POWER SUPPLY

I just got a new celeron 2600 Mhz and upgraded my system (the cpu was 1800
mhz before). After doing so, my powersuply (300W for pentium4) was burned
out.
So I thought I was just unlucky and installed an exact similar power supply
from another computer I had..... and that was burned out too!
Now the thing is that the computer worked fine with the other CPU... is the
power needed by the new CPU so much ???? I did not expect this to happen
since the supply does say that it is for a pentium 4 pc.. and pentium 4s are
even faster than this new celeron I have! Any ideas???
Has anybody an idea what kind of power supplies computers with celerons @
2600 have?




thanks


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oh and another thing... the power supplies did not fail at once but after
about 1-2 hours of uptime.

--
--
.....Creativity is intelligence having fun !.....;-)

For the ones reading technical replies, I would them (if they are kind
enough) to give
me their feedback with another post (in the same thread of course), so I
will know if my advice helped them or not.

Kenny S www.talentgrid.com
www.computerboom.net
"KnightOfTheKingOfPop" wrote in message
...

I just got a new celeron 2600 Mhz and upgraded my system (the cpu was 1800
mhz before). After doing so, my powersuply (300W for pentium4) was burned
out.
So I thought I was just unlucky and installed an exact similar power
supply
from another computer I had..... and that was burned out too!
Now the thing is that the computer worked fine with the other CPU... is
the
power needed by the new CPU so much ???? I did not expect this to happen
since the supply does say that it is for a pentium 4 pc.. and pentium 4s
are
even faster than this new celeron I have! Any ideas???
Has anybody an idea what kind of power supplies computers with celerons @
2600 have?




thanks


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.504 / Virus Database: 302 - Release Date: 24/7/2003




---
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It could be coincidental that the power supplies burned out, or it could be
that you've got another issue. Considering that many of the big oems are
still using 180-watt power supplies with their systems, I doubt that wattage
was the only issue. And for what it's worth, I've never seen a power supply
burn out because it was underpowered. It would be more likely that computer
components wouldn't work well.

And you installed an identical "used" power supply. Maybe they were both
just old enough, clogged enough with dust, or used enough to die at the same
time.

First, don't buy cheap power supplies. If I had the choice between cheap PS
with high wattage and a good brand with medium wattage, I'd go with the good
brand.

Second, you could have problems with incoming power, a bad power strip, etc.
Or you could have internal problems in the computer. A short, overheating,
etc.

"KnightOfTheKingOfPop" wrote in message
...
oh and another thing... the power supplies did not fail at once but after
about 1-2 hours of uptime.

--
--
....Creativity is intelligence having fun !.....;-)

For the ones reading technical replies, I would them (if they are kind
enough) to give
me their feedback with another post (in the same thread of course), so I
will know if my advice helped them or not.

Kenny S www.talentgrid.com
www.computerboom.net
"KnightOfTheKingOfPop" wrote in message
...

I just got a new celeron 2600 Mhz and upgraded my system (the cpu was
1800
mhz before). After doing so, my powersuply (300W for pentium4) was
burned
out.
So I thought I was just unlucky and installed an exact similar power
supply
from another computer I had..... and that was burned out too!
Now the thing is that the computer worked fine with the other CPU... is
the
power needed by the new CPU so much ???? I did not expect this to happen

since the supply does say that it is for a pentium 4 pc.. and pentium 4s
are
even faster than this new celeron I have! Any ideas???
Has anybody an idea what kind of power supplies computers with celerons
@
2600 have?




thanks


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.504 / Virus Database: 302 - Release Date: 24/7/2003




---
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The power required for a 2.6 vs a 1.8 Celeron would only be
a very few watts unless there was some fault in the new CPU
but that is not likely if the computer booted.
A more likely problem would be some wire out of place that
would vibrate into contact, causing a short which
over-loaded the PSU. I would give the entire computer a
close visual inspection, looking for damaged wires. a stray
part behind the motherboard, a scorch or soot mark.

If the computer was running well before the CPU swap and the
problem developed afterward, something that was done or not
done caused the problem. The computer was open, parts were
removed and re-installed. Excess pressure could have
damaged the mobo, a screw could have fallen behind the mobo,
you'll just have to troubleshoot the problem without buying
a dozen PSU.



"KnightOfTheKingOfPop" wrote in message
...
| oh and another thing... the power supplies did not fail at
once but after
| about 1-2 hours of uptime.
|
| --
| --
| ....Creativity is intelligence having fun !.....;-)
|
| For the ones reading technical replies, I would them (if
they are kind
| enough) to give
| me their feedback with another post (in the same thread of
course), so I
| will know if my advice helped them or not.
|
| Kenny S www.talentgrid.com
| www.computerboom.net
| "KnightOfTheKingOfPop" wrote in message
| ...
|
| I just got a new celeron 2600 Mhz and upgraded my system
(the cpu was 1800
| mhz before). After doing so, my powersuply (300W for
pentium4) was burned
| out.
| So I thought I was just unlucky and installed an exact
similar power
| supply
| from another computer I had..... and that was burned out
too!
| Now the thing is that the computer worked fine with the
other CPU... is
| the
| power needed by the new CPU so much ???? I did not
expect this to happen
| since the supply does say that it is for a pentium 4
pc.. and pentium 4s
| are
| even faster than this new celeron I have! Any ideas???
| Has anybody an idea what kind of power supplies
computers with celerons @
| 2600 have?
|
|
|
|
| thanks
|
|
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| Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
| Checked by AVG anti-virus system
(http://www.grisoft.com).
| Version: 6.0.504 / Virus Database: 302 - Release Date:
24/7/2003
|
|
|
|
| ---
| Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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24/7/2003
|
|

"KnightOfTheKingOfPop" wrote in message
...

I just got a new celeron 2600 Mhz and upgraded my system (the cpu was 1800
mhz before). After doing so, my powersuply (300W for pentium4) was burned
out.
So I thought I was just unlucky and installed an exact similar power
supply
from another computer I had..... and that was burned out too!
Now the thing is that the computer worked fine with the other CPU... is
the
power needed by the new CPU so much ???? I did not expect this to happen
since the supply does say that it is for a pentium 4 pc.. and pentium 4s
are
even faster than this new celeron I have! Any ideas???
Has anybody an idea what kind of power supplies computers with celerons @
2600 have?




thanks


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.504 / Virus Database: 302 - Release Date: 24/7/2003

The Pentium 4 part of your PSU describes the fact that in addition to the 20
pin ATX connector, there is a 4 pin connector and a 12 (?) pin AT style
connector, where a normal ATX only has the 20 pin.

That's all a Pentium 4 PSU means.

Now, the total output of the PSU cannot be less than the total required
(max) by the sum of the PC's components. Thus, if you have several hard
drives, a monster graphics card, a power hungry CPU, such as this 2.6GHz
Celeron, the total max required is greater than the output, and that causes
problems.

Perhaps you can bring back the 2nd PSU and claim it was defective, and then
buy something better. Atleast a 400W, this time, and don't get the cheapest
one there. Many of the 400s actually give out closer to the 350 range than
the 400 they advertise. Then again, you can get an Enermax 470W, which I
believe is the most watts possible.

This should fix your troubles. If it doesn't then your going to have to do
some really funky stuff. This would probably mean running a PC with 2 PSUs!
The cases are hard to find, or you can modify your current case....make a
hump in the back. Shouldn't come to this, tho..... (Some of the file
server PCs with dual CPUs may need dual PSU cases. One of them runs the
motherboard & CPUs, the other runs the hard drives....if not necessary, I
guess it is more stable atleast).

I don't know if this applies to your cpu, but it is possible to
install the fan going in the wrong direction ontop of the cpu,
at least on my AMD 2000/2400 cpu.

"KnightOfTheKingOfPop" wrote in message
...

I just got a new celeron 2600 Mhz and upgraded my system (the cpu was 1800
mhz before). After doing so, my powersuply (300W for pentium4) was burned
out.
So I thought I was just unlucky and installed an exact similar power
supply
from another computer I had..... and that was burned out too!
Now the thing is that the computer worked fine with the other CPU... is
the
power needed by the new CPU so much ???? I did not expect this to happen
since the supply does say that it is for a pentium 4 pc.. and pentium 4s
are
even faster than this new celeron I have! Any ideas???
Has anybody an idea what kind of power supplies computers with celerons @
2600 have?




thanks


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.504 / Virus Database: 302 - Release Date: 24/7/2003

KnightOfTheKingOfPop wrote:

I just got a new celeron 2600 Mhz and upgraded my system (the cpu was 1800
mhz before). After doing so, my powersuply (300W for pentium4) was burned
out.
So I thought I was just unlucky and installed an exact similar power supply
from another computer I had..... and that was burned out too!
Now the thing is that the computer worked fine with the other CPU... is the
power needed by the new CPU so much ???? I did not expect this to happen
since the supply does say that it is for a pentium 4 pc.. and pentium 4s are
even faster than this new celeron I have! Any ideas???
Has anybody an idea what kind of power supplies computers with celerons @
2600 have?




thanks


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.504 / Virus Database: 302 - Release Date: 24/7/2003


APC has a UPS selector at http://tinyurl.com/80ex Although it's
intended to be used to size a UPS that supplies several components
(e.g., PC, monitor, other externals), you can select "no monitor" and
see what their suggestion (very conservative) is. For example, a
Celeron 1.5 GHz, no monitor, and 2 internal hard drives in a tower
case (which I guess they assume is populated with more internals than a
mini-tower) could be supported by a 200 watt UPS. Based on this, and on
the observation that the APC UPS sizer only distinguishes between
Celerons 1.5 GHz and Celerons 1.5 GHz, I'd guess that you have some
problem other than an undersized power supply. Follow the suggestions
in Jim Macklin's post.

Thank you the expanation about why the P4 PSU power supply is called that
way, it is something that I did not know at all! I have sent the 1st burned
psu and have said it is defective and I have ordered the best quality PSU I
could find, that is a 450 watt dual fan one. Good quality. I am not in the
US so I cannot find the one you say... but this one is something at first I
thought I would never buy. I have studied electronics so I have thought
about the 2 PSU solution even though I didnt know people actually do it, and
I am crazy enough to do such a thing, however, this is my main home computer
and I dont want to experiment on it. I want it to have a normal PSU that
will power my PC 24h 7days a week. I will look again for some error on the
cables.. since it does seem strange that only a different CPU (and its fan
and cooler that came with it since it was a CELERON BOX) could make the
system break down.

thanks again for your nice relpy


"KnightOfTheKingOfPop" wrote in message
...

I just got a new celeron 2600 Mhz and upgraded my system (the cpu was
1800
mhz before). After doing so, my powersuply (300W for pentium4) was
burned
out.
So I thought I was just unlucky and installed an exact similar power
supply
from another computer I had..... and that was burned out too!
Now the thing is that the computer worked fine with the other CPU... is
the
power needed by the new CPU so much ???? I did not expect this to happen
since the supply does say that it is for a pentium 4 pc.. and pentium 4s
are
even faster than this new celeron I have! Any ideas???
Has anybody an idea what kind of power supplies computers with celerons
@
2600 have?




thanks


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.504 / Virus Database: 302 - Release Date: 24/7/2003

The Pentium 4 part of your PSU describes the fact that in addition to the
20
pin ATX connector, there is a 4 pin connector and a 12 (?) pin AT style
connector, where a normal ATX only has the 20 pin.

That's all a Pentium 4 PSU means.

Now, the total output of the PSU cannot be less than the total required
(max) by the sum of the PC's components. Thus, if you have several hard
drives, a monster graphics card, a power hungry CPU, such as this 2.6GHz
Celeron, the total max required is greater than the output, and that
causes
problems.

Perhaps you can bring back the 2nd PSU and claim it was defective, and
then
buy something better. Atleast a 400W, this time, and don't get the
cheapest
one there. Many of the 400s actually give out closer to the 350 range
than
the 400 they advertise. Then again, you can get an Enermax 470W, which I
believe is the most watts possible.

This should fix your troubles. If it doesn't then your going to have to
do
some really funky stuff. This would probably mean running a PC with 2
PSUs!
The cases are hard to find, or you can modify your current case....make a
hump in the back. Shouldn't come to this, tho..... (Some of the file
server PCs with dual CPUs may need dual PSU cases. One of them runs the
motherboard & CPUs, the other runs the hard drives....if not necessary, I
guess it is more stable atleast).




---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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No power supply containing essential functions can be
damaged by too much load or by a computer. In fact, all
acceptable computer power supply can have all outputs shorted
- and power supply is not damaged. Intel goes so far as to
even define gauge of that shorting wire!

300 watt supplies are typically sufficient for any P4
system. However a scary number of supplies don't even contain
essential functions - let alone provide their rated power.
Many recommend 400 and 450 watt supplies because their 300
watt supply could not even provide stable power near that full
load - 300 watts. Too many hype power and monetary costs
rather than first demand a long list of specs.

If the power supply does not come with a long list of
detailed 'electrical engineering' type specifications, then it
probably could not even supply 300 watts. And if that 450
watt supply also does not come with that long list, then
expect the worst. Some of the specs that any minimally
acceptable supply claims to meet in writing:
Specification compliance: ATX 2.03 & ATX12V v1.1
Acoustics noise 25.8dBA typical at 70w, 30cm
Short circuit protection on all outputs
Over voltage protection
Over power protection
100% hi-pot test
100% burn in, high temperature cycled on/off
PFC harmonics compliance: EN61000-3-2 + A1 + A2
EMI/RFI compliance: CE, CISPR22 & FCC part 15 class B
Safety compliance: VDE, TUV, D, N, S, Fi, UL, C-UL & CB
Hold up time, full load: 16ms. typical
Efficiency; 100-120VAC and full range: 65%
Dielectric withstand, input to frame/ground: 1800VAC, 1sec.
Dielectric withstand, input to output: 1800VAC, 1sec.
Ripple/noise: 1%
MTBF, full load @ 25°C amb.: 100k hrs

No minimally acceptable supply is ever damaged by the load.
Also a failing power supply must not damage any other computer
component. But to sell power supplies at *good* prices, then
these essential functions are missing. Cheap supplies can't
be bothered to claim to meet those above specs.

Is it really a "good" supply. Very first requirement -
where are the specifications?

KnightOfTheKingOfPop wrote:
Thank you the expanation about why the P4 PSU power supply is called that
way, it is something that I did not know at all! I have sent the 1st burned
psu and have said it is defective and I have ordered the best quality PSU I
could find, that is a 450 watt dual fan one. Good quality. I am not in the
US so I cannot find the one you say... but this one is something at first I
thought I would never buy. I have studied electronics so I have thought
about the 2 PSU solution even though I didnt know people actually do it, and
I am crazy enough to do such a thing, however, this is my main home computer
and I dont want to experiment on it. I want it to have a normal PSU that
will power my PC 24h 7days a week. I will look again for some error on the
cables.. since it does seem strange that only a different CPU (and its fan
and cooler that came with it since it was a CELERON BOX) could make the
system break down.

Direction of airflow in a CPU heatsink is irrelevant.
Cooling is provided by the LFM - airflow in either direction.

Stephen Harris wrote:
I don't know if this applies to your cpu, but it is possible to
install the fan going in the wrong direction ontop of the cpu,
at least on my AMD 2000/2400 cpu.

Do you have a little meter ?
Set the cables to ground and "one at a time" the 12 volt and 5 volts lines.
See how much the voltage drop...... too much ?
Remove the cards and everything, just a floopy and try again.
Now if your voltage still drops down, you do have something pulling too much
current from
the ps... you could keep removing things and keep track of the current flow.

Orlando Gondar
Gondar Electronics ( www.gondarelectronics.com )
A Microsoft System Builders Member

"Lem" wrote in message
...
KnightOfTheKingOfPop wrote:

I just got a new celeron 2600 Mhz and upgraded my system (the cpu was
1800
mhz before). After doing so, my powersuply (300W for pentium4) was
burned
out.
So I thought I was just unlucky and installed an exact similar power
supply
from another computer I had..... and that was burned out too!
Now the thing is that the computer worked fine with the other CPU... is
the
power needed by the new CPU so much ???? I did not expect this to happen
since the supply does say that it is for a pentium 4 pc.. and pentium 4s
are
even faster than this new celeron I have! Any ideas???
Has anybody an idea what kind of power supplies computers with celerons
@
2600 have?




thanks


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.504 / Virus Database: 302 - Release Date: 24/7/2003


APC has a UPS selector at http://tinyurl.com/80ex Although it's
intended to be used to size a UPS that supplies several components
(e.g., PC, monitor, other externals), you can select "no monitor" and
see what their suggestion (very conservative) is. For example, a
Celeron 1.5 GHz, no monitor, and 2 internal hard drives in a tower
case (which I guess they assume is populated with more internals than a
mini-tower) could be supported by a 200 watt UPS. Based on this, and on
the observation that the APC UPS sizer only distinguishes between
Celerons 1.5 GHz and Celerons 1.5 GHz, I'd guess that you have some
problem other than an undersized power supply. Follow the suggestions
in Jim Macklin's post.

I have contructed powersupplies for general use. A powersupply can be
damaged by overheating if the drain is too much, as in this case (I think
this is true). A power supply does have protection for short circuits but
this is only for a few moments (the test is to have it shorted for 5
minuites).
Anyway I checked every cable connection again, and I cannot see any error.
However for me to be sure I will take the whole computer for test at the
place that they will install the new high power supply. I usually fix things
myself
but this is too strange to risk another 50 dollar (euro) power supply on.

"w_tom" wrote in message
...
No power supply containing essential functions can be
damaged by too much load or by a computer. In fact, all
acceptable computer power supply can have all outputs shorted
- and power supply is not damaged. Intel goes so far as to
even define gauge of that shorting wire!

300 watt supplies are typically sufficient for any P4
system. However a scary number of supplies don't even contain
essential functions - let alone provide their rated power.
Many recommend 400 and 450 watt supplies because their 300
watt supply could not even provide stable power near that full
load - 300 watts. Too many hype power and monetary costs
rather than first demand a long list of specs.

If the power supply does not come with a long list of
detailed 'electrical engineering' type specifications, then it
probably could not even supply 300 watts. And if that 450
watt supply also does not come with that long list, then
expect the worst. Some of the specs that any minimally
acceptable supply claims to meet in writing:
Specification compliance: ATX 2.03 & ATX12V v1.1
Acoustics noise 25.8dBA typical at 70w, 30cm
Short circuit protection on all outputs
Over voltage protection
Over power protection
100% hi-pot test
100% burn in, high temperature cycled on/off
PFC harmonics compliance: EN61000-3-2 + A1 + A2
EMI/RFI compliance: CE, CISPR22 & FCC part 15 class B
Safety compliance: VDE, TUV, D, N, S, Fi, UL, C-UL & CB
Hold up time, full load: 16ms. typical
Efficiency; 100-120VAC and full range: 65%
Dielectric withstand, input to frame/ground: 1800VAC, 1sec.
Dielectric withstand, input to output: 1800VAC, 1sec.
Ripple/noise: 1%
MTBF, full load @ 25°C amb.: 100k hrs

No minimally acceptable supply is ever damaged by the load.
Also a failing power supply must not damage any other computer
component. But to sell power supplies at *good* prices, then
these essential functions are missing. Cheap supplies can't
be bothered to claim to meet those above specs.

Is it really a "good" supply. Very first requirement -
where are the specifications?

KnightOfTheKingOfPop wrote:
Thank you the expanation about why the P4 PSU power supply is called
that
way, it is something that I did not know at all! I have sent the 1st
burned
psu and have said it is defective and I have ordered the best quality
PSU I
could find, that is a 450 watt dual fan one. Good quality. I am not in
the
US so I cannot find the one you say... but this one is something at
first I
thought I would never buy. I have studied electronics so I have thought
about the 2 PSU solution even though I didnt know people actually do it,
and
I am crazy enough to do such a thing, however, this is my main home
computer
and I dont want to experiment on it. I want it to have a normal PSU that
will power my PC 24h 7days a week. I will look again for some error on
the
cables.. since it does seem strange that only a different CPU (and its
fan
and cooler that came with it since it was a CELERON BOX) could make the
system break down.


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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From ATX power supply specification Section 3.5.2:
The power supply shall be capable of withstanding a continuous
short-circuit to the output without any damage or overstress to
the unit ... The maximum short circuit energy in any output
shall not exceed 240 VA.

With foldback current limiting, no ATX power supply should
be damaged by a 'continuos' short circuit. No reason for a
computer damaging any power supply IF that power supply
conforms to specifications. Unfortunately, because so many
clone computer assemblers buy only on price, then many power
supplies do not conform.

BTW, power supplies selling for significantly under $80
(ballpark in both Euro and US) are typically missing essential
functions. IOW at $50 Euro, the $80 supply better be selling
at substancial discount.

I repeat what we knew for power supplies even 30 years ago.
No power supply containing essential functions can be damaged
by too much load or by a computer. In fact, an acceptable
computer power supply can have all outputs shorted - and power
supply is not damaged.

Having built supplies, I had assumed the first thing you did
was study power supply voltages with a multimeter. Whether
supply is on or off, a special +5VSB output must appear on
purple wire. Pressing power switch must cause voltage changes
on Green wire. Failure on either wire means problem is in
power supply or motherboard control circuit (which includes
front panel power switch).

Even if power supply is undersized, that multimeter
measurement of important voltages (red, yellow, and orange
wires) would have made that apparent.

If computer did damage those other power supplies, then
good. They could only be damaged if they were inferior - a
threat to any future computer components. There are too many
power supplies that don't meet and therefore don't provide
that long list of specifications.

KnightOfTheKingOfPop wrote:
I have contructed powersupplies for general use. A powersupply can
be damaged by overheating if the drain is too much, as in this case
(I think this is true). A power supply does have protection for
short circuits but this is only for a few moments (the test is to
have it shorted for 5 minuites).
Anyway I checked every cable connection again, and I cannot see any error. However for me to be sure I will take the whole computer for
test at the place that they will install the new high power supply.
I usually fix things myself but this is too strange to risk another
50 dollar (euro) power supply on.