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#61
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Speak a ommon spelling error list (hints on demand)
On 8/30/2017 10:47 AM, Ken Blake wrote:
On Wed, 30 Aug 2017 10:03:29 -0500, Rene Lamontagne wrote: On 8/30/2017 9:58 AM, Ken Blake wrote: On Wed, 30 Aug 2017 11:59:52 +0100, "NY" wrote: "Robert Bannister" wrote in message ... Sadly, it seems that in this country at least, "waistcoat" has been replaced by "vest". It helps that we never called an undershirt a vest as they do in England. Exactly. When I went out to Boston to see my sister and her family who were living there for a few years because he husband had been seconded to Gillette's head office, I took the time to build up a list of the most obvious British/American differences (eg tap/faucet, flat/apartment, waistcoat/vest, vest/undershirt etc). And the different meanings of "momentarily" (*). And I knew not to look too horrified when an American referred to a woman's fanny (**) :-) The one word I missed from my "be careful how you use this word to avoid confusion" list was "fortnight". Someone asked me how long I was staying in Boston and I said "about a fortnight" which was met with blank incomprehension because I gather that this word (which refers to a period of fourteen days ie two weeks) is not used in the US as commonly. I'm familiar with the word "fortnight," but it's almost never used in the US. I'm always scrupulous about always quoting dates with the month as a word. 1/2/17 can be interpreted as 1st of February or January 2nd depending on whether you apply British or American convention, Yes. but "1st of February" is unambiguous, Yes. even if an American might have said it "February 2nd". Not me. I'd say "February first." g But a lot of Americans would say "Febuary first." Likewise for times in Germany: I'm wise to the fact that Germans use "half [an hour] *to* three" My German is extremely rusty and wasn't great to begin with (I studied it in college many years ago), but as I remember, it's not "half to three" but just "half three" (halb drei). It's strange to an English speaker, but it makes a lot of sense. where we would say "half *past* two". The problem comes when a German doesn't know that you've adjusted: I once had an amusing conversation with a German when I arranged to meet him at "halb drei" [half three] meaning half past two, Yes, as I said above and he didn't realise that I was aware of the different convention and thought I'd blindly translated "half" and "three", and so mentally adjusted this to what he would think of as "half [to] four". After that I said "half nach [past] drei", even though this isn't idiomatically correct, to avoid any misunderstanding. (*) In Britain, it means "*for* a moment" (ie transiently, briefly) rather than "*in* a moment" (ie soon), Thanks very much. I didn't know that. hence the hoary old joke about the American pilot who announced to his planeload of British passengers that they would be landing momentarily, to which the Brits thought "I hope he stays on the ground long enough for us to get off". Rather than use the word "wrongly" (by my standards) I tend to avoid it and rephrase it if I'm talking to Americans. (**) In case anyone doesn't know, "fanny" refers to the female genitals in British English and the buttocks in American English. Important that Americans coming to Britain don't use the wrong word :-) I didn't know that either. Anyone here have trouble spelling I or A ? :-)) I'm very good at spelling. Eye and eh. g Touche. :-) Rene |
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Speak a common spelling error list (hints on demand)
Ken Blake wrote:
On Wed, 30 Aug 2017 13:34:43 +0100, "NY" wrote: One of those class/regional distinctions is the use of the word "dinner". In upper/middle class usage, especially in the south of England, it refers to the evening meal. But in working class, northern usage it often refers to the mid-day meal, with the evening meal being referred to as "tea". However even in the south, the mid-day meal in a school is always referred to as "dinner", as in "school dinners", "dinner money" (the money you take to school each week and give to the teacher to pay for that week's meals) and "dinner ladies" (the women, often parents of children at the school, who supervise the meals, making sure that everyone queues up and files into the dining room in an orderly fashion). The same in the US. The word "dinner" is used differently in different parts of the US. To me, dinner is the evening meal; to some others it's what I call "lunch" (or better, "luncheon," but that word is fading fast), and the evening meal is called "supper." It's somewhat similar in Italian with the usage of "cenare" and "pranzare." Well the way I was taught lunch is a midday meal and luncheon is a *formal* midday meal. Supper is an *informal* light end-of day meal and dinner is a more *formal* end-of day meal. -- Take care, Jonathan ------------------- LITTLE WORKS STUDIO http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com |
#63
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Speak a common spelling error list (hints on demand)
On 2017-08-30 2:15 PM, Jonathan N. Little wrote:
Ken Blake wrote: On Wed, 30 Aug 2017 13:34:43 +0100, "NY" wrote: One of those class/regional distinctions is the use of the word "dinner". In upper/middle class usage, especially in the south of England, it refers to the evening meal. But in working class, northern usage it often refers to the mid-day meal, with the evening meal being referred to as "tea". However even in the south, the mid-day meal in a school is always referred to as "dinner", as in "school dinners", "dinner money" (the money you take to school each week and give to the teacher to pay for that week's meals) and "dinner ladies" (the women, often parents of children at the school, who supervise the meals, making sure that everyone queues up and files into the dining room in an orderly fashion). The same in the US. The word "dinner" is used differently in different parts of the US. To me, dinner is the evening meal; to some others it's what I call "lunch" (or better, "luncheon," but that word is fading fast), and the evening meal is called "supper." It's somewhat similar in Italian with the usage of "cenare" and "pranzare." Well the way I was taught lunch is a midday meal and luncheon is a *formal* midday meal. Supper is an *informal* light end-of day meal and dinner is a more *formal* end-of day meal. We ate lunch at noon, more or less, and used "dinner" and "supper" interchangeably for the evening meal. Some families did have dinner at midday, and if they did, it was generally a large meal. We only had Christmas or New Year's dinnners at midday, and then only if the turkey was cooked in time. Usually it was later, but not as late as supper. -- Cheryl |
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Speak a ommon spelling error list (hints on demand)
On Wed, 30 Aug 2017 18:39:48 +0100, Janet wrote:
In article , am says... That's another thing one doesn't generally see in the US: Social class being indicated by the silliness of one's nickname. Do Americans use names like Earl, Prince, Princess, Duke, to indicate their social class? If so, which? "Prince" is sometimes used to indicate the class of dogs. g |
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Speak a common spelling error list (hints on demand)
On Wed, 30 Aug 2017 12:45:30 -0400, "Jonathan N. Little"
wrote: Ken Blake wrote: On Wed, 30 Aug 2017 13:34:43 +0100, "NY" wrote: One of those class/regional distinctions is the use of the word "dinner". In upper/middle class usage, especially in the south of England, it refers to the evening meal. But in working class, northern usage it often refers to the mid-day meal, with the evening meal being referred to as "tea". However even in the south, the mid-day meal in a school is always referred to as "dinner", as in "school dinners", "dinner money" (the money you take to school each week and give to the teacher to pay for that week's meals) and "dinner ladies" (the women, often parents of children at the school, who supervise the meals, making sure that everyone queues up and files into the dining room in an orderly fashion). The same in the US. The word "dinner" is used differently in different parts of the US. To me, dinner is the evening meal; to some others it's what I call "lunch" (or better, "luncheon," but that word is fading fast), and the evening meal is called "supper." It's somewhat similar in Italian with the usage of "cenare" and "pranzare." Well the way I was taught lunch is a midday meal and luncheon is a *formal* midday meal. "Lunch" is a verb and "luncheon" is a noun. At least that's the way it used to be. Hardly anyone makes that distinction now; "lunch" has become a noun and "luncheon" is rarely used.. Supper is an *informal* light end-of day meal and dinner is a more *formal* end-of day meal. |
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Speak a ommon spelling error list (hints on demand)
On Wed, 30 Aug 2017 18:39:48 +0100, Janet wrote:
In article , am says... That's another thing one doesn't generally see in the US: Social class being indicated by the silliness of one's nickname. Do Americans use names like Earl, Prince, Princess, Duke, to indicate their social class? If so, which? Your newborn child is always "special", and some people think that by giving your child a royal title as a name, it elevates their status in the world. Mu = 100. Queen Latifah was originally Dana Elaine Owens. King Gillette was er....King Gillette. |
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Speak a ommon spelling error list (hints on demand)
"Janet" wrote
| Do Americans use names like Earl, Prince, Princess, | Duke, to indicate their social class? | | If so, which? | Prince and princess. They refer to someone who's irredeemably spoiled. It's often used in reference to Jews, but could be anyone. A sample joke from George Lopez, complaining about his girlfriend who he says is a Mexican-American princess: "The difference between a Mexican-American princess and a Jewish American princess is that with the Mexican one, the *orgasms* are real and the *jelwelry* is fake." He used that in his standup routine. These days it probably wouldn't get work due to political correctness. But seriously, I'm not aware of any formal titles used by Americans. One of the notable differences is that while Brits are very class-conscious, Americans don't believe in class. We *are* class conscious, but we pretend the distinctions don't exist because we idealize equality. So they're not formalized. |
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Speak a ommon spelling error list (hints on demand)
"Wolf K" wrote
| It's a variation of Cherie. Not in this case. It was a nickname. |
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On Wed, 30 Aug 2017 11:08:05 -0700, Ken Blake
wrote: On Wed, 30 Aug 2017 12:45:30 -0400, "Jonathan N. Little" wrote: Ken Blake wrote: On Wed, 30 Aug 2017 13:34:43 +0100, "NY" wrote: One of those class/regional distinctions is the use of the word "dinner". In upper/middle class usage, especially in the south of England, it refers to the evening meal. But in working class, northern usage it often refers to the mid-day meal, with the evening meal being referred to as "tea". However even in the south, the mid-day meal in a school is always referred to as "dinner", as in "school dinners", "dinner money" (the money you take to school each week and give to the teacher to pay for that week's meals) and "dinner ladies" (the women, often parents of children at the school, who supervise the meals, making sure that everyone queues up and files into the dining room in an orderly fashion). The same in the US. The word "dinner" is used differently in different parts of the US. To me, dinner is the evening meal; to some others it's what I call "lunch" (or better, "luncheon," but that word is fading fast), and the evening meal is called "supper." It's somewhat similar in Italian with the usage of "cenare" and "pranzare." Well the way I was taught lunch is a midday meal and luncheon is a *formal* midday meal. "Lunch" is a verb and "luncheon" is a noun. At least that's the way it used to be. Hardly anyone makes that distinction now; "lunch" has become a noun and "luncheon" is rarely used.. "Luncheons" are still attended by groups of ladies. The phrase "Ladies who lunch" is described as "well-off, well-dressed women who meet for social luncheons, usually during the working week. Typically, the women involved are married and non-working. Normally the lunch is in a high-class restaurant, but could also take place in a department store during a shopping trip. Sometimes the lunch takes place under the pretext of raising money for charity." -- Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida |
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On Wed, 30 Aug 2017 18:39:48 +0100, Janet wrote:
In article , am says... That's another thing one doesn't generally see in the US: Social class being indicated by the silliness of one's nickname. Do Americans use names like Earl, Prince, Princess, Duke, to indicate their social class? If so, which? That's a tough question to address because the answer may be answers, and the answers regional. In my own observation, "Earl" is a male first name that doesn't denote social class in any way, and is used more in the South than in the North or East. Prince and Princess are often the first names of African Americans. My grandsons have been on both football and baseball teams with a "Prince", and it was not the same "Prince". One of them has a sister named "Princess". "Duke" is usually a nickname. I've never met a "Duke" with that as a given name. (My parents had a German Shepard by the name of "Duke".) But, to social class, look to nicknames. If you come across a Muffy, Missy, Bitsy, Trip, Trey, or Scooter, they probably come from a socially prominent family. All above are based on personal observations and not to be taken as reliable information. Except the bit about my parent's dog. Oh, and my grandson's teammates. -- Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida |
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On 30/8/17 8:58 am, Wolf K wrote:
On 2017-08-29 20:08, Robert Bannister wrote: On 30/8/17 6:06 am, Wolf K wrote: On 2017-08-29 17:03, Ken Blake wrote: On Tue, 29 Aug 2017 21:38:33 +0100, Â* wrote: [...]robably because my parents do as well and it's what I have heard all my life. I'm also reminded of the obsolete spelling of the past-participle of the verb "show", as typified by the notice "All tickets must be shewn" on old buses. My dad remembers thinking that this was an absurd spelling of "shown", even when he was growing up in the 1940s. I think that's just a British spelling. It's never used in the US. It was spelt thus, actually, into the early 1900s, especially by New England writers. Its disappearance in current US spelling reminds me of the disappearance of "practise", a devil of a word, since it was supposedly a different word than "practice", and one was supposed to know when to use which spelling. In speech of course there's no difference at all, which shews you how silly it is to insist on some spelling variations. They are really class-markers; most rules of "correct English" are about class, not grammar. There is a whole series of pairs with c and s, where c is the noun: advice, prophecy, practice, licence and s is the verb] advise, prophesy, practise, license. Some, like advice/advise sound different, other don't, but the noun/verb rule remains. Nothing to do with class. Erm, the linguists who study these things beg to differ. The c/s distinction doesn't apply to other verb/noun pairs, such a price/price. I made a mistake when I wrote "rule", but I didn't mean to suggest that the phenomenon applies to all word pairs anyway. Very few patterns in English work across the whole language. Or with /z/ phoneme, surprise/surprise. IOW, it's not a rule, it's a convention. Where noun and verb are pronounced the same, it's a class marker to observe the distinct spellings: only the "properly educated" observe it. Nor is "properly educated" the same as "well educated". I still don't see it as a class marker, but it did become a whole lot harder when Mr Webster decided to spell the noun "licence" with an s. Then there's vice/vise. Technically, one's a behaviour, the other's a tool. But the spelling vice for vise has been around for at least a century. I first saw it in an old machinist's handbook, which had adverts for tools in the back. I was somewhat surprised. BTW, recently I've noticed more and more people pronouncing "prophesy" and "prophecy" the same way. Odd, but there it is. -- Robert B. born England a long time ago; Western Australia since 1972 |
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Speak a ommon spelling error list (hints on demand)
On 30/8/17 10:00 pm, Mayayana wrote:
"Athel Cornish-Bowden" wrote | If you're addressing a cat, it's OK to say "Here, pussy" | | Agreed. No problem at all if you're addressing a cat. | I'm familiar with that, of course, but my point is that calling a cat pussy has pretty much gone out of usage in the US. When I heard someone say it in England I understood. But I was also taken aback. If you come to the US and say "Here pussy" there may be people around you trying to hide chuckles. Interestingly, the British woman I heard referring to her pussy [cat] was a very snobbish and proper type, yet she went by the name Cherry. So Cherry was talking about her pussy.... you can't make this stuff up. That's another thing one doesn't generally see in the US: Social class being indicated by the silliness of one's nickname. I thought that bit about silly nicknames was mostly a 1920s phenomenon and that it did occur in the eastern United States too among the same class of people. -- Robert B. born England a long time ago; Western Australia since 1972 |
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Speak a ommon spelling error list (hints on demand)
In article , tonycooper214
@gmail.com says... On Wed, 30 Aug 2017 18:39:48 +0100, Janet wrote: In article , am says... That's another thing one doesn't generally see in the US: Social class being indicated by the silliness of one's nickname. Do Americans use names like Earl, Prince, Princess, Duke, to indicate their social class? If so, which? That's a tough question to address because the answer may be answers, and the answers regional. In my own observation, "Earl" is a male first name that doesn't denote social class in any way, and is used more in the South than in the North or East. Prince and Princess are often the first names of African Americans. My grandsons have been on both football and baseball teams with a "Prince", and it was not the same "Prince". One of them has a sister named "Princess". "Duke" is usually a nickname. I've never met a "Duke" with that as a given name. (My parents had a German Shepard by the name of "Duke".) But, to social class, look to nicknames. If you come across a Muffy, Missy, Bitsy, Trip, Trey, or Scooter, they probably come from a socially prominent family. :-) To Brits, those are all names for dogs. All above are based on personal observations and not to be taken as reliable information. Except the bit about my parent's dog. Oh, and my grandson's teammates. Janet. |
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