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A Little Help Would Be Appreciated
I'm running WinXp-3 and in the past week I've had about 6 'Blue
Screens' telling me that one of my disks (C) is showing some inconsistency and then it runs Chkdisk and reboots (successfully). Is this a problem with the Boot Sector? Or something else? I'd appreciate some advice on this one, as it usually appears in the middle of some operation. Note: I should have included this in the post. Windows system identifies my boot drive as a Maxtor 6E040T0 "SCSI" Drive, but it is a SATA drive. I make no pretensions to be a drive expert, but does this make sense? |
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#2
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A Little Help Would Be Appreciated
Barry Bruyea wrote:
I'm running WinXp-3 and in the past week I've had about 6 'Blue Screens' telling me that one of my disks (C) is showing some inconsistency and then it runs Chkdisk and reboots (successfully). Is this a problem with the Boot Sector? Or something else? I'd appreciate some advice on this one, as it usually appears in the middle of some operation. Note: I should have included this in the post. Windows system identifies my boot drive as a Maxtor 6E040T0 "SCSI" Drive, but it is a SATA drive. I make no pretensions to be a drive expert, but does this make sense? The OS uses a pseudo-SCSI driver stack, with some kinds of hardware. Don't let this style of labeling upset you. I was working on a system with a Maxtor a couple weeks ago, and saw that SCSI thing, and it didn't make me freak out or anything. That's normal. If you look in Device Manager, you may find two entries in the storage section. One layer of the two layer deep driver model, may make reference to SCSI. And the reason that is done, is any chip that doesn't look like a classical IDE controller, can be accessed through a pseudo-SCSI model. Windows sends a SCSI CDB (basically a command block) to the driver. The driver translates the CDB into an IDE operation, and then sends that to the disk. Using that intermediate step, makes it easier for custom drivers to be written for strange hardware controllers. Your hard drive is not SCSI, but the driver stack can use SCSI-like command format for passing read/write requests. ******* As for the health of your disk. 1) Get a copy of the free HDTune. It has a Health tab which can access SMART coming from the disk. http://www.hdtune.com/files/hdtune_255.exe 2) Install it and run it. Click the Health tab. Go to the menu at the top, and select the disk drive you want information on. Important parameters a Parameter Current Worst Threshold Data Status --------- ------- ----- --------- ---- ------ Reallocated sector Count 100 100 36 0 OK ... Current Pending Sector 100 100 0 0 OK 3) Not all hardware setups will support SMART. For one, a hard drive can be so old, that no SMART exists inside it. It ignores queries about SMART. (Says here, it was introduced in 2004.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S.M.A.R.T Another reason, is the driver stack itself. It may not be able to pass SMART calls down to the disk, and then the statistics will not be available. In the two critical parameters I show above, you look at the Data column. When I see "zero" there, all is well. When I see a growing count, I begin to be a bit concerned. On the last disk I swapped out, the count had advanced to a couple hundred, and the disk still worked. A second test you can run, which also gives health information, is use the HDTUne read-only "benchmark" option. The response should be a gentle curve, with more bandwidth at the beginning of the disk than near the end. If the benchmark curve has a lot of downward spikes, that is an indicator of a lot of spared out sectors on the disk. It doesn't mean the disk is dead or anything, but you might want to change the disk out, before a catastrophe happens. At the very least, if you have any concerns about your system, do a backup. Macrium Reflect Free is available for example. It can be used to copy the computer internal disk, to an external USB hard drive, for safe keeping. You should prepare the (Linux based, no download needed) recovery CD that comes with Macrium Reflect Free, as that is needed when the new hard drive is installed, and no OS is present. When you boot that CD, Linux is not apparent, because the Macrium program takes control of the screen, and you can't even tell it's Linux. The OS is not important in the case of the recovery CD, since the user has no way to interact with the OS at all. The CD is effectively a "fixed function", like running a single program that takes over the computer. (Download link near the bottom) http://www.macrium.com/reflectfree.aspx Materials needed for Macrium... 1) Download the program and install it. 2) Purchase an external USB disk, to store the backup. If your internal disk is 40GB, the external should be at least that big. Large disks don't add much of a cost adder, and virtually any modern USB disk will be sufficient for your Maxtor. 3) Prepare the Macrium boot CD. You will need a blank writable CD, an optical disk drive with burning capability, and some burning software. If you don't have burning software already, Imgburn is free. Simply decline any tool bars or the like, if the installer for this attempts to install them. When I last downloaded this, there were no tool bars in the file... The URL for the imgburn site, is listed in this article. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imgburn In any case, if Macrium starts downloading a 1GB WAIK toolkit file from Microsoft, that's unnecessary. The Linux CD which is part of Macrium, is more than adequate for the average user. Test to make sure it boots, in case you need to do a restore from your new backup disk. If your Maxtor is IDE, it can be a bit harder to find an acceptable substitute. Newegg still showed a few the last time I looked, and they seemed to have shown up since the flooding of the disk plants a couple years ago. I don't know what country they came from, but they didn't appear to be old stock, but rather products made recently in some other disk drive plant. (For example, one of the bought out companies, had a disk drive plant in Hungary.) So there may still be some IDE (ribbon cable) drives for sale. You can thank the flood for bringing a few of those back from the grave. (Just to show they still exist, if you need one...) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822136457 With the old IDE drives, you need to install jumper plugs on the back, as a function of the drive configuration. Info on this has been posted many times, but if you need help, post back. HTH, Paul |
#3
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A Little Help Would Be Appreciated
On Thu, 21 Feb 2013 13:11:43 -0500, Paul wrote:
Barry Bruyea wrote: I'm running WinXp-3 and in the past week I've had about 6 'Blue Screens' telling me that one of my disks (C) is showing some inconsistency and then it runs Chkdisk and reboots (successfully). Is this a problem with the Boot Sector? Or something else? I'd appreciate some advice on this one, as it usually appears in the middle of some operation. Note: I should have included this in the post. Windows system identifies my boot drive as a Maxtor 6E040T0 "SCSI" Drive, but it is a SATA drive. I make no pretensions to be a drive expert, but does this make sense? The OS uses a pseudo-SCSI driver stack, with some kinds of hardware. Don't let this style of labeling upset you. I was working on a system with a Maxtor a couple weeks ago, and saw that SCSI thing, and it didn't make me freak out or anything. That's normal. If you look in Device Manager, you may find two entries in the storage section. One layer of the two layer deep driver model, may make reference to SCSI. And the reason that is done, is any chip that doesn't look like a classical IDE controller, can be accessed through a pseudo-SCSI model. Windows sends a SCSI CDB (basically a command block) to the driver. The driver translates the CDB into an IDE operation, and then sends that to the disk. Using that intermediate step, makes it easier for custom drivers to be written for strange hardware controllers. Your hard drive is not SCSI, but the driver stack can use SCSI-like command format for passing read/write requests. ******* As for the health of your disk. 1) Get a copy of the free HDTune. It has a Health tab which can access SMART coming from the disk. http://www.hdtune.com/files/hdtune_255.exe 2) Install it and run it. Click the Health tab. Go to the menu at the top, and select the disk drive you want information on. Important parameters a Parameter Current Worst Threshold Data Status --------- ------- ----- --------- ---- ------ Reallocated sector Count 100 100 36 0 OK ... Current Pending Sector 100 100 0 0 OK 3) Not all hardware setups will support SMART. For one, a hard drive can be so old, that no SMART exists inside it. It ignores queries about SMART. (Says here, it was introduced in 2004.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S.M.A.R.T Another reason, is the driver stack itself. It may not be able to pass SMART calls down to the disk, and then the statistics will not be available. In the two critical parameters I show above, you look at the Data column. When I see "zero" there, all is well. When I see a growing count, I begin to be a bit concerned. On the last disk I swapped out, the count had advanced to a couple hundred, and the disk still worked. A second test you can run, which also gives health information, is use the HDTUne read-only "benchmark" option. The response should be a gentle curve, with more bandwidth at the beginning of the disk than near the end. If the benchmark curve has a lot of downward spikes, that is an indicator of a lot of spared out sectors on the disk. It doesn't mean the disk is dead or anything, but you might want to change the disk out, before a catastrophe happens. At the very least, if you have any concerns about your system, do a backup. Macrium Reflect Free is available for example. It can be used to copy the computer internal disk, to an external USB hard drive, for safe keeping. You should prepare the (Linux based, no download needed) recovery CD that comes with Macrium Reflect Free, as that is needed when the new hard drive is installed, and no OS is present. When you boot that CD, Linux is not apparent, because the Macrium program takes control of the screen, and you can't even tell it's Linux. The OS is not important in the case of the recovery CD, since the user has no way to interact with the OS at all. The CD is effectively a "fixed function", like running a single program that takes over the computer. (Download link near the bottom) http://www.macrium.com/reflectfree.aspx Materials needed for Macrium... 1) Download the program and install it. 2) Purchase an external USB disk, to store the backup. If your internal disk is 40GB, the external should be at least that big. Large disks don't add much of a cost adder, and virtually any modern USB disk will be sufficient for your Maxtor. 3) Prepare the Macrium boot CD. You will need a blank writable CD, an optical disk drive with burning capability, and some burning software. If you don't have burning software already, Imgburn is free. Simply decline any tool bars or the like, if the installer for this attempts to install them. When I last downloaded this, there were no tool bars in the file... The URL for the imgburn site, is listed in this article. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imgburn In any case, if Macrium starts downloading a 1GB WAIK toolkit file from Microsoft, that's unnecessary. The Linux CD which is part of Macrium, is more than adequate for the average user. Test to make sure it boots, in case you need to do a restore from your new backup disk. If your Maxtor is IDE, it can be a bit harder to find an acceptable substitute. Newegg still showed a few the last time I looked, and they seemed to have shown up since the flooding of the disk plants a couple years ago. I don't know what country they came from, but they didn't appear to be old stock, but rather products made recently in some other disk drive plant. (For example, one of the bought out companies, had a disk drive plant in Hungary.) So there may still be some IDE (ribbon cable) drives for sale. You can thank the flood for bringing a few of those back from the grave. (Just to show they still exist, if you need one...) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822136457 With the old IDE drives, you need to install jumper plugs on the back, as a function of the drive configuration. Info on this has been posted many times, but if you need help, post back. HTH, Paul Paul, I really appreciate the effort you have put into your reply and I will certainly take advantage of your suggestions and post back what I did or had to do. I hope it isn't having to get a new disk. |
#4
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A Little Help Would Be Appreciated
"Barry Bruyea" wrote in message
... Paul, I really appreciate the effort you have put into your reply and I will certainly take advantage of your suggestions and post back what I did or had to do. I hope it isn't having to get a new disk. SMART results are useful, but you should not rely solely on SMART, or the quick test HDTune does. Create a drive diagnostic boot CD to test your drive. With an older Maxtor, you can use Hitachi Drive Fitness test (DFT) or SeaTools for DOS. DFT for DOS: http://www.hgst.com/support/index-fi...-downloads#DFT SeaTools for DOD: http://www.seagate.com/support/inter...ls-dos-master/ -- Glen Ventura MS MVP Oct. 2002 - Sept. 2009 CompTIA A+ |
#5
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A Little Help Would Be Appreciated
glee wrote:
"Barry Bruyea" wrote in message ... Paul, I really appreciate the effort you have put into your reply and I will certainly take advantage of your suggestions and post back what I did or had to do. I hope it isn't having to get a new disk. SMART results are useful, but you should not rely solely on SMART, or the quick test HDTune does. Create a drive diagnostic boot CD to test your drive. With an older Maxtor, you can use Hitachi Drive Fitness test (DFT) or SeaTools for DOS. DFT for DOS: http://www.hgst.com/support/index-fi...-downloads#DFT SeaTools for DOD: http://www.seagate.com/support/inter...ls-dos-master/ With the caveat that SeaTools damaged my USB drive enclosure. One of the two versions of SeaTools, doesn't handle USB drives. The other (possibly the Windows version), does. And it erased the configuration area of the USB chip. I had to dig up an old recipe, of how to re-flash it. The enclosure ends up no longer knowomg it is a USB storage device. The problem affects Cypress controllers on USB disk enclosures. If you use that version of Seatools, disconnect any Cypress based disk enclosures first. The DOS version is probably OK. A problem with the DOS version, is it doesn't support all possible disk controllers. My two newest computers don't work with the DOS version. And thus, the temptation to use the Windows version instead. ******* I don't claim that there is a positive correlation between SMART results and real life. Merely that, as an *arbitrary* criterion for replacement, it's an early warning. I've certainly worked with people, who continue to use duff hard drives until the day they croak, and that's your prerogative (like the people who "polish" their drives with Spinrite). I just find it easier to "clean up a mess", before it happens, and not after. If you pull a drive prematurely, it can still be placed in the rotation for experimental OS installations. As a scratch disk when editing a video perhaps. Anything where the only copy of data is not stored on that drive. I still keep my "half-bad" drives in the rotation, but with a notation written on top in marker pen, that it's not for archival or permanent storage. Paul |
#6
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A Little Help Would Be Appreciated
"Paul" wrote in message
... glee wrote: "Barry Bruyea" wrote in message ... Paul, I really appreciate the effort you have put into your reply and I will certainly take advantage of your suggestions and post back what I did or had to do. I hope it isn't having to get a new disk. SMART results are useful, but you should not rely solely on SMART, or the quick test HDTune does. Create a drive diagnostic boot CD to test your drive. With an older Maxtor, you can use Hitachi Drive Fitness test (DFT) or SeaTools for DOS. DFT for DOS: http://www.hgst.com/support/index-fi...-downloads#DFT SeaTools for DOD: http://www.seagate.com/support/inter...ls-dos-master/ With the caveat that SeaTools damaged my USB drive enclosure. One of the two versions of SeaTools, doesn't handle USB drives. The other (possibly the Windows version), does. And it erased the configuration area of the USB chip. I had to dig up an old recipe, of how to re-flash it. The enclosure ends up no longer knowomg it is a USB storage device. The problem affects Cypress controllers on USB disk enclosures. If you use that version of Seatools, disconnect any Cypress based disk enclosures first. The DOS version is probably OK. A problem with the DOS version, is it doesn't support all possible disk controllers. My two newest computers don't work with the DOS version. And thus, the temptation to use the Windows version instead. snip Wow, interesting... good to know. Erasing the config of the USB chip... how bizarre! I was recommending the DOS version of DFT or SeaTools for the OP's Maxtor drive, which would be an older IDE drive. I don't recommend the Windows version of SeaTools to anyone.... I dislike it and have seen problems with it. -- Glen Ventura MS MVP Oct. 2002 - Sept. 2009 CompTIA A+ |
#7
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A Little Help Would Be Appreciated
glee wrote:
"Paul" wrote in message With the caveat that SeaTools damaged my USB drive enclosure. One of the two versions of SeaTools, doesn't handle USB drives. The other (possibly the Windows version), does. And it erased the configuration area of the USB chip. I had to dig up an old recipe, of how to re-flash it. The enclosure ends up no longer knowomg it is a USB storage device. The problem affects Cypress controllers on USB disk enclosures. If you use that version of Seatools, disconnect any Cypress based disk enclosures first. The DOS version is probably OK. A problem with the DOS version, is it doesn't support all possible disk controllers. My two newest computers don't work with the DOS version. And thus, the temptation to use the Windows version instead. snip Wow, interesting... good to know. Erasing the config of the USB chip... how bizarre! I was recommending the DOS version of DFT or SeaTools for the OP's Maxtor drive, which would be an older IDE drive. I don't recommend the Windows version of SeaTools to anyone.... I dislike it and have seen problems with it. The really ironic part, was I'd heard about the Cypress issue before (as more than just SeaTools can do that). But like a twit, it never occurred to me to glance at the chip when I had the enclosure open, and notice that *my* favorite enclosure used a Cypress. As soon as it happened, like a flash of lightning, I realize that I actually have one of those enclosures, and I'd just toasted it :-) It took a while to find the instructions and execute them successfully. You have to install a driver first, that recognizes the now brain-dead box, and allows it to be flashed. Similar to how someone would flash it at the factory. Paul |
#8
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A Little Help Would Be Appreciated
"Paul" wrote in message
... glee wrote: "Paul" wrote in message With the caveat that SeaTools damaged my USB drive enclosure. One of the two versions of SeaTools, doesn't handle USB drives. The other (possibly the Windows version), does. And it erased the configuration area of the USB chip. I had to dig up an old recipe, of how to re-flash it. The enclosure ends up no longer knowomg it is a USB storage device. The problem affects Cypress controllers on USB disk enclosures. If you use that version of Seatools, disconnect any Cypress based disk enclosures first. The DOS version is probably OK. A problem with the DOS version, is it doesn't support all possible disk controllers. My two newest computers don't work with the DOS version. And thus, the temptation to use the Windows version instead. snip Wow, interesting... good to know. Erasing the config of the USB chip... how bizarre! I was recommending the DOS version of DFT or SeaTools for the OP's Maxtor drive, which would be an older IDE drive. I don't recommend the Windows version of SeaTools to anyone.... I dislike it and have seen problems with it. The really ironic part, was I'd heard about the Cypress issue before (as more than just SeaTools can do that). But like a twit, it never occurred to me to glance at the chip when I had the enclosure open, and notice that *my* favorite enclosure used a Cypress. As soon as it happened, like a flash of lightning, I realize that I actually have one of those enclosures, and I'd just toasted it :-) It took a while to find the instructions and execute them successfully. You have to install a driver first, that recognizes the now brain-dead box, and allows it to be flashed. Similar to how someone would flash it at the factory. Were the instructions at a Cypress support page, or forum? -- Glen Ventura MS MVP Oct. 2002 - Sept. 2009 CompTIA A+ |
#9
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A Little Help Would Be Appreciated
glee wrote:
"Paul" wrote in message ... glee wrote: "Paul" wrote in message With the caveat that SeaTools damaged my USB drive enclosure. One of the two versions of SeaTools, doesn't handle USB drives. The other (possibly the Windows version), does. And it erased the configuration area of the USB chip. I had to dig up an old recipe, of how to re-flash it. The enclosure ends up no longer knowomg it is a USB storage device. The problem affects Cypress controllers on USB disk enclosures. If you use that version of Seatools, disconnect any Cypress based disk enclosures first. The DOS version is probably OK. A problem with the DOS version, is it doesn't support all possible disk controllers. My two newest computers don't work with the DOS version. And thus, the temptation to use the Windows version instead. snip Wow, interesting... good to know. Erasing the config of the USB chip... how bizarre! I was recommending the DOS version of DFT or SeaTools for the OP's Maxtor drive, which would be an older IDE drive. I don't recommend the Windows version of SeaTools to anyone.... I dislike it and have seen problems with it. The really ironic part, was I'd heard about the Cypress issue before (as more than just SeaTools can do that). But like a twit, it never occurred to me to glance at the chip when I had the enclosure open, and notice that *my* favorite enclosure used a Cypress. As soon as it happened, like a flash of lightning, I realize that I actually have one of those enclosures, and I'd just toasted it :-) It took a while to find the instructions and execute them successfully. You have to install a driver first, that recognizes the now brain-dead box, and allows it to be flashed. Similar to how someone would flash it at the factory. Were the instructions at a Cypress support page, or forum? It looks like the page I used was moved somewhere. The archive still has it. And luckily, the tool (EXE) also got archived. The first link is to the tool download (flasher), the second is the HOWTO with pictures. http://web.archive.org/web/200710310...ad/DBFlash.exe http://web.archive.org/web/200812051...articl eid=74 "Cypress At2LP RC58 driver problem" The "Cypress At2LP RC58" part appears in Device Manager, just after your drive disappears on you. That's how you know you have the problem. Cypress has a page as well, but this won't render unless you have Adobe Flash loaded. http://www.cypress.com/?id=4&rID=38494 "Question: How can I recover the data stored on my hard drive when I get an error message saying "Install driver for Cypress AT2LP RC42" or " Install driver for Cypress AT2LP RC58"? Answer: These error messages are not related to the Cypress device, but rather the EEPROM attached to your hard drive. The contents of the EEPROM may have been corrupted. Cypress has prepared this document to help you recover your hard drive." The EEPROM in that case, is probably connected to the Cypress controller chip, not to the hard drive itself. And what inquiring minds want to know, is why it isn't write protected. There are similar sad cases, in some LCD monitors, where the EDID EEPROM (similar in construction) gets overwritten. Paul |
#10
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A Little Help Would Be Appreciated
From: "glee"
Wow, interesting... good to know. Erasing the config of the USB chip... how bizarre! I was recommending the DOS version of DFT or SeaTools for the OP's Maxtor drive, which would be an older IDE drive. I don't recommend the Windows version of SeaTools to anyone.... I dislike it and have seen problems with it. My sentiments exactly. Always get the ISO image and burn a CD such that you boot outside the OS of the affected hard disk. IBM/Hitachi - DFT SeaGate - SeaTools WD - WD Diagnostics. -- Dave Multi-AV Scanning Tool - http://multi-av.thespykiller.co.uk http://www.pctipp.ch/downloads/dl/35905.asp |
#11
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A Little Help Would Be Appreciated
"Paul" wrote in message
... glee wrote: "Paul" wrote in message ... glee wrote: "Paul" wrote in message With the caveat that SeaTools damaged my USB drive enclosure. One of the two versions of SeaTools, doesn't handle USB drives. The other (possibly the Windows version), does. And it erased the configuration area of the USB chip. I had to dig up an old recipe, of how to re-flash it. The enclosure ends up no longer knowomg it is a USB storage device. The problem affects Cypress controllers on USB disk enclosures. If you use that version of Seatools, disconnect any Cypress based disk enclosures first. The DOS version is probably OK. A problem with the DOS version, is it doesn't support all possible disk controllers. My two newest computers don't work with the DOS version. And thus, the temptation to use the Windows version instead. snip Wow, interesting... good to know. Erasing the config of the USB chip... how bizarre! I was recommending the DOS version of DFT or SeaTools for the OP's Maxtor drive, which would be an older IDE drive. I don't recommend the Windows version of SeaTools to anyone.... I dislike it and have seen problems with it. The really ironic part, was I'd heard about the Cypress issue before (as more than just SeaTools can do that). But like a twit, it never occurred to me to glance at the chip when I had the enclosure open, and notice that *my* favorite enclosure used a Cypress. As soon as it happened, like a flash of lightning, I realize that I actually have one of those enclosures, and I'd just toasted it :-) It took a while to find the instructions and execute them successfully. You have to install a driver first, that recognizes the now brain-dead box, and allows it to be flashed. Similar to how someone would flash it at the factory. Were the instructions at a Cypress support page, or forum? It looks like the page I used was moved somewhere. The archive still has it. And luckily, the tool (EXE) also got archived. The first link is to the tool download (flasher), the second is the HOWTO with pictures. http://web.archive.org/web/200710310...ad/DBFlash.exe http://web.archive.org/web/200812051...articl eid=74 "Cypress At2LP RC58 driver problem" The "Cypress At2LP RC58" part appears in Device Manager, just after your drive disappears on you. That's how you know you have the problem. Cypress has a page as well, but this won't render unless you have Adobe Flash loaded. http://www.cypress.com/?id=4&rID=38494 "Question: How can I recover the data stored on my hard drive when I get an error message saying "Install driver for Cypress AT2LP RC42" or " Install driver for Cypress AT2LP RC58"? Answer: These error messages are not related to the Cypress device, but rather the EEPROM attached to your hard drive. The contents of the EEPROM may have been corrupted. Cypress has prepared this document to help you recover your hard drive." The EEPROM in that case, is probably connected to the Cypress controller chip, not to the hard drive itself. And what inquiring minds want to know, is why it isn't write protected. There are similar sad cases, in some LCD monitors, where the EDID EEPROM (similar in construction) gets overwritten. Yes, inquiring minds... and why are they stating it is an issue with the hard drive EEPROM, when it only seems to happen with drives connected to their Cypress chip? If it looks like a duck... -- Glen Ventura MS MVP Oct. 2002 - Sept. 2009 CompTIA A+ |
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