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#16
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No Such Interface Supported
On 3/4/19 7:40 PM, Sam Hill wrote:
On Mon, 04 Mar 2019 19:11:45 -0800, T wrote: On 3/4/19 6:38 PM, Sam Hill wrote: On Mon, 04 Mar 2019 17:55:57 -0800, T wrote: For those that need to run 24/7, doing a reboot in the night clears them up. Think about what you just wrote: "For those that need to run *24/7*,". How does a reboot fit into that? Who is processing something 100% of the time? The remote server that sits waiting for world-wide salespersons to log business transactions... Geez, think beyond the mom-n-pop people you serve for once. You pick a stop when nothing is expected to be happening, like when all the remote loggers have finally gone to sleep, etc.. And just let everyone know when the reboot will occure. What if the loggers are in Denver, Dubai, and Dingzhou? My computer has been running since the last neighborhood power failure, 67 days, 12 hours, 10 minutes ago. A Windows machine? No. (Now you're going to complain that 'this is a Windows group' - just know I was picking on your silly comment about what "24/7" is.) That is the longest I have seen! 12 days and one customer could not type, or send eMail, and Chrome's windows shimmered. "A Windows machine?" g Maybe it's okay in your little world that not being able to run more than a few days is sufficient. By change do your have hibernate/sleep set? Uhhhh. Sam, I was talking to a home user. Please do not go off on a tangent. |
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#17
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No Such Interface Supported
On 3/4/19 7:47 PM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
Baloney Todd, Last place I worked before I retired I had 2 windows machines running for about two and a half years 24/7/365 with no shut downs or reboots, They ran my security and door card reader systems and where not allowed to shut down, they were critical systems. You are spreadingÂ*FUD,Â*andÂ*itsÂ*notÂ*appreciated. Rene Seriously Rene. Your computers ran a single app. and from that you surmised that I am spreading FUD? I am curious about your system. In 2-1/2 years you never had a power hit? What kind of power protection were you running. What version of Windows did you run? Was it embedded Windows? Did you have Internet access? Did you run any other apps on it? Did you have updates turned off? Did you have sleep / hibernate enabled? |
#18
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No Such Interface Supported
On 3/4/19 9:29 PM, Paul wrote:
Sam Hill wrote: On Mon, 04 Mar 2019 19:11:45 -0800, T wrote: On 3/4/19 6:38 PM, Sam Hill wrote: On Mon, 04 Mar 2019 17:55:57 -0800, T wrote: For those that need to run 24/7, doing a reboot in the night clears them up. Think about what you just wrote:Â* "For those that need to run *24/7*,". How does a reboot fit into that? Who is processing something 100% of the time? The remote server that sits waiting for world-wide salespersons to log business transactions... Geez, think beyond the mom-n-pop people you serve for once. You pick a stop when nothing is expected to be happening, like when all the remote loggers have finally gone to sleep, etc..Â* And just let everyone know when the reboot will occure. What if the loggers are in Denver, Dubai, and Dingzhou? My computer has been running since the last neighborhood power failure, 67 days, 12 hours, 10 minutes ago. A Windows machine? No. (Now you're going to complain that 'this is a Windows group' - just know I was picking on your silly comment about what "24/7" is.) That is the longest I have seen!Â*Â* 12 days and one customer could not type, or send eMail, and Chrome's windows shimmered. "A Windows machine?"Â*Â* g Maybe it's okay in your little world that not being able to run more than a few days is sufficient. By change do your have hibernate/sleep set? You'd be running a redundant system with some sort of fail-over, such that with a pair of machines, one could be rebooted while the other takes over. The only problem with schemes like that, is when they get into a loop. One evening at work, a "pair" like that, swapped roles every 90 seconds, affecting service, so I had to page the on-call IT guy to put a stop to it. Char could probably tell you how to set something like that up. And there have been implementations like that, which are run by idiots. My old ISP insisted on some sort of brain-dead DNS scheme, where about 30 pairs of machines provided DNS. And they would *reboot both machines in a pair* on the same minute at night, knocking out DNS service to the customers on that particular pair, for around 15 minutes. Talk about strange designs... Why have redundancy, then reboot both machines in the pair at the same time ? Boggles the mind. Why not have... ten machines in parallel, and boot all ten at the same time :-/ You know ya wanna. My current ISP has "a single pair", for which the provisioning is all hidden. (You cannot discover there are 30 pairs of machines over time, by studying the DNS addresses it hands out over DHCP.) You cannot see what goes on, inside the ISP building. I suspect a kind of "virtualized" DNS scheme, which presents two addresses, but has some unknown level of "proper" redundancy that we cannot see. That setup has *never* gone down, that I could detect. The Space Shuttle had five computers, and majority voter logic. It ran two sets of software. It had a pair of machines on each software set. And the fifth machine was some sort of tie breaker. So there are people who have made reliable solutions before, that actually work... They obviously didn't hire any staff from my old ISP. If my old ISP was running the Shuttle, they'd pick the landing cycle as the time to reboot all five of them. Â*Â* Paul Hi Paul, Fascinating. I never worked in a big data center, so I never have seen the redundant systems and failovers they use. There is some real thought put into them. At one point (I worked on satellites) I was aware of how deep space probes constantly checked their firmware and reinstalled themselves if they found anything out of place. It was fascinating. You probably could write a paper on it off the top of your head. I have enough trouble keeping my small business customers and home uses out of trouble. Some of my home customer have more complex networks than my business customers. When I was younger, I worked in Aerospace. We were all about the same age, wore the same cloths and ties, work in cinder block building with no windows, worked behind closed locking doors. The work was fun, but the environment was somewhat dehumanizing. Now-a-days, I get to meet my customer's families, including their pets. A lot of my small business customers bring their dogs to work with them. Quite often, there will be a line item on my invoices "play with dog -- no charge". The customer will call me laughing! It is much more humanizing. -T |
#19
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No Such Interface Supported
On Mon, 4 Mar 2019 17:55:57 -0800, T wrote:
For those that need to run 24/7, doing a reboot in the night clears them up. LOL You were joking, right? Scheduling a reboot pretty much destroys the whole 24/7 thing. -- Char Jackson |
#20
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No Such Interface Supported
On Mon, 4 Mar 2019 19:11:45 -0800, T wrote:
On 3/4/19 6:38 PM, Sam Hill wrote: On Mon, 04 Mar 2019 17:55:57 -0800, T wrote: For those that need to run 24/7, doing a reboot in the night clears them up. Think about what you just wrote: "For those that need to run *24/7*,". How does a reboot fit into that? Who is processing something 100% of the time? You pick a stop when nothing is expected to be happening, like when all the remote loggers have finally gone to sleep, etc.. And just let everyone know when the reboot will occure. My computer has been running since the last neighborhood power failure, 67 days, 12 hours, 10 minutes ago. A Windows machine? That is the longest I have seen! Dude, how do you take money from people when you know so little about Windows? If you want to reboot your own PCs on a nightly basis, that's fine, but please don't try to tell folks that they somehow have to. Windows should run almost indefinitely. I say almost because sooner or later you're going to install an update or an application that wants a reboot, but that's about it. I try to reboot every 3-4 months but nothing bad happens if I put it off and 4 months turns into 5 or 6. Try it sometime and see for yourself. Then you can stop spreading FUD. -- Char Jackson |
#21
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No Such Interface Supported
On Mon, 4 Mar 2019 21:47:24 -0600, Rene Lamontagne
wrote: On 03/04/2019 9:11 PM, T wrote: On 3/4/19 6:38 PM, Sam Hill wrote: On Mon, 04 Mar 2019 17:55:57 -0800, T wrote: For those that need to run 24/7, doing a reboot in the night clears them up. Think about what you just wrote:* "For those that need to run *24/7*,". How does a reboot fit into that? Who is processing something 100% of the time?* You pick a stop when nothing is expected to be happening, like when all the remote loggers have finally gone to sleep, etc..* And just let everyone know when the reboot will occure. My computer has been running since the last neighborhood power failure, 67 days, 12 hours, 10 minutes ago. A Windows machine? That is the longest I have seen!** 12 days and one customer could not type, or send eMail, and Chrome's windows shimmered. By change do your have hibernate/sleep set? Baloney Todd, Last place I worked before I retired I had 2 windows machines running for about two and a half years 24/7/365 with no shut downs or reboots, They ran my security and door card reader systems and where not allowed to shut down, they were critical systems. You are spreading FUD, and its not appreciated. FUD might be central to his business model. As I've said before, I feel badly for the people who hand him money. I suspect that they aren't getting what they think they're paying for. -- Char Jackson |
#22
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24/7 and keyboard funny (was: No Such Interface Supported)
In message , T writes:
On 3/4/19 5:40 PM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: In message , T writes: [] Think about your issue.* Sounds like you are running it 24/7. If by "your issue", you mean my keyboard funny, that comes and goes - as I've said, I think it's some sequence of actions I do that triggers it and clears it, but I haven't worked out what - whether the machine has been running one day or several. Other than that funny, the machine seems happy with the 24'7: I'm pretty sure I've had it do more than a week, possibly getting on for two. You can get away with that with Linux, sometimes Mac, but not Windows. I seem to. [] Hi John, That is not what you are describing. I see tons of Windows machines that have not been rebooted in days having weird symptoms. What you describe it typically one of the symptoms: keyboard acting weird. 1. I am pretty sure I've had it during the first day after a restart; certainly, the _incidence_ does not seem to _increase_ the more days I leave the machine running. 2. It seems to be triggered by something I do, though I haven't _quite_ pinned down what yet (though I have a strong feeling it's some Ctrl-key combination); it doesn't just happen. 3. By fiddling about (switching to Notepad+, pressing various keys, etc. - I haven't isolated anything specific yet) I can make the problem go away; it's been many weeks, months I think, since it's been so bad that I've had to do a reboot. That doesn't sound, to me, as if it's in any way due to long up time. 4. You describe "keyboard acting weird." Would you care to give more detail? When I first asked about this a few months ago, I don't think anyone else had quite the same behaviour. [] -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf science is not intended to be foolproof. Science is about crawling toward the truth over time. - Scott Adams, 2015-2-2 |
#23
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24/7 and keyboard funny
On 3/5/19 2:04 AM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
4. You describe "keyboard acting weird." Would you care to give more detail? When I first asked about this a few months ago, I don't think anyoneÂ*elseÂ*hadÂ*quiteÂ*theÂ*sameÂ*behaviour. Hi John, Arrow keys now working, ctrlC & V not working, that sort of thing. Does rebooting fix it? Can you duplicate the problem in safe mode? When you finally figure this out, would you post back for us nosey people? -T |
#24
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24/7 and keyboard funny
In message , T writes:
On 3/5/19 2:04 AM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: 4. You describe "keyboard acting weird." Would you care to give more detail? When I first asked about this a few months ago, I don't think anyone*else*had*quite*the*same*behaviour. Hi John, Arrow keys now working, ctrlC & V not working, that sort of thing. No, that's not it. When I get the fault, it's as if a Ctrl or sometimes shift key is stuck down - at least that's the best description I can give of it. Arrow key presses are registered - but, say, if the cursor is in text, it moves by (and sometimes highlights) a word at a time rather than a letter. Sometimes the letter keys do nothing, except that (say) S brings up the Save dialogue. Does sound like a faulty keyboard - but the thing that mitigates most against that being the cause, is that different things seem to have different sensitivities: usually (though not always), if I switch to Notepad+, I can type as normal. (Sometimes I even resort to switching to Notepad+, typing the text I want, copying it, switching back to [e. g.] my news client, and pasting. [The "mouse" - trackpad - works fine.]) Sometimes switching to Notepad+ and typing a character or two suffices - I can switch back to the other application and typing is back. It's a weird one! Does rebooting fix it? Yes, always. Usually messing about fixes it, so I tend to do that rather than rebooting, as it's quicker. Can you duplicate the problem in safe mode? Don't know. Since I don't know what sets it off, I'm not sure I'd be able to tell. When you finally figure this out, would you post back for us nosey people? If I remember, sure! (Even if it's something embarrassing!) -T -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf Science isn't about being right every time, or even most of the time. It is about being more right over time and fixing what it got wrong. - Scott Adams, 2015-2-2 |
#25
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24/7 and keyboard funny
"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote
| No, that's not it. When I get the fault, it's as if a Ctrl or sometimes | shift key is stuck down - at least that's the best description I can | give of it. Arrow key presses are registered - but, say, if the cursor | is in text, it moves by (and sometimes highlights) a word at a time | rather than a letter. Sometimes the letter keys do nothing, except that | (say) S brings up the Save dialogue. | | Does sound like a faulty keyboard - but the thing that mitigates most | against that being the cause, is that different things seem to have | different sensitivities: usually (though not always), if I switch to | Notepad+, I can type as normal. (Sometimes I even resort to switching to | Notepad+, typing the text I want, copying it, switching back to [e. g.] | my news client, and pasting. [The "mouse" - trackpad - works fine.]) | Sometimes switching to Notepad+ and typing a character or two suffices - | I can switch back to the other application and typing is back. It's a | weird one! It might be worth checking for hooks. If a program needs to be able to get system keyboard messages it will install a hook -- normally from a DLL. I use one for an accessibility library I wrote, to provide notification of keystrokes in an event, so that each key name can be spoken aloud for blind people. Imagine an old-style bucket brigade. The water bucket gets passed along to the end. It doesn't really matter how many people are in the line as long as each does their job of passing the bucket along. A hook allows constant monitoring. It could be used by malware, anti-virus, or anything that provides a service needing to monitor mouse and/or keyboard. I don't know of anyplace to actually check for running hooks, but you could try stopping various things, including services that might need a hook, and see what happens. If the hook library is faulty -- not always passing the message along -- that could possibly create symptoms like what you're seeing. The main suspect to my mind would be malware or anti-malware. (Like cops and robbers, sometimes it's hard to tell the difference. I assume you've tried a different keyboard. I know you said it's software related, but you never know. Coincidence can sometimes mislead. |
#26
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No Such Interface Supported
On Mon, 04 Mar 2019 22:14:56 -0800, T wrote:
On 3/4/19 7:40 PM, Sam Hill wrote: On Mon, 04 Mar 2019 19:11:45 -0800, T wrote: On 3/4/19 6:38 PM, Sam Hill wrote: On Mon, 04 Mar 2019 17:55:57 -0800, T wrote: For those that need to run 24/7, doing a reboot in the night clears them up. Think about what you just wrote: "For those that need to run *24/7*,". How does a reboot fit into that? Who is processing something 100% of the time? The remote server that sits waiting for world-wide salespersons to log business transactions... Geez, think beyond the mom-n-pop people you serve for once. You pick a stop when nothing is expected to be happening, like when all the remote loggers have finally gone to sleep, etc.. And just let everyone know when the reboot will occure. What if the loggers are in Denver, Dubai, and Dingzhou? My computer has been running since the last neighborhood power failure, 67 days, 12 hours, 10 minutes ago. A Windows machine? No. (Now you're going to complain that 'this is a Windows group' - just know I was picking on your silly comment about what "24/7" is.) That is the longest I have seen! 12 days and one customer could not type, or send eMail, and Chrome's windows shimmered. "A Windows machine?" g Maybe it's okay in your little world that not being able to run more than a few days is sufficient. Uhhhh. Sam, I was talking to a home user. Please do not go off on a tangent. Yeah, I suppose it was a bit of a tangent. But your statement that "24/7" equates to "reboot each night" grabbed my immediate attention. As Char stated, that was just wrong! |
#27
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No Such Interface Supported
T wrote:
On 3/4/19 7:47 PM, Rene Lamontagne wrote: Baloney Todd, Last place I worked before I retired I had 2 windows machines running for about two and a half years 24/7/365 with no shut downs or reboots, They ran my security and door card reader systems and where not allowed to shut down, they were critical systems. You are spreading FUD, and its not appreciated. Rene Seriously Rene. Your computers ran a single app. and from that you surmised that I am spreading FUD? I am curious about your system. In 2-1/2 years you never had a power hit? What kind of power protection were you running. What version of Windows did you run? Was it embedded Windows? Did you have Internet access? Did you run any other apps on it? Did you have updates turned off? Did you have sleep / hibernate enabled? We had a machine at work with an uptime of 2 years. And knowing how often the power used to drop to that site, it got some of the staff thinking "this cannot possibly be right". The power at the time, would drop maybe once a week due to lightning storms (summer months). How could a machine stay up for two years, when all the computers around it, dropped once a week ? It seemed like a miracle, like finding an image of Jesus in your morning toast. (It was a Unix box, and presumably had an uptime command.) Then, someone decided to check where the power plug was situated. And it turned out, that computer was plugged into the emergency lighting system rail :-) The power source that runs all those red Exit signs. The building design, had that power bussed throughout the building. So if you want a recipe for fun at work, give that a try. I'm pretty sure that outlet is specifically marked as not for general consumption, but some rocket scientist probably thought this would be funny. And, it was... Paul |
#28
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24/7 and keyboard funny
Mayayana wrote:
I don't know of anyplace to actually check for running hooks Would Sysinternals "handle.exe" work ? It will tell you what files are open, and it's possible other device types might be detected that way. I think I tried to debug why "my modem was always busy" using Handle. Process Explorer has a copy of Handle as a menu entry. Whereas the original "handle.exe" was a standalone app. On Linux/Unix, the equivalent is "lsof" which can tell you which files are open. So this is a common feature/debug thing. It would be either that, or look for an application known to detect keyloggers. Maybe that would know. Paul |
#29
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No Such Interface Supported
On Tue, 05 Mar 2019 03:58:27 -0600, Char Jackson
wrote: On Mon, 4 Mar 2019 19:11:45 -0800, T wrote: On 3/4/19 6:38 PM, Sam Hill wrote: On Mon, 04 Mar 2019 17:55:57 -0800, T wrote: For those that need to run 24/7, doing a reboot in the night clears them up. Think about what you just wrote: "For those that need to run *24/7*,". How does a reboot fit into that? Who is processing something 100% of the time? You pick a stop when nothing is expected to be happening, like when all the remote loggers have finally gone to sleep, etc.. And just let everyone know when the reboot will occure. My computer has been running since the last neighborhood power failure, 67 days, 12 hours, 10 minutes ago. A Windows machine? That is the longest I have seen! Dude, how do you take money from people when you know so little about Windows? If you want to reboot your own PCs on a nightly basis, that's fine, but please don't try to tell folks that they somehow have to. Windows should run almost indefinitely. I say almost because sooner or later you're going to install an update or an application that wants a reboot, but that's about it. I try to reboot every 3-4 months but nothing bad happens if I put it off and 4 months turns into 5 or 6. Try it sometime and see for yourself. Then you can stop spreading FUD. I'll add my experience to yours. Both my machine and my wife's run continuously without ever rebooting unless it's required by an update (or we're leaving home for a couple of weeks on vacation). I've never timed exactly how long it runs before an update (to Windows or something else) that requires rebooting, but my guess is that it's usually around a month or so. That experience is currently with machines running Windows 10, but it goes back to Windows XP, Vista, 7, 8, and 8.1. |
#30
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No Such Interface Supported
On 03/05/2019 3:06 AM, T wrote:
On 3/4/19 7:47 PM, Rene Lamontagne wrote: Baloney Todd, Last place I worked before I retired I had 2 windows machines running for about two and a half years 24/7/365 with no shut downs or reboots, They ran my security and door card reader systems and where not allowed to shut down, they were critical systems. You are spreadingÂ*FUD,Â*andÂ*itsÂ*notÂ*appreciated. Rene Seriously Rene. Your computers ran a single app. and from that you surmised that I am spreading FUD? I am curious about your system. In 2-1/2 years you never had a power hit?Â* What kind of power protection were you running. An 1800 watt UPS Worth about $1400.00 What version of Windows did you run? I do believe it was XP if I remember correctly Was it embedded Windows? No Did you have Internet access? No Did you run any other apps on it? Only backup Applications. Did you have updates turned off? No internet, Thus no updates Did you have sleep / hibernate enabled? No, these systems had to run 24/7 Rene |
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