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BackUp for HD Replacement



 
 
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  #31  
Old November 22nd 18, 07:11 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Ken Blake[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,221
Default BackUp for HD Replacement

On Wed, 21 Nov 2018 22:18:35 -0700, "Bill in Co"
surly_curmudgeon@earthlink wrote:

Ken Blake wrote:
On Wed, 21 Nov 2018 17:30:01 -0700, "Bill in Co"
surly_curmudgeon@earthlink wrote:

Ken Blake wrote:
On Wed, 21 Nov 2018 19:23:18 -0400, pjp
wrote:

In article ,
says...

Sooner or later, hopefully much later, my spinning HD will need
replacement with another or a whole new PC.

Is there a way to back up, the current substantial HD apps and data
material, to facilitate this inevitability ?

I don't want to ever be faced with the daunting, if not impossible
task, of reinstalling everything with data.

Probably involve the cloud or other storage device.

Good advice most welcome and thanks.

Backing up your data (e.g files you yourself have created or somehow
else put on the computer) is easy if you keep them in any kind of
organized order on hard disk. Simply copy the files to an external hard
disk big enough to hold them. Mail, passowrds etc. you can export out
of the app to some usable format and then copy tyhose file(s) in
similar manner.

Your installed programs can be a more difficult option to "just" back
them up. In general you can't as they are installed into the operating
system with often many of the required files placed in "Windows" sub-
folders and not simply the the apps installed folder. They usually
don't provide any listing of what those files are. On top of that many
apps get installed to a specific OS, e.g. XP, Vista, 7 or 10 and will
install differnt support files depending upon the os involved. That
means any "restore" must be to the same OS, e,g XP to XP. "portable"
apps are about the only ones can easily just copy and paste into
another system.


I agree with everything you say except for "a more difficult option."
In general it's not more difficult, it's impossible. Most programs
have many associated files and entries within \Windows, in the
registry and elsewhere.

Yes, there's an occasional exception that can be backed up, but they
are few and far between. So it safest to assume that all your programs
can not be backed up, and make other plans for getting them back
should they be lost.

I wasn't sure what you meant by "its impossible to back them up" (??).
Because you just need to make a image or clone backup of your main drive
to do this. IOW, either make an image backup of the C: partition, OR a
clone backup of your C: drive, and I think you'll be all set. And
that's what I do over here (using Acronis True Image), and it sure has
come in handy, on occasion. But maybe I misread something.



Yes, you can back up Windows by imaging or cloning, and if you do
that, yes, you also have a backup of your installed programs. But
you can *not* back up the programs by themselves, and that's what I
meant.


Right. Got it.



Good. Glad I made myself clear.


When I say "make other plans for getting them back should they be
lost," what you suggest (imaging or cloning the drive) is a good
example of such another plan.

Similarly, there is a fair number of people who use a separate
partition for installed programs. They mostly do that because they
think that if they ever have to or want to reinstall Windows, they
will at least keep all their programs. They are wrong, for the reason
I explained above.


And the idea of just trying to back up the programs themselves is a bit of
an enigma to me. :-)



But many people try to do that. Then they are surprised when they
reinstall Windows and the backed up and restored programs don't work.


(well, ok, with one exception: one could choose to
just save the exe program file itself. But - that's about it. :-)



Yep! That's what they do.


And good luck to those (illusively) trying to save the programs on another
partition and just backing that up, whilst forgetting about C: They've
only got part of the story. :-)



Yep!
Ads
  #32  
Old November 22nd 18, 07:13 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Shadow
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,638
Default BackUp for HD Replacement

On Thu, 22 Nov 2018 02:45:16 -0000 (UTC), Boris
wrote:

Shadow wrote in news:k5nbvddndc6l562fmi42qlfiqsuedj5ngk@
4ax.com:

On Wed, 21 Nov 2018 09:31:59 -0500, wrote:

Sooner or later, hopefully much later, my spinning HD will need
replacement with another or a whole new PC.

Is there a way to back up, the current substantial HD apps and data
material, to facilitate this inevitability ?

I don't want to ever be faced with the daunting, if not impossible
task, of reinstalling everything with data.

Probably involve the cloud or other storage device.

Good advice most welcome and thanks.


Aomei Backupper Free has always worked for me.

https://www.backup-utility.com/changelog.html

Choose "standard".

And you'll need a new disk.
[]'s


AOMEItech.com sent me an email with links to:
72-Hour Offers: Save Up To 65%

AOMEI Backupper Professional
Lifetime Upgrades Free
One code is valid for 2 PCs
Now $38.47 Reg $54.99
Save Now


AOMEI Backupper Professional
One code is valid for 2 PCs
Now $31.99 Reg $39.99
Save Now

The links put either selection in an order basket with an order number.
The order is fulfilled by MyCommerce, a Digital River company.


Try the free version first. It might not be what you are
comfortable with.
My motto is try and then buy.
[]'s
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012
  #33  
Old November 22nd 18, 07:43 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
NY
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 586
Default BackUp for HD Replacement

"Ken Blake" wrote in message
...
I wasn't sure what you meant by "its impossible to back them up" (??).
Because you just need to make a image or clone backup of your main
drive
to do this. IOW, either make an image backup of the C: partition, OR
a
clone backup of your C: drive, and I think you'll be all set. And
that's what I do over here (using Acronis True Image), and it sure has
come in handy, on occasion. But maybe I misread something.


Yes, you can back up Windows by imaging or cloning, and if you do
that, yes, you also have a backup of your installed programs. But
you can *not* back up the programs by themselves, and that's what I
meant.


And you only restore the PC to the state it was in when its disc was imaged,
which may be woefully out of date. Since you usually need to boot the PC
into a minimal single-user state to be allowed to copy the whole disc,
sector by sector, it's not something you will want to do as frequently as a
file-and-folder copy of user files.

If you restore the PC to an earlier state from a disc image, you need to
know what subsequent changes you will need to make all over again. Hopefully
those can be handled mostly by keeping a more frequent backup of user files
(documents, email folders, pictures etc) that are applied after the basic
disc image has been restored, together with a note of any system-wide config
changes or additional packages that post-date the disc image.

  #34  
Old November 22nd 18, 08:42 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Bill in Co[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 303
Default BackUp for HD Replacement

Paul wrote:
Bill in Co wrote:
Char Jackson wrote:
On Wed, 21 Nov 2018 17:41:31 -0700, "Bill in Co"
surly_curmudgeon@earthlink wrote:

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
It does take a long time if you're using external drives (I doubt
anyone is still using EIDE these days, for W7+ anyway), and only have
USB2.
You can get external drives with eSATA. If you're still using USB2
for backups, you don't know what you're missing (in terms of speedy
backups and restores). :-)
I liked eSATA, but it seems to have died in the marketplace and has all
but disappeared in favor of USB3 (USB3.1 Gen 1, which used to be called
USB 3.0, and USB 3.1 Gen 2).


Interesting to hear that. I'm still using Windows XP for the most part,
and have a couple of SATA backup drives in enclosures for my backups.

I'm not even sure how well the USB3 approach would work out for a
Windows XP computer in practice. I suppose one could look for USB 3
cards and USB 3 drives in enclosures, but I'm not sure it would really
be worth it. And that's assuming that it all worked out properly on an
XP system (i.e at full USB 3 speed).



Absolutely it's worth it.

I have a USB3 card in this machine, with the NEC/Renesas chip
on it. Since I didn't waste any money on optimization, I
get around 200MB/sec out of it. That beats 30MB/sec for USB2
by a factor of 6.

The backup itself won't run that fast. Stuff may compete with
your I/O. But the I/O rate should easily be higher than 30MB/sec,
so the USB3 does help.

There was a WinXP driver for the NEC chip I got. The mini-CD
that comes with the card, could have WinXP/Vista/Win7 drivers,
but check the advert for proof a newer chip has all three of
those. Win8.1 and Win10 have USB3 already. If Asmedia made
a new chip this year, they might decide not to include anything
but a Win7 driver on a mini-CD in the box.

USB3 solutions come in "classes". If you had a slot with x1
PCI Express Revision 1.1, then the card won't run all that
fast.

If you buy a "USB3.1 Rev2" card, one which has two PCI Express
lanes wired (and the connector shape is an x4), that allows
the max_rate of USB3 (original) to be achieved. You might get
450MB/sec with UASP mode transfers to a USB3 + SSD for example.
That's how a home user retrofits "Intel chipset level performance"
into an older platform (might need to use the video slot).
Such a performance level might be required to run a
Black Magic USB3 video capture box. (The original
version of USB3, is also known as USB3.1 Rev1, while
the 2x faster version is USB3.1 Rev2.) But again,
the backup isn't likely to go that fast.

USB3.2 is for USB C connectors, and has two USB3.1 lanes
on the same connector, for yet another doubling of rate.
There's no evidence anyone is promoting it yet. There's
no "buzz" that I could detect.

The numbers here are intended to indicate the notion of "classes"
of performance. Exact numbers could vary. The DMI bus
is x4 lanes wide, which is why it's not a bottleneck.

USB3 aka USB3.1 Rev1 500MB/sec (minus overhead)
PCIe Rev1.1 180-200MB/sec
PCIe Rev2 400MB/sec
Intel SB DMI 450MB/sec
USB3.1 Rev2 1000MB/sec (scaling as HW buses permit)
USB3.2 on C 2000MB/sec (scaling as HW buses permit)

The backup could do compression, which can slow it down. The
backup is probably running an MD5, so that later "Verify"
operations have a reference value to use. These things might
cap performance at 300MB/sec theoretical best. You can do
CRC32 as a checksum, at 1.5GB/sec, but not too many disk
related things do that. CRC32 is good for network packets.

The UASP driver gives a slight bump in performance level.
That's a "SCSI" stack of some sort. I don't have info
on which OSes support UASP. The SCSI stack has been in
Windows forever, so that part (the base of the stack)
isn't a limiting factor. The SCSI stack is how "foreign
objects" can inject their stack. (You might remember
some SATA cards doing two driver cycles, and one
of the drivers was a SCSI stub.)

Paul


Ooops, I should have made my point more clear. I didn't think USB 3 was
worth it if you've already got eSATA II backup and restore capability, which
is where you really need the speed. But sure, in general, USB 3 is a nice
step up from USB 2 for any other uses and peripherals you might have. And
eSATA II, speed wise, is in the same ballpart as USB 3, so I'm happy. :-)
I can live with the slower speed of USB2 for most other peripherals, but not
backing up my system drive. :-)


  #36  
Old November 22nd 18, 10:30 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default BackUp for HD Replacement

Bill in Co wrote:


Ooops, I should have made my point more clear. I didn't think USB 3 was
worth it if you've already got eSATA II backup and restore capability, which
is where you really need the speed. But sure, in general, USB 3 is a nice
step up from USB 2 for any other uses and peripherals you might have. And
eSATA II, speed wise, is in the same ballpart as USB 3, so I'm happy. :-)
I can live with the slower speed of USB2 for most other peripherals, but not
backing up my system drive. :-)


I can't even buy ESATA cables here.

My ESATA ports are useless without cables.

Whereas I can get USB cables.

To me, ESATA has always been a "dead technology", because
of the lack of impulse buy items I can get my hands on.
I'm not paying $20 shipping for a $3 cable from Timbuktu.

And you might think SCSI was obscure, but there was always
at least one store selling the *$100* SCSI cable I needed :-)
Funny thing about that.

My store has a whole rack of SATA cables. Some SATA cables you'd
never consider buying. But there's not a single ESATA on that rack.
Not even a SATA to ESATA for popping out a slot cover on
the back of the PC.

ESATA gets you to SATA II (300MB/sec), but doesn't cover SATA III
as far as I know. It could be, it's too hard to get the longest
cable run to work at the higher rate. USB can go faster than that.

I think there are some benches of USB3.1 Rev.2 at 900MB/sec or so,
with an M.2 as the target. USB can go a bit faster than ESATA,
but most people will be using regular HDD for backups. We only
had one newsgroup participant who was "pure SSD". He's passed on.

Paul
  #37  
Old November 22nd 18, 10:38 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default BackUp for HD Replacement

Shadow wrote:
On Thu, 22 Nov 2018 02:45:16 -0000 (UTC), Boris
wrote:

Shadow wrote in news:k5nbvddndc6l562fmi42qlfiqsuedj5ngk@
4ax.com:

On Wed, 21 Nov 2018 09:31:59 -0500, wrote:

Sooner or later, hopefully much later, my spinning HD will need
replacement with another or a whole new PC.

Is there a way to back up, the current substantial HD apps and data
material, to facilitate this inevitability ?

I don't want to ever be faced with the daunting, if not impossible
task, of reinstalling everything with data.

Probably involve the cloud or other storage device.

Good advice most welcome and thanks.
Aomei Backupper Free has always worked for me.

https://www.backup-utility.com/changelog.html

Choose "standard".

And you'll need a new disk.
[]'s

AOMEItech.com sent me an email with links to:
72-Hour Offers: Save Up To 65%

AOMEI Backupper Professional
Lifetime Upgrades Free
One code is valid for 2 PCs
Now $38.47 Reg $54.99
Save Now


AOMEI Backupper Professional
One code is valid for 2 PCs
Now $31.99 Reg $39.99
Save Now

The links put either selection in an order basket with an order number.
The order is fulfilled by MyCommerce, a Digital River company.


Try the free version first. It might not be what you are
comfortable with.
My motto is try and then buy.
[]'s


Exactly. There's lots of trials out there, or limited-function
freebies. Generally speaking, you should be able to get
"full backup" functionality for free. More refined functions,
like say incrementals, that costs money, so you'd have a limited
trial for something like that.

This will give some idea of things that are duds.

https://www.raymond.cc/blog/10-comme...ed-comparison/

My favorite whipping-boy is:

DriveImage XML

as I noticed it was slow when I tried it out, well before
reading the above article. If you need a benchmark of "how
bad could it get", that might be a place to start. I think that
uses VSS shadow copies like the rest, but for some reason
(maybe it's the file by file nature), it just seemed pretty
slow.

Paul
  #38  
Old November 22nd 18, 11:16 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Bill in Co[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 303
Default BackUp for HD Replacement

Paul wrote:
Bill in Co wrote:


Ooops, I should have made my point more clear. I didn't think USB 3
was worth it if you've already got eSATA II backup and restore
capability, which is where you really need the speed. But sure, in
general, USB 3 is a nice step up from USB 2 for any other uses and
peripherals you might have. And eSATA II, speed wise, is in the same
ballpart as USB 3, so I'm happy. :-) I can live with the slower speed
of USB2 for most other peripherals, but not backing up my system drive.
:-)


I can't even buy ESATA cables here.

My ESATA ports are useless without cables.

Whereas I can get USB cables.

To me, ESATA has always been a "dead technology", because
of the lack of impulse buy items I can get my hands on.
I'm not paying $20 shipping for a $3 cable from Timbuktu.

And you might think SCSI was obscure, but there was always
at least one store selling the *$100* SCSI cable I needed :-)
Funny thing about that.

My store has a whole rack of SATA cables. Some SATA cables you'd
never consider buying. But there's not a single ESATA on that rack.
Not even a SATA to ESATA for popping out a slot cover on
the back of the PC.

ESATA gets you to SATA II (300MB/sec), but doesn't cover SATA III
as far as I know. It could be, it's too hard to get the longest
cable run to work at the higher rate. USB can go faster than that.

I think there are some benches of USB3.1 Rev.2 at 900MB/sec or so,
with an M.2 as the target. USB can go a bit faster than ESATA,
but most people will be using regular HDD for backups. We only
had one newsgroup participant who was "pure SSD". He's passed on.

Paul


Yes, I've got two older Vantec NexStar eSATA HD enclosures that I got some
time ago on Amazon. I rarely expect to get anything from the local stores
here (then again, I don't live in a huge city anymore), so I just get what I
need from Amazon, and it only takes 2 days to get it here (with Prime).
That works pretty well for my "impulse buying". And if that fails, there's
always eBay, as a source. :-)

And at least SATA II (300 MB/sec) is in the same ballpark league as USB 3
for speed. (Granted that USB 3 can be twice, or if you're lucky, possibly
three times faster than SATA II (as an outlier).


  #39  
Old November 23rd 18, 07:41 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Mark Lloyd[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,756
Default BackUp for HD Replacement

On 11/22/18 3:30 PM, Paul wrote:

[snip]

I can't even buy ESATA cables here.

My ESATA ports are useless without cables.

Whereas I can get USB cables.

To me, ESATA has always been a "dead technology", because
of the lack of impulse buy items I can get my hands on.
I'm not paying $20 shipping for a $3 cable from Timbuktu.


I got mine from Amazon.com. Mainly as a way to make sure the eSATA port
on my computer works (it does). I have used it once, when upgrading the
HD. USB would have worked. Most of my backups are done with USB drives.

--
32 days until the winter celebration (Tue Dec 25, 2018 12:00:00 AM for 1
day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"Nothing can be more contrary to religion and the clergy than reason and
common sense." -- Voltaire
  #40  
Old November 23rd 18, 08:22 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Bill in Co[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 303
Default BackUp for HD Replacement

Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 11/22/18 3:30 PM, Paul wrote:

[snip]

I can't even buy ESATA cables here.

My ESATA ports are useless without cables.

Whereas I can get USB cables.

To me, ESATA has always been a "dead technology", because
of the lack of impulse buy items I can get my hands on.
I'm not paying $20 shipping for a $3 cable from Timbuktu.


I got mine from Amazon.com. Mainly as a way to make sure the eSATA port
on my computer works (it does). I have used it once, when upgrading the
HD. USB would have worked. Most of my backups are done with USB drives.


Then I assume your backups are pretty small (if you're using USB 2), and not
on the order of 50 GB. :-) Yup, Amazon is really handy (at least for us
over here in the states - not sure how it works elsewhere, and if they have
that 2 day shipping with Prime).


  #41  
Old November 23rd 18, 10:04 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default BackUp for HD Replacement

Bill in Co wrote:
Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 11/22/18 3:30 PM, Paul wrote:

[snip]

I can't even buy ESATA cables here.

My ESATA ports are useless without cables.

Whereas I can get USB cables.

To me, ESATA has always been a "dead technology", because
of the lack of impulse buy items I can get my hands on.
I'm not paying $20 shipping for a $3 cable from Timbuktu.

I got mine from Amazon.com. Mainly as a way to make sure the eSATA port
on my computer works (it does). I have used it once, when upgrading the
HD. USB would have worked. Most of my backups are done with USB drives.


Then I assume your backups are pretty small (if you're using USB 2), and not
on the order of 50 GB. :-) Yup, Amazon is really handy (at least for us
over here in the states - not sure how it works elsewhere, and if they have
that 2 day shipping with Prime).


Due to a bait and switch with my first attempted
Amazon transaction, I won't be doing business with
them... ever. It took a month to get my money back.

Paul
  #42  
Old November 23rd 18, 10:51 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Char Jackson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,449
Default BackUp for HD Replacement

On Fri, 23 Nov 2018 16:04:49 -0500, Paul wrote:

Bill in Co wrote:
Then I assume your backups are pretty small (if you're using USB 2), and not
on the order of 50 GB. :-) Yup, Amazon is really handy (at least for us
over here in the states - not sure how it works elsewhere, and if they have
that 2 day shipping with Prime).


Due to a bait and switch with my first attempted
Amazon transaction, I won't be doing business with
them... ever. It took a month to get my money back.


Was Amazon the seller, or was it a third party selling through Amazon? I
know it shouldn't matter, but in my experience, it does. I try to
purchase through Amazon itself, rather than a seller.

I place orders through Amazon about 1-3 times a week and I haven't had a
bad experience yet, including a handful of extremely smooth and easy
returns.

Pros: fast delivery, frequently same day if I order before noon. Some
items can be delivered in 30-60 minutes, although to a storage location
(UPS store) rather than to my house. Also, very easy returns in the rare
case where something doesn't meet my expectations, and of course the A-Z
selection availability.

Cons: Prime costs money, but I break even very quickly with the free
shipping. Also, in reading recent reviews of high-end Intel CPUs,
apparently there's a black market industry of buying a product, swapping
it out and sticking the old part in the box, then returning it for
credit. The next person then gets to purchase the result. I haven't seen
that, but it would tick me off.

From personal experience, and from reading countless reviews, I haven't
heard of any bait-and-switch experiences until now.

--

Char Jackson
  #43  
Old November 23rd 18, 11:15 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Bill in Co[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 303
Default BackUp for HD Replacement

Paul wrote:
Bill in Co wrote:
Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 11/22/18 3:30 PM, Paul wrote:

[snip]

I can't even buy ESATA cables here.

My ESATA ports are useless without cables.

Whereas I can get USB cables.

To me, ESATA has always been a "dead technology", because
of the lack of impulse buy items I can get my hands on.
I'm not paying $20 shipping for a $3 cable from Timbuktu.
I got mine from Amazon.com. Mainly as a way to make sure the eSATA port
on my computer works (it does). I have used it once, when upgrading the
HD. USB would have worked. Most of my backups are done with USB drives.


Then I assume your backups are pretty small (if you're using USB 2), and
not on the order of 50 GB. :-) Yup, Amazon is really handy (at least
for us over here in the states - not sure how it works elsewhere, and if
they have that 2 day shipping with Prime).


Due to a bait and switch with my first attempted
Amazon transaction, I won't be doing business with
them... ever. It took a month to get my money back.

Paul


Sorry to hear that. I haven't had that experience yet, and I've bought a
lot on Amazon, and so I am a frequent flyer there. :-) So I'd say you
just got a bad one-off. Maybe what Char said happened to you, though?
I'm not saying you can't have a bad experience with Amazon (and I've had a
couple with eBay), but when it's all said and done, I can't imagine living
without the convenience of both Amazon (and its 2 day deliveries) and eBay.


  #44  
Old November 23rd 18, 11:22 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Ken Blake[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,221
Default BackUp for HD Replacement

On Fri, 23 Nov 2018 15:51:38 -0600, Char Jackson
wrote:

On Fri, 23 Nov 2018 16:04:49 -0500, Paul wrote:

Bill in Co wrote:
Then I assume your backups are pretty small (if you're using USB 2), and not
on the order of 50 GB. :-) Yup, Amazon is really handy (at least for us
over here in the states - not sure how it works elsewhere, and if they have
that 2 day shipping with Prime).


Due to a bait and switch with my first attempted
Amazon transaction, I won't be doing business with
them... ever. It took a month to get my money back.


Was Amazon the seller, or was it a third party selling through Amazon? I
know it shouldn't matter, but in my experience, it does. I try to
purchase through Amazon itself, rather than a seller.

I place orders through Amazon about 1-3 times a week and I haven't had a
bad experience yet, including a handful of extremely smooth and easy
returns.



I thought I ordered from Amazon a lot, but it's not as much as
you--maybe once or twice a month.

I had only one bad experience. I had ordered something that was coming
from a third party in China. But despite the expected delivery date
arriving, the package never did. But it was quickly and easily
resolved, and I got my money back.
  #45  
Old November 24th 18, 08:51 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
Char Jackson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,449
Default BackUp for HD Replacement

On Fri, 23 Nov 2018 15:22:56 -0700, Ken Blake
wrote:

On Fri, 23 Nov 2018 15:51:38 -0600, Char Jackson
wrote:

On Fri, 23 Nov 2018 16:04:49 -0500, Paul wrote:

Bill in Co wrote:
Then I assume your backups are pretty small (if you're using USB 2), and not
on the order of 50 GB. :-) Yup, Amazon is really handy (at least for us
over here in the states - not sure how it works elsewhere, and if they have
that 2 day shipping with Prime).

Due to a bait and switch with my first attempted
Amazon transaction, I won't be doing business with
them... ever. It took a month to get my money back.


Was Amazon the seller, or was it a third party selling through Amazon? I
know it shouldn't matter, but in my experience, it does. I try to
purchase through Amazon itself, rather than a seller.

I place orders through Amazon about 1-3 times a week and I haven't had a
bad experience yet, including a handful of extremely smooth and easy
returns.



I thought I ordered from Amazon a lot, but it's not as much as
you--maybe once or twice a month.

I had only one bad experience. I had ordered something that was coming
from a third party in China. But despite the expected delivery date
arriving, the package never did. But it was quickly and easily
resolved, and I got my money back.


I'm glad to hear that it worked out. Without further anecdotes, I'm
thinking Paul's bad experience was probably an anomaly.

--

Char Jackson
 




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