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#31
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Registry cleaner ?
Jackson wrote:
Kim Komando's tip of the day (07 Jan) has good words for Microcraft's jv Power tools for cleaning the registry. I believe it's freeware. Has anyone used this program? Do you have any remarks or recomendations? Jack from Taxacola (formerly Pensacola), FL - What is currently wrong or failing with the registry? - What convinced you that the registry needs to be "cleaned" up? - What constitutes the "cleaning" actions? - What do you expect to gain from the cleanup? - What are you going to do if the registry changes hose over your computer since a restore may not be possible? - What is your recovery strategy from the registry changes? *_Why the uneducated or lazy should never use registry cleaners_* If YOU are not adept at *manually* editing the registry, don't use a tool that you don't understand regarding its proposed changes. Regardless of relinquishing the task to software, YOU are the final authority in allowing it to make the changes. Any registry cleaner that does not request for YOU to give permission to make its proposed changes along with listing each proposed change should be discarded. Do you have a backup & restore plan in place? When (and not if) the registry cleaner corrupts your registry and when you can no longer boot into Windows, just how are you going to restore that OS partition so it is usable again? Even if you use a registry cleaner that provides for backups of its changes so you can revert back to the prior state, how are you going to perform that restore if you cannot boot the OS after hosing over its registry? What about entries in the registry that look to be orphaned under the current OS load instance but are used under a different OS environment? You delete what looks orphaned only to find out that they are required under a different environment. Say there was an unusually high amount of orphaned entries in your registry, like 4MB. By deleting the orphaned entries, you would speed up how long it takes Windows to load the registry's files when it starts up - by all of maybe 1 second. Oooh, aaah. All that risk of modifying the registry to save maybe a second, or less, during the Windows startup. Most folks that clean the registry end up deleting only 10KB, or less. They are doing nothing to improve their Windows load time. Since the registry is only read from the memory copy of it, and since memory is random access, there is no difference to read one byte of the registry (in memory) from the another byte in the registry (also in memory). The extra data in memory for orphaned entries has no effect on the time to retrieve items from the memory copy of the registry because orphaned entries are never retrieved (if they were, they aren't orphaned). Cleaning the registry will NOT improve performance in reading from the memory copy of the registry. The reduced size of the registry's .dat files might reduce the load time of Windows by all of a second and probably much less. And you want to risk the stability of your OS for inconsequential changes to its registry? The same boobs that get suckered into these registry cleanup "tools" are the same ones that get suckered into the memory defragment "tools". A registry cleaner should only be used if you by yourself can correctly cleanup the registry. The cleaner is just a tool to automate the same process but you should know every change that it intends to make and understand each of those changes. After all, and regardless of the stagnant expertise that is hard coded into the utility, *YOU* are the final authority in what registry changes are performed whether you do it manually or with a utility. If YOU do not understand the proposed change (which requires the product actually divulge the proposed change before committing that change), how will you know whether or not to allow that change? |
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#32
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Registry cleaner ?
Jackson wrote:
Kim Komando's tip of the day (07 Jan) has good words for Microcraft's jv Power tools for cleaning the registry. I believe it's freeware. Has anyone used this program? Do you have any remarks or recomendations? Jack from Taxacola (formerly Pensacola), FL - What is currently wrong or failing with the registry? - What convinced you that the registry needs to be "cleaned" up? - What constitutes the "cleaning" actions? - What do you expect to gain from the cleanup? - What are you going to do if the registry changes hose over your computer since a restore may not be possible? - What is your recovery strategy from the registry changes? *_Why the uneducated or lazy should never use registry cleaners_* If YOU are not adept at *manually* editing the registry, don't use a tool that you don't understand regarding its proposed changes. Regardless of relinquishing the task to software, YOU are the final authority in allowing it to make the changes. Any registry cleaner that does not request for YOU to give permission to make its proposed changes along with listing each proposed change should be discarded. Do you have a backup & restore plan in place? When (and not if) the registry cleaner corrupts your registry and when you can no longer boot into Windows, just how are you going to restore that OS partition so it is usable again? Even if you use a registry cleaner that provides for backups of its changes so you can revert back to the prior state, how are you going to perform that restore if you cannot boot the OS after hosing over its registry? What about entries in the registry that look to be orphaned under the current OS load instance but are used under a different OS environment? You delete what looks orphaned only to find out that they are required under a different environment. Say there was an unusually high amount of orphaned entries in your registry, like 4MB. By deleting the orphaned entries, you would speed up how long it takes Windows to load the registry's files when it starts up - by all of maybe 1 second. Oooh, aaah. All that risk of modifying the registry to save maybe a second, or less, during the Windows startup. Most folks that clean the registry end up deleting only 10KB, or less. They are doing nothing to improve their Windows load time. Since the registry is only read from the memory copy of it, and since memory is random access, there is no difference to read one byte of the registry (in memory) from the another byte in the registry (also in memory). The extra data in memory for orphaned entries has no effect on the time to retrieve items from the memory copy of the registry because orphaned entries are never retrieved (if they were, they aren't orphaned). Cleaning the registry will NOT improve performance in reading from the memory copy of the registry. The reduced size of the registry's .dat files might reduce the load time of Windows by all of a second and probably much less. And you want to risk the stability of your OS for inconsequential changes to its registry? The same boobs that get suckered into these registry cleanup "tools" are the same ones that get suckered into the memory defragment "tools". A registry cleaner should only be used if you by yourself can correctly cleanup the registry. The cleaner is just a tool to automate the same process but you should know every change that it intends to make and understand each of those changes. After all, and regardless of the stagnant expertise that is hard coded into the utility, *YOU* are the final authority in what registry changes are performed whether you do it manually or with a utility. If YOU do not understand the proposed change (which requires the product actually divulge the proposed change before committing that change), how will you know whether or not to allow that change? |
#33
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Registry cleaner ?
I'll post where ever I want and if you don't like it don't bother
reading my posts. What good, pray tell, has a registry cleaner ever done for you? Like all the other believers out there you put some kind of blind faith or voodoo trust in them and because your registry cleaner has found and removed a couple of orphaned registry entries it gives you a warm fuzzy feeling and you think that it's doing something useful. Your question says it all, "WHAT, pray tell, has one done to any of YOUR systems that you could not undo with the backup files...". That is the gist of it all. Why bother with programs that at best do nothing other than give you a fuzzy feeling and that at worst will cause problems requiring you to restore registry files? That is if the registry cleaner can even restore its own backup (often they can't) or if it hasn't crippled the installation to the point where the Windows can't boot properly. These cleaners are next to utterly useless and the purposed non existent benefits parroted by the vendors and fans of these programs are simply not worth the risk of the real damages that these programs can and do sometimes cause. John thanatoid wrote: John John - MVP wrote in : Don't bother with these utterly useless registry cleaners, they cause more harm than good. Don't top post. WHAT, pray tell, has one done to any of YOUR systems that you could not undo with the backup files (which all the ones I have used offer to create - and NONE of which I have ever had to use myself)? |
#34
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Registry cleaner ?
I'll post where ever I want and if you don't like it don't bother
reading my posts. What good, pray tell, has a registry cleaner ever done for you? Like all the other believers out there you put some kind of blind faith or voodoo trust in them and because your registry cleaner has found and removed a couple of orphaned registry entries it gives you a warm fuzzy feeling and you think that it's doing something useful. Your question says it all, "WHAT, pray tell, has one done to any of YOUR systems that you could not undo with the backup files...". That is the gist of it all. Why bother with programs that at best do nothing other than give you a fuzzy feeling and that at worst will cause problems requiring you to restore registry files? That is if the registry cleaner can even restore its own backup (often they can't) or if it hasn't crippled the installation to the point where the Windows can't boot properly. These cleaners are next to utterly useless and the purposed non existent benefits parroted by the vendors and fans of these programs are simply not worth the risk of the real damages that these programs can and do sometimes cause. John thanatoid wrote: John John - MVP wrote in : Don't bother with these utterly useless registry cleaners, they cause more harm than good. Don't top post. WHAT, pray tell, has one done to any of YOUR systems that you could not undo with the backup files (which all the ones I have used offer to create - and NONE of which I have ever had to use myself)? |
#35
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Registry cleaner ?
From: "thanatoid"
| "David H. Lipman" wrote in | : From: "thanatoid" | "David H. Lipman" wrote in | : From: "Jackson" | Kim Komando's tip of the day (07 Jan) has good words for | Microcraft's jv Power tools for cleaning the registry. I | believe it's freeware. | Has anyone used this program? Do you have any remarks or | recomendations? | Jack from Taxacola (formerly Pensacola), FL Rulle of thumb... Do NOT use so-called Registry Cleaners ! | You "rulle" of thumb is as good as its spelling. Forget the BS spelling faux pas... It is contraindicated to use so-called Registry Cleaners ! | OK, I'll bite... Why? Because the need for one is a myth Use can cause MORE problems than they purport to solve. Problems that can be catastrophic. -- Dave http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html Multi-AV - http://www.pctipp.ch/downloads/dl/35905.asp |
#36
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Registry cleaner ?
From: "thanatoid"
| "David H. Lipman" wrote in | : From: "thanatoid" | "David H. Lipman" wrote in | : From: "Jackson" | Kim Komando's tip of the day (07 Jan) has good words for | Microcraft's jv Power tools for cleaning the registry. I | believe it's freeware. | Has anyone used this program? Do you have any remarks or | recomendations? | Jack from Taxacola (formerly Pensacola), FL Rulle of thumb... Do NOT use so-called Registry Cleaners ! | You "rulle" of thumb is as good as its spelling. Forget the BS spelling faux pas... It is contraindicated to use so-called Registry Cleaners ! | OK, I'll bite... Why? Because the need for one is a myth Use can cause MORE problems than they purport to solve. Problems that can be catastrophic. -- Dave http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html Multi-AV - http://www.pctipp.ch/downloads/dl/35905.asp |
#37
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Registry cleaner ?
Twayne wrote:
In , John John - MVP typed: Don't bother with these utterly useless registry cleaners, they cause more harm than good. Completely untrue. Posted from ignorance and to be a gopher for a small group of registry cleaner libelists. Like any other program, just source a reliable program from a reliable web site. They don't do any harm or damage and they also allow you to undo any changes you make anyway. As usual and in your true form when ever these useless programs are exposed for what they are you are here to defend your beloved cleaners and to insult all who disagree with you. However, when people post seeking help with real problems caused by these cleaners you are nowhere to been seen. Most of us here have noticed that when it comes to posts about registry cleaners you have a case of selected blindness, and when you do reply to posts you usually leave your brains and manners parked somewhere else. John |
#38
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Registry cleaner ?
Twayne wrote: In , John John - MVP typed: Don't bother with these utterly useless registry cleaners, they cause more harm than good. Completely untrue. Posted from ignorance and to be a gopher for a small group of registry cleaner libelists. Like any other program, just source a reliable program from a reliable web site. They don't do any harm or damage and they also allow you to undo any changes you make anyway. As usual and in your true form when ever these useless programs are exposed for what they are you are here to defend your beloved cleaners and to insult all who disagree with you. However, when people post seeking help with real problems caused by these cleaners you are nowhere to been seen. Most of us here have noticed that when it comes to posts about registry cleaners you have a case of selected blindness, and when you do reply to posts you usually leave your brains and manners parked somewhere else. John |
#39
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Registry cleaner ?
Jackson wrote:
Kim Komando's tip of the day (07 Jan) has good words for Microcraft's jv Power tools for cleaning the registry. I believe it's freeware. Has anyone used this program? Do you have any remarks or recomendations? Jack from Taxacola (formerly Pensacola), FL Why would you even think you'd ever need to clean your registry? What specific *problems* are you actually experiencing (not some program's bogus listing of imaginary problems) that you think can be fixed by using a registry "cleaner?" If you do have a problem that is rooted in the registry, it would be far better to simply edit (after backing up, of course) only the specific key(s) and/or value(s) that are causing the problem. After all, why use a chainsaw when a scalpel will do the job? Additionally, the manually changing of one or two registry entries is far less likely to have the dire consequences of allowing an automated product to make multiple changes simultaneously. The only thing needed to safely clean your registry is knowledge and Regedit.exe. The registry contains all of the operating system's "knowledge" of the computer's hardware devices, installed software, the location of the device drivers, and the computer's configuration. A misstep in the registry can have severe consequences. One should not even turning loose a poorly understood automated "cleaner," unless he is fully confident that he knows *exactly* what is going to happen as a result of each and every change. Having repeatedly seen the results of inexperienced people using automated registry "cleaners," I can only advise all but the most experienced computer technicians (and/or hobbyists) to avoid them all. Experience has shown me that such tools simply are not safe in the hands of the inexperienced user. If you lack the knowledge and experience to maintain your registry by yourself, then you also lack the knowledge and experience to safely configure and use any automated registry cleaner, no matter how safe they claim to be. More importantly, no one has ever demonstrated that the use of an automated registry "cleaner," particularly by an untrained, inexperienced computer user, does any real good, whatsoever. There's certainly been no empirical evidence offered to demonstrate that the use of such products to "clean" WinXP's registry improves a computer's performance or stability. Given the potential for harm, it's just not worth the risk. Granted, most registry "cleaners" won't cause problems each and every time they're used, but the potential for harm is always there. And, since no registry "cleaner" has ever been demonstrated to do any good (think of them like treating the flu with chicken soup - there's no real medicinal value, but it sometimes provides a warming placebo effect), I always tell people that the risks far out-weigh the non-existent benefits. I will concede that a good registry *scanning* tool, in the hands of an experienced and knowledgeable technician or hobbyist can be a useful time-saving diagnostic tool, as long as it's not allowed to make any changes automatically. But I really don't think that there are any registry "cleaners" that are truly safe for the general public to use. Experience has proven just the opposite: such tools simply are not safe in the hands of the inexperienced user. A little further reading on the subject: Why I don't use registry cleaners http://www.edbott.com/weblog/?p=643 AumHa Forums • View topic - AUMHA Discussion: Should I Use a Registry Cleaner? http://aumha.net/viewtopic.php?t=28099 -- Bruce Chambers Help us help you: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/555375 They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. ~Bertrand Russell The philosopher has never killed any priests, whereas the priest has killed a great many philosophers. ~ Denis Diderot |
#40
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Registry cleaner ?
Jackson wrote:
Kim Komando's tip of the day (07 Jan) has good words for Microcraft's jv Power tools for cleaning the registry. I believe it's freeware. Has anyone used this program? Do you have any remarks or recomendations? Jack from Taxacola (formerly Pensacola), FL Why would you even think you'd ever need to clean your registry? What specific *problems* are you actually experiencing (not some program's bogus listing of imaginary problems) that you think can be fixed by using a registry "cleaner?" If you do have a problem that is rooted in the registry, it would be far better to simply edit (after backing up, of course) only the specific key(s) and/or value(s) that are causing the problem. After all, why use a chainsaw when a scalpel will do the job? Additionally, the manually changing of one or two registry entries is far less likely to have the dire consequences of allowing an automated product to make multiple changes simultaneously. The only thing needed to safely clean your registry is knowledge and Regedit.exe. The registry contains all of the operating system's "knowledge" of the computer's hardware devices, installed software, the location of the device drivers, and the computer's configuration. A misstep in the registry can have severe consequences. One should not even turning loose a poorly understood automated "cleaner," unless he is fully confident that he knows *exactly* what is going to happen as a result of each and every change. Having repeatedly seen the results of inexperienced people using automated registry "cleaners," I can only advise all but the most experienced computer technicians (and/or hobbyists) to avoid them all. Experience has shown me that such tools simply are not safe in the hands of the inexperienced user. If you lack the knowledge and experience to maintain your registry by yourself, then you also lack the knowledge and experience to safely configure and use any automated registry cleaner, no matter how safe they claim to be. More importantly, no one has ever demonstrated that the use of an automated registry "cleaner," particularly by an untrained, inexperienced computer user, does any real good, whatsoever. There's certainly been no empirical evidence offered to demonstrate that the use of such products to "clean" WinXP's registry improves a computer's performance or stability. Given the potential for harm, it's just not worth the risk. Granted, most registry "cleaners" won't cause problems each and every time they're used, but the potential for harm is always there. And, since no registry "cleaner" has ever been demonstrated to do any good (think of them like treating the flu with chicken soup - there's no real medicinal value, but it sometimes provides a warming placebo effect), I always tell people that the risks far out-weigh the non-existent benefits. I will concede that a good registry *scanning* tool, in the hands of an experienced and knowledgeable technician or hobbyist can be a useful time-saving diagnostic tool, as long as it's not allowed to make any changes automatically. But I really don't think that there are any registry "cleaners" that are truly safe for the general public to use. Experience has proven just the opposite: such tools simply are not safe in the hands of the inexperienced user. A little further reading on the subject: Why I don't use registry cleaners http://www.edbott.com/weblog/?p=643 AumHa Forums • View topic - AUMHA Discussion: Should I Use a Registry Cleaner? http://aumha.net/viewtopic.php?t=28099 -- Bruce Chambers Help us help you: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/555375 They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. ~Bertrand Russell The philosopher has never killed any priests, whereas the priest has killed a great many philosophers. ~ Denis Diderot |
#41
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Registry cleaner ?
Steve Hayes wrote:
So how should you clean the registry, then? And the correct answer to that question is: "You shouldn't." There's no sound technical reason for doing so, but abundant technical reasons for *not* doing so. -- Bruce Chambers Help us help you: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/555375 They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. ~Bertrand Russell The philosopher has never killed any priests, whereas the priest has killed a great many philosophers. ~ Denis Diderot |
#42
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Registry cleaner ?
Steve Hayes wrote:
So how should you clean the registry, then? And the correct answer to that question is: "You shouldn't." There's no sound technical reason for doing so, but abundant technical reasons for *not* doing so. -- Bruce Chambers Help us help you: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/555375 They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. ~Bertrand Russell The philosopher has never killed any priests, whereas the priest has killed a great many philosophers. ~ Denis Diderot |
#43
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Registry cleaner ?
From: "Steve Hayes"
| On Thu, 7 Jan 2010 06:48:54 -0500, "David H. Lipman" | wrote: From: "Jackson" | Kim Komando's tip of the day (07 Jan) has good words for | Microcraft's jv Power tools for cleaning the registry. I | believe it's freeware. | Has anyone used this program? Do you have any remarks or | recomendations? | Jack from Taxacola (formerly Pensacola), FL Rulle of thumb... Do NOT use so-called Registry Cleaners ! | So how should you clean the registry, then? You don't. There is no need to clean the Registry. It is a myth to sell snake oil. Very often these so-called Registry Cleaners are malware. -- Dave http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html Multi-AV - http://www.pctipp.ch/downloads/dl/35905.asp |
#44
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Registry cleaner ?
From: "Steve Hayes"
| On Thu, 7 Jan 2010 06:48:54 -0500, "David H. Lipman" | wrote: From: "Jackson" | Kim Komando's tip of the day (07 Jan) has good words for | Microcraft's jv Power tools for cleaning the registry. I | believe it's freeware. | Has anyone used this program? Do you have any remarks or | recomendations? | Jack from Taxacola (formerly Pensacola), FL Rulle of thumb... Do NOT use so-called Registry Cleaners ! | So how should you clean the registry, then? You don't. There is no need to clean the Registry. It is a myth to sell snake oil. Very often these so-called Registry Cleaners are malware. -- Dave http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html Multi-AV - http://www.pctipp.ch/downloads/dl/35905.asp |
#45
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Registry cleaner ?
Steve Hayes wrote:
On Thu, 07 Jan 2010 21:22:54 -0400, John John - MVP wrote: Twayne wrote: In , John John - MVP typed: Don't bother with these utterly useless registry cleaners, they cause more harm than good. Completely untrue. Posted from ignorance and to be a gopher for a small group of registry cleaner libelists. Like any other program, just source a reliable program from a reliable web site. They don't do any harm or damage and they also allow you to undo any changes you make anyway. As usual and in your true form when ever these useless programs are exposed for what they are you are here to defend your beloved cleaners and to insult all who disagree with you. However, when people post seeking help with real problems caused by these cleaners you are nowhere to been seen. Most of us here have noticed that when it comes to posts about registry cleaners you have a case of selected blindness, and when you do reply to posts you usually leave your brains and manners parked somewhere else. None of which tells us ANYTHING about why you think we should not use registry cleaners, and what harm you think they do. http://groups.google.com/group/micro...b2f696ca1b9462 http://boards.msn.com/safetyboards/t...D%3D 28824491 http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/topic110399.html http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;299958 http://support.microsoft.com/kb/888637 http://support.microsoft.com/kb/247678 http://groups.google.com/group/micro...3c7b89f3ba?q=# http://support.microsoft.com/kb/951950 http://groups.google.com/group/micro...1aaebff35bc 6 http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/w...ners-necessary http://www.edbott.com/weblog/archives/000643.html They do absolutely nothing to improve performance and reliability of NT installations and they can and do cause problem. Along with that many of them carry pests and malware and others are fraudware, you install them and they muck up your computer and the scam artists who wrote these snake oil programs try to extort money from you to remove their pests from your computer. Why bother? John |
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