A Little Help Would Be Appreciated

I'm running WinXp-3 and in the past week I've had about 6 'Blue
Screens' telling me that one of my disks (C) is showing some
inconsistency and then it runs Chkdisk and reboots (successfully).
Is this a problem with the Boot Sector? Or something else?
I'd appreciate some advice on this one, as it usually appears in the
middle of some operation.


Note: I should have included this in the post. Windows system
identifies my boot drive as a Maxtor 6E040T0 "SCSI" Drive, but it is a
SATA drive. I make no pretensions to be a drive expert, but does this
make sense?

Barry Bruyea wrote:
I'm running WinXp-3 and in the past week I've had about 6 'Blue
Screens' telling me that one of my disks (C) is showing some
inconsistency and then it runs Chkdisk and reboots (successfully).
Is this a problem with the Boot Sector? Or something else?
I'd appreciate some advice on this one, as it usually appears in the
middle of some operation.


Note: I should have included this in the post. Windows system
identifies my boot drive as a Maxtor 6E040T0 "SCSI" Drive, but it is a
SATA drive. I make no pretensions to be a drive expert, but does this
make sense?

The OS uses a pseudo-SCSI driver stack, with some kinds of
hardware. Don't let this style of labeling upset you.
I was working on a system with a Maxtor a couple weeks ago,
and saw that SCSI thing, and it didn't make me freak out
or anything. That's normal.

If you look in Device Manager, you may find two entries in the
storage section. One layer of the two layer deep driver model,
may make reference to SCSI. And the reason that is done, is
any chip that doesn't look like a classical IDE controller,
can be accessed through a pseudo-SCSI model. Windows sends a
SCSI CDB (basically a command block) to the driver. The driver
translates the CDB into an IDE operation, and then sends that
to the disk. Using that intermediate step, makes it easier for
custom drivers to be written for strange hardware controllers.
Your hard drive is not SCSI, but the driver stack can use
SCSI-like command format for passing read/write requests.

*******

As for the health of your disk.

1) Get a copy of the free HDTune. It has a Health tab which
can access SMART coming from the disk.

http://www.hdtune.com/files/hdtune_255.exe

2) Install it and run it. Click the Health tab. Go to the menu at the top,
and select the disk drive you want information on. Important
parameters a

Parameter Current Worst Threshold Data Status
--------- ------- ----- --------- ---- ------
Reallocated sector Count 100 100 36 0 OK
...
Current Pending Sector 100 100 0 0 OK

3) Not all hardware setups will support SMART. For one, a hard drive
can be so old, that no SMART exists inside it. It ignores queries
about SMART. (Says here, it was introduced in 2004.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S.M.A.R.T

Another reason, is the driver stack itself. It may not be able
to pass SMART calls down to the disk, and then the statistics
will not be available.

In the two critical parameters I show above, you look at the Data column.
When I see "zero" there, all is well. When I see a growing count,
I begin to be a bit concerned. On the last disk I swapped out, the
count had advanced to a couple hundred, and the disk still worked.

A second test you can run, which also gives health information,
is use the HDTUne read-only "benchmark" option. The response should
be a gentle curve, with more bandwidth at the beginning of the disk
than near the end. If the benchmark curve has a lot of downward spikes,
that is an indicator of a lot of spared out sectors on the disk.
It doesn't mean the disk is dead or anything, but you might want
to change the disk out, before a catastrophe happens.

At the very least, if you have any concerns about your system,
do a backup. Macrium Reflect Free is available for example.
It can be used to copy the computer internal disk, to an
external USB hard drive, for safe keeping. You should prepare
the (Linux based, no download needed) recovery CD that comes with
Macrium Reflect Free, as that is needed when the new hard drive
is installed, and no OS is present. When you boot that CD,
Linux is not apparent, because the Macrium program takes control
of the screen, and you can't even tell it's Linux. The OS is not
important in the case of the recovery CD, since the user has no
way to interact with the OS at all. The CD is effectively a
"fixed function", like running a single program that takes over
the computer.

(Download link near the bottom)

http://www.macrium.com/reflectfree.aspx

Materials needed for Macrium...

1) Download the program and install it.
2) Purchase an external USB disk, to store the backup. If
your internal disk is 40GB, the external should be at least
that big. Large disks don't add much of a cost adder, and
virtually any modern USB disk will be sufficient for your
Maxtor.
3) Prepare the Macrium boot CD. You will need a blank writable CD,
an optical disk drive with burning capability, and some
burning software. If you don't have burning software already,
Imgburn is free. Simply decline any tool bars or the like,
if the installer for this attempts to install them. When I
last downloaded this, there were no tool bars in the file...
The URL for the imgburn site, is listed in this article.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imgburn

In any case, if Macrium starts downloading a 1GB WAIK toolkit
file from Microsoft, that's unnecessary. The Linux CD which is
part of Macrium, is more than adequate for the average user.
Test to make sure it boots, in case you need to do a restore
from your new backup disk.

If your Maxtor is IDE, it can be a bit harder to find an
acceptable substitute. Newegg still showed a few the
last time I looked, and they seemed to have shown up since the
flooding of the disk plants a couple years ago. I don't know
what country they came from, but they didn't appear to be
old stock, but rather products made recently in some
other disk drive plant. (For example, one of the
bought out companies, had a disk drive plant in Hungary.)
So there may still be some IDE (ribbon cable) drives for
sale. You can thank the flood for bringing a few of those
back from the grave.

(Just to show they still exist, if you need one...)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822136457

With the old IDE drives, you need to install jumper plugs on
the back, as a function of the drive configuration. Info on
this has been posted many times, but if you need help, post
back.

HTH,
Paul

On Thu, 21 Feb 2013 13:11:43 -0500, Paul wrote:

Barry Bruyea wrote:
I'm running WinXp-3 and in the past week I've had about 6 'Blue
Screens' telling me that one of my disks (C) is showing some
inconsistency and then it runs Chkdisk and reboots (successfully).
Is this a problem with the Boot Sector? Or something else?
I'd appreciate some advice on this one, as it usually appears in the
middle of some operation.


Note: I should have included this in the post. Windows system
identifies my boot drive as a Maxtor 6E040T0 "SCSI" Drive, but it is a
SATA drive. I make no pretensions to be a drive expert, but does this
make sense?

The OS uses a pseudo-SCSI driver stack, with some kinds of
hardware. Don't let this style of labeling upset you.
I was working on a system with a Maxtor a couple weeks ago,
and saw that SCSI thing, and it didn't make me freak out
or anything. That's normal.

If you look in Device Manager, you may find two entries in the
storage section. One layer of the two layer deep driver model,
may make reference to SCSI. And the reason that is done, is
any chip that doesn't look like a classical IDE controller,
can be accessed through a pseudo-SCSI model. Windows sends a
SCSI CDB (basically a command block) to the driver. The driver
translates the CDB into an IDE operation, and then sends that
to the disk. Using that intermediate step, makes it easier for
custom drivers to be written for strange hardware controllers.
Your hard drive is not SCSI, but the driver stack can use
SCSI-like command format for passing read/write requests.

*******

As for the health of your disk.

1) Get a copy of the free HDTune. It has a Health tab which
can access SMART coming from the disk.

http://www.hdtune.com/files/hdtune_255.exe

2) Install it and run it. Click the Health tab. Go to the menu at the top,
and select the disk drive you want information on. Important
parameters a

Parameter Current Worst Threshold Data Status
--------- ------- ----- --------- ---- ------
Reallocated sector Count 100 100 36 0 OK
...
Current Pending Sector 100 100 0 0 OK

3) Not all hardware setups will support SMART. For one, a hard drive
can be so old, that no SMART exists inside it. It ignores queries
about SMART. (Says here, it was introduced in 2004.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S.M.A.R.T

Another reason, is the driver stack itself. It may not be able
to pass SMART calls down to the disk, and then the statistics
will not be available.

In the two critical parameters I show above, you look at the Data column.
When I see "zero" there, all is well. When I see a growing count,
I begin to be a bit concerned. On the last disk I swapped out, the
count had advanced to a couple hundred, and the disk still worked.

A second test you can run, which also gives health information,
is use the HDTUne read-only "benchmark" option. The response should
be a gentle curve, with more bandwidth at the beginning of the disk
than near the end. If the benchmark curve has a lot of downward spikes,
that is an indicator of a lot of spared out sectors on the disk.
It doesn't mean the disk is dead or anything, but you might want
to change the disk out, before a catastrophe happens.

At the very least, if you have any concerns about your system,
do a backup. Macrium Reflect Free is available for example.
It can be used to copy the computer internal disk, to an
external USB hard drive, for safe keeping. You should prepare
the (Linux based, no download needed) recovery CD that comes with
Macrium Reflect Free, as that is needed when the new hard drive
is installed, and no OS is present. When you boot that CD,
Linux is not apparent, because the Macrium program takes control
of the screen, and you can't even tell it's Linux. The OS is not
important in the case of the recovery CD, since the user has no
way to interact with the OS at all. The CD is effectively a
"fixed function", like running a single program that takes over
the computer.

(Download link near the bottom)

http://www.macrium.com/reflectfree.aspx

Materials needed for Macrium...

1) Download the program and install it.
2) Purchase an external USB disk, to store the backup. If
your internal disk is 40GB, the external should be at least
that big. Large disks don't add much of a cost adder, and
virtually any modern USB disk will be sufficient for your
Maxtor.
3) Prepare the Macrium boot CD. You will need a blank writable CD,
an optical disk drive with burning capability, and some
burning software. If you don't have burning software already,
Imgburn is free. Simply decline any tool bars or the like,
if the installer for this attempts to install them. When I
last downloaded this, there were no tool bars in the file...
The URL for the imgburn site, is listed in this article.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imgburn

In any case, if Macrium starts downloading a 1GB WAIK toolkit
file from Microsoft, that's unnecessary. The Linux CD which is
part of Macrium, is more than adequate for the average user.
Test to make sure it boots, in case you need to do a restore
from your new backup disk.

If your Maxtor is IDE, it can be a bit harder to find an
acceptable substitute. Newegg still showed a few the
last time I looked, and they seemed to have shown up since the
flooding of the disk plants a couple years ago. I don't know
what country they came from, but they didn't appear to be
old stock, but rather products made recently in some
other disk drive plant. (For example, one of the
bought out companies, had a disk drive plant in Hungary.)
So there may still be some IDE (ribbon cable) drives for
sale. You can thank the flood for bringing a few of those
back from the grave.

(Just to show they still exist, if you need one...)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822136457

With the old IDE drives, you need to install jumper plugs on
the back, as a function of the drive configuration. Info on
this has been posted many times, but if you need help, post
back.

HTH,
Paul


Paul, I really appreciate the effort you have put into your reply and
I will certainly take advantage of your suggestions and post back what
I did or had to do. I hope it isn't having to get a new disk.

"Barry Bruyea" wrote in message
...


Paul, I really appreciate the effort you have put into your reply and
I will certainly take advantage of your suggestions and post back what
I did or had to do. I hope it isn't having to get a new disk.

SMART results are useful, but you should not rely solely on SMART, or
the quick test HDTune does. Create a drive diagnostic boot CD to test
your drive. With an older Maxtor, you can use Hitachi Drive Fitness
test (DFT) or SeaTools for DOS.

DFT for DOS:
http://www.hgst.com/support/index-fi...-downloads#DFT

SeaTools for DOD:
http://www.seagate.com/support/inter...ls-dos-master/

--
Glen Ventura
MS MVP Oct. 2002 - Sept. 2009
CompTIA A+

glee wrote:
"Barry Bruyea" wrote in message
...


Paul, I really appreciate the effort you have put into your reply and
I will certainly take advantage of your suggestions and post back what
I did or had to do. I hope it isn't having to get a new disk.

SMART results are useful, but you should not rely solely on SMART, or
the quick test HDTune does. Create a drive diagnostic boot CD to test
your drive. With an older Maxtor, you can use Hitachi Drive Fitness
test (DFT) or SeaTools for DOS.

DFT for DOS:
http://www.hgst.com/support/index-fi...-downloads#DFT

SeaTools for DOD:
http://www.seagate.com/support/inter...ls-dos-master/



With the caveat that SeaTools damaged my USB drive enclosure.

One of the two versions of SeaTools, doesn't handle USB drives.
The other (possibly the Windows version), does. And it erased
the configuration area of the USB chip. I had to dig up an
old recipe, of how to re-flash it. The enclosure ends up
no longer knowomg it is a USB storage device. The problem
affects Cypress controllers on USB disk enclosures.
If you use that version of Seatools, disconnect any
Cypress based disk enclosures first. The DOS version
is probably OK. A problem with the DOS version, is
it doesn't support all possible disk controllers. My
two newest computers don't work with the DOS version.
And thus, the temptation to use the Windows version instead.

*******

I don't claim that there is a positive correlation between
SMART results and real life. Merely that, as an *arbitrary*
criterion for replacement, it's an early warning. I've
certainly worked with people, who continue to use duff
hard drives until the day they croak, and that's your
prerogative (like the people who "polish" their
drives with Spinrite). I just find it easier to
"clean up a mess", before it happens, and not after.

If you pull a drive prematurely, it can still be placed in
the rotation for experimental OS installations. As a scratch
disk when editing a video perhaps. Anything where the only
copy of data is not stored on that drive. I still keep my
"half-bad" drives in the rotation, but with a notation written
on top in marker pen, that it's not for archival or
permanent storage.

Paul

"Paul" wrote in message
...
glee wrote:
"Barry Bruyea" wrote in message
...


Paul, I really appreciate the effort you have put into your reply
and
I will certainly take advantage of your suggestions and post back
what
I did or had to do. I hope it isn't having to get a new disk.

SMART results are useful, but you should not rely solely on SMART, or
the quick test HDTune does. Create a drive diagnostic boot CD to
test your drive. With an older Maxtor, you can use Hitachi Drive
Fitness test (DFT) or SeaTools for DOS.

DFT for DOS:
http://www.hgst.com/support/index-fi...-downloads#DFT

SeaTools for DOD:
http://www.seagate.com/support/inter...ls-dos-master/

With the caveat that SeaTools damaged my USB drive enclosure.

One of the two versions of SeaTools, doesn't handle USB drives.
The other (possibly the Windows version), does. And it erased
the configuration area of the USB chip. I had to dig up an
old recipe, of how to re-flash it. The enclosure ends up
no longer knowomg it is a USB storage device. The problem
affects Cypress controllers on USB disk enclosures.
If you use that version of Seatools, disconnect any
Cypress based disk enclosures first. The DOS version
is probably OK. A problem with the DOS version, is
it doesn't support all possible disk controllers. My
two newest computers don't work with the DOS version.
And thus, the temptation to use the Windows version instead.
snip

Wow, interesting... good to know. Erasing the config of the USB chip...
how bizarre!

I was recommending the DOS version of DFT or SeaTools for the OP's
Maxtor drive, which would be an older IDE drive. I don't recommend the
Windows version of SeaTools to anyone.... I dislike it and have seen
problems with it.
--
Glen Ventura
MS MVP Oct. 2002 - Sept. 2009
CompTIA A+

glee wrote:
"Paul" wrote in message

With the caveat that SeaTools damaged my USB drive enclosure.

One of the two versions of SeaTools, doesn't handle USB drives.
The other (possibly the Windows version), does. And it erased
the configuration area of the USB chip. I had to dig up an
old recipe, of how to re-flash it. The enclosure ends up
no longer knowomg it is a USB storage device. The problem
affects Cypress controllers on USB disk enclosures.
If you use that version of Seatools, disconnect any
Cypress based disk enclosures first. The DOS version
is probably OK. A problem with the DOS version, is
it doesn't support all possible disk controllers. My
two newest computers don't work with the DOS version.
And thus, the temptation to use the Windows version instead.
snip

Wow, interesting... good to know. Erasing the config of the USB chip...
how bizarre!

I was recommending the DOS version of DFT or SeaTools for the OP's
Maxtor drive, which would be an older IDE drive. I don't recommend the
Windows version of SeaTools to anyone.... I dislike it and have seen
problems with it.

The really ironic part, was I'd heard about the Cypress issue before
(as more than just SeaTools can do that).

But like a twit, it never occurred to me to glance at the
chip when I had the enclosure open, and notice that *my* favorite
enclosure used a Cypress. As soon as it happened, like a flash of
lightning, I realize that I actually have one of those enclosures,
and I'd just toasted it :-) It took a while to find the
instructions and execute them successfully. You have to
install a driver first, that recognizes the now brain-dead
box, and allows it to be flashed. Similar to how someone
would flash it at the factory.

Paul

"Paul" wrote in message
...
glee wrote:
"Paul" wrote in message

With the caveat that SeaTools damaged my USB drive enclosure.

One of the two versions of SeaTools, doesn't handle USB drives.
The other (possibly the Windows version), does. And it erased
the configuration area of the USB chip. I had to dig up an
old recipe, of how to re-flash it. The enclosure ends up
no longer knowomg it is a USB storage device. The problem
affects Cypress controllers on USB disk enclosures.
If you use that version of Seatools, disconnect any
Cypress based disk enclosures first. The DOS version
is probably OK. A problem with the DOS version, is
it doesn't support all possible disk controllers. My
two newest computers don't work with the DOS version.
And thus, the temptation to use the Windows version instead.
snip

Wow, interesting... good to know. Erasing the config of the USB
chip... how bizarre!

I was recommending the DOS version of DFT or SeaTools for the OP's
Maxtor drive, which would be an older IDE drive. I don't recommend
the Windows version of SeaTools to anyone.... I dislike it and have
seen problems with it.

The really ironic part, was I'd heard about the Cypress issue before
(as more than just SeaTools can do that).

But like a twit, it never occurred to me to glance at the
chip when I had the enclosure open, and notice that *my* favorite
enclosure used a Cypress. As soon as it happened, like a flash of
lightning, I realize that I actually have one of those enclosures,
and I'd just toasted it :-) It took a while to find the
instructions and execute them successfully. You have to
install a driver first, that recognizes the now brain-dead
box, and allows it to be flashed. Similar to how someone
would flash it at the factory.

Were the instructions at a Cypress support page, or forum?
--
Glen Ventura
MS MVP Oct. 2002 - Sept. 2009
CompTIA A+

glee wrote:
"Paul" wrote in message
...
glee wrote:
"Paul" wrote in message

With the caveat that SeaTools damaged my USB drive enclosure.

One of the two versions of SeaTools, doesn't handle USB drives.
The other (possibly the Windows version), does. And it erased
the configuration area of the USB chip. I had to dig up an
old recipe, of how to re-flash it. The enclosure ends up
no longer knowomg it is a USB storage device. The problem
affects Cypress controllers on USB disk enclosures.
If you use that version of Seatools, disconnect any
Cypress based disk enclosures first. The DOS version
is probably OK. A problem with the DOS version, is
it doesn't support all possible disk controllers. My
two newest computers don't work with the DOS version.
And thus, the temptation to use the Windows version instead.
snip

Wow, interesting... good to know. Erasing the config of the USB
chip... how bizarre!

I was recommending the DOS version of DFT or SeaTools for the OP's
Maxtor drive, which would be an older IDE drive. I don't recommend
the Windows version of SeaTools to anyone.... I dislike it and have
seen problems with it.

The really ironic part, was I'd heard about the Cypress issue before
(as more than just SeaTools can do that).

But like a twit, it never occurred to me to glance at the
chip when I had the enclosure open, and notice that *my* favorite
enclosure used a Cypress. As soon as it happened, like a flash of
lightning, I realize that I actually have one of those enclosures,
and I'd just toasted it :-) It took a while to find the
instructions and execute them successfully. You have to
install a driver first, that recognizes the now brain-dead
box, and allows it to be flashed. Similar to how someone
would flash it at the factory.

Were the instructions at a Cypress support page, or forum?

It looks like the page I used was moved somewhere. The archive
still has it. And luckily, the tool (EXE) also got archived.
The first link is to the tool download (flasher), the
second is the HOWTO with pictures.

http://web.archive.org/web/200710310...ad/DBFlash.exe

http://web.archive.org/web/200812051...articl eid=74

"Cypress At2LP RC58 driver problem"

The "Cypress At2LP RC58" part appears in Device Manager,
just after your drive disappears on you. That's how you
know you have the problem.

Cypress has a page as well, but this won't render unless
you have Adobe Flash loaded.

http://www.cypress.com/?id=4&rID=38494

"Question: How can I recover the data stored on my hard drive
when I get an error message saying "Install driver for
Cypress AT2LP RC42" or " Install driver for
Cypress AT2LP RC58"?

Answer: These error messages are not related to the Cypress
device, but rather the EEPROM attached to your hard
drive. The contents of the EEPROM may have been corrupted.
Cypress has prepared this document to help you recover
your hard drive."

The EEPROM in that case, is probably connected to the Cypress
controller chip, not to the hard drive itself. And what
inquiring minds want to know, is why it isn't write protected.

There are similar sad cases, in some LCD monitors, where the
EDID EEPROM (similar in construction) gets overwritten.

Paul

From: "glee"



Wow, interesting... good to know. Erasing the config of the USB chip...
how bizarre!

I was recommending the DOS version of DFT or SeaTools for the OP's Maxtor
drive, which would be an older IDE drive. I don't recommend the Windows
version of SeaTools to anyone.... I dislike it and have seen problems with
it.

My sentiments exactly. Always get the ISO image and burn a CD such that you
boot outside the OS of the affected hard disk.

IBM/Hitachi - DFT
SeaGate - SeaTools
WD - WD Diagnostics.


--
Dave
Multi-AV Scanning Tool - http://multi-av.thespykiller.co.uk
http://www.pctipp.ch/downloads/dl/35905.asp

"Paul" wrote in message
...
glee wrote:
"Paul" wrote in message
...
glee wrote:
"Paul" wrote in message

With the caveat that SeaTools damaged my USB drive enclosure.

One of the two versions of SeaTools, doesn't handle USB drives.
The other (possibly the Windows version), does. And it erased
the configuration area of the USB chip. I had to dig up an
old recipe, of how to re-flash it. The enclosure ends up
no longer knowomg it is a USB storage device. The problem
affects Cypress controllers on USB disk enclosures.
If you use that version of Seatools, disconnect any
Cypress based disk enclosures first. The DOS version
is probably OK. A problem with the DOS version, is
it doesn't support all possible disk controllers. My
two newest computers don't work with the DOS version.
And thus, the temptation to use the Windows version instead.
snip

Wow, interesting... good to know. Erasing the config of the USB
chip... how bizarre!

I was recommending the DOS version of DFT or SeaTools for the OP's
Maxtor drive, which would be an older IDE drive. I don't recommend
the Windows version of SeaTools to anyone.... I dislike it and have
seen problems with it.

The really ironic part, was I'd heard about the Cypress issue before
(as more than just SeaTools can do that).

But like a twit, it never occurred to me to glance at the
chip when I had the enclosure open, and notice that *my* favorite
enclosure used a Cypress. As soon as it happened, like a flash of
lightning, I realize that I actually have one of those enclosures,
and I'd just toasted it :-) It took a while to find the
instructions and execute them successfully. You have to
install a driver first, that recognizes the now brain-dead
box, and allows it to be flashed. Similar to how someone
would flash it at the factory.

Were the instructions at a Cypress support page, or forum?

It looks like the page I used was moved somewhere. The archive
still has it. And luckily, the tool (EXE) also got archived.
The first link is to the tool download (flasher), the
second is the HOWTO with pictures.

http://web.archive.org/web/200710310...ad/DBFlash.exe

http://web.archive.org/web/200812051...articl eid=74

"Cypress At2LP RC58 driver problem"

The "Cypress At2LP RC58" part appears in Device Manager,
just after your drive disappears on you. That's how you
know you have the problem.

Cypress has a page as well, but this won't render unless
you have Adobe Flash loaded.

http://www.cypress.com/?id=4&rID=38494

"Question: How can I recover the data stored on my hard drive
when I get an error message saying "Install driver for
Cypress AT2LP RC42" or " Install driver for
Cypress AT2LP RC58"?

Answer: These error messages are not related to the Cypress
device, but rather the EEPROM attached to your hard
drive. The contents of the EEPROM may have been
corrupted.
Cypress has prepared this document to help you recover
your hard drive."

The EEPROM in that case, is probably connected to the Cypress
controller chip, not to the hard drive itself. And what
inquiring minds want to know, is why it isn't write protected.

There are similar sad cases, in some LCD monitors, where the
EDID EEPROM (similar in construction) gets overwritten.

Yes, inquiring minds... and why are they stating it is an issue with the
hard drive EEPROM, when it only seems to happen with drives connected to
their Cypress chip? If it looks like a duck...
--
Glen Ventura
MS MVP Oct. 2002 - Sept. 2009
CompTIA A+