"True Clone" Builders including Windows XP OEM disks?

Hi there ...

Yes, this is what I get for going six years between PC's. Times have
sure changed.

I finally ended up deciding on a Powerspec from MicroCenter because at
least the HARDWARE looked reasonably generic (that Linux would boot on
it and future Windows versions would be likely to recognize it). I
certainly felt more comfortable with going this way than, say, the Sony
that didn't look upgradable and didn't even have restore disks.

Well, the Powerspec has a restore disk alright ... it basically writes
the original drive image back onto the hard drive.

Actually it goes much faster than a typical Windows install, but has
some issues -- for instance I changed the video card already, to say
nothing of the fact that the thing installs Norton Antivirus that I
don't need and it takes longer to UNINSTALL Norton than it takes to
reinstall the whole system.

Also, there seems to be no way to get into FDISK, to say nothing of
FIXMBR for those many instances when I need to uninstall Linux.

Yes, needless to say I have an OEM disk on the way and this combo may
ultimately be the cheaper way to go.

HOWEVER ...

Can any of you point me in the way of a list (or, if necessary, do you
think it might be a good idea to START a list) of known "true clone",
"true white box", "no funny business" manufacturers who include generic
Windows XP OEM disks for we obsessive crackpot tinkerers who, for
reasons still not fully understood, simply don't care for the notion of
ripping our knuckles off installing motherboards?

Thanks!

Ax

Most "big" clone builders do not include an original XP CD. Microsoft gives
a special permission to allow them to activate a huge number of XPs and
provide the means of restoring back to factory defaults. If you were to
locate a local PC assembler, they may provide you with the generic OEM CD,
when you by the PC from them.


wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi there ...

Yes, this is what I get for going six years between PC's. Times have
sure changed.

I finally ended up deciding on a Powerspec from MicroCenter because at
least the HARDWARE looked reasonably generic (that Linux would boot on
it and future Windows versions would be likely to recognize it). I
certainly felt more comfortable with going this way than, say, the Sony
that didn't look upgradable and didn't even have restore disks.

Well, the Powerspec has a restore disk alright ... it basically writes
the original drive image back onto the hard drive.

Actually it goes much faster than a typical Windows install, but has
some issues -- for instance I changed the video card already, to say
nothing of the fact that the thing installs Norton Antivirus that I
don't need and it takes longer to UNINSTALL Norton than it takes to
reinstall the whole system.

Also, there seems to be no way to get into FDISK, to say nothing of
FIXMBR for those many instances when I need to uninstall Linux.

Yes, needless to say I have an OEM disk on the way and this combo may
ultimately be the cheaper way to go.

HOWEVER ...

Can any of you point me in the way of a list (or, if necessary, do you
think it might be a good idea to START a list) of known "true clone",
"true white box", "no funny business" manufacturers who include generic
Windows XP OEM disks for we obsessive crackpot tinkerers who, for
reasons still not fully understood, simply don't care for the notion of
ripping our knuckles off installing motherboards?

Thanks!

Ax

Why do you want a list of clone manufacturers when you already have a
computer?.. most computer companies, if not all, supply OEM versions of XP
or restore CDs.. they are all tied to ONE computer.. restore CDs always
convert the system back to 'factory' (as supplied)..


wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi there ...

Yes, this is what I get for going six years between PC's. Times have
sure changed.

I finally ended up deciding on a Powerspec from MicroCenter because at
least the HARDWARE looked reasonably generic (that Linux would boot on
it and future Windows versions would be likely to recognize it). I
certainly felt more comfortable with going this way than, say, the Sony
that didn't look upgradable and didn't even have restore disks.

Well, the Powerspec has a restore disk alright ... it basically writes
the original drive image back onto the hard drive.

Actually it goes much faster than a typical Windows install, but has
some issues -- for instance I changed the video card already, to say
nothing of the fact that the thing installs Norton Antivirus that I
don't need and it takes longer to UNINSTALL Norton than it takes to
reinstall the whole system.

Also, there seems to be no way to get into FDISK, to say nothing of
FIXMBR for those many instances when I need to uninstall Linux.

Yes, needless to say I have an OEM disk on the way and this combo may
ultimately be the cheaper way to go.

HOWEVER ...

Can any of you point me in the way of a list (or, if necessary, do you
think it might be a good idea to START a list) of known "true clone",
"true white box", "no funny business" manufacturers who include generic
Windows XP OEM disks for we obsessive crackpot tinkerers who, for
reasons still not fully understood, simply don't care for the notion of
ripping our knuckles off installing motherboards?

Thanks!

Ax

Here are few things that might help you:

1. FDISK can still be run form a win98 bootdisk. It will see NTFS
partitions as "nonDOS". It can delete them and it can create FAT32
partitions, which will certainly work with XP. See www.bootdisk.com for an
98 bootdisk and the latest FDISK.

2. Microsoft offer a free download of what they call XP "setup" disks.
These are primarily intended for PCs that can not boot from the XP CD.
However, they also include the XP recovery console, with such commands as
FIXBMR, DELPART, FORMAT, CHKDSK, etc.

3. Most towns have one or more mom&pop PC makers, that will happily build a
PC to your specifications. They will normally include an XP OEM CD, or at
least you can negotiate with them, unlike the major PC makers. And, for
some incremental price, a mom&pop could just as easily build the PC with the
full retail version of XP and give you that CD.

wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi there ...

Yes, this is what I get for going six years between PC's. Times have
sure changed.

I finally ended up deciding on a Powerspec from MicroCenter because at
least the HARDWARE looked reasonably generic (that Linux would boot on
it and future Windows versions would be likely to recognize it). I
certainly felt more comfortable with going this way than, say, the Sony
that didn't look upgradable and didn't even have restore disks.

Well, the Powerspec has a restore disk alright ... it basically writes
the original drive image back onto the hard drive.

Actually it goes much faster than a typical Windows install, but has
some issues -- for instance I changed the video card already, to say
nothing of the fact that the thing installs Norton Antivirus that I
don't need and it takes longer to UNINSTALL Norton than it takes to
reinstall the whole system.

Also, there seems to be no way to get into FDISK, to say nothing of
FIXMBR for those many instances when I need to uninstall Linux.

Yes, needless to say I have an OEM disk on the way and this combo may
ultimately be the cheaper way to go.

HOWEVER ...

Can any of you point me in the way of a list (or, if necessary, do you
think it might be a good idea to START a list) of known "true clone",
"true white box", "no funny business" manufacturers who include generic
Windows XP OEM disks for we obsessive crackpot tinkerers who, for
reasons still not fully understood, simply don't care for the notion of
ripping our knuckles off installing motherboards?

Thanks!

Ax

wrote:


Can any of you point me in the way of a list (or, if necessary, do you
think it might be a good idea to START a list) of known "true clone",
"true white box", "no funny business" manufacturers who include generic
Windows XP OEM disks for we obsessive crackpot tinkerers who, for
reasons still not fully understood, simply don't care for the notion of
ripping our knuckles off installing motherboards?


Dell, Gateway, and MPC are the ones I know from experience who provide
true, if BIOS-locked, installation CDs. Also, any small system builder
(the local Mom & Pop type shop) will have generic, unbranded OEM
installation CDs.


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:
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both at once. - RAH

If you get a copy of nLite from http://nuhi.msfn.org/nlite.html you should
be able to create a new CD from your restore CD without the unwanted extras.
wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi there ...

Yes, this is what I get for going six years between PC's. Times have
sure changed.

I finally ended up deciding on a Powerspec from MicroCenter because at
least the HARDWARE looked reasonably generic (that Linux would boot on
it and future Windows versions would be likely to recognize it). I
certainly felt more comfortable with going this way than, say, the Sony
that didn't look upgradable and didn't even have restore disks.

Well, the Powerspec has a restore disk alright ... it basically writes
the original drive image back onto the hard drive.

Actually it goes much faster than a typical Windows install, but has
some issues -- for instance I changed the video card already, to say
nothing of the fact that the thing installs Norton Antivirus that I
don't need and it takes longer to UNINSTALL Norton than it takes to
reinstall the whole system.

Also, there seems to be no way to get into FDISK, to say nothing of
FIXMBR for those many instances when I need to uninstall Linux.

Yes, needless to say I have an OEM disk on the way and this combo may
ultimately be the cheaper way to go.

HOWEVER ...

Can any of you point me in the way of a list (or, if necessary, do you
think it might be a good idea to START a list) of known "true clone",
"true white box", "no funny business" manufacturers who include generic
Windows XP OEM disks for we obsessive crackpot tinkerers who, for
reasons still not fully understood, simply don't care for the notion of
ripping our knuckles off installing motherboards?

Thanks!

Ax

On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 14:39:51 -0500, "Yves Leclerc"

Most "big" clone builders do not include an original XP CD. Microsoft gives
a special permission to allow them to activate a huge number of XPs and
provide the means of restoring back to factory defaults.

It's a bit more complicated than that.

As far as activation is concerned, there are two models. The one that
most big OEMs use lock the license to thier particular BIOS, which
engenders "brand loyalty" to the OEM. The user's spared hassles when
changing components as long as the original BIOS, and thus
motherboard, survives. Not sure what happens if it doesn't.

The other activation model is more familiar to users, and that's where
a set of components are monitored for change. These are supposed to
change only if hardware is changed, but one is purely software (the HD
volume serial number) and others can change when component firmware is
updated (SVGA, non-volitile LAN card settings, optical drives). This
is the model used in retail and generic OEM XP.

In South Africa at least, MS differentiates OEMs into large-volume
OEMs and small-volume DSPs (Delivery Service Partners). DSPs use
generic "OEM" product that will work on any hardware, and that will
boot Recovery Console, support repair installs, and allow custom
installation by way of a "response" file as setup parameter.

Large volume OEMs can use the same sort of generic OEM product as
DSPs, though they will get a better price. But they can go further,
and negotiate with MS the right to offer lesser product, while still
being seen as acceptable from MS's licensing perspective.

This can vary from slightly "tweaked" OEM disks that contain the OEM's
own drivers, and perhaps with other drivers ripped out, to the sort of
nightmare "recovery" CDs mentioned earlier. They can even ship with
no CD at all; only a custom HD partition, or note even that; just the
terse instruction to "contact your dealer" when things go wrong.

As long as you get a "genuine" license sticker, preferable stuck on
the PC so that it can be stolen with it, MS is happy. If you want to
protect yourself against being stuck with an unmaintanable system,
then that's up to you; MS couldn't care less.

Well, the Powerspec has a restore disk alright ... it basically writes
the original drive image back onto the hard drive.

That's typical large OEM ****e. Don't make the same mistake again.

Can any of you point me in the way of a list (or, if necessary, do you
think it might be a good idea to START a list) of known "true clone",
"true white box", "no funny business" manufacturers who include generic
Windows XP OEM disks for we obsessive crackpot tinkerers who, for
reasons still not fully understood, simply don't care for the notion of
ripping our knuckles off installing motherboards?

In South Africa, it's fairly easy because most PCs here are "white
box". As long as you stay out of volume retail computer shops, you
aren't likely to get stuck with bland lame trash, until you get to
laptops, where you have no choice.

Here, we see three tiers of manufactu

1) Big international brands

These are imported as-is, and the reseller simply adds a markup and
shoves it through. There's nearly always an element of proprietary
blues, and you are very likely to get stuck with a bad OS CD or less.

2) Distributor brands

Local component importers/distributors assemble PCs from the
components they carry, and sell these to resellers who are unable or
unwilling to do thier own component-level selection or assembly. The
largest of these brands may use proprietized OS CDs, but you have a
better chance of getting a proper installation CD otherwise.

3) Reseller brands

This is where resellers source raw components and assemble thier own
PCs, which may be "branded" or left as apparently un-branded. As I
consider branding to be a BS substitute for specification awareness, I
refuse to brand PCs I build, even discarding those "Intel Inside"
stickers. With these PCs, you should get a DSP XP CD as well as the
driver disks that accompanied the hardware components themselves.

In cases (1) and (2), the component choices will be made for you. You
may hope that choosing a "good" brand means value added in the form of
good component choice, but this is unlikely to be the case.

Most PCs are built to attain the lowest possible price tag for the
features asked for (ask for no features, get the dregs; ask for
Pentium 4, get a Pentium 4 with dregs everything else).

If you work with a type (3) PC builder, you'd generally find little
resistance to up-speccing your PC (decent motherboard chipset, big HD)
because these builders typically install the OS interactively, rather
than being chained to a cookie-cutter image process that breaks if
anything in the hardware is changed.

At the other extreme, type (1) brands may be locked into modelism,
i.e. "you only get the big HD if you buy the Jerk-Off 2000, which also
comes with DVD writer and overpriced P4 processor at 2x cost".



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