Why is Microsoft wasting time on this junk OS

In article , Mayayana
wrote:

You can get a taste of Apple's sleaze and control if
you look up the latest app idiocy called "Hey". It's been
in the news for the past week. $100/year
gets you email filters. They had a standoff with Apple
because Apple wants a cut of not only the sale but also
the "in app purchases". The Heysters refused to pay.
Somehow it got ironed out. Apparently Apple gave in.
Or maybe they just decided that Hey was such a ridiculous
idea that it's sure to die soon. Hey promises privacy.
That's a good one.

it's not as simple as you make it out to be. both apple and basecamp
have valid points, however the true motivation was an extremely well
crafted publicity stunt. had it never happened, few people would have
even heard of hey (which is a really *stupid* name).

Can people bypass Apple?
Yes. That's what jailbreaking means. It's a hack that
one usually pays others to do. Then, of course, you're
out of Apple's good graces, so good luck if you need
help. So can someone use unauthorized apps? In theory,
yes.

no need to jailbreak, nor does one need to pay to do so if someone does
want to do that.

Just as in theory one can run Win10 without it
getting updated. There are ways to accomplish it. But
it's not a realistic option for most people.

turning off automatic updates is very easy on macos or ios:
https://larryjordan.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/AutoUp03.jpg

And for virtually
all developers, it's a pay-to-play scenario, if you can
even get your software into their store. But there are
plenty of people willing to pay.

you clearly don't understand how it works.

Apple prioritizes their control in all areas. The ifixit site
often gives them low ratings on repairability as well, citing
tricks like embedding the innards of their notebooks in
plastic resin to make them unrepairable. Apple even
invented their own irregular screw head design, to thwart
people.

it ain't just apple.

https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Micr...Teardown/92915
#s173135
Microsoft Surface Laptop Teardown
....
Verdict: The Surface Laptop is not a laptop. It¹s a glue-filled
monstrosity. There is nothing about it that is upgradable or
long-lasting, and it literally can¹t be opened without destroying
it. (Show us the procedure, Microsoft, we¹d love to be wrong.)

https://twitter.com/thekelseaweber/status/1052998814993240064
Meet the $999 laptop you can't fix or upgrade. Buy the @surface
Laptop 2 and you'll spend another $450 in out-of-warranty "repair
fees" when your battery dies in a couple years. This is what a 0/10
device looks like: http://bit.ly/2S0Hloa (1/2)

You can find out all about that ugly story by searching for
something like: apple right to repair

There are pros and cons there. Apple is a sleazeball
operation that exploits its customers and runs a monopoly.

with ~10% worldwide mac market share and ~20% worldwide iphone market
share, apple can't hardly be called a monopoly of anything.

Every aspect of their business is despicable: Hiding
money offshore to avoid taxes.

apple does not avoid paying taxes.

what they do is minimize what they owe, what every other company and
individual taxpayer does.

keep in mind that they are an international company with more than half
their revenue from *outside* the usa.

Building their devices with
virtual slave labor....

those same factories build products for acer, dell hp, microsoft, sony
and many others.

apple is working to *improve* conditions there. what have those other
companies done? (hint: nothing).

When an interviewer asked Timmy Cook
about making iPhones in the US he evaded the question
and pulled a Mr. Rogers, saying something like, "iPhones
are made by the whole world." He explained that the various
parts come from all over, characterizing Apple's exploitation
as some kind of sweetie pie multiculturalism.

it's not an evasion. various parts are made just about everywhere else,
with only the final assembly done mostly in china and some in india.

They're very good at maintaining a public image as
family-friendly nice guys who specialize in rainbows
and unicorns.

meaningless comment.

But what
you get for your money is a well made device, beautifully
put together. Since they control everything there are
few glitches.

it's something people want and are willing to pay for it.

It's AOL. You pay through the nose to be
spoonfed. You put up with insufferable sleaze. But it's safe
and stable, for the most part. (AOL was brilliant at
protecting people from online risks. Their browser was
actually a hacked version of IE with most of the settings
options removed.)

it's not aol. it's not even remotely close to aol.

The only problem is that Apple users are mostly tech-
ignorant. They're sitting ducks if a bug does get through.
But Apple, like AOL, does a pretty good job of isolating
the users from the outside world.

nonsense.

Is Android better? Google spies at least as much as
Apple.

apple goes out of their way to *not* spy on their users, including
using differential privacy, which can be mathematically proven to
maintain anonymity.

google, on the other hand, makes money by tracking users and goes out
of their way to do so.

Their "store" is more open, but also more risky.

google also approves what apps go into their play store.

Less secure. And the fact that it's Linux underneath is
academic. Android is their own creation; closed open
source. For the average person who's not an Android
programmer, an Android phone is a locked down, spyware
tracking collar that's often attacked by malware.

that is somewhat true.

But
there is one advantage: With the money left over from
buying an Android phone, as opposed to an iPhone, you
can buy yourself a couple of TV sets.

prices are comparable for similar specs.

On Sat, 27 Jun 2020 08:10:04 -0400, "Mayayana"
wrote:

"Bill" wrote

| I'm not sure "impossible" is the relevant standard.
| Preferring to avoid anything "Apple", I didn't make a claim, I used
| the word evidently. In retrospect, as far as I-phones are concerned, it
| seems mostly correct, and what a
| reasonable person would think, based upon a preponderance of the
| evidence. In other words, use a "civil" standard rather than a "beyond
| a shadow of a doubt" standard. Being pedogogically-literal on Usenet,
| like in a math book, mostly seems to result in wasted keystrokes.

You're wasting those keystrokes. Nospam will argue
with you as long as you keep responding. If you say
the sky is blue he'll respond with something like, "Wrong!
Clouds are white!" He'll switch topic, context... whatever
it takes to argue that you're wrong and he's right.

Some years ago he succeeded in twisting a long thread to the point
where I was able to quote one of his earlier posts against him. That
didn't faze him in the least.


You can get a taste of Apple's sleaze and control if
you look up the latest app idiocy called "Hey". It's been
in the news for the past week. $100/year
gets you email filters. They had a standoff with Apple
because Apple wants a cut of not only the sale but also
the "in app purchases". The Heysters refused to pay.
Somehow it got ironed out. Apparently Apple gave in.
Or maybe they just decided that Hey was such a ridiculous
idea that it's sure to die soon. Hey promises privacy.
That's a good one.

Can people bypass Apple?
Yes. That's what jailbreaking means. It's a hack that
one usually pays others to do. Then, of course, you're
out of Apple's good graces, so good luck if you need
help.

So can someone use unauthorized apps? In theory,
yes. Just as in theory one can run Win10 without it
getting updated. There are ways to accomplish it. But
it's not a realistic option for most people. And for virtually
all developers, it's a pay-to-play scenario, if you can
even get your software into their store. But there are
plenty of people willing to pay.

Apple prioritizes their control in all areas. The ifixit site
often gives them low ratings on repairability as well, citing
tricks like embedding the innards of their notebooks in
plastic resin to make them unrepairable. Apple even
invented their own irregular screw head design, to thwart
people.
You can find out all about that ugly story by searching for
something like: apple right to repair

There are pros and cons there. Apple is a sleazeball
operation that exploits its customers and runs a monopoly.
Every aspect of their business is despicable: Hiding
money offshore to avoid taxes. Building their devices with
virtual slave labor.... When an interviewer asked Timmy Cook
about making iPhones in the US he evaded the question
and pulled a Mr. Rogers, saying something like, "iPhones
are made by the whole world." He explained that the various
parts come from all over, characterizing Apple's exploitation
as some kind of sweetie pie multiculturalism.

They're very good at maintaining a public image as
family-friendly nice guys who specialize in rainbows
and unicorns.

But what
you get for your money is a well made device, beautifully
put together. Since they control everything there are
few glitches. It's AOL. You pay through the nose to be
spoonfed. You put up with insufferable sleaze. But it's safe
and stable, for the most part. (AOL was brilliant at
protecting people from online risks. Their browser was
actually a hacked version of IE with most of the settings
options removed.)
The only problem is that Apple users are mostly tech-
ignorant. They're sitting ducks if a bug does get through.
But Apple, like AOL, does a pretty good job of isolating
the users from the outside world.

Is Android better? Google spies at least as much as
Apple. Their "store" is more open, but also more risky.
Less secure. And the fact that it's Linux underneath is
academic. Android is their own creation; closed open
source. For the average person who's not an Android
programmer, an Android phone is a locked down, spyware
tracking collar that's often attacked by malware. But
there is one advantage: With the money left over from
buying an Android phone, as opposed to an iPhone, you
can buy yourself a couple of TV sets.

I think a case could be made that we're in early days
and eventually there will have to be something like breaking
up Ma Bell. A handful of tech companies are monopolizing
the computing medium itself. They need to be stopped.
But so far they've been allowed free reign. So there's no
device or operating system or mainstream service that
isn't lock-in sleaze at this point. Look at Facebook. People
have got used to watching ads and having their access
controlled in exchange for the right to talk to their friends.
How did that happen? People want convenience and Zuck
saw a buck to be made. So now he pelts their "feed" with
any old thing that will keep them excited so that they don't
walk away from the trough.

It's all sleazy profit motive with no common decency.
Microsoft, undersdtandably, saw those opportunities and
they want in. They don't just want to sell software. They
want to sell software usage.

So you can't win, unless you want to use the Linux
do-it-yourself kit. But the people who sell you that won't
help you put it together. You won't find much software.
You won't find backward compatibility or longterm support.
Their motto is something like "Free people do their own
compiling". Non-geeks are losers who don't deserve their
freedom.

--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

Some years ago he succeeded in twisting a long thread to the point
where I was able to quote one of his earlier posts against him. That
didn't faze him in the least.

you did no such thing.

On Sat, 27 Jun 2020 21:14:17 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

Some years ago he succeeded in twisting a long thread to the point
where I was able to quote one of his earlier posts against him. That
didn't faze him in the least.

you did no such thing.

That's what you said at the time.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

nospam wrote:
In article , Bill
wrote:

Preferring to avoid anything "Apple", I didn't make a claim, I used
the word evidently.

if you didn't avoid anything apple (no need for quotes), then you'd be
familiar with how things actually work rather than guess based on
myths.

My familiarity is based upon watching others, and what I learn when I
hear someone talking about it or when I read about it (which is
increasingly often!) At this point I don't use "Anything Apple", and I
fully intend to keep it that way. See Mayayana's post for what I
thought was a very thoughtful review of some of the issues. Of course,
I didn't see Mayayana use the words "over-priced" anywhere (IMHO), so I
mentioned it (now).

"Eric Stevens" wrote

| you did no such thing.
|
| That's what you said at the time.

Woops. He just got you again.

"Bill" wrote

| Of course,
| I didn't see Mayayana use the words "over-priced" anywhere (IMHO), so I
| mentioned it (now).

My apologies if I left that out. Yes. Overpriced
up the yazoo. I read a stat about that once.
I don't remember the exact number but I think it
was about 50% profit Apple was making on iPhones.
That's amazing by itself. But when you consider
the people assembling them are virtual slaves,
jumping out of dormitory windows to commit suicide,
while Apple stashes much of the profit offshore
because Timmy Cook thinks corporate taxes are
"unfair", their immorality is even more striking. It's
a disease. They just keep getting billions, by
hook or by crook, for no reason and no matter
what the cost to others.

Though I noticed they're having a big sale on
iPhones lately with coronavirus. I'm sure they'd be
happy to keep vacuuming out the wallets of
starving, unemployed people, but apparently sales
are way down.

In article , Bill
wrote:

Preferring to avoid anything "Apple", I didn't make a claim, I used
the word evidently.

if you didn't avoid anything apple (no need for quotes), then you'd be
familiar with how things actually work rather than guess based on
myths.

My familiarity is based upon watching others, and what I learn when I
hear someone talking about it or when I read about it (which is
increasingly often!) At this point I don't use "Anything Apple", and I
fully intend to keep it that way.

in other words, your familiarity is *not* from direct experience, which
was my point.

with direct experience, you'd realize that a lot of the myths are just
that, myths.

See Mayayana's post for what I
thought was a very thoughtful review of some of the issues.

see my response where i refuted just about everything he said.

Of course,
I didn't see Mayayana use the words "over-priced" anywhere (IMHO), so I
mentioned it (now).

actually, he did mention price and it's a myth that apple products are
overpriced.

as i said before, prices are comparable for similar specs and in some
cases, apple is *less* expensive.

one of the best examples was when dell announced (but didn't ship) a 5k
display for $2500, then a few months later, apple shipped a 5k imac for
$2500, which used the same 5k lcd panel dell was using *and* included a
core i5 computer, forcing dell to slash its price for just the display,
with core i7 also available.

https://www.pcworld.com/article/2844...itor-price-aft
er-apple-launches-new-imac.html
The monitor, when announced, was originally priced $2,499.99.
Dell did not immediately provide reasons for the change on the price.
However, Jennifer Colegrove, founder and president of Touch Display
Research, said Apple¹s 27-inch iMac, which sports a 5K display, may
have been a catalyst.

For $2,499.99, Apple is throwing an entire computing platform into
its 27-inch iMac with Retina 5K Display. Dell¹s UltraSharp 27 is only
a monitor and the company may have had to drop its price to attract
buyers, Colegrove said.

also note that the dell 5k display needed a dual video card since it
could not be driven by a single displayport, increasing the cost of the
computer needed to drive it, which also can cause some software
compatibility issues due to the dual-tiled display.

not only was the dell display+computer more expensive than a 5k imac,
but it didn't work as well and was a nest of cables too.

In article , Mayayana
wrote:


| Of course,
| I didn't see Mayayana use the words "over-priced" anywhere (IMHO), so I
| mentioned it (now).

My apologies if I left that out. Yes. Overpriced
up the yazoo. I read a stat about that once.
I don't remember the exact number but I think it
was about 50% profit Apple was making on iPhones.
That's amazing by itself. But when you consider
the people assembling them are virtual slaves,
jumping out of dormitory windows to commit suicide,
while Apple stashes much of the profit offshore
because Timmy Cook thinks corporate taxes are
"unfair", their immorality is even more striking. It's
a disease. They just keep getting billions, by
hook or by crook, for no reason and no matter
what the cost to others.

another ignorant rant.

iphone prices are comparable to similar android phones, the suicide
rate at foxconn was lower than the rest of china and apple took steps
to lower it even further, nothing is stashed offshore and the very same
'virtual slaves' (which are apparently not the same as real slaves)
made your computer and your clothes and all sorts of other stuff.

Though I noticed they're having a big sale on
iPhones lately with coronavirus. I'm sure they'd be
happy to keep vacuuming out the wallets of
starving, unemployed people, but apparently sales
are way down.

also wrong.

iphone sales were down a little in q1 2020 as a result of the lockdown
in china in the latter part of the quarter affecting the ability to
manufacture them.

people need smartphones, computers and other tech devices more than
ever during the pandemic for video calls, working at home, etc.

nospam wrote:
In article , Bill

My familiarity is based upon watching others, and what I learn when I
hear someone talking about it or when I read about it (which is
increasingly often!) At this point I don't use "Anything Apple", and I
fully intend to keep it that way.

in other words, your familiarity is *not* from direct experience, which
was my point.

with direct experience, you'd realize that a lot of the myths are just
that, myths.

From my in-direct experience, I've seen and heard all I need to know
about whether I wish to buy Apple products. I don't wish to support
computer-illiteracy. YMMV. There a guy on YouTube that fixes Apple
products, commonly "jacks", screen connectors, and other parts (I forget
his name), and he's got some interesting thoughts about Apple. I can
get his username is you aren't sure who I'm talking about. If and when
he and Mayayana change their attitudes about Apple, I'll reconsider
switching mine too (just to show you I'm not trying to be stubborn about
this).

On 2020-06-27 10:17 p.m., Bill wrote:
nospam wrote:
In article , Bill
wrote:

Preferring to avoid anything "Apple", I didn't make a claim, I used
the word evidently.

if you didn't avoid anything apple (no need for quotes), then you'd be
familiar with how things actually work rather than guess based on
myths.

My familiarity is based upon watching others, and what I learn when I
hear someone talking about it or when I read about it (which is
increasingly often!)Â* At this point I don't use "Anything Apple", and I
fully intendÂ* to keep it that way.Â*Â* See Mayayana's post for what I
thought was aÂ* very thoughtful review of some of the issues.Â* Of course,
I didn't see Mayayana use the words "over-priced" anywhere (IMHO), so I
mentioned it (now).

I continue to gauge the utility of the Mac vs Windows based on the fact
that I used to make a very good living supporting people using Mac
systems...

....and now I would starve if it weren't for Windows users.

:-)

On 2020-06-28 6:07 a.m., Mayayana wrote:
"Bill" wrote

| Of course,
| I didn't see Mayayana use the words "over-priced" anywhere (IMHO), so I
| mentioned it (now).

My apologies if I left that out. Yes. Overpriced
up the yazoo. I read a stat about that once.
I don't remember the exact number but I think it
was about 50% profit Apple was making on iPhones.

Good.

That means they don't have to make their profits by selling you.

That's amazing by itself. But when you consider
the people assembling them are virtual slaves,
jumping out of dormitory windows to commit suicide,

Sorry, but that's bull**** and literally no other mass-manufactured
electronic is assembled any differently.

while Apple stashes much of the profit offshore
because Timmy Cook thinks corporate taxes are
"unfair", their immorality is even more striking. It's
a disease. They just keep getting billions, by
hook or by crook, for no reason and no matter
what the cost to others.

But you'll buy an Android phone with full knowledge that Google's whole
scheme for making a profit is based on collecting and selling your data.


Though I noticed they're having a big sale on
iPhones lately with coronavirus. I'm sure they'd be
happy to keep vacuuming out the wallets of
starving, unemployed people, but apparently sales
are way down.

Compare like to like, Mayayana.

No: Apple doesn't make any low-end phones, but compare their phones
against phones of similar capabilities and they're not priced that
differently.

Bill wrote:
nospam wrote:
In article , Bill

My familiarity is based upon watching others, and what I learn when I
hear someone talking about it or when I read about it (which is
increasingly often!) At this point I don't use "Anything Apple", and I
fully intendÂ* to keep it that way.

in other words, your familiarity is *not* from direct experience, which
was my point.

with direct experience, you'd realize that a lot of the myths are just
that, myths.

From my in-direct experience, I've seen and heard all I need to know
about whether I wish to buy Apple products.Â* I don't wish to support
computer-illiteracy. YMMV.Â*Â* There a guy on YouTube that fixes Apple
products, commonly "jacks", screen connectors, and other parts (I forget
his name),

I think his name is Louis Rossman.

and he's got some interesting thoughts about Apple.Â* I can
get his username is you aren't sure who I'm talking about.Â* If and when
he and Mayayana change their attitudes about Apple, I'll reconsider
switching mine too (just to show you I'm not trying to be stubborn about
this).

Don't need the smart ass remarks .
some use an old OS for offline things like a music server etc


--
AL'S COMPUTERS
"😉 Good Guy 😉" wrote in message ...
On 25/06/2020 07:24, Andy wrote:


Might be junk OS to you but those who use and like it its worth it





In that case why don't you use PhoenixOS. they have an English version created for people like you. It's a Chinese product so you know it's completely safe!!

http://www.phoenixos.com/en/download_x86

Use Mega download because Google Link is pretty busy.

I don't use it and I haven't downloaded it either so don't know if it is 64 bit or 32 bit.





--

With over 1.2 billion devices now running Windows 10, customer satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.

In article , Bill
wrote:

My familiarity is based upon watching others, and what I learn when I
hear someone talking about it or when I read about it (which is
increasingly often!) At this point I don't use "Anything Apple", and I
fully intend to keep it that way.

in other words, your familiarity is *not* from direct experience, which
was my point.

with direct experience, you'd realize that a lot of the myths are just
that, myths.

From my in-direct experience, I've seen and heard all I need to know
about whether I wish to buy Apple products. I don't wish to support
computer-illiteracy. YMMV.

that makes zero sense.

There a guy on YouTube that fixes Apple
products, commonly "jacks", screen connectors, and other parts (I forget
his name), and he's got some interesting thoughts about Apple. I can
get his username is you aren't sure who I'm talking about.

i know exactly who you're talking about and he's extremely biased and
one-sided.

anyone in the repair business knows that *all* products have issues,
not just one single company as he tries to make it out to be.

nothing is perfect and there will always be some number of failures
regardless of who makes it or what specific parts are used, so if he's
going to call out apple, he should *also* call out dell, lenovo, sony,
etc.

he also ignores that numerous independent surveys show that apple is
consistently rated among the most reliable and with the highest
customer satisfaction.

If and when
he and Mayayana change their attitudes about Apple, I'll reconsider
switching mine too

basing purchasing decisions on what two particular people think is very
strange, especially when what they say is easily shown to be false.

(just to show you I'm not trying to be stubborn about
this).

you clearly are by ignoring *anything* that doesn't fit your beliefs.