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Microsoft Rumors Say Big Changes Coming in Windows 8.2



 
 
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  #46  
Old December 6th 13, 03:53 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
generic name
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 105
Default Microsoft Rumors Say Big Changes Coming in Windows 8.2

On 2013-12-05, Juan Wei wrote:
Jim has written on 12/4/2013 11:40 PM:
On Wed, 04 Dec 2013 19:22:32 -0700, Ken Springer
wrote:

Winston and xfile,

This link was posted in a Mozilla newsgroup:
http://www.theage.com.au/digital-lif...203-2yo3r.html

I have no idea if the site is reliable, but the date for the page is
12/3/13.


I for one have no trouble at all with Windows 8.1. The way I have it
set up it isn't much different than Windows 7. I don't use the Metro
stuff so I uninstalled all the apps, also I have Start8 and boot
directly to the desktop. I could probably get by without Start8 and
still do fine with Windows 8.1. I am amused when I see the posts from
people who are downgrading to Windows. A few tweaks makes Win 8.1 the
same as Win 7 so why downgrade?

I really don't understand why this OS is disliked by so many people.
IMHO, Windows 8.1 is equal or better than Windows 7.


Amen.


The msft drivers for usb3 are scr$ed up. msft coopted having msft
usb3 drivers as part of the win8.x so that mfg are not providing
any usb3 drivers for their hardware.

E.g. the 1st time I had win8 on the desktop, win8 kept interfering
with mass copying using either robocopy or richcopy; the files were
audio files & the copying wasn't successful as autoplay stopped all
processing even when autoplay was set to be disabled for ALL drives.
Then win8 started to claim that the usb3 hdd had to be "initialized"
before it can be used even tho about 700+ gb were on the drive.

After reverting to win7, I did more backups from my nas to the usb3
hdd. However, when 8.1 became available, I stupidly thought m$
fixed the usb3 problems that have been reported. A ms person just
claimed that the drivers are "perfect", it is just the hardware mfg
doing an incorrect implementation (sounds like jobs & apple). When
I needed to do some more backups, win8.1 wanted to "initialize"
the usb3 hdd even tho it had been reformatted by win7 since it was
claimed by some that the ntfs had been changed some.

Anyway, back to win7 which does work unlike win8.x; don't even
think I will try win8.2 if it appears in 2014. I have no intention of
buying another usb3 hdd just for win8.x.
Ads
  #47  
Old December 6th 13, 05:12 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Paul
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18,275
Default Microsoft Rumors Say Big Changes Coming in Windows 8.2

generic name wrote:
On 2013-12-05, Juan Wei wrote:
Jim has written on 12/4/2013 11:40 PM:
On Wed, 04 Dec 2013 19:22:32 -0700, Ken Springer
wrote:

Winston and xfile,

This link was posted in a Mozilla newsgroup:
http://www.theage.com.au/digital-lif...203-2yo3r.html

I have no idea if the site is reliable, but the date for the page is
12/3/13.
I for one have no trouble at all with Windows 8.1. The way I have it
set up it isn't much different than Windows 7. I don't use the Metro
stuff so I uninstalled all the apps, also I have Start8 and boot
directly to the desktop. I could probably get by without Start8 and
still do fine with Windows 8.1. I am amused when I see the posts from
people who are downgrading to Windows. A few tweaks makes Win 8.1 the
same as Win 7 so why downgrade?

I really don't understand why this OS is disliked by so many people.
IMHO, Windows 8.1 is equal or better than Windows 7.

Amen.


The msft drivers for usb3 are scr$ed up. msft coopted having msft
usb3 drivers as part of the win8.x so that mfg are not providing
any usb3 drivers for their hardware.

E.g. the 1st time I had win8 on the desktop, win8 kept interfering
with mass copying using either robocopy or richcopy; the files were
audio files & the copying wasn't successful as autoplay stopped all
processing even when autoplay was set to be disabled for ALL drives.
Then win8 started to claim that the usb3 hdd had to be "initialized"
before it can be used even tho about 700+ gb were on the drive.

After reverting to win7, I did more backups from my nas to the usb3
hdd. However, when 8.1 became available, I stupidly thought m$
fixed the usb3 problems that have been reported. A ms person just
claimed that the drivers are "perfect", it is just the hardware mfg
doing an incorrect implementation (sounds like jobs & apple). When
I needed to do some more backups, win8.1 wanted to "initialize"
the usb3 hdd even tho it had been reformatted by win7 since it was
claimed by some that the ntfs had been changed some.

Anyway, back to win7 which does work unlike win8.x; don't even
think I will try win8.2 if it appears in 2014. I have no intention of
buying another usb3 hdd just for win8.x.


I think there are a few test cases you could run,
for your own peace of mind.

What bothers me a tiny bit about your symptoms, is
the "desire to initialize". It means the disk is being
detected each time, implying communications is not
completely broken. Maybe the "initialize" is the
procedure Disk Management does when a blank drive is
seen ? Like, the MBR is all zeros, and the OS wants
to put a serial number on the drive. That suggests
it attempted to read the disk, and somehow got back
a sector of zeros. Or it got a sector, where the 0xAA55
at the end was missing (for Sector 0 MBR).

The Robocopy mis-behaving, that could be packet errors
on the USB3 cable. Maybe that would be enough to cause
a transfer to fail. Usually, Robocopy users set the
retry counter on the command line, so Robocopy is
running in a kind of "robust" mode where if the
hardware is occasionally flaky, it'll retry. And that
would mean the communications is quite flaky, as
multiple errors are happening in a row.

Since you have 700GB on the drive, I would be concerned
about losing that. If that is your only copy. I'd transfer
that off to another drive, then use the drive itself for
testing.

I'd try a FAT32 partition, as the OS is less likely to
go "version crazy" about FAT32.

Another test case, would be to pull the drive from the
USB3 enclosure, and cable it up inside the computer. Then
try some of the test cases again. If the drive tries
to "initialize" again, that means it's less likely to be
a USB3 problem, and it's something else.

I would not be surprised if the Microsoft USB3 driver
was less than perfect. While it's fun to pretend all
USB3 hosts are "register perfect", when Microsoft
gathers up all the drivers from Etron, Asmedia, NEC
and so on, Microsoft would have to include all "quirks"
incorporated in the other drivers. If Etron knew that
some register needed 20uS to "settle", their code
would need to be commented, and then Microsoft would
add a "quirk" to their code, to add some settling time
if an Etron chip is the target. It wouldn't serve
any purpose, to just write a generic driver against
an "ideal" register set, and break all the
less-than-perfect host controllers out there.

Paul
  #48  
Old December 6th 13, 09:35 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Juan Wei
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 553
Default Microsoft Rumors Say Big Changes Coming in Windows 8.2

xfile has written on 12/5/2013 9:27 PM:
How about 5 minutes and ZERO dollars?

OK, add in the time to down load and install Chrome, Irfanview and VLC.

And -- although I don't a list at my fingertips -- there are aspects of
8 that are improvements over 7.


Hi Juan Wei,

I am not exactly a frequent visitor to this newsgroup, but your name
isn't a new one to me.

You pretty much excluded all the time you spent on this newsgroup (and
perhaps other places), and of course, over years.


You misinterpret what I said. To clarify, a person who wants to make 8
look like 7 can implement the changes in 5-10 minutes.
  #49  
Old December 6th 13, 10:11 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
xfile[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 101
Default Microsoft Rumors Say Big Changes Coming in Windows 8.2

You misinterpret what I said. To clarify, a person who wants to make 8
look like 7 can implement the changes in 5-10 minutes.


I didn't. That knowledge, just like any other knowledge, is not born
with and require time and efforts to know.

We just conveniently forget the learning process part.



  #50  
Old December 6th 13, 12:20 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Alias[_52_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 162
Default Microsoft Rumors Say Big Changes Coming in Windows 8.2

On 12/6/2013 9:35 AM, Juan Wei wrote:
xfile has written on 12/5/2013 9:27 PM:
How about 5 minutes and ZERO dollars?

OK, add in the time to down load and install Chrome, Irfanview and VLC.

And -- although I don't a list at my fingertips -- there are aspects of
8 that are improvements over 7.


Hi Juan Wei,

I am not exactly a frequent visitor to this newsgroup, but your name
isn't a new one to me.

You pretty much excluded all the time you spent on this newsgroup (and
perhaps other places), and of course, over years.


You misinterpret what I said. To clarify, a person who wants to make 8
look like 7 can implement the changes in 5-10 minutes.


And boot to the desktop? If you want Windows 7, why buy Window 8?

--
Alias
  #51  
Old December 6th 13, 03:08 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
(PeteCresswell)
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,933
Default Microsoft Rumors Say Big Changes Coming in Windows 8.2

Per Jim:
I really don't understand why this OS is disliked by so many people.
IMHO, Windows 8.1 is equal or better than Windows 7.


For me, it's Microsoft's moving the furniture around - again... for no
apparent functional reason.

For the corporations I used to serve, I'd imagine it's the cost and lost
time involved teaching 10,000 - 20,000 employees the new furniture
locations.
--
Pete Cresswell
  #52  
Old December 6th 13, 06:07 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
generic name
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 105
Default Microsoft Rumors Say Big Changes Coming in Windows 8.2

On 2013-12-06, Paul wrote:
generic name wrote:
On 2013-12-05, Juan Wei wrote:
Jim has written on 12/4/2013 11:40 PM:
On Wed, 04 Dec 2013 19:22:32 -0700, Ken Springer
wrote:

Winston and xfile,

This link was posted in a Mozilla newsgroup:
http://www.theage.com.au/digital-lif...203-2yo3r.html

I have no idea if the site is reliable, but the date for the page is
12/3/13.
I for one have no trouble at all with Windows 8.1. The way I have it
set up it isn't much different than Windows 7. I don't use the Metro
stuff so I uninstalled all the apps, also I have Start8 and boot
directly to the desktop. I could probably get by without Start8 and
still do fine with Windows 8.1. I am amused when I see the posts from
people who are downgrading to Windows. A few tweaks makes Win 8.1 the
same as Win 7 so why downgrade?

I really don't understand why this OS is disliked by so many people.
IMHO, Windows 8.1 is equal or better than Windows 7.
Amen.


The msft drivers for usb3 are scr$ed up. msft coopted having msft
usb3 drivers as part of the win8.x so that mfg are not providing
any usb3 drivers for their hardware.

E.g. the 1st time I had win8 on the desktop, win8 kept interfering
with mass copying using either robocopy or richcopy; the files were
audio files & the copying wasn't successful as autoplay stopped all
processing even when autoplay was set to be disabled for ALL drives.
Then win8 started to claim that the usb3 hdd had to be "initialized"
before it can be used even tho about 700+ gb were on the drive.

After reverting to win7, I did more backups from my nas to the usb3
hdd. However, when 8.1 became available, I stupidly thought m$
fixed the usb3 problems that have been reported. A ms person just
claimed that the drivers are "perfect", it is just the hardware mfg
doing an incorrect implementation (sounds like jobs & apple). When
I needed to do some more backups, win8.1 wanted to "initialize"
the usb3 hdd even tho it had been reformatted by win7 since it was
claimed by some that the ntfs had been changed some.

Anyway, back to win7 which does work unlike win8.x; don't even
think I will try win8.2 if it appears in 2014. I have no intention of
buying another usb3 hdd just for win8.x.


I think there are a few test cases you could run,
for your own peace of mind.

What bothers me a tiny bit about your symptoms, is
the "desire to initialize". It means the disk is being
detected each time, implying communications is not
completely broken. Maybe the "initialize" is the
procedure Disk Management does when a blank drive is
seen ? Like, the MBR is all zeros, and the OS wants
to put a serial number on the drive. That suggests
it attempted to read the disk, and somehow got back
a sector of zeros. Or it got a sector, where the 0xAA55
at the end was missing (for Sector 0 MBR).

The Robocopy mis-behaving, that could be packet errors
on the USB3 cable. Maybe that would be enough to cause
a transfer to fail. Usually, Robocopy users set the
retry counter on the command line, so Robocopy is
running in a kind of "robust" mode where if the
hardware is occasionally flaky, it'll retry. And that
would mean the communications is quite flaky, as
multiple errors are happening in a row.

Since you have 700GB on the drive, I would be concerned
about losing that. If that is your only copy. I'd transfer
that off to another drive, then use the drive itself for
testing.

I'd try a FAT32 partition, as the OS is less likely to
go "version crazy" about FAT32.

Another test case, would be to pull the drive from the
USB3 enclosure, and cable it up inside the computer. Then
try some of the test cases again. If the drive tries
to "initialize" again, that means it's less likely to be
a USB3 problem, and it's something else.

I would not be surprised if the Microsoft USB3 driver
was less than perfect. While it's fun to pretend all
USB3 hosts are "register perfect", when Microsoft
gathers up all the drivers from Etron, Asmedia, NEC
and so on, Microsoft would have to include all "quirks"
incorporated in the other drivers. If Etron knew that
some register needed 20uS to "settle", their code
would need to be commented, and then Microsoft would
add a "quirk" to their code, to add some settling time
if an Etron chip is the target. It wouldn't serve
any purpose, to just write a generic driver against
an "ideal" register set, and break all the
less-than-perfect host controllers out there.

Paul


There is slightly over 1 TB on the drive now; done under win7.

The "error" msgs were that robocopy/richcopy/xcopy "could not find
the path for ......." in the report log; sometimes the msgs occurred
because autoplay popped up & stops the copying & accounts for
error msgs claiming that the "drive is not ready" or accessible.

The main thing is why would win7 with the mfg's usb3 driver work
without any problems & win8.x has all kinds of problems? The usb3
hdd IS MY BACKUP of the nas drive even if it didn't start that way
before I bought the WD's MyBookLive nas.

Thinking win8.x may be correct & that the claims I had a bad hdd
& cable, I reformatted the drive after I went back to win7 the 1st
time then copied the files from the nas to the usb3 hdd without
any problems. At this point I copied nearly 900 gb successfully
under win7.

When I installed win8 again then updated to win8.1 the attempt to copy
merely 4 CD albums onto the usb3 hdd, the errors returned!

So bit the bullet again & returned to win7 & all is well.
  #53  
Old December 6th 13, 08:50 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Juan Wei
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 553
Default Microsoft Rumors Say Big Changes Coming in Windows 8.2

xfile has written on 12/6/2013 4:11 AM:
You misinterpret what I said. To clarify, a person who wants to make 8
look like 7 can implement the changes in 5-10 minutes.


I didn't. That knowledge, just like any other knowledge, is not born
with and require time and efforts to know.

We just conveniently forget the learning process part.


Well, these days, a person can just google "banish metro" and get
instant knowledge. :-)
  #54  
Old December 6th 13, 10:54 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Ken Springer[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,817
Default Microsoft Rumors Say Big Changes Coming in Windows 8.2

On 12/6/13 12:50 PM, Juan Wei wrote:
xfile has written on 12/6/2013 4:11 AM:
You misinterpret what I said. To clarify, a person who wants to make 8
look like 7 can implement the changes in 5-10 minutes.


I didn't. That knowledge, just like any other knowledge, is not born
with and require time and efforts to know.

We just conveniently forget the learning process part.


Well, these days, a person can just google "banish metro" and get
instant knowledge. :-)


I think you missed xfile's point. Most people aren't even going to have
a clue you can do something like that, so they aren't going to look for
an option.


--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 24.0
Thunderbird 17.0.8
  #55  
Old December 7th 13, 02:41 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
xfile[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 101
Default Microsoft Rumors Say Big Changes Coming in Windows 8.2

On 12/7/2013 05:54, Ken Springer wrote:
On 12/6/13 12:50 PM, Juan Wei wrote:
xfile has written on 12/6/2013 4:11 AM:
You misinterpret what I said. To clarify, a person who wants to
make 8
look like 7 can implement the changes in 5-10 minutes.

I didn't. That knowledge, just like any other knowledge, is not born
with and require time and efforts to know.

We just conveniently forget the learning process part.


Well, these days, a person can just google "banish metro" and get
instant knowledge. :-)


I think you missed xfile's point. Most people aren't even going to have
a clue you can do something like that, so they aren't going to look for
an option.



Thank you!
  #56  
Old December 7th 13, 02:53 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
xfile[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 101
Default Microsoft Rumors Say Big Changes Coming in Windows 8.2

On 12/7/2013 06:46, Wolf Kirchmeir wrote:
On 2013-12-06 4:54 PM, Ken Springer wrote:
On 12/6/13 12:50 PM, Juan Wei wrote:
xfile has written on 12/6/2013 4:11 AM:
You misinterpret what I said. To clarify, a person who wants to
make 8
look like 7 can implement the changes in 5-10 minutes.

I didn't. That knowledge, just like any other knowledge, is not born
with and require time and efforts to know.

We just conveniently forget the learning process part.

Well, these days, a person can just google "banish metro" and get
instant knowledge. :-)


I think you missed xfile's point. Most people aren't even going to have
a clue you can do something like that, so they aren't going to look for
an option.


Exactly so. Most people expect a computer to work like a car: just start
it up, and away you go. They expect every computer to work pretty well
the same way just as they expect every car to work pretty well the same
way.

Imagine that GM decided to put the accelerator on the steering wheel,
but left the accelerator pedal in place. But you can't use the pedal
unless you figure out that you have to turn the ignition switch towards
you instead of away from you, and then press the Resume button on the
cruise control. Then you have to start the car by turning the ignition
switch in the standard direction. If you want to use the pedal every
time you drive the car, yuou have to go to a mechanic who will rearrange
some of the wiring....

Have a good day,

Exactly!

But Microsofties would think that it's an old thinking mentality , and
more importantly, why is that it's Apple and/or Google gets to redefine
the trend and not the giant?

What Microsofties don't realize is that both (and other) companies are
smart enough for not competing against the giant head-to-head (i.e. both
don't directly touch enterprises and business, in general), so they can
utilize their strengths without exposing weaknesses. Using devices as
an example, they are developed and designed *primarily* for personal use
and not with a grand goal to replace work machines.

Nevertheless, the boundary between personal and work is getting blurred
nowadays. Do I use a company notebook exclusively for work-related
emails and have my tablet or phone only for personal emails, so I carry
both wherever I go? Obviously, it doesn't work that way. So people
will choose to carry one, and most of time, the lightest and most
convenient for both purposes – and that is a device.

But at least at this point, devices for work purposes and as everyone
already knows are mostly for convenience (so you don't have to run back
to your workstations) and are not suitable for long work hours (at
least, not without an attached *keyboard* and/or an external monitor)
needless to say for heavy-duty works, such as lengthy documents, complex
image editing, and so on.

But we have this giant who, again, wants it all and wants to be the
leader in all areas, despite the lack of talents and experience on the
final finished products (console is a small niche and accessories are
not) and final end users and who has always been an OEM company and now
wants to change everything including those shouldn't.

"One Microsoft" or Two or Three won't change anything unless they figure
out whether they should remain to be an OEM company or a finished
product company or a service company, or all.

They should have made that decision years ago but they didn't which is
why Steve Ballmer has to go. Currently, they want it all, but compared
with their main competitors, they know nothing about the rest two and
they are also competing directly against their old allies (e.g. Dell,
HP, Acer, Asus, etc.). What a great strategy!

  #57  
Old December 7th 13, 04:58 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Ken Springer[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,817
Default Microsoft Rumors Say Big Changes Coming in Windows 8.2

On 12/6/13 6:41 PM, xfile wrote:
On 12/7/2013 05:54, Ken Springer wrote:
On 12/6/13 12:50 PM, Juan Wei wrote:
xfile has written on 12/6/2013 4:11 AM:
You misinterpret what I said. To clarify, a person who wants to
make 8
look like 7 can implement the changes in 5-10 minutes.

I didn't. That knowledge, just like any other knowledge, is not born
with and require time and efforts to know.

We just conveniently forget the learning process part.

Well, these days, a person can just google "banish metro" and get
instant knowledge. :-)


I think you missed xfile's point. Most people aren't even going to have
a clue you can do something like that, so they aren't going to look for
an option.



Thank you!


You're welcome.

--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 24.0
Thunderbird 17.0.8
  #58  
Old December 7th 13, 06:46 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Shadow
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,638
Default Microsoft Rumors Say Big Changes Coming in Windows 8.2

On Sun, 01 Dec 2013 15:39:00 -0500, Keith Nuttle
wrote:

I will never place data in the "Cloud". It is my data to do with as I
wish, not what some computer company wants to do to make more money. I
have a perfect security system on my computer. I turn it off when I am
not using it.


You do mean "turn it off", as in "pull all the batteries,
including the MB ones", right ?


http://software.intel.com/sites/defa...whitepaper.pdf

(that's from NSA-Intel, not a hoax)
[]'s
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012
  #59  
Old December 7th 13, 07:24 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Juan Wei
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 553
Default Microsoft Rumors Say Big Changes Coming in Windows 8.2

Shadow has written on 12/7/2013 12:46 PM:
On Sun, 01 Dec 2013 15:39:00 -0500, Keith Nuttle
wrote:

I will never place data in the "Cloud". It is my data to do with as I
wish, not what some computer company wants to do to make more money. I
have a perfect security system on my computer. I turn it off when I am
not using it.


You do mean "turn it off", as in "pull all the batteries,
including the MB ones", right ?


I think a true power-off would suffice.
  #60  
Old December 8th 13, 11:28 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
R. H. Breener[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 93
Default Microsoft Rumors Say Big Changes Coming in Windows 8.2


"Johnny" wrote in message
...

I have moved on to Linux Mint 16, and won't be using Windows again. It
does everything I need it to do, and it's fun to use.


My family is moving on to MACS. We're among the last ones hanging on to
Windows. After all these recent problems with Vista and W7, we may join them
when these computers w/Windows crash and burn for the last time. I played
with a friend's W8 for awhile and wasn't impressed.

 




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