win 10 on 10 year old hardware

I have a amd x2 6400 on an asus m2n-sli deluxe motherboard,
with a nviida 9500gt running two monitors. This pc runs
win 7 without problems. I installed win 10 on it and it
took along time to shut down, when i switch it on the
pc fails to post.

I have to switch off the power supply and on again then i
am able to boot up the pc.

So i went into power options and disabled everything, this
help in the shut down time, but booting up was still
problematic.

So what i am asking did or does any one else have a problem
similar to this and if so what did you do to correct it.

Darklight wrote:

So i went into power options and disabled everything

including disabling hybrid boot? i.e. set the opposite to this article

http://lifehacker.com/enable-this-setting-to-make-windows-10-boot-up-faster-1743697169

Darklight wrote:
I have a amd x2 6400 on an asus m2n-sli deluxe motherboard,
with a nviida 9500gt running two monitors. This pc runs
win 7 without problems. I installed win 10 on it and it
took along time to shut down, when i switch it on the
pc fails to post.

I have to switch off the power supply and on again then i
am able to boot up the pc.

So i went into power options and disabled everything, this
help in the shut down time, but booting up was still
problematic.

So what i am asking did or does any one else have a problem
similar to this and if so what did you do to correct it.

I think the suggestion from Andy, is probably it.

*******

1) It's quite possible there isn't a Win10 driver for your
video card. In my case, this machine has no driver, the other
machine got one driver before Win10 support was cut off.

If a video card doesn't have support, the Device Manager
driver will say "Microsoft Basic Display Driver" and
the max resolution will be 1024x768.

Nothing to do with your problem, but I thought I'd toss that in.
Correcting the problem (new video card), costs money. I don't
plan on giving them the satisfaction.

2) Win10 is very wasteful of cycles, and more-so when connected
to the network. It rails my poor laptop half the time, when
connected to the network. The machine actually becomes usable
if the network cable is disconnected. The battery lasts twice as
long under Win10, with the network cable disconnected. The
battery actually lasts longer than Win7 (with network cable
connected).

3) Since Windows 10 is prefaced as "software as a service",
it has to give the impression it's constantly giving you
a shoe shine. Yes, your shoes look nice, but it's awful
expensive to shine them over and over again.

At startup, msmpeng (Windows Defender) will scan the System
folder for malware. That can account for a small delay. Third party
AVs do this too, so it's a tradition, not a bug.

There is some sort of Content Management activity. It involves
figuring out whether to show you advertising, whether to
put up a different background image and so on. Purely unrelated
to the user at all of course. It doesn't help you get your work
done.

Windows Update is supposed to be delayed, and USOSVC may be the
trigger that kicks it off. You will then see activity for quite
a while, *after* the desktop appears. While this is a drag on the
computer, it doesn't affect boot time. In some cases, there may be
enough time to start an install downloaded from catalog.update.microsoft.com,
before the built-in Windows Update activity starts.

*******

In this article, on the lower part of the page, is a registry entry
to turn on status messages for services. If a service was stalled
at shutdown, the name might stay on the screen.

https://www.howtogeek.com/howto/3247...rtup-problems/

The computer has several shutdown options.

S3 Sleep - regular (to RAM)
- hybrid sleep (hiberfile has the entire session written to disk)
This takes time at shutdown. If the power goes off, the RAM copy
of the OS is lost, but the hiberfile copy can be read at restart.
If power stays available, the RAM copy of the OS is used.

S4 Hibernate - hiberfile has the entire session written to disk.
This takes time at shutdown.

S5 Soft Off - On my laptop, the power LED goes off, yet the hard drive
LED continues to pulse. This could be Fast Start hibernating
just the kernel. Whereas Hibernate writes out the whole RAM,
kernel hibernation for Fast Start might only write out 256MB.

There are ways to trace what happens at bootup.

Back in the WinXP era, there was BootVis. It was the best, in
terms of doing things that were useful to end users. This was
discontinued before WinXP SP3 timeframe.

It came back, as XbootMgr and XPerf viewer. These allow plotting
the computing activity during bootup or during shutdown. The
ETW subsystem records events. It's running all the time. You
can even use events from that subsystem, to debug or "watch"
what programs are doing. Process Monitor uses those events.

XBootMgr and XPerf were still around in the Win8 era. Then,
Microsoft decided a more grandiose version was needed. They
made a tool called Windows Performance Analyzer (WPA). If left
to its own devices, it reboots the computer six times, and
the data collection takes two hours. There is a viewing tool
built in, and a number of canned graph formats (accessed by
twiddling triangle icons on the left column of the display).

So what I snagged, is the Win8 version, which may have been
the last one to have XBootMgr and friends.

Now, if you didn't like those options, Sysinternals Process Monitor
(ProcMon) has a boot monitoring option (it's a menu item). It collects
ETW data at boot, but it has no graphs. It just collects a
hundred megabytes of line by line text messages. The up-side,
is it's easy to use. It modifies the system, in that in inserts
"procmon23.sys" into the system folder, and that file is hidden.
It doesn't remove the file after the trace is collected. When you
start ProcMon after the system has booted (wait about two minutes
before opening it), what should happen, is it should offer to
"Save a file". And that file is the boot log.

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sys...nloads/procmon

But scrolling through that trace, it's going to be hard to
identify what is wasting time. Virtually *everything* in
the log is a waste of time, and your job is to find the
biggest waste of time.

In a VM containing Win10 I run on this machine, I've managed
to speed the VM up, by neutering a few subsystems. For example,
I renamed msmpeng.dll to msmpeng.dll.bak. So it wouldn't
have a Windows Defender. I turned off the ContentAnalysis
service (hiding in a BackgroundTaskHost or similar), by
renaming a couple critical DLLs it uses. I was careful to
not get too ambitious. I didn't stick a fork into Cortana,
although I was tempted. And the CPU usage dropped to the
point, I could actually do work in the VM. Of course, that
sort of butchery is "not maintainable". I'd no longer
be getting Windows Update (I disabled wuaneng.dll), I'd
not get security updates, blah blah blah. So that was
purely an example of removing some of the overhead, to
see if the thing could be made usable. And it did help.
This is not something I would recommend for a "daily driver"
OS, and would be something intended for your batch work or
something. Like if you leave a video render running all night,
maybe an OS disk drive with the nuts cut off, would be a useful
thing. Boot the neutered drive, set it running, then switch
disks in the morning to the (maintainable) daily driver OS.

While you can debug it, the tools aren't really that good.
One of the shortcomings, is XbootMgr or WPA will record that
"SVCHOST pid 912 was doing stuff". And of course, you don't
have a log of what services run in that one, so you cannot
begin to guess what service was doing it. Like on a Linux box,
the PID value will be different on each boot, so you cannot
even analyze the system before rebooting, to figure out what
PID 912 is. It might be PID 546 the next time. If the SVCHOST
envelope could be removed, the system would be a lot easier
to debug. For example, when wuaueng rails a CPU core for an
hour, people would like to see that thing named and shamed
in Task Manager. As a start. We shouldn't have to use
Process Explorer to figure it out.

Paul

Paul wrote:
Darklight wrote:
I have a amd x2 6400 on an asus m2n-sli deluxe motherboard,
with a nviida 9500gt running two monitors. This pc runs win 7 without
problems. I installed win 10 on it and it took along time to shut
down, when i switch it on the
pc fails to post.
I have to switch off the power supply and on again then i am able to
boot up the pc.
So i went into power options and disabled everything, this help in the
shut down time, but booting up was still problematic.
So what i am asking did or does any one else have a problem
similar to this and if so what did you do to correct it.

I think the suggestion from Andy, is probably it.

*******

1) It's quite possible there isn't a Win10 driver for your
video card. In my case, this machine has no driver, the other
machine got one driver before Win10 support was cut off.

If a video card doesn't have support, the Device Manager
driver will say "Microsoft Basic Display Driver" and
the max resolution will be 1024x768.

Nothing to do with your problem, but I thought I'd toss that in.
Correcting the problem (new video card), costs money. I don't
plan on giving them the satisfaction.

His video card is supported

http://www.nvidia.com/download/driverResults.aspx/87988/


2) Win10 is very wasteful of cycles, and more-so when connected
to the network. It rails my poor laptop half the time, when
connected to the network. The machine actually becomes usable
if the network cable is disconnected. The battery lasts twice as
long under Win10, with the network cable disconnected. The
battery actually lasts longer than Win7 (with network cable
connected).

It's a chatty little bugger ain't it...


3) Since Windows 10 is prefaced as "software as a service",
it has to give the impression it's constantly giving you
a shoe shine. Yes, your shoes look nice, but it's awful
expensive to shine them over and over again.

At startup, msmpeng (Windows Defender) will scan the System
folder for malware. That can account for a small delay. Third party
AVs do this too, so it's a tradition, not a bug.

There is some sort of Content Management activity. It involves
figuring out whether to show you advertising, whether to
put up a different background image and so on. Purely unrelated
to the user at all of course. It doesn't help you get your work
done.

Turning this crap off surely helps. OP did not say how much RAM he had.
Although 10 supposed to be "lighter" than 7 I have found 2GB inadequate
especially on a budget CPU, 4GB better and 8GB the preferred amount,
(just my experience).

--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com

On 14/08/2017 11:06, Darklight wrote:
I have a amd x2 6400 on an asus m2n-sli deluxe motherboard,
with a nviida 9500gt running two monitors. This pc runs
win 7 without problems. I installed win 10 on it and it
took along time to shut down, when i switch it on the
pc fails to post.

I have to switch off the power supply and on again then i
am able to boot up the pc.

So i went into power options and disabled everything, this
help in the shut down time, but booting up was still
problematic.

So what i am asking did or does any one else have a problem
similar to this and if so what did you do to correct it.

I have one of the machines DELL 760 much older machine than yours and
what I normally do is to let Windows decide how it wants to deal with
various old drivers and other hardware. Windows like to do its own work
in the background and in time everything starts working as normal as
possible.

Switching off the machine is not the best way to deal with problems.
Always allow windows to work out how each drivers have to be dealt
with. You could also check that fast start-up is set to be on so that
Windows knows how to save your settings before switching off.

--
With over 500 million devices now running Windows 10, customer
satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.

Darklight wrote:

I have a amd x2 6400

That's the CPU.

on an asus m2n-sli deluxe motherboard,

That's the motherboard.

with a nviida 9500gt

That's the nVidia GeForce 9500 GT.

Alas, you only give the reference graphics card design model. Do you
actually have a video card labelled "nVidia" as the manufacturer or OEM
brand? Same reference model can be implemented different ways by
different card makers. Check if you have the Windows 10 driver (which
must be the same bitwidth as the OS and which you did not mention) for
THAT brand and model of video card.

You could try using the reference driver for your video card and hope it
supports all features on whatever brand and model of video card that you
have. Have you visited their site to check you have the latest driver?

https://www.geforce.com/drivers

The one I found there (https://www.geforce.com/drivers/results/120908)
does NOT list Windows 10 as supported. You might get lucky, might not.
The 9500 GT was the bottom half of that product line aka a entry-level
product. Quite often with video cards, the top half of a product model
line overlaps (is equal to) the bottom half on the next model line.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...9xxx.29_series

running two monitors. This pc runs
win 7 without problems. I installed win 10 on it and it
took along time to shut down, when i switch it on the
pc fails to post.

Are you testing with still 2 monitors connected or just 1?

I have to switch off the power supply and on again then i
am able to boot up the pc.

Have you tried with all externally connected devices, including USB
(except keyboard and mouse if those use USB) disconnected?

So i went into power options and disabled everything, this
help in the shut down time, but booting up was still
problematic.

Does the computer actually fail to get to the POST screen? Or is it
*after* Windows 10 starts loading that "fails" (which doesn't say if the
computer won't power up or hangs during OS load)? You may have to
disable a POST banner some motherboards like to show during a boot.
That obliterates you from seeing the POST screen and instead shows you
their adware banner and perhaps some status during boot.

VanguardLH wrote:

Does the computer actually fail to get to the POST screen?

For "fast startup" mode (aka hybrid boot) the machine isn't actually
booting, it's recovering from a hibernate which happened at "shutdown"
.... hence bypassing POST.

VanguardLH wrote:
Darklight wrote:

I have a amd x2 6400

That's the CPU.

on an asus m2n-sli deluxe motherboard,

That's the motherboard.

with a nviida 9500gt

That's the nVidia GeForce 9500 GT.

Alas, you only give the reference graphics card design model. Do you
actually have a video card labelled "nVidia" as the manufacturer or OEM
brand? Same reference model can be implemented different ways by
different card makers. Check if you have the Windows 10 driver (which
must be the same bitwidth as the OS and which you did not mention) for
THAT brand and model of video card.

You could try using the reference driver for your video card and hope it
supports all features on whatever brand and model of video card that you
have. Have you visited their site to check you have the latest driver?

https://www.geforce.com/drivers

The one I found there (https://www.geforce.com/drivers/results/120908)
does NOT list Windows 10 as supported. You might get lucky, might not.
The 9500 GT was the bottom half of that product line aka a entry-level
product. Quite often with video cards, the top half of a product model
line overlaps (is equal to) the bottom half on the next model line.

Because you are in the wrong place, I listed the Windows 10 driver he

http://www.nvidia.com/download/driverResults.aspx/87988/

and the GeForce 9500 GT is supported in the list.


--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com

On Mon, 14 Aug 2017 11:06:02 +0100, Darklight
wrote:

I have a amd x2 6400 on an asus m2n-sli deluxe motherboard,
with a nviida 9500gt running two monitors. This pc runs
win 7 without problems. I installed win 10 on it and it
took along time to shut down, when i switch it on the
pc fails to post.

I have to switch off the power supply and on again then i
am able to boot up the pc.

So i went into power options and disabled everything, this
help in the shut down time, but booting up was still
problematic.

So what i am asking did or does any one else have a problem
similar to this and if so what did you do to correct it.

My hardware is 10year old and works OK.

My booting problem such as you describe was caused by the BIOS battery
terminals being tarnished over time and needed a good clean. The
little battery needs its surface polished too.

On Mon, 14 Aug 2017 22:47:07 -0400, Wolf K
wrote:

On 2017-08-14 19:31, Peter Jason wrote:
On Mon, 14 Aug 2017 11:06:02 +0100, Darklight
wrote:

I have a amd x2 6400 on an asus m2n-sli deluxe motherboard,
with a nviida 9500gt running two monitors. This pc runs
win 7 without problems. I installed win 10 on it and it
took along time to shut down, when i switch it on the
pc fails to post.

I have to switch off the power supply and on again then i
am able to boot up the pc.

So i went into power options and disabled everything, this
help in the shut down time, but booting up was still
problematic.

So what i am asking did or does any one else have a problem
similar to this and if so what did you do to correct it.

My hardware is 10year old and works OK.

My booting problem such as you describe was caused by the BIOS battery
terminals being tarnished over time and needed a good clean. The
little battery needs its surface polished too.

That's a sign of the battery is dying: at full voltage, the current can
cut through a fair amount of dirt and oxidation.
My old one is working fine after the good clean.

Andy Burns wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:

Does the computer actually fail to get to the POST screen?

For "fast startup" mode (aka hybrid boot) the machine isn't actually
booting, it's recovering from a hibernate which happened at "shutdown"
... hence bypassing POST.

Wouldn't "went into power options and disabled everything" mean hybrid
hibernate was disabled?

http://i1-news.softpedia-static.com/...-8102-M3-2.png

I had assumed disabling everything meant the "Enable Hybrid Boot" was
was deselected.

VanguardLH wrote:

Wouldn't "went into power options and disabled everything" mean hybrid
hibernate was disabled?

It would if the O/P went deep enough into the settings, but s/he hasn't
been back, so I suspect we'll never know ...

"Jonathan N. Little" writes:

Turning this crap off surely helps. OP did not say how much RAM he
had. Although 10 supposed to be "lighter" than 7 I have found 2GB inadequate
especially on a budget CPU, 4GB better and 8GB the preferred amount, (just my
experience).

I have an old 64 Bit Amd laptop with 1G of RAM. Originally with Vista. I
run 32 bit Windows 10 on it as it uses less RAM than 64 bit. It works OK
but a bit slow.

--
~

Wolf K wrote:
On 2017-08-14 23:11, Peter Jason wrote:
On Mon, 14 Aug 2017 22:47:07 -0400, Wolf K
wrote:

On 2017-08-14 19:31, Peter Jason wrote:
[...]
My hardware is 10year old and works OK.

My booting problem such as you describe was caused by the BIOS battery
terminals being tarnished over time and needed a good clean. The
little battery needs its surface polished too.

That's a sign of the battery is dying: at full voltage, the current can
cut through a fair amount of dirt and oxidation.
My old one is working fine after the good clean.

Of course, because you've reduced the surface resistance considerably.
But you'll have to clean it again fairly soon. If I were you I'd make
sure I knew what battery to get when a good clean doesn't work any more.

Good luck,


Surface resistance ?

The battery provides 0 to 10uA of current.
How much surface resistance do you need to drop 0.6V ?

0.6V / 0.000010 = 60K ohms (59K, if you take the 1K into account)

It's not like it has to be polished like the contacts
on the thermostat on your electric water heater.

The body of the battery is made of something good
enough to deal with the electrolyte inside the battery.
I've never had a CR2032 leak...

There's actually a limit on how much current can flow
out of the battery. It's set by a 1K ohm resistor.
That means, even if there is a short downstream, the battery
can never provide more than 3V/1K = 3mA. That's hardly a
"torrent" of current. That would barely light a small LED.

Clear_CMOS jumper
--- +--X X--- GND
+5VSB --- regulator -- ORing_diode --+ |
+------+--+--- South Bridge
+-- CR2032 ---- 1K --- ORing_diode --+ | 3VSB to "CMOS
| - + Cap well" area.
GND --- SOT23 --- |
3 legs GND Well is isolated
Common Cathode with transmission
Schottky gates for low leak
Vf=0.3v approx on battery operation

The Cap in the diagram, is a small ceramic, maybe 0.1 to 0.01uF.
It's purpose is to hold up the voltage, when the toggle flops
in the RTC divider chain change states. The 10uA from the battery
could never hold up the load. The "Cap" provides "stiffness"
to being depleted. When the +5VSB path is available, the upper
path is a lot stiffer, and doesn't need the Cap quite as much.
When the BIOS "fiddles" with the CMOS well, the transient
current becomes more noisy. The Cap still helps a lot with
that. And the upper path can source a lot more current to
top up the Cap too. You'll notice the upper path, has no
(obvious) limitation on current. There is no 1K resistor
in the top path, because the current consumption when
you talk to the CMOS well, is a lot higher. So the top
path is "extra stiff" in a sense.

The Clear_CMOS jumper is the trouble-maker. If you
short the two "X" letters together, the CMOS block
and RTC lose power, and get reset. The checksum on
the CMOS might be incorrect after removing the jumper,
which is how the BIOS knows to fix it.

The trouble happens, if the user leaves the PC powered
while using the jumper. If +5VSB is available, and you
short X--X , then close to an amp of current might flow
through the top path of the SOT23, burning it. When it
burns, you won't be able to read the label on it later.
That's why you always make sure the power is off, before
clearing CMOS. Very few designs use the "reset" pin on
the Southbridge, provided for the purpose of clearing
CMOS. Instead, the age-old technique of shorting is used.

Also, when you short X--X, you cause 3mA to flow out
of the CR2032. Leaving it shorted over night, would
be hard on the battery. This is why some people
remove all power and pop the battery instead, as a
means to "starve" the Southbridge and clear CMOS.

If the PC is powered off, and you only use the jumper
for a couple seconds, everybody is pretty happy.

On high security laptops, the password is stored in a 2K
EEPROM, and clearing CMOS won't help make the laptop
easy to break into. Whereas on your home-build PC,
clearing the CMOS is enough to reset the passwords
stored in the 256 byte CMOS RAM. Clearing CMOS is used
to clear overclock settings, as well as reset a password
the user has forgotten.

There is at least one tiny utility, for storing a copy
of the CMOS RAM contents. But it's DOS, and not at all
convenient or workable in a Windows 10 world.

If you burn the SOT23, this is the part. BAS40W-05
They list the package as SOT323. The body length
is 2mm.

http://www.diodes.com/_files/datasheets/ds30114.pdf

HTH,
Paul

Richmond wrote:
"Jonathan N. Little" writes:

Turning this crap off surely helps. OP did not say how much RAM he
had. Although 10 supposed to be "lighter" than 7 I have found 2GB inadequate
especially on a budget CPU, 4GB better and 8GB the preferred amount, (just my
experience).

I have an old 64 Bit Amd laptop with 1G of RAM. Originally with Vista. I
run 32 bit Windows 10 on it as it uses less RAM than 64 bit. It works OK
but a bit slow.


You must be a very patient guy ;-)

--
Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com