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Rename NOT



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 4th 18, 02:51 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
EIEIO
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Posts: 2
Default Rename NOT

Win 7 Pro all up to date.

Try to rename a file and edits ok but when I hit return it erases the
edit back to the original name.

What the ______ is going on ???
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  #2  
Old September 4th 18, 03:40 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
David E. Ross[_2_]
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Posts: 1,035
Default Rename NOT

On 9/3/2018 6:51 PM, EIEIO wrote:
Win 7 Pro all up to date.

Try to rename a file and edits ok but when I hit return it erases the
edit back to the original name.

What the ______ is going on ???


This might be a system file that is protected. What is the existing
name of the file? What is the path to it?

--
David E. Ross
http://www.rossde.com

Too often, Twitter is a source of verbal vomit. Examples include Donald
Trump, Roseanne Barr, and Elon Musk.
  #3  
Old September 4th 18, 05:16 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
Paul[_32_]
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Posts: 11,873
Default Rename NOT

EIEIO wrote:
Win 7 Pro all up to date.

Try to rename a file and edits ok but when I hit return it erases the
edit back to the original name.

What the ______ is going on ???


What is it with this game of hide and seek ?

Don't we deserve to know the filename,
so we can experiment with a *similar* setup here ?

I bet the OS would not like it, if I tried to rename
the operating system kernel file. Hey, that sounds
like fun...

Go to your home directory, to some files you own
there, and rename one of those. See if it works.

Paul
  #4  
Old September 4th 18, 05:24 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
Bill in Co
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Posts: 1,927
Default Rename NOT

Paul wrote:
EIEIO wrote:
Win 7 Pro all up to date.

Try to rename a file and edits ok but when I hit return it erases the
edit back to the original name.

What the ______ is going on ???


What is it with this game of hide and seek ?

Don't we deserve to know the filename,
so we can experiment with a *similar* setup here ?

I bet the OS would not like it, if I tried to rename
the operating system kernel file. Hey, that sounds
like fun...

Go to your home directory, to some files you own
there, and rename one of those. See if it works.

Paul


Or ANY file that is currently in use by the system, or an open application,
I would think.


  #5  
Old September 4th 18, 07:54 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
EIEIO
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default Rename NOT


I am Admin on this PC with a logon pwd.
No other users.

10 files of various simple names in a folder in Favorites.
So then I copied the files to a folder C:\Stuff
Same problem, cannot rename.

No error message.
Files are NOT read only or anything else.

Even if there were hidden characters in the filename why not allow rename ?

I have renamed filenames with Chinese symbols no problem.
These have simple text.



EIEIO wrote:
Win 7 Pro all up to date.

Try to rename a file and edits ok but when I hit return it erases the
edit back to the original name.

What the ______ is going on ???


  #6  
Old September 4th 18, 01:21 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default Rename NOT

EIEIO wrote:

I am Admin on this PC with a logon pwd.
No other users.

10 files of various simple names in a folder in Favorites.
So then I copied the files to a folder C:\Stuff
Same problem, cannot rename.

No error message.
Files are NOT read only or anything else.

Even if there were hidden characters in the filename why not allow rename ?

I have renamed filenames with Chinese symbols no problem.
These have simple text.


First, a reference link. This URL is the current version
of the canonical page on the topic of file naming. It's
a start at a description, but there are still some
topics it leaves to the imagination. In some cases,
a person seeing the filename you've got, will point
you to the "chapter and verse" in here, on what
the name violates.

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/win.../naming-a-file

It's my suspicion, that our web browsers are letting us
down, with functions such as "Save As" "Web Page complete",
as filenames can be downloaded off the web that don't
pass muster. And these later become an issue when renaming
or copying or doing anything else.

*******

Articles were people get themselves in trouble, are
easy enough to find.

https://superuser.com/questions/9022...egal-filenames

In this method, they use a UNC pathname to the file.
The filename in this case is illegal, because it has a
space character on the end. This can be hard to see
when working on the screen. Even working on the
command line, it might be difficult to notice a
trailing space. The file system doesn't go around
"fixing stuff" either - running CHKDSK wouldn't
remove this trailing space. Once the damage it done,
it's done.

del "\\?\c:\path_to_file_that contains a trailing space.txt "

In your case, you'd want "move" to do the rename. The
double quotes help delineate the command parameters
when you're working in Command Prompt. Here I remove
the spurious trailing blank character, as well as
changing the name.

move "\\?\c:\thisfile " "\\?\c:\thatfile"

Not all available utilities will support Unicode or
stuff outside the ASCII character set. For example, nfi.exe
is a nice utility, but I don't know whether it can deal
with every curveball that the file system throws at it.

The search tool "everything.exe" can create a listing
of all files on a file system, but again, I don't know
what support it's got for every possible situation.

What I'm suggesting at this point, is an examination
of the filename, to be absolutely sure you know
what it is you're trying to edit when renaming.

The trailing space character is pernicious, because it
can cause another file to open instead of the intended
one. Lots of techniques you think might work, end
up dropping the space character and opening the wrong thing.
(So you're not actually working on the file you
think you're working on.) Various softwares, in the
process of validating what you're doing, can actually
prevent fixing stuff. In fact, the trailing space
might even account for the behavior you're seeing
right now, as Explorer should quietly give up
if the rename operation is actually "humping air".
There shouldn't be an error, as magically the source
filename simply doesn't exist at the moment the
rename is attempted. The trailing space gets
stripped off first, and Explorer ends up reaching
for a file that is not there.

*******

You could try "everything.exe" for dumping the filenames.
Since the output is comma separated variable (CSV)
format, a trailing space character should be visible.

http://www.voidtools.com/support/everything/file_lists/

cd /d C:\users\user name\Downloads

Everything.exe -create-filelist C_filenames.txt C:\

notepad C_filenames.txt

Grab the portable version, and extract everything.exe
using 7ZIP or the built-in Explorer ZIP support.

http://www.voidtools.com/downloads/

Note that the numeric fields in the C_filenames.txt
would include creation and modification dates (in
nanoseconds or the like), as well as a size field.
That info is if you're curious about what the other
numbers in the CSV format file represent. I wrote
a little converter once, to convert one of those
timestamp fields into something humans can use.

*******

Maybe a bulk renaming utility will have the GUI
to display the filename for you first ?

You don't have to use the utility, just use it as
a display program.

Even a bulk renamer might not deal with a trailing
space character properly, and may fall into the
same trap as File Explorer. That's why there is
that UNC syntax with the question mark crap.

*******

I've had a case on Windows 10, where a file had
a name that could not be represented on the screen
(I tried to paste it into the newsreader and maybe
four characters could not be represented on screen),
which would make editing certain "invisible" characters
rather difficult. I suspect the characters were
actually "valid" in some sense, but would make
normal work with the files rather difficult. Even
with a font change, I doubt they would be visible.

*******

I have a limited capability to make "rubbish" for the
file system, using Perl. I'm not good at writing
Perl, but I can manage to scrape enough commands
together to make some nasty filenames for test
purposes.

*******

"First you have to stalk your quarry, before you get to eat one"

Paul

  #7  
Old September 4th 18, 01:31 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Big Al[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,588
Default Rename NOT

On 09/03/2018 09:51 PM, EIEIO wrote:
Win 7 Pro all up to date.

Try to rename a file and edits ok but when I hit return it erases the
edit back to the original name.

What the ______ is going on ???

Open a command prompt as admin in that folder.
Try finding a unique set of characters in the name and use a wild card
to delete.
"this file is unique.txt "
even with a space at the end del *unique* would/should remove it.
At least dir *unique* will show that you are not going to select 5 other
files, just the one you want.
  #8  
Old September 4th 18, 01:58 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Stan Brown
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Posts: 2,904
Default Rename NOT

On Tue, 04 Sep 2018 00:16:49 -0400, Paul wrote:
EIEIO wrote:]
Try to rename a file and edits ok but when I hit return it erases the
edit back to the original name.

What the ______ is going on ???


What is it with this game of hide and seek ?

Don't we deserve to know the filename,
so we can experiment with a *similar* setup here ?


Amen, Paul!

Why people expect to have their problem solved yet don't provide
relevant details -- it never ceases to amaze me.

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://BrownMath.com/
http://OakRoadSystems.com/
Shikata ga nai...
  #9  
Old September 4th 18, 02:49 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default Rename NOT

Big Al wrote:
On 09/03/2018 09:51 PM, EIEIO wrote:
Win 7 Pro all up to date.

Try to rename a file and edits ok but when I hit return it erases the
edit back to the original name.

What the ______ is going on ???

Open a command prompt as admin in that folder.
Try finding a unique set of characters in the name and use a wild card
to delete.
"this file is unique.txt "
even with a space at the end del *unique* would/should remove it.
At least dir *unique* will show that you are not going to select 5 other
files, just the one you want.


But what happens first in your example ?

Does the shell parse the *unique* part with
the asterisk wildcards and expand it ? And then
the "del" sees "unique ", tries to delete
it, that code path that removes the trailing
space cuts in, changes "unique " to "unique", and
then "del" is trying to remove "unique" instead
of removing "unique ".

It might depend on whether the shell does the
expansion, or "del" does the expansion, whether
the name is handled correctly.

I think that's why there is the UNC method.
As a means to prevent too much interpretation
before acting on something.

This is a situation that'll take some amount of
experimenting before you fix it.

"Some Microsoft Windows interfaces also accept the "Long UNC":"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Path_%...ing_Convention

And I got to learn a new technical term today :-)
It's where a computer operation requires way too
many backslashes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leanin...hpick_syndrome

Paul
  #10  
Old September 4th 18, 03:48 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Big Al[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,588
Default Rename NOT

On 09/04/2018 09:49 AM, Paul wrote:
Big Al wrote:
On 09/03/2018 09:51 PM, EIEIO wrote:
Win 7 Pro all up to date.

Try to rename a file and edits ok but when I hit return it erases the
edit back to the original name.

What the ______ is going on ???

Open a command prompt as admin in that folder.
Try finding a unique set of characters in the name and use a wild card
to delete.
"this file is unique.txt "
even with a space at the endÂ*Â*Â* del *unique* would/should remove it.
At least dir *unique* will show that you are not going to select 5
other files, just the one you want.


But what happens first in your example ?

Does the shell parse the *unique* part with
the asterisk wildcards and expand it ? And then
the "del" sees "unique ", tries to delete
it, that code path that removes the trailing
space cuts in, changes "unique " to "unique", and
then "del" is trying to remove "unique" instead
of removing "unique ".

It might depend on whether the shell does the
expansion, or "del" does the expansion, whether
the name is handled correctly.

I think that's why there is the UNC method.
As a means to prevent too much interpretation
before acting on something.

This is a situation that'll take some amount of
experimenting before you fix it.

"Some Microsoft Windows interfaces also accept the "Long UNC":"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Path_%...ing_Convention


And I got to learn a new technical term today :-)
It's where a computer operation requires way too
many backslashes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leanin...hpick_syndrome

Â*Â* Paul

Actually I'd boot a live Linux DVD and delete it from Linux. LOL
  #11  
Old September 4th 18, 04:19 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Frank Slootweg
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,226
Default Rename NOT

Big Al wrote:
On 09/03/2018 09:51 PM, EIEIO wrote:
Win 7 Pro all up to date.

Try to rename a file and edits ok but when I hit return it erases the
edit back to the original name.

What the ______ is going on ???

Open a command prompt as admin in that folder.
Try finding a unique set of characters in the name and use a wild card
to delete.


AFAICT, he doesn't want to delete a file, he wants to rename a file
and the rename fails.

This is my interpretation of what he writes:

"I try to rename a file. Entering the new name works OK, but when I
hit Enter, the name gets set back to the original name."

"this file is unique.txt "
even with a space at the end del *unique* would/should remove it.
At least dir *unique* will show that you are not going to select 5 other
files, just the one you want.

  #12  
Old September 4th 18, 04:48 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default Rename NOT

Big Al wrote:

Actually I'd boot a live Linux DVD and delete it from Linux. LOL


It depends on whether a bar bet was involved or not.

It's not as easy as you think today.

Try renaming wuauserv DLL in Win10 C: from Linux.
If you get "I/O Error", don't panic. (At least one
person incorrectly concluded his OS was fubar,
and did a reinstall after seeing the message.
It really isn't "I/O Error", it's
"Operation not supported".)

Paul
  #13  
Old September 4th 18, 05:44 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Mark Lloyd[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,756
Default Rename NOT

On 09/04/2018 07:58 AM, Stan Brown wrote:

[snip]

Why people expect to have their problem solved yet don't provide
relevant details -- it never ceases to amaze me.


I remember someone calling me about a computer problem and just said "it
won't print". I guess the person tried one thing. I never found out what
program that was in, what he did, what printer he had, or what actually
happened. It's hard to solve an unknown problem over the phone.

--
112 days until the winter celebration (Tue Dec 25, 2018 12:00:00 AM for
1 day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"Every pulpit is a pillory, in which stands a hired culprit, defending
the justice of his own imprisonment." [Robert G. Ingersoll]
  #14  
Old September 4th 18, 07:21 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
mick
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 280
Default Rename NOT

Reboot the computer and try again before opening any other programs

On 04/09/2018 07:54:34, EIEIO wrote:
I am Admin on this PC with a logon pwd.
No other users.

10 files of various simple names in a folder in Favorites.
So then I copied the files to a folder C:\Stuff
Same problem, cannot rename.

No error message.
Files are NOT read only or anything else.

Even if there were hidden characters in the filename why not allow rename ?

I have renamed filenames with Chinese symbols no problem.
These have simple text.



EIEIO wrote:
Win 7 Pro all up to date.

Try to rename a file and edits ok but when I hit return it erases the edit
back to the original name.

What the ______ is going on ???


--
mick
  #15  
Old September 4th 18, 07:41 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
EIEIO
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default Rename NOT

The filenames have standard characters.

If I click on it and get it highlighted and copy just the name to
notepad I see the same characters.

Anyway, if I click on it to rename and all characters are highlighted
does that not meant the name is OK per Windows ?

I also used the right-click menu Rename with same results.

 




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