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I need HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 26th 04, 10:34 AM
Debbie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default I need HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We downloaded the service pack on our friends computer
and then she started having trouble with the reboot it
would only come to the first screen it would not even get
to the window xp screen but a message on along the bottom
showed up with hit tab for exit and hit delete for setup.
I went into the setup section by accident and hit
something now the screen is completely blank. Nothing
comes up. We have tried rebooting insafe mode and
everything PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Deb
Ads
  #2  
Old August 26th 04, 12:51 PM
Chad Harris
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default I need HELP!!! Here's some help Debbie!

Debbie--

"We have tried rebooting insafe mode and everything" Do you have an XP
CD-ROM? I want you to boot from the CD-ROM if you cannot F8 to a screen
with options. If you can boot to the screen with options (and it doesn't
sound like it), try Safe Mode and then System Restore or as a last ditch try
Last Known Good Configuration--two disadvantages--it goes to the last time
you booted which could have been many settings ago, and it seldom works.

I'm not sure what else you have tried. I don't know if the "and
everything" is a figure of speech or stands for other things you tried you
haven't told me. If you can't F8 to the Windows Advanced Options screen
that includes trying to boot into Safe Mode, then depending on who is the
maker of your bios find out what key you tap to get into the bios setup.
Find out from your friend's computer manual or maker website who makes the
bios or what key to enter. You can usually get a screen with the maker of
your computer, the Firmware or POST screen that will tell you on the top or
the bottom what key to press. If you don't have that screen or a manual,
and don't know, you can use this to find out who makes the bios--hit the red
download hyperlink:

http://www.belarc.com/free_download.html

After you download this, clicking the icon will give you a listing of your
hardware and software and you'll know the bios maker. Then you can use one
of these to find out what key to tap when you turn on your computer. See if
pressing the button will give you the firmware screen or start any screen at
all and tap the key these advise to use:

http://www.usbman.com/Guides/bios_update_sites.htm

http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com/xp_b.htm

Change the order so that you can boot from your friend's XP CD. Then follow
the directions here to do an inplace upgrade. This will not format or lose
information, but should get you back into setting up XP with your data and
settings intact. Then you can try to download and install SP2 after your
friend is thorougly backed up.

How to Perform a Windows XP Repair Install
http://www.michaelstevenstech.com/XPrepairinstall.htm

How to perform an in-place upgrade (reinstallation) of Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/default...;en-us;q315341

Doug Knox on Repair Install
http://www.dougknox.com/xp/tips/xp_repair_install.htm

Here are some screenshots of the repair/upgrade no format install to help
you context--whether you have Home or Pro it's going to be the same.

http://www.windowsreinstall.com/winx...pair/index.htm

Also as a general reference for Emergency Recovery:

Resources for troubleshooting startup problems in Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/default...&Product=winxp

A Repair Install will replace the system files with the files on the XP CD
used for the Repair Install. It will leave your applications and settings
intact, but Windows updates will need to be reapplied.

If the inplace upgrade does not work, and it should, then you can do a
parallel install of XP to another folder or partition, but that is
considerably more time consuming because it entails extracting your data
from the other partition. A parallel install is detailed he

How to install or upgrade to Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/default...&Product=winxp

hth,

Chad Harris
__________________________________________________ ____________


"Debbie" wrote in message
...
We downloaded the service pack on our friends computer
and then she started having trouble with the reboot it
would only come to the first screen it would not even get
to the window xp screen but a message on along the bottom
showed up with hit tab for exit and hit delete for setup.
I went into the setup section by accident and hit
something now the screen is completely blank. Nothing
comes up. We have tried rebooting insafe mode and
everything PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Deb


  #3  
Old August 26th 04, 02:24 PM
johnf
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default I need HELP!!! Here's some help Debbie!

Chad, read her post again carefully.
"now the screen is completely blank. Nothing comes up".
IOW, it NOW doesn't do anything, Debbie can't even get into Safemode!
Definitely sounds like a hands on job, not something that can be advised on
via a NG.

--

johnf

Debbie--

"We have tried rebooting insafe mode and everything" Do you have an XP
CD-ROM? I want you to boot from the CD-ROM if you cannot F8 to a screen
with options. If you can boot to the screen with options (and it
doesn't sound like it), try Safe Mode and then System Restore or as a
last ditch try Last Known Good Configuration--two disadvantages--it
goes to the last time you booted which could have been many settings
ago, and it seldom works.
I'm not sure what else you have tried. I don't know if the "and
everything" is a figure of speech or stands for other things you tried
you haven't told me. If you can't F8 to the Windows Advanced Options
screen that includes trying to boot into Safe Mode, then depending on
who is the maker of your bios find out what key you tap to get into the
bios setup. Find out from your friend's computer manual or maker
website who makes the bios or what key to enter. You can usually get
a screen with the maker of your computer, the Firmware or POST screen
that will tell you on the top or the bottom what key to press. If you
don't have that screen or a manual, and don't know, you can use this to
find out who makes the bios--hit the red download hyperlink:

http://www.belarc.com/free_download.html

After you download this, clicking the icon will give you a listing of
your hardware and software and you'll know the bios maker. Then you
can use one of these to find out what key to tap when you turn on your
computer. See if pressing the button will give you the firmware screen
or start any screen at all and tap the key these advise to use:

http://www.usbman.com/Guides/bios_update_sites.htm

http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com/xp_b.htm

Change the order so that you can boot from your friend's XP CD. Then
follow the directions here to do an inplace upgrade. This will not
format or lose information, but should get you back into setting up XP
with your data and settings intact. Then you can try to download and
install SP2 after your friend is thorougly backed up.

How to Perform a Windows XP Repair Install
http://www.michaelstevenstech.com/XPrepairinstall.htm

How to perform an in-place upgrade (reinstallation) of Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/default...;en-us;q315341

Doug Knox on Repair Install
http://www.dougknox.com/xp/tips/xp_repair_install.htm

Here are some screenshots of the repair/upgrade no format install to
help you context--whether you have Home or Pro it's going to be the
same.
http://www.windowsreinstall.com/winx...pair/index.htm

Also as a general reference for Emergency Recovery:

Resources for troubleshooting startup problems in Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/default...&Product=winxp

A Repair Install will replace the system files with the files on the XP
CD used for the Repair Install. It will leave your applications and
settings intact, but Windows updates will need to be reapplied.

If the inplace upgrade does not work, and it should, then you can do a
parallel install of XP to another folder or partition, but that is
considerably more time consuming because it entails extracting your data
from the other partition. A parallel install is detailed he

How to install or upgrade to Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/default...&Product=winxp

hth,

Chad Harris
__________________________________________________ ____________


"Debbie" wrote in message
...
We downloaded the service pack on our friends computer
and then she started having trouble with the reboot it
would only come to the first screen it would not even get
to the window xp screen but a message on along the bottom
showed up with hit tab for exit and hit delete for setup.
I went into the setup section by accident and hit
something now the screen is completely blank. Nothing
comes up. We have tried rebooting insafe mode and
everything PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Deb



  #4  
Old August 26th 04, 05:04 PM
Chad Harris
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default I need Help. "No Safe Mode" and...? Possibly an opportunity to recover.

What do you do when *you can't get into Safe Mode John*? Lay it on me.
Because if that box will turn on, she might be able to change her bios order
to boot from a CD."Debbie can't even get into Safemode!" *So what she
can't get into Safe Mode?* The fat lady ain't done sung because of that
piece of info--or has she for you when that happens?What do you do when *you
can't get into Safe Mode John*? Lay it on me. Until I know "fer sure", I
can't assume that the box won't turn on, nor that the advice I gave her
isn't viable.

People can't get into safe mode but can recover a high percent of the time.
See:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Ht...ie=UTF-8&hl=en

I think the point is whether she can boot from the CD or she has a dead
box--whether there is a software problem that can be repaired or a hardware
problem where she and her friend will have to summon help. I don't know for
certain, because I'm not in Debbieland right now. That's *why we have
these groups John*. Until we know whether she can turn the box on and see a
firmware or POST screen and enter the bios, then boot from the CD--the fact
that she sees a blank screen that's blue or dark gray or black doesn't rule
that out. I've seen plenty of "blank screens" where you pushed the button,
got into bios setup, changed the boot order, and booted from a CD of some
type and repaired the OS.

I've been reading posts like hers for years, and much of the time
restoration was possible via a repair or parallel install and even rarely
and I mean rarely via Last Known Good, and a sketchy post like that may
mean a wide gamut of things from hardware failure to the possibility that if
she hard button starts, she can boot from the CD. I don't know if nothing
will come up when she tries to manually restart her friend's computer or
not. I'm not Carnack the Magician, and I can only prompt people for more
information they should have given me in the first place.



I see scores of posts on these groups where the version of Office or flavor
of the OS is needed and never given not to mention other relevant pieces of
history?

BTW, what does "can't get into Safe Mode" mean to you? I'd be really
interested. It certainly doesn't mean that she's never going to see Windows
on that machine does it my man? Take a look at some recent posts I've
helped with on the XP General group?

Is there a point I'm missing in can't get up to Safe Mode? How about an
inplace upgrade booting from the CD? We don't really know if her box is a
door stop at this point or she still has some booting ability, and after
posting 35 or so exclamation points since 5:34AM Debbie hasn't favored us
with more helpful information.

The worst that could happen is that she tries every which way to Christmas
to tap to the bios setup and can't and then gets a "hands on" help. But
until then, my man, we don't know.

Would you assume everytime a doctor sees an isoelectric EKG on a street or
in a hospital room or a living room that the person is just dead and
non-resuscible, or that there might be moves that can get things back to
normal--or that it might even be fine fib masking as a straight line? If a
person is lying fairly still does that mean they're dead--leave them alone?

I don't know whether that box will turn on and you don't either--and I can't
press the button for her.

I don't know whether she has an XP CD or her friend does or her friend's
friend does? I can only work with the hand that's dealt me. If she does
get some action out of the box, maybe I'll here from her. Some people post
and then decide to throw the box in their car and take it some where. I can
only work with what I see.

She and some other people also have a decent blue print for what to try when
they can't get into Safe Mode, and I have something I can paste to help the
next person, when in a few hours or days from now someone else can't get
into safe mode but can boot from the CD.

Best,

Chad Harris
__________________________________________________ _____________


"johnf" wrote in message
...
Chad, read her post again carefully.
"now the screen is completely blank. Nothing comes up".
IOW, it NOW doesn't do anything, Debbie can't even get into Safemode!
Definitely sounds like a hands on job, not something that can be advised on
via a NG.

--

johnf

Debbie--

"We have tried rebooting insafe mode and everything" Do you have an XP
CD-ROM? I want you to boot from the CD-ROM if you cannot F8 to a screen
with options. If you can boot to the screen with options (and it
doesn't sound like it), try Safe Mode and then System Restore or as a
last ditch try Last Known Good Configuration--two disadvantages--it
goes to the last time you booted which could have been many settings
ago, and it seldom works.
I'm not sure what else you have tried. I don't know if the "and
everything" is a figure of speech or stands for other things you tried
you haven't told me. If you can't F8 to the Windows Advanced Options
screen that includes trying to boot into Safe Mode, then depending on
who is the maker of your bios find out what key you tap to get into the
bios setup. Find out from your friend's computer manual or maker
website who makes the bios or what key to enter. You can usually get
a screen with the maker of your computer, the Firmware or POST screen
that will tell you on the top or the bottom what key to press. If you
don't have that screen or a manual, and don't know, you can use this to
find out who makes the bios--hit the red download hyperlink:

http://www.belarc.com/free_download.html

After you download this, clicking the icon will give you a listing of
your hardware and software and you'll know the bios maker. Then you
can use one of these to find out what key to tap when you turn on your
computer. See if pressing the button will give you the firmware screen
or start any screen at all and tap the key these advise to use:

http://www.usbman.com/Guides/bios_update_sites.htm

http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com/xp_b.htm

Change the order so that you can boot from your friend's XP CD. Then
follow the directions here to do an inplace upgrade. This will not
format or lose information, but should get you back into setting up XP
with your data and settings intact. Then you can try to download and
install SP2 after your friend is thorougly backed up.

How to Perform a Windows XP Repair Install
http://www.michaelstevenstech.com/XPrepairinstall.htm

How to perform an in-place upgrade (reinstallation) of Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/default...;en-us;q315341

Doug Knox on Repair Install
http://www.dougknox.com/xp/tips/xp_repair_install.htm

Here are some screenshots of the repair/upgrade no format install to
help you context--whether you have Home or Pro it's going to be the
same.
http://www.windowsreinstall.com/winx...pair/index.htm

Also as a general reference for Emergency Recovery:

Resources for troubleshooting startup problems in Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/default...&Product=winxp

A Repair Install will replace the system files with the files on the XP
CD used for the Repair Install. It will leave your applications and
settings intact, but Windows updates will need to be reapplied.

If the inplace upgrade does not work, and it should, then you can do a
parallel install of XP to another folder or partition, but that is
considerably more time consuming because it entails extracting your data
from the other partition. A parallel install is detailed he

How to install or upgrade to Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/default...&Product=winxp

hth,

Chad Harris
__________________________________________________ ____________


"Debbie" wrote in message
...
We downloaded the service pack on our friends computer
and then she started having trouble with the reboot it
would only come to the first screen it would not even get
to the window xp screen but a message on along the bottom
showed up with hit tab for exit and hit delete for setup.
I went into the setup section by accident and hit
something now the screen is completely blank. Nothing
comes up. We have tried rebooting insafe mode and
everything PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Deb



  #5  
Old August 26th 04, 06:19 PM
D.Currie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default I need HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


"Debbie" wrote in message
...
We downloaded the service pack on our friends computer
and then she started having trouble with the reboot it
would only come to the first screen it would not even get
to the window xp screen but a message on along the bottom
showed up with hit tab for exit and hit delete for setup.
I went into the setup section by accident and hit
something now the screen is completely blank. Nothing
comes up. We have tried rebooting insafe mode and
everything PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Deb


It sounds like you changes something in the bios, and it's possible that
what you changed (since the result was a black screen) was which display to
use, if you've got multiple options. Take a look at the back of the computer
and see if there's another place to plug the monitor it, and see if that
works.



  #6  
Old August 26th 04, 06:41 PM
D.Currie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default I need Help. "No Safe Mode" and...? Possibly an opportunity to recover.


"Chad Harris" wrote in message
...
What do you do when *you can't get into Safe Mode John*? Lay it on me.
Because if that box will turn on, she might be able to change her bios
order to boot from a CD."Debbie can't even get into Safemode!" *So what
she can't get into Safe Mode?* The fat lady ain't done sung because of
that piece of info--or has she for you when that happens?What do you do
when *you can't get into Safe Mode John*? Lay it on me. Until I know
"fer sure", I can't assume that the box won't turn on, nor that the advice
I gave her isn't viable.

People can't get into safe mode but can recover a high percent of the
time. See:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Ht...ie=UTF-8&hl=en

I think the point is whether she can boot from the CD or she has a dead
box--whether there is a software problem that can be repaired or a
hardware problem where she and her friend will have to summon help. I
don't know for certain, because I'm not in Debbieland right now. That's
*why we have these groups John*. Until we know whether she can turn the
box on and see a firmware or POST screen and enter the bios, then boot
from the CD--the fact that she sees a blank screen that's blue or dark
gray or black doesn't rule that out. I've seen plenty of "blank screens"
where you pushed the button, got into bios setup, changed the boot order,
and booted from a CD of some type and repaired the OS.

I've been reading posts like hers for years, and much of the time
restoration was possible via a repair or parallel install and even rarely
and I mean rarely via Last Known Good, and a sketchy post like that may
mean a wide gamut of things from hardware failure to the possibility that
if she hard button starts, she can boot from the CD. I don't know if
nothing will come up when she tries to manually restart her friend's
computer or not. I'm not Carnack the Magician, and I can only prompt
people for more information they should have given me in the first place.



I see scores of posts on these groups where the version of Office or
flavor of the OS is needed and never given not to mention other relevant
pieces of history?

BTW, what does "can't get into Safe Mode" mean to you? I'd be really
interested. It certainly doesn't mean that she's never going to see
Windows on that machine does it my man? Take a look at some recent posts
I've helped with on the XP General group?

Is there a point I'm missing in can't get up to Safe Mode? How about an
inplace upgrade booting from the CD? We don't really know if her box is a
door stop at this point or she still has some booting ability, and after
posting 35 or so exclamation points since 5:34AM Debbie hasn't favored us
with more helpful information.

The worst that could happen is that she tries every which way to Christmas
to tap to the bios setup and can't and then gets a "hands on" help. But
until then, my man, we don't know.

Would you assume everytime a doctor sees an isoelectric EKG on a street or
in a hospital room or a living room that the person is just dead and
non-resuscible, or that there might be moves that can get things back to
normal--or that it might even be fine fib masking as a straight line? If
a person is lying fairly still does that mean they're dead--leave them
alone?

I don't know whether that box will turn on and you don't either--and I
can't press the button for her.

I don't know whether she has an XP CD or her friend does or her friend's
friend does? I can only work with the hand that's dealt me. If she does
get some action out of the box, maybe I'll here from her. Some people
post and then decide to throw the box in their car and take it some where.
I can only work with what I see.

She and some other people also have a decent blue print for what to try
when they can't get into Safe Mode, and I have something I can paste to
help the next person, when in a few hours or days from now someone else
can't get into safe mode but can boot from the CD.

Best,

Chad Harris



The problem with a cut-and-paste post with the complexity of yours is that
while some of it may be completely on target for a given situation, other
parts won't apply at all, and may confuse the person getting the message or
convince them that you didn't read their message and can't possibly have a
useful answer, thus they'll ignore the good advice given.

In this case, given the lack of clarity in the original question, an attempt
to get back into the bios or to boot from the CD make sense. But the
suggestion to download and run belarc to determine the bios is a bit of a
problem, as the poster isn't getting into Windows to be able to run the
program. Some people will key in on that bit of advice and assume that you
haven't read the question at all and are just posting general repair advice
that's not targeted at the particular problem at hand.


  #7  
Old August 26th 04, 07:52 PM
Chad Harris
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default I need Help. "No Safe Mode" and...? Possibly an opportunity to recover.

D. Currie--

I think your suggestion about display and the monitor to Debbie is a very
good one well worth considering. The problem is we're not sure what's
happening on that box and we may never know.

You wrote:

"The problem with a cut-and-paste post with the complexity of yours is that
while some of it may be completely on target for a given situation, other
parts won't apply at all, and may confuse the person getting the message or
convince them that you didn't read their message and can't possibly have a
useful answer, thus they'll ignore the good advice given."

That's why no cookie cutter cut and pastes are ever launched from me.

I don't think it's that complex a situation. When you can't boot to
Windows, and you're dealiing with an NTFS File System or a Win-FS file
system in the next Windows OS, you don't have a wide panopoly of options.
There are actually relatively few simple ones. Here though, I agree we just
don't know what the dark screen means. It may well be a monitor problem or
bios triggered problem.

In addition to cutting and pasting, I delete and write the posts and tailor
them to the situation. Mosf of them are on the fly, because I either can't
get to folders with stashed references or it's just faster for me to nail
the article by searching. I tend to want to respond to an "I can't get to
Windows--I'm gonna lose my data and settings help!!!!!--(I may not have
backed up adequately)" type post and I get about 100% feedback on them and
lately that hasn't been the case that they are convinced I didn't read their
message and can't possibly give a useful answer and will ignore. That's not
what the tone of the feedback has been on the "can't boot to Windows."

I figure the reason I learned to write was not to shove cookie cutter "one
size fits all" solutions at people. However, I think everyone who tries to
help on the usenet/groups/forums stashes posts with links they can borrow so
they don't have to go throught the time consuming painstaking search trying
to find the system restore, system file checker, or recovery console link or
KB, when all of us are trying to help with the demands and pressures of
making a living.

Best,

Chad Harris
_________________________________________________


"D.Currie" wrote in message
...

"Chad Harris" wrote in message
...
What do you do when *you can't get into Safe Mode John*? Lay it on me.
Because if that box will turn on, she might be able to change her bios
order to boot from a CD."Debbie can't even get into Safemode!" *So what
she can't get into Safe Mode?* The fat lady ain't done sung because of
that piece of info--or has she for you when that happens?What do you do
when *you can't get into Safe Mode John*? Lay it on me. Until I know
"fer sure", I can't assume that the box won't turn on, nor that the advice
I gave her isn't viable.

People can't get into safe mode but can recover a high percent of the
time. See:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Ht...ie=UTF-8&hl=en

I think the point is whether she can boot from the CD or she has a dead
box--whether there is a software problem that can be repaired or a
hardware problem where she and her friend will have to summon help. I
don't know for certain, because I'm not in Debbieland right now. That's
*why we have these groups John*. Until we know whether she can turn the
box on and see a firmware or POST screen and enter the bios, then boot
from the CD--the fact that she sees a blank screen that's blue or dark
gray or black doesn't rule that out. I've seen plenty of "blank screens"
where you pushed the button, got into bios setup, changed the boot order,
and booted from a CD of some type and repaired the OS.

I've been reading posts like hers for years, and much of the time
restoration was possible via a repair or parallel install and even rarely
and I mean rarely via Last Known Good, and a sketchy post like that may
mean a wide gamut of things from hardware failure to the possibility that
if she hard button starts, she can boot from the CD. I don't know if
nothing will come up when she tries to manually restart her friend's
computer or not. I'm not Carnack the Magician, and I can only prompt
people for more information they should have given me in the first place.



I see scores of posts on these groups where the version of Office or
flavor of the OS is needed and never given not to mention other relevant
pieces of history?

BTW, what does "can't get into Safe Mode" mean to you? I'd be really
interested. It certainly doesn't mean that she's never going to see
Windows on that machine does it my man? Take a look at some recent posts
I've helped with on the XP General group?

Is there a point I'm missing in can't get up to Safe Mode? How about an
inplace upgrade booting from the CD? We don't really know if her box is a
door stop at this point or she still has some booting ability, and after
posting 35 or so exclamation points since 5:34AM Debbie hasn't favored us
with more helpful information.

The worst that could happen is that she tries every which way to Christmas
to tap to the bios setup and can't and then gets a "hands on" help. But
until then, my man, we don't know.

Would you assume everytime a doctor sees an isoelectric EKG on a street or
in a hospital room or a living room that the person is just dead and
non-resuscible, or that there might be moves that can get things back to
normal--or that it might even be fine fib masking as a straight line? If
a person is lying fairly still does that mean they're dead--leave them
alone?

I don't know whether that box will turn on and you don't either--and I
can't press the button for her.

I don't know whether she has an XP CD or her friend does or her friend's
friend does? I can only work with the hand that's dealt me. If she does
get some action out of the box, maybe I'll here from her. Some people
post and then decide to throw the box in their car and take it some where.
I can only work with what I see.

She and some other people also have a decent blue print for what to try
when they can't get into Safe Mode, and I have something I can paste to
help the next person, when in a few hours or days from now someone else
can't get into safe mode but can boot from the CD.

Best,

Chad Harris



The problem with a cut-and-paste post with the complexity of yours is that
while some of it may be completely on target for a given situation, other
parts won't apply at all, and may confuse the person getting the message or
convince them that you didn't read their message and can't possibly have a
useful answer, thus they'll ignore the good advice given.

In this case, given the lack of clarity in the original question, an attempt
to get back into the bios or to boot from the CD make sense. But the
suggestion to download and run belarc to determine the bios is a bit of a
problem, as the poster isn't getting into Windows to be able to run the
program. Some people will key in on that bit of advice and assume that you
haven't read the question at all and are just posting general repair advice
that's not targeted at the particular problem at hand.


  #8  
Old August 27th 04, 12:27 AM
johnf
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default I need Help. "No Safe Mode" and...? Possibly an opportunity to recover.

Exactly. It was the Belarc advice that prompted me to reply.
We have a situation here of an apparently inacessible PC, at least as far as
Debbie & her friend are concerned.

Also we have an egotistical "I want you to" reply from Chad, with advice
ranging from a simple 'try hitting this key' to a complete Repair/Reinstall.

It's quite apparent from what he said that he doesn't fully understand what
Debbie's trying to say, so the obvious thing would be is just to ask a
couple of pertinent questions to get some clarification, instead of
surmising, going through all the fixes he thinks he knows and probably now
has completely confused the poor girl.

I'll sit back a bit on this one until I see Debbie's response & also how Mr.
("Lay it on me/The fat lady ain't done sung/fer sure") Harris sorts it out.

--

johnf

"Chad Harris" wrote in message
...
What do you do when *you can't get into Safe Mode John*? Lay it on me.
Because if that box will turn on, she might be able to change her bios
order to boot from a CD."Debbie can't even get into Safemode!" *So
what she can't get into Safe Mode?* The fat lady ain't done sung
because of that piece of info--or has she for you when that
happens?What do you do when *you can't get into Safe Mode John*? Lay
it on me. Until I know "fer sure", I can't assume that the box won't
turn on, nor that the advice I gave her isn't viable.

People can't get into safe mode but can recover a high percent of the
time. See:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Ht...ie=UTF-8&hl=en

I think the point is whether she can boot from the CD or she has a dead
box--whether there is a software problem that can be repaired or a
hardware problem where she and her friend will have to summon help. I
don't know for certain, because I'm not in Debbieland right now. That's
*why we have these groups John*. Until we know whether she can
turn the box on and see a firmware or POST screen and enter the bios,
then boot from the CD--the fact that she sees a blank screen that's
blue or dark gray or black doesn't rule that out. I've seen plenty of
"blank screens" where you pushed the button, got into bios setup,
changed the boot order, and booted from a CD of some type and repaired
the OS. I've been reading posts like hers for years, and much of the time
restoration was possible via a repair or parallel install and even
rarely and I mean rarely via Last Known Good, and a sketchy post like
that may mean a wide gamut of things from hardware failure to the
possibility that if she hard button starts, she can boot from the CD. I
don't know if nothing will come up when she tries to manually
restart her friend's computer or not. I'm not Carnack the Magician,
and I can only prompt people for more information they should have
given me in the first place. I see scores of posts on these groups where
the version of Office or
flavor of the OS is needed and never given not to mention other
relevant pieces of history?

BTW, what does "can't get into Safe Mode" mean to you? I'd be really
interested. It certainly doesn't mean that she's never going to see
Windows on that machine does it my man? Take a look at some recent
posts I've helped with on the XP General group?

Is there a point I'm missing in can't get up to Safe Mode? How about
an inplace upgrade booting from the CD? We don't really know if her
box is a door stop at this point or she still has some booting
ability, and after posting 35 or so exclamation points since 5:34AM
Debbie hasn't favored us with more helpful information.

The worst that could happen is that she tries every which way to
Christmas to tap to the bios setup and can't and then gets a "hands
on" help. But until then, my man, we don't know.

Would you assume everytime a doctor sees an isoelectric EKG on a
street or in a hospital room or a living room that the person is just
dead and non-resuscible, or that there might be moves that can get
things back to normal--or that it might even be fine fib masking as a
straight line? If a person is lying fairly still does that mean
they're dead--leave them alone?

I don't know whether that box will turn on and you don't either--and I
can't press the button for her.

I don't know whether she has an XP CD or her friend does or her
friend's friend does? I can only work with the hand that's dealt me. If
she does get some action out of the box, maybe I'll here from her. Some
people post and then decide to throw the box in their car and
take it some where. I can only work with what I see.

She and some other people also have a decent blue print for what to try
when they can't get into Safe Mode, and I have something I can paste to
help the next person, when in a few hours or days from now someone else
can't get into safe mode but can boot from the CD.

Best,

Chad Harris



The problem with a cut-and-paste post with the complexity of yours is
that while some of it may be completely on target for a given
situation, other parts won't apply at all, and may confuse the person
getting the message or convince them that you didn't read their message
and can't possibly have a useful answer, thus they'll ignore the good
advice given.
In this case, given the lack of clarity in the original question, an
attempt to get back into the bios or to boot from the CD make sense.
But the suggestion to download and run belarc to determine the bios is
a bit of a problem, as the poster isn't getting into Windows to be able
to run the program. Some people will key in on that bit of advice and
assume that you haven't read the question at all and are just posting
general repair advice that's not targeted at the particular problem at
hand.



  #9  
Old August 27th 04, 03:17 AM
D.Currie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default I need Help. "No Safe Mode" and...? Possibly an opportunity to recover.


"Chad Harris" wrote in message
...
D. Currie--

I think your suggestion about display and the monitor to Debbie is a very
good one well worth considering. The problem is we're not sure what's
happening on that box and we may never know.



With luck, they've found someone to help, as it's a problem that would be a
lot easier hands-on.


You wrote:

"The problem with a cut-and-paste post with the complexity of yours is
that
while some of it may be completely on target for a given situation, other
parts won't apply at all, and may confuse the person getting the message
or
convince them that you didn't read their message and can't possibly have a
useful answer, thus they'll ignore the good advice given."

That's why no cookie cutter cut and pastes are ever launched from me.



I was responding to your comment that you'd have something to paste to help
the next person. If that's not what you meant, that's the way I read it. I
have no idea if you cut and paste or not, I'm just responding to what you
wrote.


I don't think it's that complex a situation.



No, but it was an extremely complex answer for someone with few computer
skills. I was responding to the complexity of the answer, not on the
complexitiy of the problem. For someone who knows what they're doing,
changing the bios to boot from CD or running a repair install of WIndows is
not a big effort. For someone who's in new territory, just getting into the
bios and figuring out how to navigate it can be a daunting task.


When you can't boot to
Windows, and you're dealiing with an NTFS File System or a Win-FS file
system in the next Windows OS, you don't have a wide panopoly of options.
There are actually relatively few simple ones.



I can think of dozens of reasons why a computer might not get all the way
into Windows. Not all of them are software-related. A bad stick of ram, for
instance, can do some pretty interesting things.


Here though, I agree we just
don't know what the dark screen means. It may well be a monitor problem
or bios triggered problem.

In addition to cutting and pasting, I delete and write the posts and
tailor them to the situation. Mosf of them are on the fly, because I
either can't get to folders with stashed references or it's just faster
for me to nail the article by searching. I tend to want to respond to an
"I can't get to Windows--I'm gonna lose my data and settings help!!!!!--(I
may not have backed up adequately)" type post and I get about 100%
feedback on them and lately that hasn't been the case that they are
convinced I didn't read their message and can't possibly give a useful
answer and will ignore. That's not what the tone of the feedback has been
on the "can't boot to Windows."



You seem to be taking this all a little too seriously and perhaps
misunderstanding what I'm saying. I was merely pointing out that when a
person says they get a black screen "after the first screen" whatever that
might be, and they can't get into Windows any which way, and your response
includes instructions to download and install Belarc so they can figure out
what their bios is, they may think that you haven't fully read their post.

There's nothing wrong with telling someone about Belarc or suggesting that
it's useful for gathering information, but in this instance, it doesn't
apply.


I figure the reason I learned to write was not to shove cookie cutter "one
size fits all" solutions at people. However, I think everyone who tries
to help on the usenet/groups/forums stashes posts with links they can
borrow so they don't have to go throught the time consuming painstaking
search trying to find the system restore, system file checker, or
recovery console link or KB, when all of us are trying to help with the
demands and pressures of making a living.

Best,

Chad Harris
_________________________________________________



There's certainly nothing wrong with having stock answers available if the
situation applies.


  #10  
Old August 27th 04, 05:52 AM
Harry Ohrn
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default I need HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Does your friend have an XP CD that she either bought or came with the
computer? If so she may be able to revert back to a pre-SP2 state using
either of the 2 tips at this site
http://www.webtree.ca/windowsxp/repair_xp.htm

--

Harry Ohrn MS-MVP [Shell/User]
www.webtree.ca/windowsxp


"Debbie" wrote in message
...
We downloaded the service pack on our friends computer
and then she started having trouble with the reboot it
would only come to the first screen it would not even get
to the window xp screen but a message on along the bottom
showed up with hit tab for exit and hit delete for setup.
I went into the setup section by accident and hit
something now the screen is completely blank. Nothing
comes up. We have tried rebooting insafe mode and
everything PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Deb



  #11  
Old August 27th 04, 04:23 PM
Chad Harris
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default I need Help. "No Safe Mode" and...? Possibly an opportunity to recover.

1) Of course, a high percent of these problems would be a lot easier hands
on. But we don't enjoy that luxury in this setting.

2) I didn't write this. *You* wrote it ( You quoted yourself there).

"The problem with a cut-and-paste post with the complexity of yours is
thatwhile some of it may be completely on target for a given situation,
other
parts won't apply at all, and may confuse the person getting the message
or
convince them that you didn't read their message and can't possibly have a
useful answer, thus they'll ignore the good advice given"


3) Like most anyone, I cut and paste when I need to put a link or links into
a post or parts of a previous post that I think are appropriate.

4) "For someone who knows what they're doing, changing the bios to boot from
CD or running a repair install of WIndows is not a big effort.For someone
who's in new territory, just getting into the bios and figuring out how to
navigate it can be a daunting task." Most of us have been in enough teaching
and helping situations on the giving or receiving end to appreciate the
empathy here. No one I see posting wasn't a beginner at some point in their
lives or isn't a beginner now in some area of their learning curves. It may
be a big effort, but clear instructions are in the MSKB or link I give them
every single time I mention going into bios setup. Since I can't be there
on the machine, I always have the empathy to include clear instructions to
get to the bios. Instructions navigating the bios are on the web, and of
course many times the person may have the huge inconvenience of access to
only one box and needing to use the internet by borrowing one from a friend
or someone else. That's a given. I can only give the clearest set of
instructions I think will help them and I try not to camuoflage it in
information for other purposes. The inplace upgrade MSKB, Michael Stevens'
instructions and screenshots of an inplace upgrade are about as clear as it
gets to do one.

Also having experienced the boot to windows problem early on as a beginner,
I can compare some of the help in posts I do or see here and what they are
going to get when they call on the phone to MSFT Support which is not going
to be MSFT but Convergys or an OEM help line.
It's not going to mention half the possibilities a high percent of the time.

5) I can think of dozens of reasons why a computer might not get all the
way
into Windows. Not all of them are software-related. A bad stick of ram, for
instance, can do some pretty interesting things.

Anyone can think of dozens of hardware related reasons why someone can't get
to Windows. That's right. And some accounts of the problem are a lot more
explicit and specific than the one Debbie who hasn't posted since offered
and can give clues to that. There's probably no one who responds to a
"can't boot to windows problem" that doesn't appreciate every point your
trying to make. We know it can be hardware related. We know they may only
have one box to work with with them that can be dead or not able to reach
the web.

"A bad stick of ram, for instance, can do some pretty interesting things."
Thanks for the earth shaking revelation here. I had no idea a bad stick
or RAM, or a loose stick of ram, or a loose anything made of metal or cord
can do some pretty interesting things.

6) "But it was an extremely complex answer for someone with few computer
skills" I disagree. I think it was an extremely on point answer and the
person with few computer skills may have summoned a friend who could help
execute it. It beat the hell out of ignoring what was a conspicuous plea
for help in upper-case with those little punctuation marks called
explanation points about 35 times.

7) Often in these situations, someone will be working from a friend's laptop
or notebook or PDA to do the post and access the web, so using Belarc to get
info is not out of the question. Many people will remember what key they
have seen a few hundred times to use to get into the bios on the firmware
screen but will not have realized its context when they stared at it on each
boot.
For this reason, using Belarc, Everest Home, SiSoft Sandra, or msinfo 32 in
the run box will often apply to help someone get into the bios setup.
Navigating the bios is explained in any number of sites if you google with
those words and have an additional box to google with.

In a perfect world, someone might have that assistance you invoke readily
available but often they don't, can't get it, or can't afford it. That's one
reason they're here.

8) None of my answers are "stock answers." They are tailored to the
problem I see.

9) I missed besides critiquing me and the plug in the monitor suggestion
what you offered her to help. I don't think anyone who posts doesn't
realize competent hands on help is a good thing to get if they can. Often
the person will summon a lot of help on the group, people will do the best
they can in that format, and rush out after posting the dilemma with the
box, and never look at the group again.

Thanks for the novice posting tips D. Currie. They'd best be directed to a
novice posting forum.

I'll continue to try to respond to a request for help when data is at stake
and work with what I'm given. Fortunately, unlike this case the poster has
enough manners when they've put up a plea for help to answer questions that
may make it easier to help them, but about 10% of the time as in this case,
nothing is heard from them after their first frantic plea.

Best,

Chad Harris
_________________________________

"D.Currie" wrote in message
...

"Chad Harris" wrote in message
...
D. Currie--

I think your suggestion about display and the monitor to Debbie is a very
good one well worth considering. The problem is we're not sure what's
happening on that box and we may never know.



With luck, they've found someone to help, as it's a problem that would be a
lot easier hands-on.


You wrote:

"The problem with a cut-and-paste post with the complexity of yours is
that
while some of it may be completely on target for a given situation, other
parts won't apply at all, and may confuse the person getting the message
or
convince them that you didn't read their message and can't possibly have a
useful answer, thus they'll ignore the good advice given."

That's why no cookie cutter cut and pastes are ever launched from me.



I was responding to your comment that you'd have something to paste to help
the next person. If that's not what you meant, that's the way I read it. I
have no idea if you cut and paste or not, I'm just responding to what you
wrote.


I don't think it's that complex a situation.



No, but it was an extremely complex answer for someone with few computer
skills. I was responding to the complexity of the answer, not on the
complexitiy of the problem. For someone who knows what they're doing,
changing the bios to boot from CD or running a repair install of WIndows is
not a big effort. For someone who's in new territory, just getting into the
bios and figuring out how to navigate it can be a daunting task.


When you can't boot to
Windows, and you're dealiing with an NTFS File System or a Win-FS file
system in the next Windows OS, you don't have a wide panopoly of options.
There are actually relatively few simple ones.



I can think of dozens of reasons why a computer might not get all the way
into Windows. Not all of them are software-related. A bad stick of ram, for
instance, can do some pretty interesting things.


Here though, I agree we just
don't know what the dark screen means. It may well be a monitor problem
or bios triggered problem.

In addition to cutting and pasting, I delete and write the posts and
tailor them to the situation. Mosf of them are on the fly, because I
either can't get to folders with stashed references or it's just faster
for me to nail the article by searching. I tend to want to respond to an
"I can't get to Windows--I'm gonna lose my data and settings help!!!!!--(I
may not have backed up adequately)" type post and I get about 100%
feedback on them and lately that hasn't been the case that they are
convinced I didn't read their message and can't possibly give a useful
answer and will ignore. That's not what the tone of the feedback has been
on the "can't boot to Windows."



You seem to be taking this all a little too seriously and perhaps
misunderstanding what I'm saying. I was merely pointing out that when a
person says they get a black screen "after the first screen" whatever that
might be, and they can't get into Windows any which way, and your response
includes instructions to download and install Belarc so they can figure out
what their bios is, they may think that you haven't fully read their post.

There's nothing wrong with telling someone about Belarc or suggesting that
it's useful for gathering information, but in this instance, it doesn't
apply.


I figure the reason I learned to write was not to shove cookie cutter "one
size fits all" solutions at people. However, I think everyone who tries
to help on the usenet/groups/forums stashes posts with links they can
borrow so they don't have to go throught the time consuming painstaking
search trying to find the system restore, system file checker, or
recovery console link or KB, when all of us are trying to help with the
demands and pressures of making a living.

Best,

Chad Harris
_________________________________________________



There's certainly nothing wrong with having stock answers available if the
situation applies.


  #12  
Old August 27th 04, 04:37 PM
Chad Harris
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Johnf Congratulations on becoming self-appointed critic with no constructive help.

As far as Debbie and her friend who haven't posted anything further than
their frantic plea, they can probably either

1) Remeber the firmware screen key they looked at a few thousand times when
they booted to tell you how to get into the bios setup
2) Have access to an additional computer.

Many people in a no boot situation are inconvenienced when they can't use
another computer because some of the instruction they might want or need is
on the web. That's an understood given. But if they don't remember what
key to press or who makes their bios, than Everest, Belarc, SiSoft Sandra,
or "msinfo 32" in the run box will give it to them.

If the "poor girl" is confused my man, she could post. I haven't seen a
scintilla from her. That happens about 10% of the time. Often someone
makes a panicked plea for help and then throws their box in the car and runs
to a place to get it "fixed." The "poor girl" didn't have the courtesy to
post more information than she posted and she got useful information to try.
If she has a hardware problem, she's not going to be the one fixing it and
none of the information is going to cause a setback for a hardware problem I
gave. I saw 35 explanation points and a plea for help, and my links were on
point and similar links and posts have helped a lot of people. Whether a
self appointed critic like you sits back or stands on your head, one thing
is certain--you're good at taking pot shots, but have nothing to offer in
the way of substantive and constructive suggestions for a problem situation.

I've asked a few pertinent questions for clarification on these groups a few
thousand times, and that takes the person posting to give more information.
I've also seen a lot of worthless posts that will primly, arrogantly and
imperiously ask one small question instead of posting what will have a high
percentage yield in getting back to Windows.

There are few people that don't appreciate that hardware problems of all
stripes can cause what may be going on here with the nebulous description,
but a high percent of time a repair/in place upgrade will remedy the
problem.

"Also we have an egotistical "I want you to" reply from Chad, with advice
ranging from a simple 'try hitting this key' to a complete
Repair/Reinstall."

There was nothing egoticstical; there was no "I want you to" whatever the
hell that means, and there was not advice that said "try hitting this key
anywhere.

"I'll sit back a bit on this one." I think you've perfected the art of
sitting back. You're doing it well.

You seem to have perfected sitting back a whole lot; offering nothing of
value that the poster could have used, and self-appointing yourself a
posting critique for this group.

It is easy to sit back which is why you do it, and take pot shots at efforts
to help, sling names like egotistical and offer not one thing of value that
would help anyone solve a problem.

If being the self appointed critique floats your boat, go for it.

Chad Harris




"johnf" wrote in message
...
Exactly. It was the Belarc advice that prompted me to reply.
We have a situation here of an apparently inacessible PC, at least as far as
Debbie & her friend are concerned.

Also we have an egotistical "I want you to" reply from Chad, with advice
ranging from a simple 'try hitting this key' to a complete Repair/Reinstall.

It's quite apparent from what he said that he doesn't fully understand what
Debbie's trying to say, so the obvious thing would be is just to ask a
couple of pertinent questions to get some clarification, instead of
surmising, going through all the fixes he thinks he knows and probably now
has completely confused the poor girl.

I'll sit back a bit on this one until I see Debbie's response & also how Mr.
("Lay it on me/The fat lady ain't done sung/fer sure") Harris sorts it out.

--

johnf

"Chad Harris" wrote in message
...
What do you do when *you can't get into Safe Mode John*? Lay it on me.
Because if that box will turn on, she might be able to change her bios
order to boot from a CD."Debbie can't even get into Safemode!" *So
what she can't get into Safe Mode?* The fat lady ain't done sung
because of that piece of info--or has she for you when that
happens?What do you do when *you can't get into Safe Mode John*? Lay
it on me. Until I know "fer sure", I can't assume that the box won't
turn on, nor that the advice I gave her isn't viable.

People can't get into safe mode but can recover a high percent of the
time. See:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Ht...ie=UTF-8&hl=en

I think the point is whether she can boot from the CD or she has a dead
box--whether there is a software problem that can be repaired or a
hardware problem where she and her friend will have to summon help. I
don't know for certain, because I'm not in Debbieland right now. That's
*why we have these groups John*. Until we know whether she can
turn the box on and see a firmware or POST screen and enter the bios,
then boot from the CD--the fact that she sees a blank screen that's
blue or dark gray or black doesn't rule that out. I've seen plenty of
"blank screens" where you pushed the button, got into bios setup,
changed the boot order, and booted from a CD of some type and repaired
the OS. I've been reading posts like hers for years, and much of the time
restoration was possible via a repair or parallel install and even
rarely and I mean rarely via Last Known Good, and a sketchy post like
that may mean a wide gamut of things from hardware failure to the
possibility that if she hard button starts, she can boot from the CD. I
don't know if nothing will come up when she tries to manually
restart her friend's computer or not. I'm not Carnack the Magician,
and I can only prompt people for more information they should have
given me in the first place. I see scores of posts on these groups where
the version of Office or
flavor of the OS is needed and never given not to mention other
relevant pieces of history?

BTW, what does "can't get into Safe Mode" mean to you? I'd be really
interested. It certainly doesn't mean that she's never going to see
Windows on that machine does it my man? Take a look at some recent
posts I've helped with on the XP General group?

Is there a point I'm missing in can't get up to Safe Mode? How about
an inplace upgrade booting from the CD? We don't really know if her
box is a door stop at this point or she still has some booting
ability, and after posting 35 or so exclamation points since 5:34AM
Debbie hasn't favored us with more helpful information.

The worst that could happen is that she tries every which way to
Christmas to tap to the bios setup and can't and then gets a "hands
on" help. But until then, my man, we don't know.

Would you assume everytime a doctor sees an isoelectric EKG on a
street or in a hospital room or a living room that the person is just
dead and non-resuscible, or that there might be moves that can get
things back to normal--or that it might even be fine fib masking as a
straight line? If a person is lying fairly still does that mean
they're dead--leave them alone?

I don't know whether that box will turn on and you don't either--and I
can't press the button for her.

I don't know whether she has an XP CD or her friend does or her
friend's friend does? I can only work with the hand that's dealt me. If
she does get some action out of the box, maybe I'll here from her. Some
people post and then decide to throw the box in their car and
take it some where. I can only work with what I see.

She and some other people also have a decent blue print for what to try
when they can't get into Safe Mode, and I have something I can paste to
help the next person, when in a few hours or days from now someone else
can't get into safe mode but can boot from the CD.

Best,

Chad Harris



The problem with a cut-and-paste post with the complexity of yours is
that while some of it may be completely on target for a given
situation, other parts won't apply at all, and may confuse the person
getting the message or convince them that you didn't read their message
and can't possibly have a useful answer, thus they'll ignore the good
advice given.
In this case, given the lack of clarity in the original question, an
attempt to get back into the bios or to boot from the CD make sense.
But the suggestion to download and run belarc to determine the bios is
a bit of a problem, as the poster isn't getting into Windows to be able
to run the program. Some people will key in on that bit of advice and
assume that you haven't read the question at all and are just posting
general repair advice that's not targeted at the particular problem at
hand.



  #13  
Old August 27th 04, 04:48 PM
Chad Harris
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default What a huge surprise!--no "johnf" post on any group that offers help!!!

*There isn't *one post* on any of these groups currently where "johnf" has
offered anthing to remedy a problem. What a collossal surprise that is!!!
Mr. critique who specializes in the art of the critic only but can't begin
to post an actual solution to a problem.

Chad Harris
_________________________________________
"johnf" wrote in message
...
Exactly. It was the Belarc advice that prompted me to reply.
We have a situation here of an apparently inacessible PC, at least as far as
Debbie & her friend are concerned.

Also we have an egotistical "I want you to" reply from Chad, with advice
ranging from a simple 'try hitting this key' to a complete Repair/Reinstall.

It's quite apparent from what he said that he doesn't fully understand what
Debbie's trying to say, so the obvious thing would be is just to ask a
couple of pertinent questions to get some clarification, instead of
surmising, going through all the fixes he thinks he knows and probably now
has completely confused the poor girl.

I'll sit back a bit on this one until I see Debbie's response & also how Mr.
("Lay it on me/The fat lady ain't done sung/fer sure") Harris sorts it out.

--

johnf

"Chad Harris" wrote in message
...
What do you do when *you can't get into Safe Mode John*? Lay it on me.
Because if that box will turn on, she might be able to change her bios
order to boot from a CD."Debbie can't even get into Safemode!" *So
what she can't get into Safe Mode?* The fat lady ain't done sung
because of that piece of info--or has she for you when that
happens?What do you do when *you can't get into Safe Mode John*? Lay
it on me. Until I know "fer sure", I can't assume that the box won't
turn on, nor that the advice I gave her isn't viable.

People can't get into safe mode but can recover a high percent of the
time. See:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Ht...ie=UTF-8&hl=en

I think the point is whether she can boot from the CD or she has a dead
box--whether there is a software problem that can be repaired or a
hardware problem where she and her friend will have to summon help. I
don't know for certain, because I'm not in Debbieland right now. That's
*why we have these groups John*. Until we know whether she can
turn the box on and see a firmware or POST screen and enter the bios,
then boot from the CD--the fact that she sees a blank screen that's
blue or dark gray or black doesn't rule that out. I've seen plenty of
"blank screens" where you pushed the button, got into bios setup,
changed the boot order, and booted from a CD of some type and repaired
the OS. I've been reading posts like hers for years, and much of the time
restoration was possible via a repair or parallel install and even
rarely and I mean rarely via Last Known Good, and a sketchy post like
that may mean a wide gamut of things from hardware failure to the
possibility that if she hard button starts, she can boot from the CD. I
don't know if nothing will come up when she tries to manually
restart her friend's computer or not. I'm not Carnack the Magician,
and I can only prompt people for more information they should have
given me in the first place. I see scores of posts on these groups where
the version of Office or
flavor of the OS is needed and never given not to mention other
relevant pieces of history?

BTW, what does "can't get into Safe Mode" mean to you? I'd be really
interested. It certainly doesn't mean that she's never going to see
Windows on that machine does it my man? Take a look at some recent
posts I've helped with on the XP General group?

Is there a point I'm missing in can't get up to Safe Mode? How about
an inplace upgrade booting from the CD? We don't really know if her
box is a door stop at this point or she still has some booting
ability, and after posting 35 or so exclamation points since 5:34AM
Debbie hasn't favored us with more helpful information.

The worst that could happen is that she tries every which way to
Christmas to tap to the bios setup and can't and then gets a "hands
on" help. But until then, my man, we don't know.

Would you assume everytime a doctor sees an isoelectric EKG on a
street or in a hospital room or a living room that the person is just
dead and non-resuscible, or that there might be moves that can get
things back to normal--or that it might even be fine fib masking as a
straight line? If a person is lying fairly still does that mean
they're dead--leave them alone?

I don't know whether that box will turn on and you don't either--and I
can't press the button for her.

I don't know whether she has an XP CD or her friend does or her
friend's friend does? I can only work with the hand that's dealt me. If
she does get some action out of the box, maybe I'll here from her. Some
people post and then decide to throw the box in their car and
take it some where. I can only work with what I see.

She and some other people also have a decent blue print for what to try
when they can't get into Safe Mode, and I have something I can paste to
help the next person, when in a few hours or days from now someone else
can't get into safe mode but can boot from the CD.

Best,

Chad Harris



The problem with a cut-and-paste post with the complexity of yours is
that while some of it may be completely on target for a given
situation, other parts won't apply at all, and may confuse the person
getting the message or convince them that you didn't read their message
and can't possibly have a useful answer, thus they'll ignore the good
advice given.
In this case, given the lack of clarity in the original question, an
attempt to get back into the bios or to boot from the CD make sense.
But the suggestion to download and run belarc to determine the bios is
a bit of a problem, as the poster isn't getting into Windows to be able
to run the program. Some people will key in on that bit of advice and
assume that you haven't read the question at all and are just posting
general repair advice that's not targeted at the particular problem at
hand.



  #14  
Old August 27th 04, 08:09 PM
D.Currie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default I need Help. "No Safe Mode" and...? Possibly an opportunity to recover.


"Chad Harris" wrote in message
...
1) Of course, a high percent of these problems would be a lot easier hands
on. But we don't enjoy that luxury in this setting.

2) I didn't write this. *You* wrote it ( You quoted yourself there).



No, I didn't quote myself, that's the first time I said it. What's your
point?



"The problem with a cut-and-paste post with the complexity of yours is
thatwhile some of it may be completely on target for a given situation,
other
parts won't apply at all, and may confuse the person getting the message
or
convince them that you didn't read their message and can't possibly have
a
useful answer, thus they'll ignore the good advice given"


3) Like most anyone, I cut and paste when I need to put a link or links
into a post or parts of a previous post that I think are appropriate.

4) "For someone who knows what they're doing, changing the bios to boot
from CD or running a repair install of WIndows is not a big effort.For
someone who's in new territory, just getting into the bios and figuring
out how to navigate it can be a daunting task." Most of us have been in
enough teaching and helping situations on the giving or receiving end to
appreciate the empathy here. No one I see posting wasn't a beginner at
some point in their lives or isn't a beginner now in some area of their
learning curves. It may be a big effort, but clear instructions are in
the MSKB or link I give them every single time I mention going into bios
setup. Since I can't be there on the machine, I always have the empathy
to include clear instructions to get to the bios. Instructions navigating
the bios are on the web, and of course many times the person may have the
huge inconvenience of access to only one box and needing to use the
internet by borrowing one from a friend or someone else. That's a given.
I can only give the clearest set of instructions I think will help them
and I try not to camuoflage it in information for other purposes. The
inplace upgrade MSKB, Michael Stevens' instructions and screenshots of an
inplace upgrade are about as clear as it gets to do one.

Also having experienced the boot to windows problem early on as a
beginner, I can compare some of the help in posts I do or see here and
what they are going to get when they call on the phone to MSFT Support
which is not going to be MSFT but Convergys or an OEM help line.
It's not going to mention half the possibilities a high percent of the
time.



I have no idea why you're getting your undies in a knot over this. I just
said that it was a complex answer for someone who isn't very computer saavy.
I didn't say that there was anything wrong with it. Complex is not a value
judgement; it's not good or bad. It's complex, simple, or somewhere in
between. Your answer had a lot of information, a lot of steps involved, a
need to follow links elsewhere and read material that was even more
complicated and technical, therefor I think that it is a little complicated
for someone who isn't used to this type of thing.



5) I can think of dozens of reasons why a computer might not get all the
way
into Windows. Not all of them are software-related. A bad stick of ram,
for
instance, can do some pretty interesting things.

Anyone can think of dozens of hardware related reasons why someone can't
get to Windows. That's right. And some accounts of the problem are a lot
more explicit and specific than the one Debbie who hasn't posted since
offered and can give clues to that. There's probably no one who responds
to a "can't boot to windows problem" that doesn't appreciate every point
your trying to make. We know it can be hardware related. We know they
may only have one box to work with with them that can be dead or not able
to reach the web.

"A bad stick of ram, for instance, can do some pretty interesting things."
Thanks for the earth shaking revelation here. I had no idea a bad stick
or RAM, or a loose stick of ram, or a loose anything made of metal or cord
can do some pretty interesting things.



This is what you said:

"you don't have a wide panopoly of options.
There are actually relatively few simple ones.


....which is what I responded to. Maybe your definition of relatively few is
different than mine.


6) "But it was an extremely complex answer for someone with few computer
skills" I disagree. I think it was an extremely on point answer and the
person with few computer skills may have summoned a friend who could help
execute it. It beat the hell out of ignoring what was a conspicuous plea
for help in upper-case with those little punctuation marks called
explanation points about 35 times.



Fine. You don't think that your answer was complex for someone with few
computer skills. I did. What's the big deal? I never said you were wrong, so
why is this such a big deal?



7) Often in these situations, someone will be working from a friend's
laptop or notebook or PDA to do the post and access the web, so using
Belarc to get info is not out of the question. Many people will remember
what key they have seen a few hundred times to use to get into the bios on
the firmware screen but will not have realized its context when they
stared at it on each boot.
For this reason, using Belarc, Everest Home, SiSoft Sandra, or msinfo 32
in the run box will often apply to help someone get into the bios setup.
Navigating the bios is explained in any number of sites if you google
with those words and have an additional box to google with.



Except that she couldn't get into Windows to get to the "run" box. This is
the *only* part of your post that I pointed out was not on point for this
particular user.



In a perfect world, someone might have that assistance you invoke readily
available but often they don't, can't get it, or can't afford it. That's
one reason they're here.

8) None of my answers are "stock answers." They are tailored to the
problem I see.


I didn't say your answers were. I said there was nothing wrong with stock
answers. A lot of people use them rather than endlessly retyping the same
thing over and over to answer some of the commonly asked questions here.


9) I missed besides critiquing me



Ah, is that was this was about? That I was critiqueing you? I think you
misread it. I was responding originally to your comment that :

"and I have something I can paste to
help the next person, when in a few hours or days from now someone else
can't get into safe mode but can boot from the CD"


I was pointing out that it was a rather complex answer with a lot of
information which may not apply in the next case.


and the plug in the monitor suggestion
what you offered her to help. I don't think anyone who posts doesn't
realize competent hands on help is a good thing to get if they can. Often
the person will summon a lot of help on the group, people will do the best
they can in that format, and rush out after posting the dilemma with the
box, and never look at the group again.

Thanks for the novice posting tips D. Currie. They'd best be directed to
a novice posting forum.



You seem to be reading a lot into my comments that simply aren't there.



I'll continue to try to respond to a request for help when data is at
stake and work with what I'm given. Fortunately, unlike this case the
poster has enough manners when they've put up a plea for help to answer
questions that may make it easier to help them, but about 10% of the time
as in this case, nothing is heard from them after their first frantic
plea.

Best,

Chad Harris


Nice that you're still going to help.


_________________________________

"D.Currie" wrote in message
...

"Chad Harris" wrote in message
...
D. Currie--

I think your suggestion about display and the monitor to Debbie is a very
good one well worth considering. The problem is we're not sure what's
happening on that box and we may never know.



With luck, they've found someone to help, as it's a problem that would be
a
lot easier hands-on.


You wrote:

"The problem with a cut-and-paste post with the complexity of yours is
that
while some of it may be completely on target for a given situation, other
parts won't apply at all, and may confuse the person getting the message
or
convince them that you didn't read their message and can't possibly have
a
useful answer, thus they'll ignore the good advice given."

That's why no cookie cutter cut and pastes are ever launched from me.



I was responding to your comment that you'd have something to paste to
help
the next person. If that's not what you meant, that's the way I read it. I
have no idea if you cut and paste or not, I'm just responding to what you
wrote.


I don't think it's that complex a situation.



No, but it was an extremely complex answer for someone with few computer
skills. I was responding to the complexity of the answer, not on the
complexitiy of the problem. For someone who knows what they're doing,
changing the bios to boot from CD or running a repair install of WIndows
is
not a big effort. For someone who's in new territory, just getting into
the
bios and figuring out how to navigate it can be a daunting task.


When you can't boot to
Windows, and you're dealiing with an NTFS File System or a Win-FS file
system in the next Windows OS, you don't have a wide panopoly of
options. There are actually relatively few simple ones.



I can think of dozens of reasons why a computer might not get all the way
into Windows. Not all of them are software-related. A bad stick of ram,
for
instance, can do some pretty interesting things.


Here though, I agree we just
don't know what the dark screen means. It may well be a monitor problem
or bios triggered problem.

In addition to cutting and pasting, I delete and write the posts and
tailor them to the situation. Mosf of them are on the fly, because I
either can't get to folders with stashed references or it's just faster
for me to nail the article by searching. I tend to want to respond to an
"I can't get to Windows--I'm gonna lose my data and settings
help!!!!!--(I may not have backed up adequately)" type post and I get
about 100% feedback on them and lately that hasn't been the case that
they are convinced I didn't read their message and can't possibly give a
useful answer and will ignore. That's not what the tone of the feedback
has been on the "can't boot to Windows."



You seem to be taking this all a little too seriously and perhaps
misunderstanding what I'm saying. I was merely pointing out that when a
person says they get a black screen "after the first screen" whatever that
might be, and they can't get into Windows any which way, and your response
includes instructions to download and install Belarc so they can figure
out
what their bios is, they may think that you haven't fully read their post.

There's nothing wrong with telling someone about Belarc or suggesting that
it's useful for gathering information, but in this instance, it doesn't
apply.


I figure the reason I learned to write was not to shove cookie cutter
"one size fits all" solutions at people. However, I think everyone who
tries to help on the usenet/groups/forums stashes posts with links they
can borrow so they don't have to go throught the time consuming
painstaking search trying to find the system restore, system file
checker, or recovery console link or KB, when all of us are trying to
help with the demands and pressures of making a living.

Best,

Chad Harris
_________________________________________________



There's certainly nothing wrong with having stock answers available if the
situation applies.



  #15  
Old August 27th 04, 10:09 PM
Chad Harris
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Still looking for the D. Currie Guide to Emergency Windows Recovery

1) I don't see what possible efficiency is gained by pasting the entire post
of someone or serial excerpting it at the top of your answer to them. If
it's any component of usenet or newsgroup etiquette, it's tantamount to
getting out of your car in the middle of a busy intersection to wave and bow
at someone--the text you're pasting at the top is already included by native
design in the OE nnttp setup at the bottom. Why stick it in the way at the
top?

Additionally, all anyone has to do is click on a message and they can hit
the up and down arrow and see what went before if scrolling is too much of a
chore.

"No, I didn't quote myself, that's the first time I said it. What's your
point?" My point was that I didn't write it, you did.

2) Anyway you slice it D. Currie, if someone can't boot to Windows as was
represented in the vague post, there is no one key solution. I've helped
in all kinds of these scenarios in this format, and I'm sure you have.
Although there is no firm rule for sure, a number of stop errors and a BSOD,
which MSFT is progressively phasing out for psychological impact and
replacing with small dialogue boxes with hyperlinks to "more information"
which are pure unadulterated hex you can scroll down and drool at, reference
a symptom of some kind of hardware error, but as you also know that's not
always the case. Sometimes yo can do a repair install.

Often, but there is no rule here, when someone is led to a Windows Advanced
Options choice, there is a software solution.

If someone poses that they can't boot to Windows and is screaming for help,
but is unwilling or unable to provide any more information than this poster,
and you want to help, you have to convey some way that one of the options
may well be that you do a repair install.

"who isn't very computer saavy." I would say this poster isn't in the "not
very computer savvy category, and not a complete novice. She and her buddy
knew enough emergency recovery to try to boot into safe mode (probably to
use system restore from there). So "computer savvy" attributes are
relative.

The bios setup takes a little getting used to particuarly since MSFT takes
the minimalist approach to using the keys to get out of a particular area or
even to change the boot order--they could explain it much better, but clear
English and Redmond Product managers, product teams and developers still
have a lot of bridges to cross before they meet. This is evident all over
Windows XP and its menus and dialogue boxes. This is evident right now in a
search that is far less efficient and more erratic than Outlook's new add-in
Lookout that will be incorporated into the search in conjunction with
Longhorn's Win FS file system that the evangelists are blogging about.


If you look at this KB which I included originally, it offers a fairly
logical and easy to follow set of steps to try to recover. It includes
hardware considerations to a degree. I think so and Microsoft thinks so
because they offered this KB. They didn't stick it in the MSDN library and
you don't have to be particuarly computer savvy to follow any of those KBs.
All you have to do is click a mouse. The poster already knew enough to
try to F8 to Safe Mode, so how the hell complex could it be to click and
read links like this one, and links I provided that screenshot them into the
bios setup.


Resources for troubleshooting startup problems in Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/default...&Product=winxp

If you know a clearer way to tell someone that can't get into safe mode,
that they can try pushing a button on the computer and seeing if they can
tap into bios setup (with clear instructions linked) and then do a repair
install let me know. Let's say if Debbie doesn't do throw her box into the
car to dump into some repair place's lap, and tries this what is the down
side? If she can't follow the directions, she knows where she posted in the
first place and people will dive in to help.

3) I ain't got no undies in no knot. However, I have *no idea* why you and
johnf have yet to post any helpful solution rather than spend all the effort
criticizing my post as "complex." We don't know if it's too complex or not,
and if the lady can't follow it she can ask someone here or elsewhere what
to do. I just know a lot of people who can't boot to Windows and don't have
a hardware problem like a loose memory stick or cable that requires a laying
on of hands to their computer hardware, get their systems intact by trying
my instructions. The problem got complicated because while the poster could
have explained whether anything could be seen from that monitor, she didn't,
and 36 hours later it hasn't been a pressing priority.

4) I'm still waiting with bated breath to see the answer you would put that
would explain how to change the bios order and do a repair/upgrade install
into your chapter if you were asked to write the Troubleshooting chapter of
the Windows Resource kit.

5) I think repair install is a really viable option, and is much easier and
less traumatic than the scenario a lot of people end up with which is wiping
and loading, with no decent backup and losing a lot of data and settings. A
system restore doesn't guarantee you won't lose data, and as Michael Solomon
in his posts (and the related MSKBs and web sites on repair installs) are
always careful to point out neither does an upgrade install. It's software,
so nothing is guaranteed. But if it works, and it often does, it beats the
hell out of starting over and losing data. There has to be some way to
relate it. Maybe a little context between the links would help, but the
links do a nice job of explaining the steps, and I take care to include a
link with detailed screenshots of the actual steps.

6) If the problem doesn't involve hardware manipulation, you don't have a
lot of options period. There are specialized tools like NTFS Dos Bootdisk
and NTFS reader for dos here, that expand your options
http://www.ntfs.com/products.htm but the average person may find these a
little more difficult to find and daunting to use

I'm sure it's a daunting problem to a lot of people. I enjoy seeing
something work and the triumph of recovering from a bad spot. I never am
happy at the prospect that I can't get to Windows on a box all of a sudden.

7) "Fine. You don't think that your answer was complex for someone with few
computer skills. I did. What's the big deal? I never said you were wrong, so
why is this such a big deal?" I don't have anyway of assessing whether she
or her buddy have few computer skills and neither do you. She could have
given a lot better description of her problem. It sounded like it had been
posted in haste and with a backdrop of some understandable frustration--I
don't think it was any accurate index that she couldn't follow directions I
gave her--that downloading Belarc or similar software which does a great job
for free and lists things in neater print than my handwriting or using
msinfo in any runbox--one borrowed, one on an internet connected cell phone,
one on a PDA, one at an internet cafe could do.

I think it's quintissentially lame to criticize one of the very few options
in software recovery for the problem that was posed without offering your
own version. A repair or upgrade install is one of the few software
options. If there are a wide variety of software recovery options, nothing
has stoped you from stating what they are or how you would make instructions
to boot from the CD and do an upgrade/repair install any clearer or less
complex.

I think johnf was even more lame when I haven't found one time on any of
these newsgroups where he has posted even a comma of a solution for anyone.

I'm still waiting to see how you would format the explanation of booting
from the CD and doing a repair install. I thought my links were carefully
chosen and did the job admirably and I'm not sure that the poster was such a
"novice" that she couldn't follow them if she knew enough to get into Safe
Mode via F8 or via the Windows Advanced Options Menu if it showed up on her
screen when and if she turned on that monitor and the PC.

8) There are always the options that you and johnf seem to be suggesting.
You could blow off the request for help and ignore it, or you could post a
wonderfully helpful comment that you think she needs to get help at her
location or to take the PC somewhere to get help. Otherwise, I'd like to
see how you would relay that a repair install is one of the least traumatic
options if it works, and the problem is not remedied by a hands on hardware
repair solution.

9) "extremely complex answer" I'd be delighted to see your version of an
extremely concise straight forward simple answer in contrast on how to do a
repair install. You've balked at showing me the way you would state it. I
can't wait to drag it into a folder.

"Your answer had a lot of information, a lot of steps involved" It had the
steps involved to do the job from 3 of the clearest, most concise sources I
could find. The MSKB on it which is not complex, Michael Stevens' clear
instructions (a MSFT MVP with a nice, useful site) and screenshots from
www.windowsreinstall.com You're suggesting there should be less
information and less complexity and less steps involved and I've extended
you multiple invitations to show us how a technical writing expert such as
yourself would go about it. Go for it D. Curry--show me. Would you say "go
get some help now--it's complex!" "Put it in your car and find a store you
can trust when you hit them with $150 or so to do it for you"?

I want to see the D. Curry method for a repair install. You seem to
indicate it's in there dying to get out.

10) Lessee. I gotta box and it don't show nothin' up on the screen and when
I have done pushed the button to turn the computer on it still don't show
nothin' on the screen. If I want to use the web, *I'm going to have to find
another device that accesses it.* How much of a revelation is that? I was
the one that offered a way she might get into Windows and fix the problem.
It was reasonable, and if the problem requires a hands on hardware solution,
then I don't have enough information to know whether it will or it won't at
this point.

"Except that she couldn't get into Windows to get to the "run" box. This is
the *only* part of your post that I pointed out was not on point for this
particular user."

If I can't access the run box on this machine, then I'm going to have to
find a machine where I can if I want to. I didn't have the way to send her
the msinfo32 command that would work on her machine. I could only point out
every possible way to find out who made her bios short of going into the
computer and looking.

If she can't get to Windows, she either is able to turn the machine on and
make the monitor work as well or she isn't. I have no idea and neither do
you.

11) *"You seem to be reading a lot into my comments that simply aren't
there"

Nope. I'm telling you expressly and on it's face you and johnf are afraid
to post a solution for her other than to take it for repair or get help.
I'm still waiting to see your Windows software recovery techniques that you
might put into the resource kit or on a site. *That's the one type oif post
I have yet to read with your name on it.* Is it somewhere here I've missed?
*Why are you so reluctant to post it since you have so much aversion to my
solution you thought was complex? Also how did you discern that the poster
was a complete novice or 3 simple sources laid out to do a repair install,
the MSKB, Michael Stevens, and the screenshots would be too hard for Debbie
and her friend to follow?

Do you have a palm reading or Tarrot card service going? How do you know
what's in her head?

Again I'm anxiously awaiting the D. Currie Guide to reinstalling Windows or
Recovering When Safe Mode won't work for novices. I'm sure it's just around
the corner, but we haven't seen it in 3 posts and 18 hours. Hope springs
eternal.

Chad Harris
__________________________________________________ _________


"D.Currie" wrote in message
...

"Chad Harris" wrote in message
...
1) Of course, a high percent of these problems would be a lot easier hands
on. But we don't enjoy that luxury in this setting.

2) I didn't write this. *You* wrote it ( You quoted yourself there).



No, I didn't quote myself, that's the first time I said it. What's your
point?



"The problem with a cut-and-paste post with the complexity of yours is
thatwhile some of it may be completely on target for a given situation,
other
parts won't apply at all, and may confuse the person getting the message
or
convince them that you didn't read their message and can't possibly have
a
useful answer, thus they'll ignore the good advice given"


3) Like most anyone, I cut and paste when I need to put a link or links
into a post or parts of a previous post that I think are appropriate.

4) "For someone who knows what they're doing, changing the bios to boot
from CD or running a repair install of WIndows is not a big effort.For
someone who's in new territory, just getting into the bios and figuring
out how to navigate it can be a daunting task." Most of us have been in
enough teaching and helping situations on the giving or receiving end to
appreciate the empathy here. No one I see posting wasn't a beginner at
some point in their lives or isn't a beginner now in some area of their
learning curves. It may be a big effort, but clear instructions are in
the MSKB or link I give them every single time I mention going into bios
setup. Since I can't be there on the machine, I always have the empathy
to include clear instructions to get to the bios. Instructions navigating
the bios are on the web, and of course many times the person may have the
huge inconvenience of access to only one box and needing to use the
internet by borrowing one from a friend or someone else. That's a given.
I can only give the clearest set of instructions I think will help them
and I try not to camuoflage it in information for other purposes. The
inplace upgrade MSKB, Michael Stevens' instructions and screenshots of an
inplace upgrade are about as clear as it gets to do one.

Also having experienced the boot to windows problem early on as a
beginner, I can compare some of the help in posts I do or see here and
what they are going to get when they call on the phone to MSFT Support
which is not going to be MSFT but Convergys or an OEM help line.
It's not going to mention half the possibilities a high percent of the
time.



I have no idea why you're getting your undies in a knot over this. I just
said that it was a complex answer for someone who isn't very computer saavy.
I didn't say that there was anything wrong with it. Complex is not a value
judgement; it's not good or bad. It's complex, simple, or somewhere in
between. Your answer had a lot of information, a lot of steps involved, a
need to follow links elsewhere and read material that was even more
complicated and technical, therefor I think that it is a little complicated
for someone who isn't used to this type of thing.



5) I can think of dozens of reasons why a computer might not get all the
way
into Windows. Not all of them are software-related. A bad stick of ram,
for
instance, can do some pretty interesting things.

Anyone can think of dozens of hardware related reasons why someone can't
get to Windows. That's right. And some accounts of the problem are a lot
more explicit and specific than the one Debbie who hasn't posted since
offered and can give clues to that. There's probably no one who responds
to a "can't boot to windows problem" that doesn't appreciate every point
your trying to make. We know it can be hardware related. We know they
may only have one box to work with with them that can be dead or not able
to reach the web.

"A bad stick of ram, for instance, can do some pretty interesting things."
Thanks for the earth shaking revelation here. I had no idea a bad stick
or RAM, or a loose stick of ram, or a loose anything made of metal or cord
can do some pretty interesting things.



This is what you said:

"you don't have a wide panopoly of options.
There are actually relatively few simple ones.


....which is what I responded to. Maybe your definition of relatively few is
different than mine.


6) "But it was an extremely complex answer for someone with few computer
skills" I disagree. I think it was an extremely on point answer and the
person with few computer skills may have summoned a friend who could help
execute it. It beat the hell out of ignoring what was a conspicuous plea
for help in upper-case with those little punctuation marks called
explanation points about 35 times.



Fine. You don't think that your answer was complex for someone with few
computer skills. I did. What's the big deal? I never said you were wrong, so
why is this such a big deal?



7) Often in these situations, someone will be working from a friend's
laptop or notebook or PDA to do the post and access the web, so using
Belarc to get info is not out of the question. Many people will remember
what key they have seen a few hundred times to use to get into the bios on
the firmware screen but will not have realized its context when they
stared at it on each boot.
For this reason, using Belarc, Everest Home, SiSoft Sandra, or msinfo 32
in the run box will often apply to help someone get into the bios setup.
Navigating the bios is explained in any number of sites if you google with
those words and have an additional box to google with.



Except that she couldn't get into Windows to get to the "run" box. This is
the *only* part of your post that I pointed out was not on point for this
particular user.



In a perfect world, someone might have that assistance you invoke readily
available but often they don't, can't get it, or can't afford it. That's
one reason they're here.

8) None of my answers are "stock answers." They are tailored to the
problem I see.


I didn't say your answers were. I said there was nothing wrong with stock
answers. A lot of people use them rather than endlessly retyping the same
thing over and over to answer some of the commonly asked questions here.


9) I missed besides critiquing me



Ah, is that was this was about? That I was critiqueing you? I think you
misread it. I was responding originally to your comment that :

"and I have something I can paste to
help the next person, when in a few hours or days from now someone else
can't get into safe mode but can boot from the CD"


I was pointing out that it was a rather complex answer with a lot of
information which may not apply in the next case.


and the plug in the monitor suggestion
what you offered her to help. I don't think anyone who posts doesn't
realize competent hands on help is a good thing to get if they can. Often
the person will summon a lot of help on the group, people will do the best
they can in that format, and rush out after posting the dilemma with the
box, and never look at the group again.

Thanks for the novice posting tips D. Currie. They'd best be directed to
a novice posting forum.



You seem to be reading a lot into my comments that simply aren't there.



I'll continue to try to respond to a request for help when data is at
stake and work with what I'm given. Fortunately, unlike this case the
poster has enough manners when they've put up a plea for help to answer
questions that may make it easier to help them, but about 10% of the time
as in this case, nothing is heard from them after their first frantic
plea.

Best,

Chad Harris


Nice that you're still going to help.


_________________________________

"D.Currie" wrote in message
...

"Chad Harris" wrote in message
...
D. Currie--

I think your suggestion about display and the monitor to Debbie is a very
good one well worth considering. The problem is we're not sure what's
happening on that box and we may never know.



With luck, they've found someone to help, as it's a problem that would be
a
lot easier hands-on.


You wrote:

"The problem with a cut-and-paste post with the complexity of yours is
that
while some of it may be completely on target for a given situation, other
parts won't apply at all, and may confuse the person getting the message
or
convince them that you didn't read their message and can't possibly have
a
useful answer, thus they'll ignore the good advice given."

That's why no cookie cutter cut and pastes are ever launched from me.



I was responding to your comment that you'd have something to paste to
help
the next person. If that's not what you meant, that's the way I read it. I
have no idea if you cut and paste or not, I'm just responding to what you
wrote.


I don't think it's that complex a situation.



No, but it was an extremely complex answer for someone with few computer
skills. I was responding to the complexity of the answer, not on the
complexitiy of the problem. For someone who knows what they're doing,
changing the bios to boot from CD or running a repair install of WIndows
is
not a big effort. For someone who's in new territory, just getting into
the
bios and figuring out how to navigate it can be a daunting task.


When you can't boot to
Windows, and you're dealiing with an NTFS File System or a Win-FS file
system in the next Windows OS, you don't have a wide panopoly of
options. There are actually relatively few simple ones.



I can think of dozens of reasons why a computer might not get all the way
into Windows. Not all of them are software-related. A bad stick of ram,
for
instance, can do some pretty interesting things.


Here though, I agree we just
don't know what the dark screen means. It may well be a monitor problem
or bios triggered problem.

In addition to cutting and pasting, I delete and write the posts and
tailor them to the situation. Mosf of them are on the fly, because I
either can't get to folders with stashed references or it's just faster
for me to nail the article by searching. I tend to want to respond to an
"I can't get to Windows--I'm gonna lose my data and settings
help!!!!!--(I may not have backed up adequately)" type post and I get
about 100% feedback on them and lately that hasn't been the case that
they are convinced I didn't read their message and can't possibly give a
useful answer and will ignore. That's not what the tone of the feedback
has been on the "can't boot to Windows."



You seem to be taking this all a little too seriously and perhaps
misunderstanding what I'm saying. I was merely pointing out that when a
person says they get a black screen "after the first screen" whatever that
might be, and they can't get into Windows any which way, and your response
includes instructions to download and install Belarc so they can figure
out
what their bios is, they may think that you haven't fully read their post.

There's nothing wrong with telling someone about Belarc or suggesting that
it's useful for gathering information, but in this instance, it doesn't
apply.


I figure the reason I learned to write was not to shove cookie cutter
"one size fits all" solutions at people. However, I think everyone who
tries to help on the usenet/groups/forums stashes posts with links they
can borrow so they don't have to go throught the time consuming
painstaking search trying to find the system restore, system file
checker, or recovery console link or KB, when all of us are trying to
help with the demands and pressures of making a living.

Best,

Chad Harris
_________________________________________________



There's certainly nothing wrong with having stock answers available if the
situation applies.


 




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