A Windows XP help forum. PCbanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » PCbanter forum » Microsoft Windows XP » General XP issues or comments
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Why exactly does Paint.NET make bigger files than Irfanview?



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #106  
Old February 17th 17, 03:54 AM posted to rec.photo.digital,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Eric Stevens
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 911
Default Why exactly does Paint.NET make bigger files than Irfanview?

On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 15:19:02 -0500, nospam
wrote:

In article , Stijn De Jong
wrote:


nonsense. it's incredibly easy to create arrows and quite a bit more.
as usual, you failed and are blaming others.

view the annotate menu:
https://www.cisdem.com/resource/atta...te-a-pdf-mac-p
review.jpg

or directly from the toolbar:
http://tidbits.com/resources/2016-04/Shapes-button.png
http://tidbits.com/resources/2016-04/Preview-wild-text.png
http://tidbits.com/resources/2016-04/Shape-color.png

it doesn't get any easier than that.


All decent editing apps have a GUI for each of the critical tasks:
0. Cropping area
1. Adding canvas and text
2. Adding bounding boxes
3. Adding curved and straight arrows


preview does all that, with the exception of curved arrows, a very
minor issue.


It's not a minor issue at all if you want curved arrows.


It's *how* they accomplish those tasks that differs, and what basic options
they provide for the results which matter.


preview is as easy as it gets.

--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
Ads
  #107  
Old February 17th 17, 04:16 AM posted to rec.photo.digital,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,718
Default Why exactly does Paint.NET make bigger files than Irfanview?

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

nonsense. it's incredibly easy to create arrows and quite a bit more.
as usual, you failed and are blaming others.

view the annotate menu:
https://www.cisdem.com/resource/atta...te-a-pdf-mac-p
review.jpg

or directly from the toolbar:
http://tidbits.com/resources/2016-04/Shapes-button.png
http://tidbits.com/resources/2016-04/Preview-wild-text.png
http://tidbits.com/resources/2016-04/Shape-color.png

it doesn't get any easier than that.

All decent editing apps have a GUI for each of the critical tasks:
0. Cropping area
1. Adding canvas and text
2. Adding bounding boxes
3. Adding curved and straight arrows


preview does all that, with the exception of curved arrows, a very
minor issue.


It's not a minor issue at all if you want curved arrows.


which few people do, but it can do it, so it doesn't matter.
  #108  
Old February 17th 17, 04:38 AM posted to rec.photo.digital,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Stijn De Jong
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 76
Default Why exactly does Paint.NET make bigger files than Irfanview?

On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 20:18:09 -0500, nospam wrote:

it's *you* who didn't try what was suggested.

you just kept on babbling that preview can't do it despite *multiple*
people telling you that it can and do so very easily, for free, and
even showing you exactly *how*.



  #109  
Old February 17th 17, 04:38 AM posted to rec.photo.digital,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Savageduck
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 214
Default Why exactly does Paint.NET make bigger files than Irfanview?

On 2017-02-17 01:58:53 +0000, Stijn De Jong said:

On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 21:41:20 +0100, android wrote:

I just tried those mentioned above. They work dandy fine! :-/

I can hand you a dozen kits, where they all supposedly do the same thing,
but some fly better than others, even though they all have the same basic
parts.

In that light, I have just one simple question specifically for you.

QUESTION FOR "android" only:

Have you ever used the arrowing commands in Paint.NET?


No. Why would I?


I have to smile because I just responded why to Savageduck who said
that plenty of Mac users said their tool was better, but, I responded
to Savageduck that there was zero evidence that those people made those
conclusions after testing the aforementioned Windows or Linux tools.


Sigh!...
You always do this with your editorializing, which has you decending
into the insufferable.

I have told you many times in other NG's, in other threads, and so have
other folks, don't put words into my mouth. I did not say that "our
tool was better". You did not find me using those words. I merely
presented an OSX app, Preview (free), which performs the annotation
functions you wanted simply and effectively. I also have serious doubt
that you have spent much time at all on any Mac, especially enough time
to make much more than a cursory survey of what can be done on any Mac.

You are an unashamed Linux user who occasionally delves into one or
other variety of Windows, and as a result, have little to no
understanding of OSX and what it has to offer. You go out of your way
to passive agressively insult users of OSX and iOS, even when they make
a sincere effort to answer some of your questions. So many are aware of
your M.O. they no longer give you the benefit of doubt, when you have
nym-shifted, regardles of your question as your particular agenda is
way too obvious to all.


The evidence abounds by those who know me that I have used all the
suggested tools on all the platforms (windows, mac, and linux), so, I
have to smile whenever someone makes a pronouncement that their
favorite tool is better than some other tool that they've never once
used.


Actually the evidence doesn't "abound". It is just that most normal
folks don't wallow in OCD behaviour such as yours that much.

It's just funny.
So many people lack scientific thought processes that it's just funny.


That is presumptive opinion.

The guy "nospam" is classic that way.
Absolutely nothing he ever says is backed up by actual fact.

He just makes it all up.


We all have our opinions with regard to nospam, and his annoying manner
of dialog. However, most of us recogize that he does have considerable
knowledge in some areas.

HINT: You can't reasonably assert one tool is better than another for
simple things like arrowing unless you have actually tried each of them
(or, at the very least, researched them in detail).


As I said, nobody asserted that one tool was better than another. In my
case I just said that one particular tool meets the annotation
requirements you set out, both easily and effectively. I couldn't be
bothered to conduct a bunch of comparative test for those functions. I
have and do make comparative tests with software which has functions
which interest me, (my current interest is in researching and test
driving various photo editing software) and so do many other folks in
this and other NG's.


--
Regards,

Savageduck

  #110  
Old February 17th 17, 04:38 AM posted to rec.photo.digital,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Savageduck
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 214
Default Why exactly does Paint.NET make bigger files than Irfanview?

On 2017-02-17 02:54:32 +0000, Eric Stevens said:

On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 15:19:02 -0500, nospam
wrote:

In article , Stijn De Jong
wrote:


nonsense. it's incredibly easy to create arrows and quite a bit more.
as usual, you failed and are blaming others.

view the annotate menu:
https://www.cisdem.com/resource/atta...te-a-pdf-mac-p
review.jpg

or directly from the toolbar:
http://tidbits.com/resources/2016-04/Shapes-button.png
http://tidbits.com/resources/2016-04/Preview-wild-text.png
http://tidbits.com/resources/2016-04/Shape-color.png

it doesn't get any easier than that.

All decent editing apps have a GUI for each of the critical tasks:
0. Cropping area
1. Adding canvas and text
2. Adding bounding boxes
3. Adding curved and straight arrows


preview does all that, with the exception of curved arrows, a very
minor issue.


It's not a minor issue at all if you want curved arrows.


It's OK. Preview will do curved arrows very nicely.


It's *how* they accomplish those tasks that differs, and what basic options
they provide for the results which matter.


preview is as easy as it gets.



--
Regards,

Savageduck

  #111  
Old February 17th 17, 05:06 AM posted to rec.photo.digital,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Eric Stevens
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 911
Default Why exactly does Paint.NET make bigger files than Irfanview?

On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 19:38:55 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2017-02-17 02:54:32 +0000, Eric Stevens said:

On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 15:19:02 -0500, nospam
wrote:

In article , Stijn De Jong
wrote:


nonsense. it's incredibly easy to create arrows and quite a bit more.
as usual, you failed and are blaming others.

view the annotate menu:
https://www.cisdem.com/resource/atta...te-a-pdf-mac-p
review.jpg

or directly from the toolbar:
http://tidbits.com/resources/2016-04/Shapes-button.png
http://tidbits.com/resources/2016-04/Preview-wild-text.png
http://tidbits.com/resources/2016-04/Shape-color.png

it doesn't get any easier than that.

All decent editing apps have a GUI for each of the critical tasks:
0. Cropping area
1. Adding canvas and text
2. Adding bounding boxes
3. Adding curved and straight arrows

preview does all that, with the exception of curved arrows, a very
minor issue.


It's not a minor issue at all if you want curved arrows.


It's OK. Preview will do curved arrows very nicely.


I was responding after nospam said it wouldn't do it all.

In any case 'very nicely' is a matter of opinion and I'm not the one
who has to be satisfied about this.


It's *how* they accomplish those tasks that differs, and what basic options
they provide for the results which matter.

preview is as easy as it gets.

--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #112  
Old February 17th 17, 05:08 AM posted to rec.photo.digital,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,718
Default Why exactly does Paint.NET make bigger files than Irfanview?

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

All decent editing apps have a GUI for each of the critical tasks:
0. Cropping area
1. Adding canvas and text
2. Adding bounding boxes
3. Adding curved and straight arrows

preview does all that, with the exception of curved arrows, a very
minor issue.

It's not a minor issue at all if you want curved arrows.


It's OK. Preview will do curved arrows very nicely.


I was responding after nospam said it wouldn't do it all.


which i corrected in a subsequent post within a few minutes.
  #113  
Old February 17th 17, 05:24 AM posted to rec.photo.digital,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Savageduck
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 214
Default Why exactly does Paint.NET make bigger files than Irfanview?

On 2017-02-17 04:06:49 +0000, Eric Stevens said:

On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 19:38:55 -0800, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2017-02-17 02:54:32 +0000, Eric Stevens said:

On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 15:19:02 -0500, nospam
wrote:

In article , Stijn De Jong
wrote:


nonsense. it's incredibly easy to create arrows and quite a bit more.
as usual, you failed and are blaming others.

view the annotate menu:
https://www.cisdem.com/resource/atta...te-a-pdf-mac-p
review.jpg

or directly from the toolbar:
http://tidbits.com/resources/2016-04/Shapes-button.png
http://tidbits.com/resources/2016-04/Preview-wild-text.png
http://tidbits.com/resources/2016-04/Shape-color.png

it doesn't get any easier than that.

All decent editing apps have a GUI for each of the critical tasks:
0. Cropping area
1. Adding canvas and text
2. Adding bounding boxes
3. Adding curved and straight arrows

preview does all that, with the exception of curved arrows, a very
minor issue.

It's not a minor issue at all if you want curved arrows.


It's OK. Preview will do curved arrows very nicely.


I was responding after nospam said it wouldn't do it all.

In any case 'very nicely' is a matter of opinion and I'm not the one
who has to be satisfied about this.


OK! Good enough for my simple, off the cuff annotation needs.


It's *how* they accomplish those tasks that differs, and what basic options
they provide for the results which matter.

preview is as easy as it gets.



--
Regards,

Savageduck

  #114  
Old February 17th 17, 09:57 AM posted to rec.photo.digital,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Eric Stevens
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 911
Default Why exactly does Paint.NET make bigger files than Irfanview?

On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 23:08:32 -0500, nospam
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

All decent editing apps have a GUI for each of the critical tasks:
0. Cropping area
1. Adding canvas and text
2. Adding bounding boxes
3. Adding curved and straight arrows

preview does all that, with the exception of curved arrows, a very
minor issue.

It's not a minor issue at all if you want curved arrows.

It's OK. Preview will do curved arrows very nicely.


I was responding after nospam said it wouldn't do it all.


which i corrected in a subsequent post within a few minutes.


Yep.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #115  
Old February 17th 17, 01:56 PM posted to rec.photo.digital,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Kerr Mudd-John
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 87
Default Why exactly does Paint.NET make bigger files than Irfanview?

On Fri, 17 Feb 2017 01:58:53 -0000, Stijn De Jong
wrote:

[]

The guy "nospam" is classic that way.
Absolutely nothing he ever says is backed up by actual fact.

He just makes it all up.


He's only here for the argument; use your killfile. YKIMS.


--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug
  #116  
Old February 17th 17, 04:08 PM posted to rec.photo.digital,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mayayana
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,438
Default Why exactly does Paint.NET make bigger files than Irfanview?

"Stijn De Jong" wrote

| you just kept on babbling that preview can't do it despite *multiple*
| people telling you that it can and do so very easily, for free, and
| even showing you exactly *how*.
|
|

I'm curious. You wanted this for Windows. But
from what you've said it sounds like you use
Windows, Mac and Linux. Why all 3? No preference?
I would think that with your particular graphic
needs you would have ended up on just one
system long ago.


  #117  
Old February 17th 17, 04:18 PM posted to rec.photo.digital,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mayayana
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,438
Default Why exactly does Paint.NET make bigger files than Irfanview?

"Savageduck" wrote

| I have told you many times in other NG's, in other threads, and so have
| other folks, don't put words into my mouth. I did not say that "our
| tool was better". You did not find me using those words. I merely
| presented an OSX app, Preview (free), which performs the annotation
| functions you wanted simply and effectively.
| I also have serious doubt
| that you have spent much time at all on any Mac, especially enough time
| to make much more than a cursory survey of what can be done on any Mac.
|

He may be baiting. I don't know. But it was you
who insisted on arguing about Mac programs in
a discussion about Windows software.


  #118  
Old February 17th 17, 04:27 PM posted to rec.photo.digital,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Savageduck
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 214
Default Why exactly does Paint.NET make bigger files than Irfanview?

On 2017-02-17 15:08:00 +0000, "Mayayana" said:

"Stijn De Jong" wrote

| you just kept on babbling that preview can't do it despite *multiple*
| people telling you that it can and do so very easily, for free, and
| even showing you exactly *how*.
|
|

I'm curious. You wanted this for Windows. But
from what you've said it sounds like you use
Windows, Mac and Linux. Why all 3? No preference?
I would think that with your particular graphic
needs you would have ended up on just one
system long ago.


He is a Linux/Windows user. He is not a Mac user/owner other than some
brief, questionable Mac encounter he has told us of in this thread. He
is also obsessed with freeware options.

Nospam, Alan Browne, and yours truly know him quite well from lengthy
encounters, and pointless babbling threads in other NG's where he has
used dozens of nyms, with a change coming every few weeks.
--
Regards,

Savageduck

  #119  
Old February 17th 17, 04:45 PM posted to rec.photo.digital,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Savageduck
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 214
Default Why exactly does Paint.NET make bigger files than Irfanview?

On 2017-02-17 15:18:39 +0000, "Mayayana" said:

"Savageduck" wrote

| I have told you many times in other NG's, in other threads, and so have
| other folks, don't put words into my mouth. I did not say that "our
| tool was better". You did not find me using those words. I merely
| presented an OSX app, Preview (free), which performs the annotation
| functions you wanted simply and effectively.
| I also have serious doubt
| that you have spent much time at all on any Mac, especially enough time
| to make much more than a cursory survey of what can be done on any Mac.
|

He may be baiting. I don't know. But it was you
who insisted on arguing about Mac programs in
a discussion about Windows software.


I didn't argue. He made the challenge regarding "freeware" which would
do the job, and I responded with the free application I use, which does
all that he asked of it. rec.photo.digital is where he has initiated
this thread, and to the best of my knowledge r.p.d. is not an exclusive
Windows NG.
--
Regards,

Savageduck

  #120  
Old February 17th 17, 04:59 PM posted to rec.photo.digital,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mayayana
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,438
Default Why exactly does Paint.NET make bigger files than Irfanview?

"Savageduck" wrote

| "Adding canvas" would be accomplished by
| painting a bitmap onto a second larger bitmap, just
| because that's how Windows graphics works.
|
| If you do it that way it is a bit of a kludge. Bitmap is a very old
| Windows way of thinking. There are far simpler and efficient ways of
| doing what you have described.
|

You're doing it that way, too. You just don't
know it. (RAW is more complicated, in ways
I don't fully understand, but once you get into
raster graphics it's all the same.)

Now that I know what's meant by
canvas I don't see any problem with it. I'm
curious how I never noticed "canvas" before.
But it's just a GUI convention. It's not functionality.

I don't see any inconvenience with copy/paste
onto a new image. That makes it easy for me to
move around one or more images on a larger
background and operate on various layers until I'm
ready to merge them. That's a more flexible method
than canvas. If I want a text area I'll usually just
paint on a rectangle. But canvas seems fine for
adding a regular, defined border.

What you're doing with "canvas" is using a
conceptual device to imagine working on a picture
that's on a background plate. You then swap out
for a bigger background plate when desired.

That's actually an unnecessary device if you
think in terms of what the image really is and let
go of the irrelevant, concrete-world limitations
like easels and stretched canvas over a frame.

Raster graphics deals in rectangular bitmaps,
which are arrays of byte values defining pixels, with
the display of those pixels defined by width, height,
color-depth and orientation specs included with the
byte array. Thus, a 24-bit bitmap starting at upper
left with a size of 200x100 will mean that to create
the image the bytes are read in groups of 3 to
light 200 pixels across the screen. 600 bytes for
one line of pixels. Then the next line is read out.
It always gets down to simple numbers at some
point when you're using computers. (I don't know
whether Apple uses the term bitmap, but they're
doing it the same way if they're doing raster graphics.)

Before it's
painted to the screen it's just that byte array.
When you enlarge your canvas, what goes on
behind the scenes is that the system defines a
second device-independent bitmap and then paints
your existing bitmap onto it once you decide where
in the image you want your original pasted and
what color you want the background. It has
nothing to do with Windows and nothing to
do with any "old way of thinking". Look up raster
graphics. The same is true of things like brightening,
color pencil plugins, borders, etc. It's all mathematical
formulae applied to an array of byte values that
represent a pixel grid. So if you enlarge your
canvas what actually happens is that your byte
array gets enlarged and rebuilt. The software might
do that directly, or more likely it will do it by
defining a second bitmap and using system API to
paint one to the other, then retrieve the resulting
byte array. In that case the software is letting the
system do the grunt work. Either way, what goes
on underneath hasn't changed. Only the GUI changes.

That's the trouble with only using Apple tools.
You end up thinking that a microwave is the way
cooking happens and when someone talks about
making spaghetti sauce from scratch on their stove
you think they're either ignorant or lying.






 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off






All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:10 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 PCbanter.
The comments are property of their posters.