windows system.

I've had success using Linux to assist in data recovery efforts on a
failing/suspected failing hard drive, several times. It works when
windows doesn't wanna play nice. Not saying that Linux plays really
well on failing hardware either. I had a 1tb drive go south on me,
without prior warning.. Toasting the superblock and the backup of said
superblock. I lost the road map to my data obviously, but my data
itself is still intact. Luckily for me though, I'm almost uber
religious about backing up important files and making system images so
I didn't actually lose anything when that system went down.

I've kept the drive for the learning opportunity it presents for me.
Recover my **** on a linux native file system that's sustained
irreversable damage to the superblock and it's backup due to bad
sectors being present in the worst place possible, imho.

if you don't have a non-windows system available, try spinrite:
https://www.grc.com/sr/spinrite.htm

I have a legit regged copy of Spinrite 6...It's quite a program, but,
it's not a miracle worker. If the drives in rough shape (clicking
sounds) I dunno if I'd go that route first...As the last thing you want
to do is stress that drive further. It could indeed be a mechanical
failure in progress, and that can be very bad for the data on the
platters, IF, it's still intact.

Spinrite is also a DOS native program; You can't make full use of it
under Windows. It's really two exe's combined into one. The MZ (Dos
stub) is the actual program, and the win32PE file will tell you all
about it. I think it offers to help you create a bootable diskette.
It's been a very very long time since I've executed it under windows.

What I wound up doing, years ago, originally for a former employer was
to create the bootable floppy (DOS 6.2 I think it is) with spinrite on
it, etc. Then, I read the floppy track by track and saved it as an iso
of itself. I used that as my 'boot sector' for a bootable CDROM. And,
it works. The cdrom contains other diagnostic tools, so generic cdrom
drivers are loaded and mscdex mounts a drive letter for you. Pretty
standard little floppy that's not so floppy anymore. These days, it's
typically a dvd, but those can be treated like a bootable cdrom too.



--
To prevent yourself from being a victim of cyber
stalking, it's highly recommended you visit he
https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php
================================================== =
The answer to your qustion is FIVE TONS OF FLAX.

In article , Diesel
wrote:

if you don't have a non-windows system available, try spinrite:
https://www.grc.com/sr/spinrite.htm

I have a legit regged copy of Spinrite 6...It's quite a program, but,
it's not a miracle worker. If the drives in rough shape (clicking
sounds) I dunno if I'd go that route first...As the last thing you want
to do is stress that drive further. It could indeed be a mechanical
failure in progress, and that can be very bad for the data on the
platters, IF, it's still intact.

he wants to try homebrew solutions, and of those, spinrite has a *much*
higher chance of success than physically opening the case and moving
platters, especially without it being done in a cleanroom.

if he actually wants the data, the best choice is a recovery company,
who is almost certain to recover it (they've recovered drives in far
worse condition), but as has been noted, it ain't cheap.

Spinrite is also a DOS native program; You can't make full use of it
under Windows.

that's the whole point. it's as close to the metal as it can get.

In article , Good Guy
wrote:

I would try removing from the machine and putting in a USB enclosure and
try using File explorer to recover as much as possible.

the clicking is a bad sign and isn't going to magically stop if it's in
a usb enclosure.

I agree 15 years is a very long time but Hard Drives do lasts longer if
enough care is taken not to misuse them.

it's not a question of misuse. moving parts eventually wear out.

I am using one that I bought
in 2005 and is still working. It is only 1TB but I intend to remove it
and install a 2TB NAS drive. I like using NAS drives in Desktops!!!

you must also like time machines, since 1tb drives first appeared in
2007:

https://www.techradar.com/news/digit...ng/ces-2007-wo
rld-s-first-1tb-hard-drive-148723

nospam wrote:
In article , Good Guy
wrote:

I would try removing from the machine and putting in a USB enclosure and
try using File explorer to recover as much as possible.

the clicking is a bad sign and isn't going to magically stop if it's in
a usb enclosure.

Agreed. That is the sound of a bad controller. Data recovery is VERY
expensive. Years ago a local business loss a drive after and send drive
to OnTrack and was nearly 6K for 3GB of data and this was 15 years ago.


I agree 15 years is a very long time but Hard Drives do lasts longer if
enough care is taken not to misuse them.


Platters can lose data from just sitting over the years, but that is not
OPs issue. Definite sign of bad controller. Options a

1) You have backup right? (best option)
2) Data recovery (very expensive option)
3) Get another drive of the same model that works and swap platters.
(not easy on many aspects).

I have done #3. First it will be hard to find another 15 year old drive.
I was lucky to have several on hand. It requires that you CAREFULLY
disassemble both drives. Requires micro torx drivers and great care.
Hardest part is removing the the head arm without scratching your
platters. You have to get it out of the way to swap platters. The rare
earth magnets are VERY strong. Then you have to connect it up, cross
fingers and if lucky start dumping data as fast as you can. I do not
bother putting cover back on just trying to dump data to good drive as
fast as possible. That said, odds of success a small, but if #1 & #2 are
not possible what do you have to lose?


--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com

Jonathan N. Little wrote:
nospam wrote:
In article , Good Guy
wrote:

I would try removing from the machine and putting in a USB enclosure and
try using File explorer to recover as much as possible.

the clicking is a bad sign and isn't going to magically stop if it's in
a usb enclosure.

Agreed. That is the sound of a bad controller. Data recovery is VERY
expensive. Years ago a local business loss a drive after and send drive
to OnTrack and was nearly 6K for 3GB of data and this was 15 years ago.


I agree 15 years is a very long time but Hard Drives do lasts longer if
enough care is taken not to misuse them.


Platters can lose data from just sitting over the years, but that is not
OPs issue. Definite sign of bad controller. Options a

1) You have backup right? (best option)
2) Data recovery (very expensive option)
3) Get another drive of the same model that works and swap platters.
(not easy on many aspects).

I have done #3. First it will be hard to find another 15 year old drive.
I was lucky to have several on hand. It requires that you CAREFULLY
disassemble both drives. Requires micro torx drivers and great care.
Hardest part is removing the the head arm without scratching your
platters. You have to get it out of the way to swap platters. The rare
earth magnets are VERY strong. Then you have to connect it up, cross
fingers and if lucky start dumping data as fast as you can. I do not
bother putting cover back on just trying to dump data to good drive as
fast as possible. That said, odds of success a small, but if #1 & #2 are
not possible what do you have to lose?

The price of data recovery has come down over the years.

The price is proportional to the amount of effort put into it.
In some cases, recovery is achieved without disassembly, in
which case the price charged still gives a very healthy profit.

If the drive responds and gives the ID string, that proves that
quite a bit of the drive is working.

The controller only contains a bootstrap code, and the controller
has to move the heads out and read the Service Area to become
fully functional. The firmware (for ATA command set) is loaded
on the Service Area, as well as data structures for sector
sparing and so on.

If the drive will ID itself, that means the SA reads OK.

The drive has the option of running an internal SMART short
test, which could cause a series of accesses not under
the users control. Attempts to recalibrate, banging the
heads against the stops, might have actually been triggered
by some early SMART activity.

If a head was bad (say, one of eight heads), the drive
might stumble during the SMART test, but succeed when reading
the SA. There's no particular reason the SA has to take up a
full cylinder of space and require all heads to be functional
to get it loaded.

Before doing anything, I'd be running the exact make and model
number through Google, to see what's known about fault modes.

Some of the older drives (my two dead Maxtor 40GB drives) were
*******s when it came time to fail. From first symptoms, to
non-responsive (dead), only took 24 hours or less, which means your
"execution" during that interval had to be flawless if you wanted
your data back for free. And checking the history of a drive,
may indicate how they perform during that time.

Sometimes even the data recovery sites, keep a web page for
specific models with "noteworthy" failure modes. Like the
drives where the motor controller burns out (giving the
impression the motor controller chip simply wasn't
designed properly in the first place).

If the spindle is stuck (FDB motor lost lubricant and the
spindle seized up), the motor controller is uses to "pulse"
the spindle to try to free it up. This gives a characteristic
noise. And the pattern applied also doesn't try to burn out
the motor controller - the motor controller is designed
for a current flow profile, in a sense being current
limited. It'll try for some number of seconds, before
giving up.

Paul

In article , Paul
wrote:


The price of data recovery has come down over the years.

no it hasn't. prices have gone up because recovery is more complex than
it once was for several reasons, including significantly higher data
density and more advanced drive technology, including smr and helium
drives, as well as the amount of data to recover being *much* greater.