Windows 10 will soon run Edge in a virtual machine to keep you safe

If you can't build a leak proof submarine, you might as well enclose it inside a sort-of leak proof container.
Hard to get in and out of the sub and it would be difficult to navigate, but at least you are dry.

Since no one has yet built a completely secure browser, I suppose this isn't a bad idea.

Windows 10 will soon run Edge in a virtual machine to keep you safe

http://arstechnica.com/information-t...keep-you-safe/

Stormin' Norman wrote:
If you can't build a leak proof submarine, you might as well enclose it inside a sort-of leak proof container.
Hard to get in and out of the sub and it would be difficult to navigate, but at least you are dry.

Since no one has yet built a completely secure browser, I suppose this isn't a bad idea.

Windows 10 will soon run Edge in a virtual machine to keep you safe

http://arstechnica.com/information-t...keep-you-safe/

Non-starter.

"There are also compatibility constraints. VBS installs
the Hyper-V hypervisor. This requires a processor with hardware
virtualization support, and it also requires I/O virtualization
(such as Intel's VT-d) to protect against certain known attacks.
This means that some systems in the wild won't support it. There
are also software concerns; only one hypervisor can be installed
at a time, which means that a machine that's running Hyper-V
cannot also run VMware Workstation or Virtual Box, say, or software
that uses virtualization behind the scenes, such as the Bluestacks
Android-on-Windows software."

To run Hyper-V here, I'm expected to have a processor with SLAT/EPT
(Extended Page Tables). I only have one processor with that feature.
My E8400 I'm typing on ( which would be a candidate for Windows 10 ),
doesn't have SLAT/EPT. So my Edge would run without a software condom.

And seeing as VM technology already has proof-of-concept
attacks, I don't see this as a big win anyway. For example,
the software I've tested in VMs, some of it comes right
out and says "we're in a VM - this product is not
licensed for operation in a VM". So the emulated environment
isn't exactly a well kept secret. An exploit entering the
browser, will rapidly be able to figure out there is a
software condom in place.

Paul

On Mon, 26 Sep 2016 19:59:34 -0600, Ken1943 wrote:

Windows 10 will soon run Edge in a virtual machine to keep you safe

http://arstechnica.com/information-t...keep-you-safe/

They can run it in a garbage can for protection. That does not make it
a good browser. It stinks !


LOL! I agree.

On 27/09/16 07:45, Stormin' Norman wrote:
If you can't build a leak proof submarine, you might as well enclose it inside a sort-of leak proof container.
Hard to get in and out of the sub and it would be difficult to navigate, but at least you are dry.

It would be great if that "virtual machine" could be used to run all
other commands, applications and games... very much like chroot jail in
Linux.

--
@~@ Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch! Live long and prosper!!
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty!
/( _ )\ May the Force and farces be with you!
^ ^ (x86_64 Ubuntu 9.10) Linux 2.6.39.3
�借貸! ��騙! ��交! �打交! �打劫! �自殺! 請考慮綜� (CSSA):
http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_...sub_addressesa

In article ,
lid, Stormin' Norman says...

If you can't build a leak proof submarine, you might as well enclose it inside a sort-of leak proof container.
Hard to get in and out of the sub and it would be difficult to navigate, but at least you are dry.

Since no one has yet built a completely secure browser, I suppose this isn't a bad idea.

Windows 10 will soon run Edge in a virtual machine to keep you safe

http://arstechnica.com/information-t...keep-you-safe/

But it *still* can't save and open multiple tabs. Currently useless to
me.

--
Duncan.

On 9/26/2016 8:02 PM, Paul wrote:
Stormin' Norman wrote:
If you can't build a leak proof submarine, you might as well enclose
it inside a sort-of leak proof container.
Hard to get in and out of the sub and it would be difficult to
navigate, but at least you are dry.

Since no one has yet built a completely secure browser, I suppose this
isn't a bad idea.

Windows 10 will soon run Edge in a virtual machine to keep you safe

http://arstechnica.com/information-t...keep-you-safe/


Non-starter.

"There are also compatibility constraints. VBS installs
the Hyper-V hypervisor. This requires a processor with hardware
virtualization support, and it also requires I/O virtualization
(such as Intel's VT-d) to protect against certain known attacks.
This means that some systems in the wild won't support it. There
are also software concerns; only one hypervisor can be installed
at a time, which means that a machine that's running Hyper-V
cannot also run VMware Workstation or Virtual Box, say, or software
that uses virtualization behind the scenes, such as the Bluestacks
Android-on-Windows software."

To run Hyper-V here, I'm expected to have a processor with SLAT/EPT
(Extended Page Tables). I only have one processor with that feature.
My E8400 I'm typing on ( which would be a candidate for Windows 10 ),
doesn't have SLAT/EPT. So my Edge would run without a software condom.

And seeing as VM technology already has proof-of-concept
attacks, I don't see this as a big win anyway. For example,
the software I've tested in VMs, some of it comes right
out and says "we're in a VM - this product is not
licensed for operation in a VM". So the emulated environment
isn't exactly a well kept secret. An exploit entering the
browser, will rapidly be able to figure out there is a
software condom in place.

Paul
Thanks for such a thorough explanation of this example of
yet-another-poorly-thought-out "feature". Why didn't it occur to those
folks that a VM with no I/O would be pretty useless, which is why they
are exploitable? Their effort should be instead directed at making Edge
more useful than IE6, because it has a ways to go.

--
Best regards,

Neil

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Hash: SHA256

On 2016-09-26 9:59 PM, Ken1943 wrote:
On Mon, 26 Sep 2016 23:45:54 +0000, Stormin' Norman
wrote:

If you can't build a leak proof submarine, you might as well
enclose it inside a sort-of leak proof container. Hard to get in
and out of the sub and it would be difficult to navigate, but at
least you are dry.

Since no one has yet built a completely secure browser, I suppose
this isn't a bad idea.

Windows 10 will soon run Edge in a virtual machine to keep you
safe

http://arstechnica.com/information-t...indows-10-will
- -soon-run-edge-in-a-virtual-machine-to-keep-you-safe/


They can run it in a garbage can for protection. That does not make
it a good browser. It stinks !

Agreed. It's only good if you feel that web sites deserve to be
compensated for their content and you therefore want to be sure to see
all of the ads they bundle. That's commendable, except that the ads
often end up delivering malware in addition to trying to sell products
making it necessary to block them.

- --
Silver Slimer
Islam is a disease
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On Mon, 26 Sep 2016 19:59:34 -0600, Ken1943 wrote:

On Mon, 26 Sep 2016 23:45:54 +0000, Stormin' Norman
wrote:

If you can't build a leak proof submarine, you might as well enclose it inside a sort-of leak proof container.
Hard to get in and out of the sub and it would be difficult to navigate, but at least you are dry.

Since no one has yet built a completely secure browser, I suppose this isn't a bad idea.

Windows 10 will soon run Edge in a virtual machine to keep you safe

http://arstechnica.com/information-t...keep-you-safe/

They can run it in a garbage can for protection. That does not make it
a good browser. It stinks !


The Edge browser is certainly on par with the operating system. It will be amusing to sit back and watch as
Microsoft tries to polish the Windows 10 turd.

On 9/27/2016 9:00 AM, Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Mon, 26 Sep 2016 19:59:34 -0600, Ken1943 wrote:

On Mon, 26 Sep 2016 23:45:54 +0000, Stormin' Norman
wrote:

If you can't build a leak proof submarine, you might as well enclose it inside a sort-of leak proof container.
Hard to get in and out of the sub and it would be difficult to navigate, but at least you are dry.

Since no one has yet built a completely secure browser, I suppose this isn't a bad idea.

Windows 10 will soon run Edge in a virtual machine to keep you safe

http://arstechnica.com/information-t...keep-you-safe/

They can run it in a garbage can for protection. That does not make it
a good browser. It stinks !


The Edge browser is certainly on par with the operating system. It will be amusing to sit back and watch as
Microsoft tries to polish the Windows 10 turd.

Fascinating. For quite some time, I thought we were of differing
opinions about Windows 10. ;-)

--
Best regards,

Neil

On Tue, 27 Sep 2016 12:01:00 -0400, Neil wrote:

On 9/27/2016 9:00 AM, Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Mon, 26 Sep 2016 19:59:34 -0600, Ken1943 wrote:

On Mon, 26 Sep 2016 23:45:54 +0000, Stormin' Norman
wrote:

If you can't build a leak proof submarine, you might as well enclose it inside a sort-of leak proof container.
Hard to get in and out of the sub and it would be difficult to navigate, but at least you are dry.

Since no one has yet built a completely secure browser, I suppose this isn't a bad idea.

Windows 10 will soon run Edge in a virtual machine to keep you safe

http://arstechnica.com/information-t...keep-you-safe/

They can run it in a garbage can for protection. That does not make it
a good browser. It stinks !


The Edge browser is certainly on par with the operating system. It will be amusing to sit back and watch as
Microsoft tries to polish the Windows 10 turd.

Fascinating. For quite some time, I thought we were of differing
opinions about Windows 10. ;-)

You must be confusing me with someone else, I have not published a single positive word about W10 since it was
first released. Microsoft completely alienated my business when they pulled their W10 rollout bull**** in the
earlier versions of Windows.

I wonder if they have lost sight of the US market by allowing the hive mentality of some non USA cultures to
permeate the leadership of the company? I for one am far too individualistic to tolerate any company forcing
down my throat, their concept of what they think is best.

On 27/09/2016 01:02, Paul wrote:
Stormin' Norman wrote:
If you can't build a leak proof submarine, you might as well enclose
it inside a sort-of leak proof container.
Hard to get in and out of the sub and it would be difficult to
navigate, but at least you are dry.

Since no one has yet built a completely secure browser, I suppose this
isn't a bad idea.

Windows 10 will soon run Edge in a virtual machine to keep you safe

http://arstechnica.com/information-t...keep-you-safe/


Non-starter.

"There are also compatibility constraints. VBS installs
the Hyper-V hypervisor. This requires a processor with hardware
virtualization support, and it also requires I/O virtualization
(such as Intel's VT-d) to protect against certain known attacks.
This means that some systems in the wild won't support it. There
are also software concerns; only one hypervisor can be installed
at a time, which means that a machine that's running Hyper-V
cannot also run VMware Workstation or Virtual Box, say, or software
that uses virtualization behind the scenes, such as the Bluestacks
Android-on-Windows software."

To run Hyper-V here, I'm expected to have a processor with SLAT/EPT
(Extended Page Tables). I only have one processor with that feature.
My E8400 I'm typing on ( which would be a candidate for Windows 10 ),
doesn't have SLAT/EPT. So my Edge would run without a software condom.

And seeing as VM technology already has proof-of-concept
attacks, I don't see this as a big win anyway. For example,
the software I've tested in VMs, some of it comes right
out and says "we're in a VM - this product is not
licensed for operation in a VM". So the emulated environment
isn't exactly a well kept secret. An exploit entering the
browser, will rapidly be able to figure out there is a
software condom in place.

Paul

By the same reasoning firewalls and anti-virus are non-starters, or
indeed ANY security feature.

You're right, we HAVE to give up computers altogether.

--

Brian Gregory (in the UK).
To email me please remove all the letter vee from my email address.

On 9/27/2016 7:17 AM, Neil wrote:
Thanks for such a thorough explanation of this example of
yet-another-poorly-thought-out "feature". Why didn't it occur to those
folks that a VM with no I/O would be pretty useless, which is why they
are exploitable? Their effort should be instead directed at making Edge
more useful than IE6, because it has a ways to go.

Not entirely, the number of people using their own VM is pretty few and
far between. It's not a bad assumption that they could install their own
VM just to run a browser.

Personally I'm not that interested in browser security. I want browser
convenience. Being able to copy and paste things, upload and download
files as conveniently possible. If this VM doesn't interfere with that,
then I got no problem with it.

Yousuf Khan