Installing win10 over W\in 10

BTW as I said in another subthread, the full verions of windows has been
working on this session, but I haven't done anything to make it work. I
ran DIMS (or DISM?) but it had already been working 10 minutes before I
started that, so it's a good session for some reason.

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Sat, 27 Jun 2020 13:04:54 -0700, T
wrote:

On 2020-06-27 10:45, micky wrote:

BSOD: Did you install "Who Crashed" and look at the report?
(Let me know if you need the link.)

I found it, installed it. It looked at the first 10** crashes (I have 50
now. I'm going to make a necklace out of them.)

** I can move all but the last 10 to another directory if I want to
examine the last 10. (I first have to read all that it says about the
first 10.)

I haven't read all of it yet, but it suggests the driver for
avgardisk.sys (AVG Anti Rootkit Disk Filter, AVG Technologies CZ,
s.r.o.) is a problem. I have the most recent version of AVG FRee, so
I turned it off for a while. (One of the few driver changes I can make
without rebooting.)

Google doesn't list any recent crashes for AVG rootkit or even
AVG.

It has a list of 200 local drivers, which is several times more than the
number of items in Device Manager that I was checking for more recent
drivers.


That's a point. Yes, I have a spare HDD, but I'm 99% sure it will run
fine with just Windows 10 installed. I think the problem lies with one
of the programs or files, among all the others I've installed and want
to keep using.

I would try it anyway.

It's on my list to do. I've got the media now although I don't think I
have a spare Win10 product key.

And easier thing to do is to download and cut a Live USB
of Fedora. Boot off that and surf the internet and such

I don't understand this, but I'm reading aboug it

to see if yo have any issues. It is a good way to tell
if you have a hardware issue. You can also install gsmartcontrol in the

Or this.

Live USB and test your hard drive
(Let me know if you need links.)



I ran Memtest88 for 9 hours with no errors found.

If you are running non-ecc hardware, those memory tests are

I can look it up but right now I don't remember.

next to worthless. The only way I have found that gets
bad memory all the time is to sway them out with known
good memory. (I do not sell customer computers with out
ecc chipsets and ecc memory as I consider it to be unethical.)

It's been running***
for 16 hours in Safe Mode. If it were the hardware, could it do that?

A YUGE "perhaps". Most probably not. Safe mode does not
use the direct chipset drivers, but instead uses the generic
drivers.

Safe mode pretty much eliminates your memory

Eliminates it as a cause of the problem, you mean.

I looked at the mobo caps and one might be a little high in the middle,
or not. I'll look again with a straight edge.

When the caps go out, you typically brick.

Okay.

That leaves the BIOS,
the CPU, and other chips on board. Do they fail?

Yes, not very often though. 99% of the time it is
Windows causing the issue (software). When I come
across an actual hardware problem, I am usually
chasing the wrong rabbit down the wrong hole and
am surprised when I realize it is actually hardware.

But this shows up like a soar thumb with a Live USB.

Just an aside. I can only make it through only
about one build upgrade. When I wipe and reinstall
and do my "Windows de-fang" routine, Windows 10
settings down. This is why I wanted you to try a
spare hard drive.

Understood.

On 2020-06-27 19:02, micky wrote:
Did you install "Who Crashed" and look at the report?

I found it, installed it. It looked at the first 10** crashes (I have 50
now. I'm going to make a necklace out of them.)

I haven't read all of it yet, but it suggests the driver for
avgardisk.sys (AVG Anti Rootkit Disk Filter, AVG Technologies CZ,
s.r.o.) is a problem. I have the most recent version of AVG FRee, so
I turned it off for a while. (One of the few driver changes I can make
without rebooting.)

Google doesn't list any recent crashes for AVG rootkit or even
AVG.

Does not matter. I have a lot of customers with AVG. It is a pain in
the ass. Then again, I only get called when there are problems.

Remove AVG, reboot and see what happens. Report back.

If it works, download the 30 day trial of ESET and scan
your drive. And seriously consider paying for it. It
is reasonably priced.

Free AV's are really low quality.


although I don't think I have a spare Win10 product key.

http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/product_cd_key_viewer.html

And easier thing to do is to download and cut a Live USB
of Fedora. Boot off that and surf the internet and such

I don't understand this, but I'm reading aboug it

to see if yo have any issues. It is a good way to tell
if you have a hardware issue. You can also install gsmartcontrol in the

Or this.

Live USB and test your hard drive
(Let me know if you need links.)

Let me know if you need any help with this.

Quick start:

Download the ISO:
https://spins.fedoraproject.org/xfce/

Cut an 8 GB or larger flash drive with using:


https://github.com/FedoraQt/MediaWri...in64-4.1.5.exe

or

https://rufus.ie/

Configure your bios to boot off the flash drive (cussing
allowed).

Boot into Fedroa and fire up Firefox. Go to You Tube and
play Beethoven's 9th, full version whilst surfing other
stuff in another tab

"T" wrote in message ...
On 2020-06-27 05:29, SC Tom wrote:
I'm not sure if the "it" in "build it the same" is meant to be "is" or
"isn't", but to quote the 1st link; "The installation media (ex: ISO or
USB) must be the same edition and same or newer build as your currently
installed Windows 10. If it's not, then the repair install will fail."

Hi Tom,

That was my concern. I have used the technique to
"upgrade" the build, but never to reinstall the
current build. And since these How-To's have a lot
of goofs in them, I wanted to verify with you if
you have actually got it to work with the "current"
build.

-T

Yes, the last two PC's I did used the current build ISO with no problems. It
ran and looked like a regular "Upgrade", but was basically upgrading itself
to itself.
--

SC Tom

On 6/25/2020 11:00 PM, T wrote:
in place re-installs went out with XP.

The best I can find is to open an administrator's cmd
and do a

Â*Â*Â* sfc /scannow

If you are not on build (WinVer.exe) 2004, you can do
an in place upgrade with

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/soft...d/windows10ISO

HTH

Not at all, In-Place reinstalls are still around in Win 10.


Reinstall Windows 10 - Windows Help
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/...s-10-reinstall

Yousuf Khan

On 2020-06-28 04:13, SC Tom wrote:


"T" wrote in message ...
On 2020-06-27 05:29, SC Tom wrote:
I'm not sure if the "it" in "build it the same" is meant to be "is"
or "isn't", but to quote the 1st link; "The installation media (ex:
ISO or USB) must be the same edition and same or newer build as your
currently installed Windows 10. If it's not, then the repair install
will fail."

Hi Tom,

That was my concern.Â* I have used the technique to
"upgrade" the build, but never to reinstall the
current build.Â* And since these How-To's have a lot
of goofs in them, I wanted to verify with you if
you have actually got it to work with the "current"
build.

-T

Yes, the last two PC's I did used the current build ISO with no
problems. It ran and looked like a regular "Upgrade", but was basically
upgrading itself to itself.

They could have used a better description!

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Sun, 28 Jun 2020 16:51:17 -0700, T
wrote:

On 2020-06-28 04:13, SC Tom wrote:


"T" wrote in message ...
On 2020-06-27 05:29, SC Tom wrote:
I'm not sure if the "it" in "build it the same" is meant to be "is"
or "isn't", but to quote the 1st link; "The installation media (ex:
ISO or USB) must be the same edition and same or newer build as your
currently installed Windows 10. If it's not, then the repair install
will fail."

Hi Tom,

That was my concern.* I have used the technique to
"upgrade" the build, but never to reinstall the
current build.* And since these How-To's have a lot
of goofs in them, I wanted to verify with you if
you have actually got it to work with the "current"
build.

-T

Yes, the last two PC's I did used the current build ISO with no
problems. It ran and looked like a regular "Upgrade", but was basically
upgrading itself to itself.

They could have used a better description!

That's for sure.

I was able to run normally for about 12 hours, but I had things to do on
the PC. so I didn't try reinstalling win10 until I was back in Safe
mode.

Even though I had just dl'd the install media, it gives you the chance
to install updates to it. (I don't know where they are put, right in the
flashdrive or somewhere else) and after that it said I couldn't run the
install. It gave me a link to a page of Requirements for Win10.

So I ran it again right after that, but chose not to install the
updates. And this time it told me I coudln't run it from Safe Mode.

I went back to that webpage and it said not a thing about not running in
safe mode. They could have done that better too.

Tomorrow I'll try again to install it in regular mode, but I have a
feeling it's a non-MS driver. There are just so many of them.

I turned off AVG and it still crashed twice.

On 2020-06-28 20:12, micky wrote:
Tomorrow I'll try again to install it in regular mode, but I have a
feeling it's a non-MS driver. There are just so many of them.

Keep us updated. I am dying of curiosity!

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Thu, 25 Jun 2020 21:23:57 -0400, Micky
wrote:

I tried to install win10 over win10, and I was able to get to 60% but
ten seconds afterr I moved the mouse so that the screen lit up again,
it crashed.

And even if it got to 99%, it says it's going to have to start
windows several times, and t here's n o way it coud boot even twice
in a row without crashing 30 seconds later for one of those times.

So I dug out the XP laptop to get back on line, and soon after that I
had a new plan:

Instead of installing win10 over the win10 IN the computer, I'll take
the drve out, put it in a dock, plug the dock into the XP laptop, and
run the win10 install program I made using the Media Creator.

That's one of the intended uses, isn't it? And since the XP laptop
never crashes, and iiuc it won't have to restart anything, since i'm
updating what is not the operating system in use, so it will go faster
too.

Will this work?

I'm convinced now that this was never intended.

I also tried to install win10 over win10 while the computer was in Safe
mode and got a message that one can't do it in Safe mode.

Every once in a while it starts without crashing so one of those times I
tried to install it. It got to maybe 78% and then it restarted, and
whether it was going to safe mode or not didn't really matter because it
didn't go far, only enough to install more files. Restarted again and
finally finished.complete with welcome screens about new features.

Ran for 12 hours. I forget what happened but it's crashed 2 or 3 times
since then, so it didn't fix anything. ;-( .


Will it work better with my win7 laptop?
(I'm still looking for the cord for that but I t hink I know where
it is.)

micky wrote:
In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Thu, 25 Jun 2020 21:23:57 -0400, Micky
wrote:

I tried to install win10 over win10, and I was able to get to 60% but
ten seconds afterr I moved the mouse so that the screen lit up again,
it crashed.

And even if it got to 99%, it says it's going to have to start
windows several times, and t here's n o way it coud boot even twice
in a row without crashing 30 seconds later for one of those times.

So I dug out the XP laptop to get back on line, and soon after that I
had a new plan:

Instead of installing win10 over the win10 IN the computer, I'll take
the drve out, put it in a dock, plug the dock into the XP laptop, and
run the win10 install program I made using the Media Creator.

That's one of the intended uses, isn't it? And since the XP laptop
never crashes, and iiuc it won't have to restart anything, since i'm
updating what is not the operating system in use, so it will go faster
too.

Will this work?

I'm convinced now that this was never intended.

I also tried to install win10 over win10 while the computer was in Safe
mode and got a message that one can't do it in Safe mode.

Every once in a while it starts without crashing so one of those times I
tried to install it. It got to maybe 78% and then it restarted, and
whether it was going to safe mode or not didn't really matter because it
didn't go far, only enough to install more files. Restarted again and
finally finished.complete with welcome screens about new features.

Ran for 12 hours. I forget what happened but it's crashed 2 or 3 times
since then, so it didn't fix anything. ;-( .

Will it work better with my win7 laptop?
(I'm still looking for the cord for that but I t hink I know where
it is.)


https://stackoverflow.com/questions/...r-in-windows-7

pnputil -e C:\driverexport.txt # Windows doesn't generally
# like you writing to the root
# of C: like that, but... whatever.

What that does, is list the drivers it can find.
Maybe you'll get lucky and spot something out
of the ordinary.

None of the techniques described in that thread, do a
thorough job of removing every candidate.

In Device Manager, in View, there's usually a "Show Hidden Devices"
item. In my list of non-PNP devices (things pnputil
would not show), I have a "cdenable" item showing
Code 24 and a yellow mark. That doesn't mean it's bad
necessarily, but that one is likely to be an ancient
item of some sort.

*******

The thing is, when you do a Repair install, it's sorta
like a DISM restorehealth or an SFC scannow. It "tanks up"
the WinSXS with a good file set.

But, it neither corrects issues with your Program Files,
nor necessarily cleans the registry. The Repair Install
has a "migration" process, which consumes a lot of the
install time, and "migration" includes copying things
that might be de-stabilizing the OS.

A Clean Install on the other hand, leaves nothing to the
imagination. It has no programs in it, until you add them.
It only has the drivers it finds on some Microsoft server.
It's a lot of work, putting all the programs back, moving
your email database from the backup of C: , back to the
profile storage location on the "clean" C: .

Paul

micky wrote:
In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Thu, 25 Jun 2020 21:23:57 -0400, Micky
wrote:

I tried to install win10 over win10, and I was able to get to 60% but
ten seconds afterr I moved the mouse so that the screen lit up again,
it crashed.

And even if it got to 99%, it says it's going to have to start
windows several times, and t here's n o way it coud boot even twice
in a row without crashing 30 seconds later for one of those times.

So I dug out the XP laptop to get back on line, and soon after that I
had a new plan:

Instead of installing win10 over the win10 IN the computer, I'll take
the drve out, put it in a dock, plug the dock into the XP laptop, and
run the win10 install program I made using the Media Creator.

That's one of the intended uses, isn't it? And since the XP laptop
never crashes, and iiuc it won't have to restart anything, since i'm
updating what is not the operating system in use, so it will go faster
too.

Will this work?

I'm convinced now that this was never intended.

I also tried to install win10 over win10 while the computer was in Safe
mode and got a message that one can't do it in Safe mode.

Every once in a while it starts without crashing so one of those times I
tried to install it. It got to maybe 78% and then it restarted, and
whether it was going to safe mode or not didn't really matter because it
didn't go far, only enough to install more files. Restarted again and
finally finished.complete with welcome screens about new features.

Ran for 12 hours. I forget what happened but it's crashed 2 or 3 times
since then, so it didn't fix anything. ;-( .

Will it work better with my win7 laptop?
(I'm still looking for the cord for that but I t hink I know where
it is.)


You can try windbg, on a "full memory dump" the next time the OS crashes.

Windows Debug is part of the Windows Tools that comes with the Win10 SDK.
You don't have to download the entire DVD of stuff, and there are
tick boxes and only one of the tick boxes needs to be set.

https://developer.microsoft.com/en-u...indows-10-sdk/

You can install that ahead of time if you want.

*******

To do a "full memory dump", you use the System Control Panel an the
Advanced tab, to set the Pagefile size to be slightly bigger than the memory.
If you had 3072MB of RAM, you could set the pagefile to 4000. It really
only needs to be 1MB larger, but a little extra space wouldn't hurt.

Then, with the pagefile set, you set the memory dump to "full" type.

The permissions on the MEMORY.DMP that is created, are a nuisance.
I had to fart around to fix that.

You can leave the tick box for "Automatic Restart", and the machine
will then reboot itself after the dump is finished. The dump process
is slow, but it's faster than the dump process back in Win2K/WinXP days.

I used Sysinternals NotMyFault to crash the computer. That simulates
a STOP D1 using an IRQL which is "too high".

https://download.sysinternals.com/files/NotMyFault.zip

And this is what the Windbg of the MEMORY.DMP looks like.
The Windows 10 one is a bit cleaner and doesn't have quite as
much noise as the other one I have on disk here.

https://i.postimg.cc/wMW7ffpK/windbg-and-memory-dmp.gif

In that example, it says "Busy", and it's still analyzing
the file and isn't quite finished. If I were to scroll
down, it labels the guilty party "notmyfault64.exe" or whatever.
It does not completely reverse engineer the crash like
a human analyst would. There was one guy over on the Microsoft
web forums, who could do that analysis if he received
a memory.dmp. But he sounded sick of doing them, too.

NotMyFault injects a file ending in .sys in the System32 folder.
And as far as I know, doesn't remove it either. And that's why
it is capable of tipping over the OS. A "user program"
should not tip over the OS. However, if you inject "MyFault.sys"
in the right place, that's how an assertion to break the
OS is set.

The output of WinDbg should mention the injected file.

Paul

In alt.comp.os.windows-10, on Mon, 29 Jun 2020 01:10:20 -0700, T
wrote:

On 2020-06-28 20:12, micky wrote:
Tomorrow I'll try again to install it in regular mode, but I have a
feeling it's a non-MS driver. There are just so many of them.

Keep us updated. I am dying of curiosity!

It wasn't tomorrow, 6/29, because I had to wait until one of the times
win10 started and took a long time before it crashed, but that did
happen, And I installed win10 efrom the flash drive. At about 75% it
rebooted and didn't need to fully boot to continue the install.

The install finished normally and gave the same welcome pages about new
features that the May install gave (since I guess this was the May
install.) and it worked fine for 12l hours iirc, but then it did crash.
and since then I don't think it's been any better than it was.

But the install, while win10 was running, from a flash drive, went fine.

Separately, I also used the medial creation tool to dl an iso file which
I used to create a DVD, but I figured the flash drive would run more
quickly.