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#1
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Windows XP startup best practice?
Bear with me as this may get a bit long.
I am working on integrating a Windows XP based application into an aircraft training simulation. The XP computer will only need to run the specific applications needed as part of the training scenario. The plan is that the system will boot, wait for the trainer to signal that the training scenario is ready to run, then execute the application. When the scenario is complete, the application will terminate, and the system will go back to waiting for the next scenario. We want this to be as transparent to the users as possible, all they should see is there GUI interface, when the trainer is running. I also need to be able to shutdown the system on command from the trainer. I have a pretty good idea about the various options for logging in, starting an application automatically, etc. Back in the WindowsNT days, I could set up the system so that if the user terminated the running application, he was automatically logged off, so he never saw the WindowsNT GUI, just the application. My first question is, "Is there a way to make Windows XP behave this way?" My second, more general question is, "Is there some guidance regarding best practice for where you do various things with respect to startup and shutdown?" For instance, you can use the group policy editor to build computer startup and shutdown scripts. You can also define user login and logout scripts. Is there some recommended way of deciding where to do various operations? I am looking for any suggestions regarding making things operate in the simplest and most reliable fashion. thanks, -- jfh |
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#2
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Windows XP startup best practice?
I'm not sure what you mean exactly. Try disabling the "Welcome Screen"
from the "User Accounts" control panel. John Hughes wrote: Bear with me as this may get a bit long. I am working on integrating a Windows XP based application into an aircraft training simulation. The XP computer will only need to run the specific applications needed as part of the training scenario. The plan is that the system will boot, wait for the trainer to signal that the training scenario is ready to run, then execute the application. When the scenario is complete, the application will terminate, and the system will go back to waiting for the next scenario. We want this to be as transparent to the users as possible, all they should see is there GUI interface, when the trainer is running. I also need to be able to shutdown the system on command from the trainer. I have a pretty good idea about the various options for logging in, starting an application automatically, etc. Back in the WindowsNT days, I could set up the system so that if the user terminated the running application, he was automatically logged off, so he never saw the WindowsNT GUI, just the application. My first question is, "Is there a way to make Windows XP behave this way?" My second, more general question is, "Is there some guidance regarding best practice for where you do various things with respect to startup and shutdown?" For instance, you can use the group policy editor to build computer startup and shutdown scripts. You can also define user login and logout scripts. Is there some recommended way of deciding where to do various operations? I am looking for any suggestions regarding making things operate in the simplest and most reliable fashion. thanks, -- jfh |
#3
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Windows XP startup best practice?
I was looking for a lot deeper answer. Turning of the welcome screen is just
the tip of the iceberg. For instance, there is a posting that describes 13 different ways that a program can be started (see Startup in this discussion group). I am trying to figure out what the advantages and disadvantages of those 13 places to start a program might be. I am looking for guidance beyond the obvious (some places start programs on boot, some places start programs on login, etc.). I am also looking for guidance on ways to minimize what the user can do, besides play with the specific program we want him too. I know how to do many of these things, but I am looking for expert help to make sure I don't unintentionally break something, or leave a gapping security hole. Am I on my own? thanks, jfh -- jfh "Jaelani" wrote: I'm not sure what you mean exactly. Try disabling the "Welcome Screen" from the "User Accounts" control panel. John Hughes wrote: Bear with me as this may get a bit long. I am working on integrating a Windows XP based application into an aircraft training simulation. The XP computer will only need to run the specific applications needed as part of the training scenario. The plan is that the system will boot, wait for the trainer to signal that the training scenario is ready to run, then execute the application. When the scenario is complete, the application will terminate, and the system will go back to waiting for the next scenario. We want this to be as transparent to the users as possible, all they should see is there GUI interface, when the trainer is running. I also need to be able to shutdown the system on command from the trainer. I have a pretty good idea about the various options for logging in, starting an application automatically, etc. Back in the WindowsNT days, I could set up the system so that if the user terminated the running application, he was automatically logged off, so he never saw the WindowsNT GUI, just the application. My first question is, "Is there a way to make Windows XP behave this way?" My second, more general question is, "Is there some guidance regarding best practice for where you do various things with respect to startup and shutdown?" For instance, you can use the group policy editor to build computer startup and shutdown scripts. You can also define user login and logout scripts. Is there some recommended way of deciding where to do various operations? I am looking for any suggestions regarding making things operate in the simplest and most reliable fashion. thanks, -- jfh |
#4
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Windows XP startup best practice?
I was looking for a lot deeper answer. Turning of the welcome screen
is just the tip of the iceberg. For instance, there is a posting that describes 13 different ways that a program can be started (see Startup in this discussion group). I am trying to figure out what the advantages and disadvantages of those 13 places to start a program might be. I am looking for guidance beyond the obvious (some places start programs on boot, some places start programs on login, etc.). I am also looking for guidance on ways to minimize what the user can do, besides play with the specific program we want him too. I know how to do many of these things, but I am looking for expert help to make sure I don't unintentionally break something, or leave a gapping security hole. Am I on my own? thanks, You might be unless you can make your questions a lot more specific. That's a complex area and with lots of IFs, caveats and dependencies. And besides that, the "simplest and most reliable fashion" is something that is wide open to interpretation and personal opinions depending on what a person's computer is set up to do (or not do). There just is no one size fits all answer. Your best bet is to pick an area and start studying it. Most any area you pick will lead you to the others and research will be rather easy to broaden as you go along. The Registry is probably one of the more complex but also most all encompassing of the areas for you to start with. Then begin applying it to whatever case you want it to fit. You'll begin to come to some accurate answers for your own situation. You'll also then be able to ask much more specific questions and probably receive much better responses too. One thing you're not apt to get here is anyone who will take you by the hand and instruct you on all the details and nuances of your case. Posters are expected to have done their own prior research before coming to a newsgroup; being able to demonstrate that you've done that will get you some much better answers. You'll find you just can not be spoon fed the answer to such a wide open question. What you've done so far is akin to going to an automotive engineering newsgroup and asking how to build the perfect car without so much as providing the manufacturer, brand or any other details about it. HTH jfh I'm not sure what you mean exactly. Try disabling the "Welcome Screen" from the "User Accounts" control panel. John Hughes wrote: Bear with me as this may get a bit long. I am working on integrating a Windows XP based application into an aircraft training simulation. The XP computer will only need to run the specific applications needed as part of the training scenario. The plan is that the system will boot, wait for the trainer to signal that the training scenario is ready to run, then execute the application. When the scenario is complete, the application will terminate, and the system will go back to waiting for the next scenario. We want this to be as transparent to the users as possible, all they should see is there GUI interface, when the trainer is running. I also need to be able to shutdown the system on command from the trainer. I have a pretty good idea about the various options for logging in, starting an application automatically, etc. Back in the WindowsNT days, I could set up the system so that if the user terminated the running application, he was automatically logged off, so he never saw the WindowsNT GUI, just the application. My first question is, "Is there a way to make Windows XP behave this way?" My second, more general question is, "Is there some guidance regarding best practice for where you do various things with respect to startup and shutdown?" For instance, you can use the group policy editor to build computer startup and shutdown scripts. You can also define user login and logout scripts. Is there some recommended way of deciding where to do various operations? I am looking for any suggestions regarding making things operate in the simplest and most reliable fashion. thanks, -- jfh |
#5
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Windows XP startup best practice?
I was not asking to be spoon fed. I spent several days bouncing around
various documents, web sites, forums, news groups, etc. trying to find something that would point me in the right direction. Mostly what I found was a huge pool of unconnected information. It is often difficult to discern if the informaton you are reading pertains to Vista, to XP, or even to Windows 3.1. I did ask some specific questions. 1. Is there a way to make Windows XP automatically log the user off when he terminates an application that was automatically loaded on logging in? I have found many references to setting up the automatic log in, with more options than I could have ever imagined. So, I can pick one and go with it, but there doesn't appear to be any information about which of the options might be more or less secure, which options are likely to be around in the future, which might go away, etc. 2. My second question was asking for a road map regarding recommended practices for starting up and shutting down applications. I can spend weeks reading through numerous posts about what does and doesn't work, often with no way to tell what expertise the poster has. There are numerous instances where Microsoft has provided guidance regarding recommended ways of doing things. I was looking for a place to start my research. It sounds to me like there are no documented suggestions, so I am forced to pick a direction and hope it doesn't lead to a dead end. I had hoped that someone could help me avoid some known pit falls. Thanks for your input. jfh -- jfh "Twayne" wrote: I was looking for a lot deeper answer. Turning of the welcome screen is just the tip of the iceberg. For instance, there is a posting that describes 13 different ways that a program can be started (see Startup in this discussion group). I am trying to figure out what the advantages and disadvantages of those 13 places to start a program might be. I am looking for guidance beyond the obvious (some places start programs on boot, some places start programs on login, etc.). I am also looking for guidance on ways to minimize what the user can do, besides play with the specific program we want him too. I know how to do many of these things, but I am looking for expert help to make sure I don't unintentionally break something, or leave a gapping security hole. Am I on my own? thanks, You might be unless you can make your questions a lot more specific. That's a complex area and with lots of IFs, caveats and dependencies. And besides that, the "simplest and most reliable fashion" is something that is wide open to interpretation and personal opinions depending on what a person's computer is set up to do (or not do). There just is no one size fits all answer. Your best bet is to pick an area and start studying it. Most any area you pick will lead you to the others and research will be rather easy to broaden as you go along. The Registry is probably one of the more complex but also most all encompassing of the areas for you to start with. Then begin applying it to whatever case you want it to fit. You'll begin to come to some accurate answers for your own situation. You'll also then be able to ask much more specific questions and probably receive much better responses too. One thing you're not apt to get here is anyone who will take you by the hand and instruct you on all the details and nuances of your case. Posters are expected to have done their own prior research before coming to a newsgroup; being able to demonstrate that you've done that will get you some much better answers. You'll find you just can not be spoon fed the answer to such a wide open question. What you've done so far is akin to going to an automotive engineering newsgroup and asking how to build the perfect car without so much as providing the manufacturer, brand or any other details about it. HTH jfh I'm not sure what you mean exactly. Try disabling the "Welcome Screen" from the "User Accounts" control panel. John Hughes wrote: Bear with me as this may get a bit long. I am working on integrating a Windows XP based application into an aircraft training simulation. The XP computer will only need to run the specific applications needed as part of the training scenario. The plan is that the system will boot, wait for the trainer to signal that the training scenario is ready to run, then execute the application. When the scenario is complete, the application will terminate, and the system will go back to waiting for the next scenario. We want this to be as transparent to the users as possible, all they should see is there GUI interface, when the trainer is running. I also need to be able to shutdown the system on command from the trainer. I have a pretty good idea about the various options for logging in, starting an application automatically, etc. Back in the WindowsNT days, I could set up the system so that if the user terminated the running application, he was automatically logged off, so he never saw the WindowsNT GUI, just the application. My first question is, "Is there a way to make Windows XP behave this way?" My second, more general question is, "Is there some guidance regarding best practice for where you do various things with respect to startup and shutdown?" For instance, you can use the group policy editor to build computer startup and shutdown scripts. You can also define user login and logout scripts. Is there some recommended way of deciding where to do various operations? I am looking for any suggestions regarding making things operate in the simplest and most reliable fashion. thanks, -- jfh |
#6
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Windows XP startup best practice?
1. AFAIK, a user can only be automatically logged off by Windows
itself if the shell process is terminated. You will have to use a third party software or a script if you want that to happen for any application you have specified. For me, I would rather use a script which is launched at user login. In turn, that script will launch the needed application and wait until it is terminated. When that happen, the script can logoff the current user. 2. There are many ways to make an application automatically launched at system startup or at user login. Many are stored in the registry and some in configuration files. Almost all available methods can be used with all kind of applications. But there are restrictions such as type of application, dependency with other application, security/ privilege, and timing issues. It would be a bit too long to describe each methods. John Hughes wrote: I was not asking to be spoon fed. I spent several days bouncing around various documents, web sites, forums, news groups, etc. trying to find something that would point me in the right direction. Mostly what I found was a huge pool of unconnected information. It is often difficult to discern if the informaton you are reading pertains to Vista, to XP, or even to Windows 3.1. I did ask some specific questions. 1. Is there a way to make Windows XP automatically log the user off when he terminates an application that was automatically loaded on logging in? I have found many references to setting up the automatic log in, with more options than I could have ever imagined. So, I can pick one and go with it, but there doesn't appear to be any information about which of the options might be more or less secure, which options are likely to be around in the future, which might go away, etc. 2. My second question was asking for a road map regarding recommended practices for starting up and shutting down applications. I can spend weeks reading through numerous posts about what does and doesn't work, often with no way to tell what expertise the poster has. There are numerous instances where Microsoft has provided guidance regarding recommended ways of doing things. I was looking for a place to start my research. It sounds to me like there are no documented suggestions, so I am forced to pick a direction and hope it doesn't lead to a dead end. I had hoped that someone could help me avoid some known pit falls. Thanks for your input. jfh -- jfh |
#7
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Windows XP startup best practice?
1. You suggest a script launced at login, that starts the application(s),
waits for them to terminate, then logs off. I can easily write a .bat file and place it in the users startup folder. If it simply starts the application in line, it will sit there until the application exits. I can then put a logoff comand in the .bat file. Is this what you had in mind? 2. I am aware of at least 13 different places to specify an application or program to be run at system startup or login. You said, "But there are restrictions such as type of application, dependency with other application, security/privilege, and timing issues. It would be a bit too long to describe each methods." Where are these restrictions documented? Where can I go to get details about each of the methods? This is the fundamental problem I am having right how. There are too many choices and I have no information on which to base a decision about which choice to use. I was hoping that I didn't have to try each choice independently and run countless tests on each configuration to determine what was best. I hoped, I could learn from others. Is there no one who knows, or is willing to share this info? -- jfh "Jaelani" wrote: 1. AFAIK, a user can only be automatically logged off by Windows itself if the shell process is terminated. You will have to use a third party software or a script if you want that to happen for any application you have specified. For me, I would rather use a script which is launched at user login. In turn, that script will launch the needed application and wait until it is terminated. When that happen, the script can logoff the current user. 2. There are many ways to make an application automatically launched at system startup or at user login. Many are stored in the registry and some in configuration files. Almost all available methods can be used with all kind of applications. But there are restrictions such as type of application, dependency with other application, security/ privilege, and timing issues. It would be a bit too long to describe each methods. |
#8
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Windows XP startup best practice?
1. Yes, that's exactly what I have in mind. Don't know if Windows
Script (WSC, JS or VBS) is capable of performing this task, but if it does, it can be used to avoid having a console window. 2. None that I know of, sorry. Most websites describes only several methods. In Microsoft website, this information are scattered. Some are in the Knowledge Base and some are in the MSDN Online Library. The least known and hard to find ones are the ones from the Knowledge Base which are usually provided for administrators and programmers in technical manner. Some only contain instructions on how to utilize it without explaining what it actually do, what it requires and what is affects in details. As far as I can see, you want your system to run in so-called "kiosk" mode where your main application starts automatically PRIOR the windows desktop by replacing the shell. However, some Windows components may not yet be available during this stage. You application might need to manually start any required components that are not yet available. John Hughes wrote: 1. You suggest a script launced at login, that starts the application(s), waits for them to terminate, then logs off. I can easily write a .bat file and place it in the users startup folder. If it simply starts the application in line, it will sit there until the application exits. I can then put a logoff comand in the .bat file. Is this what you had in mind? 2. I am aware of at least 13 different places to specify an application or program to be run at system startup or login. You said, "But there are restrictions such as type of application, dependency with other application, security/privilege, and timing issues. It would be a bit too long to describe each methods." Where are these restrictions documented? Where can I go to get details about each of the methods? This is the fundamental problem I am having right how. There are too many choices and I have no information on which to base a decision about which choice to use. I was hoping that I didn't have to try each choice independently and run countless tests on each configuration to determine what was best. I hoped, I could learn from others. Is there no one who knows, or is willing to share this info? -- jfh |
#9
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Windows XP startup best practice?
I currently have a .bat file that I am placing in the users startup folder
which starts the applications correctly. I am having numerous issues with making things work just the way I would like, but the basic concept is working. Thanks for your help with this. The "kiosk" mode is exactly what I am trying to set up. Is there more documentation about how to do this somewhere? Or, is this another example of things that will have to be mined out of the extensive online resources? Again, I thank you for your help. -- jfh "Jaelani" wrote: 1. Yes, that's exactly what I have in mind. Don't know if Windows Script (WSC, JS or VBS) is capable of performing this task, but if it does, it can be used to avoid having a console window. 2. None that I know of, sorry. Most websites describes only several methods. In Microsoft website, this information are scattered. Some are in the Knowledge Base and some are in the MSDN Online Library. The least known and hard to find ones are the ones from the Knowledge Base which are usually provided for administrators and programmers in technical manner. Some only contain instructions on how to utilize it without explaining what it actually do, what it requires and what is affects in details. As far as I can see, you want your system to run in so-called "kiosk" mode where your main application starts automatically PRIOR the windows desktop by replacing the shell. However, some Windows components may not yet be available during this stage. You application might need to manually start any required components that are not yet available. John Hughes wrote: 1. You suggest a script launced at login, that starts the application(s), waits for them to terminate, then logs off. I can easily write a .bat file and place it in the users startup folder. If it simply starts the application in line, it will sit there until the application exits. I can then put a logoff comand in the .bat file. Is this what you had in mind? 2. I am aware of at least 13 different places to specify an application or program to be run at system startup or login. You said, "But there are restrictions such as type of application, dependency with other application, security/privilege, and timing issues. It would be a bit too long to describe each methods." Where are these restrictions documented? Where can I go to get details about each of the methods? This is the fundamental problem I am having right how. There are too many choices and I have no information on which to base a decision about which choice to use. I was hoping that I didn't have to try each choice independently and run countless tests on each configuration to determine what was best. I hoped, I could learn from others. Is there no one who knows, or is willing to share this info? -- jfh |
#10
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Windows XP startup best practice?
You can do a search on the Microsoft website using this keywords:
shell AND explorer.exe AND winlogon Take a look at the one titled "Shell Entry: Core Services". The default shell is EXPLORER.EXE, which is the desktop. In other word, in kiosk mode, the EXPLORER.EXE desktop is the kiosk application. You just need to replace it with your application or your application manager. The search result should be relevant to the shell, all the bits and pieces. You will need to use the registry and NOT the one in the SYSTEM.INI file. Also, as you already have known, the welcome screen should be disabled, since it will interfere with the whole screen display. The welcome screen AFAIK, will show its "welcome" screen to block user inputs in order to let the USERINIT.EXE process to finish. The USERINIT.EXE performs all the necesarry user profile initializations, so it's best to let it finish prior launching the main application. Your application manager (the shell) should perform this task. Frankly, I don't know the details about what would happen if we don't wait USERINIT.EXE finishes it job and launch the main application right away. Although in my experience, nothing bad happened since I myself don't use the welcome screen and all of the startup applications are launched without waiting USERINIT.EXE to finish its job. Since the desktop is gone, don't expect support for tray icons nor tray notifications including any other things that depend on the desktop features. HTH. John Hughes wrote: I currently have a .bat file that I am placing in the users startup folder which starts the applications correctly. I am having numerous issues with making things work just the way I would like, but the basic concept is working. Thanks for your help with this. The "kiosk" mode is exactly what I am trying to set up. Is there more documentation about how to do this somewhere? Or, is this another example of things that will have to be mined out of the extensive online resources? Again, I thank you for your help. -- jfh "Jaelani" wrote: 1. Yes, that's exactly what I have in mind. Don't know if Windows Script (WSC, JS or VBS) is capable of performing this task, but if it does, it can be used to avoid having a console window. 2. None that I know of, sorry. Most websites describes only several methods. In Microsoft website, this information are scattered. Some are in the Knowledge Base and some are in the MSDN Online Library. The least known and hard to find ones are the ones from the Knowledge Base which are usually provided for administrators and programmers in technical manner. Some only contain instructions on how to utilize it without explaining what it actually do, what it requires and what is affects in details. As far as I can see, you want your system to run in so-called "kiosk" mode where your main application starts automatically PRIOR the windows desktop by replacing the shell. However, some Windows components may not yet be available during this stage. You application might need to manually start any required components that are not yet available. John Hughes wrote: 1. You suggest a script launced at login, that starts the application(s), waits for them to terminate, then logs off. I can easily write a .bat file and place it in the users startup folder. If it simply starts the application in line, it will sit there until the application exits. I can then put a logoff comand in the .bat file. Is this what you had in mind? 2. I am aware of at least 13 different places to specify an application or program to be run at system startup or login. You said, "But there are restrictions such as type of application, dependency with other application, security/privilege, and timing issues. It would be a bit too long to describe each methods." Where are these restrictions documented? Where can I go to get details about each of the methods? This is the fundamental problem I am having right how. There are too many choices and I have no information on which to base a decision about which choice to use. I was hoping that I didn't have to try each choice independently and run countless tests on each configuration to determine what was best. I hoped, I could learn from others. Is there no one who knows, or is willing to share this info? -- jfh |
#11
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Windows XP startup best practice?
You can do a search on the Microsoft website using this keywords:
shell AND explorer.exe AND winlogon Take a look at the one titled "Shell Entry: Core Services". The default shell is EXPLORER.EXE, which is the desktop. In other word, in kiosk mode, the EXPLORER.EXE desktop is the kiosk application. You just need to replace it with your application or your application manager. The search result should be relevant to the shell, all the bits and pieces. You will need to use the registry and NOT the one in the SYSTEM.INI file. Also, as you already have known, the welcome screen should be disabled, since it will interfere with the whole screen display. The welcome screen AFAIK, will show its "welcome" screen to block user inputs in order to let the USERINIT.EXE process to finish. The USERINIT.EXE performs all the necesarry user profile initializations, so it's best to let it finish prior launching the main application. Your application manager (the shell) should perform this task. Frankly, I don't know the details about what would happen if we don't wait USERINIT.EXE finishes it job and launch the main application right away. Although in my experience, nothing bad happened since I myself don't use the welcome screen and all of the startup applications are launched without waiting USERINIT.EXE to finish its job. Since the desktop is gone, don't expect support for tray icons nor tray notifications including any other things that depend on the desktop features. HTH. John Hughes wrote: I currently have a .bat file that I am placing in the users startup folder which starts the applications correctly. I am having numerous issues with making things work just the way I would like, but the basic concept is working. Thanks for your help with this. The "kiosk" mode is exactly what I am trying to set up. Is there more documentation about how to do this somewhere? Or, is this another example of things that will have to be mined out of the extensive online resources? Again, I thank you for your help. -- jfh "Jaelani" wrote: 1. Yes, that's exactly what I have in mind. Don't know if Windows Script (WSC, JS or VBS) is capable of performing this task, but if it does, it can be used to avoid having a console window. 2. None that I know of, sorry. Most websites describes only several methods. In Microsoft website, this information are scattered. Some are in the Knowledge Base and some are in the MSDN Online Library. The least known and hard to find ones are the ones from the Knowledge Base which are usually provided for administrators and programmers in technical manner. Some only contain instructions on how to utilize it without explaining what it actually do, what it requires and what is affects in details. As far as I can see, you want your system to run in so-called "kiosk" mode where your main application starts automatically PRIOR the windows desktop by replacing the shell. However, some Windows components may not yet be available during this stage. You application might need to manually start any required components that are not yet available. John Hughes wrote: 1. You suggest a script launced at login, that starts the application(s), waits for them to terminate, then logs off. I can easily write a .bat file and place it in the users startup folder. If it simply starts the application in line, it will sit there until the application exits. I can then put a logoff comand in the .bat file. Is this what you had in mind? 2. I am aware of at least 13 different places to specify an application or program to be run at system startup or login. You said, "But there are restrictions such as type of application, dependency with other application, security/privilege, and timing issues. It would be a bit too long to describe each methods." Where are these restrictions documented? Where can I go to get details about each of the methods? This is the fundamental problem I am having right how. There are too many choices and I have no information on which to base a decision about which choice to use. I was hoping that I didn't have to try each choice independently and run countless tests on each configuration to determine what was best. I hoped, I could learn from others. Is there no one who knows, or is willing to share this info? -- jfh |
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