Windows Mail curiosities

I have had very inconsistent results receiving mail in Windows Mail accounts
(8.1, but perhaps that doesn't matter). Accounts from IP addresses that are
"clean" w/r/t blacklisting still get bounced from WM on occasion. The only
consistent results have been from one WM account to another. What good is
that???

Anyone else have this experience, or know how to slap MS on the back of the
head to get this problem corrected?

--
best regards,

Neil

Neil Gould wrote:
I have had very inconsistent results receiving mail in Windows Mail accounts
(8.1, but perhaps that doesn't matter). Accounts from IP addresses that are
"clean" w/r/t blacklisting still get bounced from WM on occasion. The only
consistent results have been from one WM account to another. What good is
that???

Anyone else have this experience, or know how to slap MS on the back of the
head to get this problem corrected?

Windows Mail (Win8x app) or Windows Mail (grabbed from Vista an manually
copied to Win8) ??



--
....winston
msft mvp consumer apps

....winston‫ wrote:
Neil Gould wrote:
I have had very inconsistent results receiving mail in Windows Mail
accounts (8.1, but perhaps that doesn't matter). Accounts from IP
addresses that are "clean" w/r/t blacklisting still get bounced from
WM on occasion. The only consistent results have been from one WM
account to another. What good is that???

Anyone else have this experience, or know how to slap MS on the back
of the head to get this problem corrected?

Windows Mail (Win8x app) or Windows Mail (grabbed from Vista an
manually copied to Win8) ??

Although I said WM, Win8 app, I really *should* have said "outlook.com",
which is where the bounced emails are being sent. The WM app probably works
as designed, bizarre UI and all.

--
best regards,

Neil

Neil Gould wrote:

winston wrote:

Neil Gould wrote:

I have had very inconsistent results receiving mail in Windows Mail
accounts (8.1, but perhaps that doesn't matter). Accounts from IP
addresses that are "clean" w/r/t blacklisting still get bounced
from WM on occasion. The only consistent results have been from one
WM account to another. What good is that???

Anyone else have this experience, or know how to slap MS on the
back of the head to get this problem corrected?

Windows Mail (Win8x app) or Windows Mail (grabbed from Vista an
manually copied to Win8) ??

Although I said WM, Win8 app, I really *should* have said
"outlook.com", which is where the bounced emails are being sent. The
WM app probably works as designed, bizarre UI and all.

If your sending SMTP server claimed an e-mail could not be sent, it
should provide and error message. It may only report the error status
that your sending SMTP server got from the receiving SMTP server. If it
was the receiving SMTP server that refused delivery or bounced an e-mail
sent to it then the NDR (non-delivery report) e-mail that the receiving
SMTP server e-mailed to you should say why it could not or would not
deliver your e-mail.

So what does the NDR e-mail sent to you say regarding an error in
delivery?

Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Thu, 5 Mar 2015 16:50:50 -0500, "Neil Gould"
wrote:

...winston‫ wrote:
Neil Gould wrote:
I have had very inconsistent results receiving mail in Windows Mail
accounts (8.1, but perhaps that doesn't matter). Accounts from IP
addresses that are "clean" w/r/t blacklisting still get bounced
from WM on occasion. The only consistent results have been from
one WM account to another. What good is that???

Anyone else have this experience, or know how to slap MS on the
back of the head to get this problem corrected?

Windows Mail (Win8x app) or Windows Mail (grabbed from Vista an
manually copied to Win8) ??

Although I said WM, Win8 app, I really *should* have said
"outlook.com", which is where the bounced emails are being sent. The
WM app probably works as designed, bizarre UI and all.

Microsoft managed public email servers / domains are notoriously bad
with regard to anti-spam measures. You might consider switching to a
Gmail account, their anti-spam measures border on black magic.

Yeah... Gmail... the most prolific phishing accounts available!

Seriously though, the issue is actually pretty simple: Microsoft needs to
get an up-to-date blacklist server instead of relying on one that might have
somewhat worked during the '90s. IPs with 100% clear reputations on hundreds
of current blacklist servers should not be getting bounced from outlook.com
if Microsoft is at all serious about having a cross-device OS for business.

--
best regards,

Neil

On Thu, 5 Mar 2015 19:01:37 -0500, "Neil Gould"
wrote:

Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Thu, 5 Mar 2015 16:50:50 -0500, "Neil Gould"
wrote:

...winston‫ wrote:
Neil Gould wrote:
I have had very inconsistent results receiving mail in Windows Mail
accounts (8.1, but perhaps that doesn't matter). Accounts from IP
addresses that are "clean" w/r/t blacklisting still get bounced
from WM on occasion. The only consistent results have been from
one WM account to another. What good is that???

Anyone else have this experience, or know how to slap MS on the
back of the head to get this problem corrected?

Windows Mail (Win8x app) or Windows Mail (grabbed from Vista an
manually copied to Win8) ??

Although I said WM, Win8 app, I really *should* have said
"outlook.com", which is where the bounced emails are being sent. The
WM app probably works as designed, bizarre UI and all.

Microsoft managed public email servers / domains are notoriously bad
with regard to anti-spam measures. You might consider switching to a
Gmail account, their anti-spam measures border on black magic.

Yeah... Gmail... the most prolific phishing accounts available!

Seriously though, the issue is actually pretty simple: Microsoft needs to
get an up-to-date blacklist server instead of relying on one that might have
somewhat worked during the '90s. IPs with 100% clear reputations on hundreds
of current blacklist servers should not be getting bounced from outlook.com
if Microsoft is at all serious about having a cross-device OS for business.

I was going to make a list of the top 10 or so technical errors in the chain
above, (which when combined make it very hard to figure out what your
complaint is), but I can probably sum up the situation by asking, who uses
outlook.com for business?

On Thu, 05 Mar 2015 23:56:14 +0000, Stormin' Norman wrote:

On Thu, 5 Mar 2015 19:01:37 -0500, "Neil Gould" wrote:

Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Thu, 5 Mar 2015 16:50:50 -0500, "Neil Gould"
wrote:

...winston‫ wrote:
Neil Gould wrote:
I have had very inconsistent results receiving mail in Windows Mail
accounts (8.1, but perhaps that doesn't matter). Accounts from IP
addresses that are "clean" w/r/t blacklisting still get bounced
from WM on occasion. The only consistent results have been from
one WM account to another. What good is that???

Anyone else have this experience, or know how to slap MS on the
back of the head to get this problem corrected?

Windows Mail (Win8x app) or Windows Mail (grabbed from Vista an
manually copied to Win8) ??

Although I said WM, Win8 app, I really *should* have said
"outlook.com", which is where the bounced emails are being sent. The
WM app probably works as designed, bizarre UI and all.

Microsoft managed public email servers / domains are notoriously bad
with regard to anti-spam measures. You might consider switching to a
Gmail account, their anti-spam measures border on black magic.

Yeah... Gmail... the most prolific phishing accounts available!

No FUD in that statement..... :-)

Probably the servers fell over...

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

Char Jackson wrote:
On Thu, 5 Mar 2015 19:01:37 -0500, "Neil Gould"
wrote:

Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Thu, 5 Mar 2015 16:50:50 -0500, "Neil Gould"
wrote:

...winston‫ wrote:
Neil Gould wrote:
I have had very inconsistent results receiving mail in Windows
Mail accounts (8.1, but perhaps that doesn't matter). Accounts
from IP addresses that are "clean" w/r/t blacklisting still get
bounced from WM on occasion. The only consistent results have
been from one WM account to another. What good is that???

Anyone else have this experience, or know how to slap MS on the
back of the head to get this problem corrected?

Windows Mail (Win8x app) or Windows Mail (grabbed from Vista an
manually copied to Win8) ??

Although I said WM, Win8 app, I really *should* have said
"outlook.com", which is where the bounced emails are being sent.
The WM app probably works as designed, bizarre UI and all.

Microsoft managed public email servers / domains are notoriously bad
with regard to anti-spam measures. You might consider switching to
a Gmail account, their anti-spam measures border on black magic.

Yeah... Gmail... the most prolific phishing accounts available!

Seriously though, the issue is actually pretty simple: Microsoft
needs to get an up-to-date blacklist server instead of relying on
one that might have somewhat worked during the '90s. IPs with 100%
clear reputations on hundreds of current blacklist servers should
not be getting bounced from outlook.com if Microsoft is at all
serious about having a cross-device OS for business.

I was going to make a list of the top 10 or so technical errors in
the chain above,

Oh... go ahead. I always like to learn a thing or two. ;-)

(which when combined make it very hard to figure out
what your complaint is), but I can probably sum up the situation by
asking, who uses outlook.com for business?

Your question is exactly the problem, and the basis of my compaint. MS is
touting a system that is supposed to work across a number of devices running
Windows to provide access to all of your "stuff" from any of them.
Businesses are their target market, Outlook.com is their native email
service, and the disfunctional way that it works is incompatible with that
goal.

It just seems to me that this particular problem shouldn't be that difficult
to fix. But, if you can explain to me why it would be, I would appreciate
it.

--
best regards,

Neil

Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Thu, 5 Mar 2015 16:50:50 -0500, "Neil Gould" wrote:

Yeah... Gmail... the most prolific phishing accounts available!

No FUD in that statement..... :-)

Read the EULA, by any chance? I have. I also can see what they're doing with
my Gmail account on my Android tablet. I would keep nothing of real value on
that.
--
best regards,

Neil

Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Thu, 5 Mar 2015 16:50:50 -0500, "Neil Gould" wrote:

...winston‫ wrote:
Neil Gould wrote:
I have had very inconsistent results receiving mail in Windows Mail
accounts (8.1, but perhaps that doesn't matter). Accounts from IP
addresses that are "clean" w/r/t blacklisting still get bounced from
WM on occasion. The only consistent results have been from one WM
account to another. What good is that???

Anyone else have this experience, or know how to slap MS on the back
of the head to get this problem corrected?

Windows Mail (Win8x app) or Windows Mail (grabbed from Vista an
manually copied to Win8) ??

Although I said WM, Win8 app, I really *should* have said "outlook.com",
which is where the bounced emails are being sent. The WM app probably works
as designed, bizarre UI and all.

Microsoft managed public email servers / domains are notoriously bad with regard
to anti-spam measures. You might consider switching to a Gmail account, their
anti-spam measures border on black magic.

When was the last time you actually used a MSFT account web UI for email ?

Outlook.com or Live.com or Hotmail.com or maybe earlier pre Hotmail
MSn.com ?

I suspect that you've fairly little knowledge of how the spam filters
work and what options are available for users or how the system
functions for spam, phish and malware.

In my experiencre Gmail catches more spam but only due it being a larger
target (just like Windows as an o/s). After over 10 yrs of using the
three primary web UI (Google, all MSFT domains, and Yahoo)...the worst
service and by a long shot more notoriously bad with regard to anti-spam
measures is Yahoo..and Yahoo is still better in anti-spam prevention
than the majority of isp's web mail.

--
....winston
msft mvp consumer apps

Neil Gould wrote:
Char Jackson wrote:
On Thu, 5 Mar 2015 19:01:37 -0500, "Neil Gould"
wrote:

Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Thu, 5 Mar 2015 16:50:50 -0500, "Neil Gould"
wrote:

...winston‫ wrote:
Neil Gould wrote:
I have had very inconsistent results receiving mail in Windows
Mail accounts (8.1, but perhaps that doesn't matter). Accounts
from IP addresses that are "clean" w/r/t blacklisting still get
bounced from WM on occasion. The only consistent results have
been from one WM account to another. What good is that???

Anyone else have this experience, or know how to slap MS on the
back of the head to get this problem corrected?

Windows Mail (Win8x app) or Windows Mail (grabbed from Vista an
manually copied to Win8) ??

Although I said WM, Win8 app, I really *should* have said
"outlook.com", which is where the bounced emails are being sent.
The WM app probably works as designed, bizarre UI and all.

Microsoft managed public email servers / domains are notoriously bad
with regard to anti-spam measures. You might consider switching to
a Gmail account, their anti-spam measures border on black magic.

Yeah... Gmail... the most prolific phishing accounts available!

Seriously though, the issue is actually pretty simple: Microsoft
needs to get an up-to-date blacklist server instead of relying on
one that might have somewhat worked during the '90s. IPs with 100%
clear reputations on hundreds of current blacklist servers should
not be getting bounced from outlook.com if Microsoft is at all
serious about having a cross-device OS for business.

I was going to make a list of the top 10 or so technical errors in
the chain above,

Oh... go ahead. I always like to learn a thing or two. ;-)

(which when combined make it very hard to figure out
what your complaint is), but I can probably sum up the situation by
asking, who uses outlook.com for business?

Your question is exactly the problem, and the basis of my compaint. MS is
touting a system that is supposed to work across a number of devices running
Windows to provide access to all of your "stuff" from any of them.
Businesses are their target market, Outlook.com is their native email
service, and the disfunctional way that it works is incompatible with that
goal.

It just seems to me that this particular problem shouldn't be that difficult
to fix. But, if you can explain to me why it would be, I would appreciate
it.

Well that's a start...but it says really little about what your problem
really is.
First - you mentioned Windows 8.1 then discounted it
Second - stated then corrected that it wasn't Windows Mail but Outlook.com
Third - complained about blacklisted clean ip address but failed to
indicate what those might be and a lack of any information on the actual
'bounced' message that occurs 'occasionally'

Why not provide more details than beating around the bush in
generalities and what you claim MSFT is touting. Fyi...with nearly a
half billion consumer users of MSFT domains it would be hard to believe
any statement that 'business it their target market. The target market
is obvious - China, Asia Pacific, and Spanish speaking countries...those
markets dwarf the entire rest of the world. Business and Enterprise use
is a tiny speck on that landscape.

--
....winston
msft mvp consumer apps

On Fri, 6 Mar 2015 01:44:10 -0500, "Neil Gould"
wrote:

Char Jackson wrote:
On Thu, 5 Mar 2015 19:01:37 -0500, "Neil Gould"
wrote:

Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Thu, 5 Mar 2015 16:50:50 -0500, "Neil Gould"
wrote:

...winston‫ wrote:
Neil Gould wrote:
I have had very inconsistent results receiving mail in Windows
Mail accounts (8.1, but perhaps that doesn't matter). Accounts
from IP addresses that are "clean" w/r/t blacklisting still get
bounced from WM on occasion. The only consistent results have
been from one WM account to another. What good is that???

Anyone else have this experience, or know how to slap MS on the
back of the head to get this problem corrected?

Windows Mail (Win8x app) or Windows Mail (grabbed from Vista an
manually copied to Win8) ??

Although I said WM, Win8 app, I really *should* have said
"outlook.com", which is where the bounced emails are being sent.
The WM app probably works as designed, bizarre UI and all.

Microsoft managed public email servers / domains are notoriously bad
with regard to anti-spam measures. You might consider switching to
a Gmail account, their anti-spam measures border on black magic.

Yeah... Gmail... the most prolific phishing accounts available!

Seriously though, the issue is actually pretty simple: Microsoft
needs to get an up-to-date blacklist server instead of relying on
one that might have somewhat worked during the '90s. IPs with 100%
clear reputations on hundreds of current blacklist servers should
not be getting bounced from outlook.com if Microsoft is at all
serious about having a cross-device OS for business.

I was going to make a list of the top 10 or so technical errors in
the chain above,

Oh... go ahead. I always like to learn a thing or two. ;-)

I'll try, but reading your posts makes my head hurt. Plus, Vanguard and
....winston have things well in hand.

Let's take this paragraph:
"I have had very inconsistent results receiving mail in Windows
Mail accounts (8.1, but perhaps that doesn't matter). Accounts
from IP addresses that are "clean" w/r/t blacklisting still get
bounced from WM on occasion. The only consistent results have
been from one WM account to another. What good is that???"

"I have had very inconsistent results receiving mail" - so there's a problem
with NOT receiving certain emails, meaning the first thing I have to do as a
reader is mentally invert your logic.

"in Windows Mail accounts" (later updated to say "in outlook.com accounts" -
this part is confusing because Windows Mail is a news client, and as such,
it doesn't have accounts or its accounts are irrelevant. In fact, the entire
mail client is irrelevant. Your meaning still isn't clear even with the
'outlook.com' update.

"(8.1, but perhaps that doesn't matter)" - right, your OS doesn't matter
much.

"Accounts from IP addresses" - accounts from IP addresses? Did you mean to
say email from mail servers at specific IP addresses? Accounts don't have IP
addresses, just like emails don't have IP addresses. Mail servers have IP
addresses, so maybe you meant that.

"still get bounced from WM" - bounced from? Did you mean to say bounced by?
If I change WM to outlook.com, it doesn't get any clearer because above
you're talking about intermittent reception issues and here you're talking
about intermittent sending issues. By this point, I've done so many mental
substitutions that I don't know what the issue is.

"The only consistent results have been from one WM account to another." -
what kind of consistent results? Sending? Receiving? Bouncing? Blacklisting?
Consistent in a good way or consistent in a bad way?

That's only the first paragraph. It gets worse after that.


(which when combined make it very hard to figure out
what your complaint is), but I can probably sum up the situation by
asking, who uses outlook.com for business?

Your question is exactly the problem, and the basis of my compaint. MS is
touting a system that is supposed to work across a number of devices running
Windows to provide access to all of your "stuff" from any of them.
Businesses are their target market, Outlook.com is their native email
service, and the disfunctional way that it works is incompatible with that
goal.

It just seems to me that this particular problem shouldn't be that difficult
to fix. But, if you can explain to me why it would be, I would appreciate
it.

I don't even know what the problem *is*, let alone how to resolve it. I
can't untangle your meaning with any significant confidence. That's fine,
though, you don't need me. :-)

....winston‫ wrote:
Neil Gould wrote:
Char Jackson wrote:
On Thu, 5 Mar 2015 19:01:37 -0500, "Neil Gould"
wrote:

Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Thu, 5 Mar 2015 16:50:50 -0500, "Neil Gould"
wrote:

...winston‫ wrote:
Neil Gould wrote:
I have had very inconsistent results receiving mail in Windows
Mail accounts (8.1, but perhaps that doesn't matter). Accounts
from IP addresses that are "clean" w/r/t blacklisting still get
bounced from WM on occasion. The only consistent results have
been from one WM account to another. What good is that???

Anyone else have this experience, or know how to slap MS on the
back of the head to get this problem corrected?

Windows Mail (Win8x app) or Windows Mail (grabbed from Vista an
manually copied to Win8) ??

Although I said WM, Win8 app, I really *should* have said
"outlook.com", which is where the bounced emails are being sent.
The WM app probably works as designed, bizarre UI and all.

Microsoft managed public email servers / domains are notoriously
bad with regard to anti-spam measures. You might consider
switching to a Gmail account, their anti-spam measures border on
black magic.

Yeah... Gmail... the most prolific phishing accounts available!

Seriously though, the issue is actually pretty simple: Microsoft
needs to get an up-to-date blacklist server instead of relying on
one that might have somewhat worked during the '90s. IPs with 100%
clear reputations on hundreds of current blacklist servers should
not be getting bounced from outlook.com if Microsoft is at all
serious about having a cross-device OS for business.

I was going to make a list of the top 10 or so technical errors in
the chain above,

Oh... go ahead. I always like to learn a thing or two. ;-)

(which when combined make it very hard to figure out
what your complaint is), but I can probably sum up the situation by
asking, who uses outlook.com for business?

Your question is exactly the problem, and the basis of my compaint.
MS is touting a system that is supposed to work across a number of
devices running Windows to provide access to all of your "stuff"
from any of them. Businesses are their target market, Outlook.com is
their native email service, and the disfunctional way that it works
is incompatible with that goal.

It just seems to me that this particular problem shouldn't be that
difficult to fix. But, if you can explain to me why it would be, I
would appreciate it.

Well that's a start...but it says really little about what your
problem really is.
First - you mentioned Windows 8.1 then discounted it

Because I originally attributed the issue of emails being rejected from
known "good" accounts to the WM app, which wasn't the case.

Second - stated then corrected that it wasn't Windows Mail but
Outlook.com

Which is the mail server at issue. WM on Win8 using outlook.com, the default
Windows 8.1 configuration.

Third - complained about blacklisted clean ip address but
failed to indicate what those might be and a lack of any information
on the actual 'bounced' message that occurs 'occasionally'

I'm referring to email bounced from outlook.com with the error that "someone
from your domain is on our blocked senders list", yet that mail is from IP
addresses that test clean and have no problems with hosts using up-to-date
blacklist servers.

Why not provide more details than beating around the bush in
generalities and what you claim MSFT is touting. Fyi...with nearly a
half billion consumer users of MSFT domains it would be hard to
believe any statement that 'business it their target market. The
target market is obvious - China, Asia Pacific, and Spanish speaking
countries...those markets dwarf the entire rest of the world.
Business and Enterprise use is a tiny speck on that landscape.

Well, OK, it is my speculation that MS is targeting business users, so we
can drop that aspect of this thread altogether.

--
best regards,

Neil

Char Jackson wrote:
On Fri, 6 Mar 2015 01:44:10 -0500, "Neil Gould"
wrote:

Char Jackson wrote:
On Thu, 5 Mar 2015 19:01:37 -0500, "Neil Gould"
wrote:

Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Thu, 5 Mar 2015 16:50:50 -0500, "Neil Gould"
wrote:

...winston‫ wrote:
Neil Gould wrote:
I have had very inconsistent results receiving mail in Windows
Mail accounts (8.1, but perhaps that doesn't matter). Accounts
from IP addresses that are "clean" w/r/t blacklisting still get
bounced from WM on occasion. The only consistent results have
been from one WM account to another. What good is that???

Anyone else have this experience, or know how to slap MS on the
back of the head to get this problem corrected?

Windows Mail (Win8x app) or Windows Mail (grabbed from Vista an
manually copied to Win8) ??

Although I said WM, Win8 app, I really *should* have said
"outlook.com", which is where the bounced emails are being sent.
The WM app probably works as designed, bizarre UI and all.

Microsoft managed public email servers / domains are notoriously
bad with regard to anti-spam measures. You might consider
switching to a Gmail account, their anti-spam measures border on
black magic.

Yeah... Gmail... the most prolific phishing accounts available!

Seriously though, the issue is actually pretty simple: Microsoft
needs to get an up-to-date blacklist server instead of relying on
one that might have somewhat worked during the '90s. IPs with 100%
clear reputations on hundreds of current blacklist servers should
not be getting bounced from outlook.com if Microsoft is at all
serious about having a cross-device OS for business.

I was going to make a list of the top 10 or so technical errors in
the chain above,

Oh... go ahead. I always like to learn a thing or two. ;-)

I'll try, but reading your posts makes my head hurt. Plus, Vanguard
and ...winston have things well in hand.

Let's take this paragraph:
"I have had very inconsistent results receiving mail in Windows
Mail accounts (8.1, but perhaps that doesn't matter). Accounts
from IP addresses that are "clean" w/r/t blacklisting still get
bounced from WM on occasion. The only consistent results have
been from one WM account to another. What good is that???"

"I have had very inconsistent results receiving mail" - so there's a
problem with NOT receiving certain emails, meaning the first thing I
have to do as a reader is mentally invert your logic.

I thought that would be cleared up by my correcting the attribution to
outlook.com, but if not, I'll try again. Mail from one non-outlook.com
account is consistently rejected by outlook.com, i.e. it is bounced back to
the sender. Mail from another non-outlook.com account is accepted at times
and rejected at other times, with no clear pattern. The only consistent
result I have so far is mail from one outlook.com account to another.

"in Windows Mail accounts" (later updated to say "in outlook.com
accounts" - this part is confusing because Windows Mail is a news
client, and as such, it doesn't have accounts or its accounts are
irrelevant. In fact, the entire mail client is irrelevant. Your
meaning still isn't clear even with the 'outlook.com' update.

References to the Windows Mail app should be disregarded. It was incorrect,
and I tried to correct it, even in the header. I'm not sure why the meaning
isn't clear when referring to outlook.com, since it does have accounts, and
is the mail server that, from all I can tell by its settings and options, is
typical of Windows-based mail servers.

"(8.1, but perhaps that doesn't matter)" - right, your OS doesn't
matter much.

It might not, if one has outlook.com accounts on Vista, Win7, etc. The
problem is the mail server, not the computer using that mail server.

"Accounts from IP addresses" - accounts from IP addresses? Did you
mean to say email from mail servers at specific IP addresses?

Yes. I thought the rest of that sentence, "... that are "clean" w/r/t
blacklisting..." made that clear.

"still get bounced from WM" - bounced from? Did you mean to say
bounced by? If I change WM to outlook.com, it doesn't get any clearer
because above you're talking about intermittent reception issues and
here you're talking about intermittent sending issues.

When "WM" is disregarded, the problem is a reception issue, and I hoped that
the rest of the context supported that. I do understand why there would be
confusion if WM is not taken out of the picture.

That's only the first paragraph. It gets worse after that.

(which when combined make it very hard to figure out
what your complaint is), but I can probably sum up the situation by
asking, who uses outlook.com for business?

Your question is exactly the problem, and the basis of my compaint.
MS is touting a system that is supposed to work across a number of
devices running Windows to provide access to all of your "stuff"
from any of them. Businesses are their target market, Outlook.com is
their native email service, and the disfunctional way that it works
is incompatible with that goal.

It just seems to me that this particular problem shouldn't be that
difficult to fix. But, if you can explain to me why it would be, I
would appreciate it.

I don't even know what the problem *is*, let alone how to resolve it.
I can't untangle your meaning with any significant confidence. That's
fine, though, you don't need me. :-)

So... I'll try again.
* Disregard references to WM. The app is not the problem at hand.

* While testing a new Win8.1 setup with the intention of using the "native"
feature set, the problem is that some emails sent to the outlook.com account
are being rejected. Some are bounced (returned to sender) consistently,
others intermittently. The only ones that are consistently received are
those from other outlook.com accounts.

* I have no way to determine how far this extends, since I can only verify a
handful of accounts. That's why I asked whether others have seen this
behavior.

* The problem appears to be the use of an outdated blacklist server, because
the mailer daemon message indicates that "...someone from your domain is on
our blocked senders list...". Since the domains in question test "clean" on
hundreds of blacklist servers, I surmise that the blacklist server used by
outlook.com is not resolving the full IP of the domain, just the equivalent
of the "prefix", or last century era format that does not actually resolve
domains from other than fixed IP address servers. A move to one of the
current blacklist servers should clear that up.

--
best regards,

Neil

Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Fri, 06 Mar 2015 00:12:40 -0700, "...winston?" wrote:

Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Thu, 5 Mar 2015 16:50:50 -0500, "Neil Gould" wrote:

Microsoft managed public email servers / domains are notoriously bad with regard
to anti-spam measures. You might consider switching to a Gmail account, their
anti-spam measures border on black magic.

When was the last time you actually used a MSFT account web UI for email ?

Outlook.com or Live.com or Hotmail.com or maybe earlier pre Hotmail
MSn.com ?

I suspect that you've fairly little knowledge of how the spam filters
work and what options are available for users or how the system
functions for spam, phish and malware.

That it Winston baby, come out swinging..... That is what I love about you.
"Ready, Fire, Aim"!

I'll take that as confirmation that you've less than stellar knowledge
on use of an Outlook.com web UI account and their related spam
filters...and pretty much places the earlier statement 'notoriously bad'
where it belongs - in the recycle bin.


--
....winston
msft mvp consumer apps