having trouble again opening pdf files

"Paul" wrote

| A scan of PDFStudioViewer_win64.exe with Virustotal
| mentions Java.
|

I wondered about that, as their site mentions it. If
it needs Java that's probably a couple hundred more
MB of insecure bloat... just to read PDFs. I've never
had Java and never needed it.

On 02/25/2018 03:59 PM, Mayayana wrote:
"Paul" wrote

| A scan of PDFStudioViewer_win64.exe with Virustotal
| mentions Java.
|

I wondered about that, as their site mentions it. If
it needs Java that's probably a couple hundred more
MB of insecure bloat... just to read PDFs. I've never
had Java and never needed it.



You only need java for those documents that have it
embedded

T wrote:
On 02/25/2018 03:59 PM, Mayayana wrote:
"Paul" wrote

| A scan of PDFStudioViewer_win64.exe with Virustotal
| mentions Java.
|

I wondered about that, as their site mentions it. If
it needs Java that's probably a couple hundred more
MB of insecure bloat... just to read PDFs. I've never
had Java and never needed it.



You only need java for those documents that have it
embedded

Javascript is embedded in PDF. The same Javascript used
in browsers as a scripting language when HTML isn't enough.

In PDF, it is used for example, to create "intelligent"
input boxes for PDF forms. The IRS could make a form asking
for your DOB, and only certain DOB formats would be accepted.
A piece of Javascript in the form would "vet" your attempts
at entering your DOB and reject things like European format.
I've seen at least one PDF sample here from a while ago,
which had such a box in it. The form would only really
work properly in Acrobat (which supports all the crap
they poured into PDF). Part of the reason for pouring
crap into PDF, is to make it harder for others to duplicate
the level of support.

You can even embed a movie in a PDF, but who knows how
you print that.

*******

The PDFStudioViewer appears to be written in Java.
I can see some .jar files in there. What I can't figure
out, is what flavor of Java runtime support the package uses.

And even decoding the acronyms is a pain.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JNI

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_virtual_machine

As for .jar files, they're just .zip files, just
as .docx and .xlsx and .pptx are .zip files. Everybody
loves compression and containers it seems. And this makes
7ZIP all the more valuable as a can opener.

Paul

"Paul" wrote

| In PDF, it is used for example, to create "intelligent"
| input boxes for PDF forms. The IRS could make a form asking
| for your DOB, and only certain DOB formats would be accepted.
....
|| I've seen at least one PDF sample here from a while ago,
| which had such a box in it. The form would only really
| work properly in Acrobat (which supports all the crap
| they poured into PDF). Part of the reason for pouring
| crap into PDF, is to make it harder for others to duplicate
| the level of support.
|

I do my taxes with PDF XChange Viewer. It does ask
if I want to enable javascript with some of them (though
I disable script by default). I never have enabled it and
have never had any problems. Maybe there can be a
PDF that breaks outside of Acrobat. I wouldn't be surprised.
But I've never seen one. Such a form could only be
shared among people who had bought the wildly overpriced,
full Acrobat program. If I got such a PDF I'd call the
sender to tell them their PDF is faulty.
What I typically see is the other extreme: MA state
tax forms won't even allow input. I have to export the
page as an image, fill it out in Paint Shop Pro, then
import it back in. In the home of MIT we can't get a
functional PDF form!

| The PDFStudioViewer appears to be written in Java.
| I can see some .jar files in there. What I can't figure
| out, is what flavor of Java runtime support the package uses.
|

Why would you care? Why would anyone
use a Java-dependent program like that, or
even install Java at all?
The free PDFStudioViewer install is about
10 times the size of the free PDFXV install, yet
doesn't provide nearly so much functionality.

On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 08:30:48 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:

There are several choices of pdf readers. Even though it's the
most popular, I don't like and recommend against Adobe Reader. I
use and recommend Sumatra Reader, and Foxit Reader is also good.
They are both free.

Edge displays PDF files and comes free with the OS.

On Mon, 26 Feb 2018 17:46:38 +0000, mechanic
wrote:

On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 08:30:48 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:

There are several choices of pdf readers. Even though it's the
most popular, I don't like and recommend against Adobe Reader. I
use and recommend Sumatra Reader, and Foxit Reader is also good.
They are both free.

Edge displays PDF files and comes free with the OS.

I think that most people - even those of us loyal to Microsoft - try
to avoid using it. I gave that piece of trash a chance on more than
one occasion and it has disappointed me every single time.

mechanic wrote:
On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 08:30:48 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:

There are several choices of pdf readers. Even though it's the
most popular, I don't like and recommend against Adobe Reader. I
use and recommend Sumatra Reader, and Foxit Reader is also good.
They are both free.

Edge displays PDF files and comes free with the OS.

OK, lets have a contest.

Tell me which page the word "AddNodeIfNotThere" first
appears on, in the following document. Go ahead, use Edge.

https://download.microsoft.com/downl...er_2006_R2.pdf

Everyone else can join in, because I don't really know which
tool is the fastest at this.

It looks like the tool I bet on, has tipped over, so my
race horse is out of the race now.

*******

And a shoutout to Microsoft, for deleting a ton of technical
pages on their web server, and offering that "documentary whale"
as the replacement. Thanks.

Paul

On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 14:59:07 -0800, T wrote:

On 02/25/2018 02:02 PM, Andy Burns wrote:
Ken Blake wrote:

I don't like and recommend against Adobe Reader. I use and
recommend Sumatra Reader

+1

I recommended Adobe's only because it is common.


As far as I'm concerned, that's the worst possible reason to recommend
it. Recommendations should be based on what's best, not on what's most
common.


It is
also required for Quick Books as well as a few others.


I don't know QuickBooks, so I can't be sure I'm right, but I have a
very hard time believing that that's the only pdf reader that would
work with it.

On Mon, 26 Feb 2018 17:46:38 +0000, mechanic
wrote:

On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 08:30:48 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:

There are several choices of pdf readers. Even though it's the
most popular, I don't like and recommend against Adobe Reader. I
use and recommend Sumatra Reader, and Foxit Reader is also good.
They are both free.

Edge displays PDF files and comes free with the OS.


Yes, but that doesn't make it the best choice. As far as I'm
concerned, it's the worst available browser, and I always recommend
against using it for anything.

On Mon, 26 Feb 2018 15:02:48 -0500, Doomsdrzej wrote:

On Mon, 26 Feb 2018 17:46:38 +0000, mechanic
wrote:

On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 08:30:48 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:

There are several choices of pdf readers. Even though it's the
most popular, I don't like and recommend against Adobe Reader. I
use and recommend Sumatra Reader, and Foxit Reader is also good.
They are both free.

Edge displays PDF files and comes free with the OS.

I think that most people - even those of us loyal to Microsoft - try
to avoid using it. I gave that piece of trash a chance on more than
one occasion and it has disappointed me every single time.




A very strong ditto!

On 02/26/2018 03:42 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 14:59:07 -0800, T wrote:

On 02/25/2018 02:02 PM, Andy Burns wrote:
Ken Blake wrote:

I don't like and recommend against Adobe Reader. I use and
recommend Sumatra Reader

+1

I recommended Adobe's only because it is common.


As far as I'm concerned, that's the worst possible reason to recommend
it. Recommendations should be based on what's best, not on what's most
common.

I agree. "most common" because that is what other programs
expect to see. The bad guys too. It is what it is.

I wish people would stop using Windows altogether, but they
would not be able to do their work a the apps just are
not in Linux and Apple. It is what it is.

When IBM tested Windows versus OSx on 5,400 devices, call
to their help desk plummeted from 40 percent of all users
to 5 percent. Windows quality is crap.

Reference:
http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2015/10/...o-windows.html

As I said, it is what it is. How IBM managed to get
those 5,400 devices to work without Windows software
is not stated. But, I do know that IBM has a lot
of developers that can write their own stuff for
them. Small business does not have that luxury.

It is what it is.

It is
also required for Quick Books as well as a few others.


I don't know QuickBooks, so I can't be sure I'm right, but I have a
very hard time believing that that's the only pdf reader that would
work with it.

QuickBooks uses Acrobat Reader to render the pages it prints.
QuickBooks should do it themselves, but they don't. They also
requires dll's from Excel to render spreadsheet. Again, they
should do it themselves, but they don't.

If you don't have Acrobat Reader installed, QuickBooks will bitch
at you every time it starts and will not print.

What the user sees in QuickBooks is done rather well. What
the IT folks see is a hodgepodge, gum and tape, kluge.
I wish GNU Cash would do payroll and inventory, but
....

it is what it is.

On 02/26/2018 03:44 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
On Mon, 26 Feb 2018 15:02:48 -0500, Doomsdrzej wrote:

On Mon, 26 Feb 2018 17:46:38 +0000, mechanic
wrote:

On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 08:30:48 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:

There are several choices of pdf readers. Even though it's the
most popular, I don't like and recommend against Adobe Reader. I
use and recommend Sumatra Reader, and Foxit Reader is also good.
They are both free.

Edge displays PDF files and comes free with the OS.

I think that most people - even those of us loyal to Microsoft - try
to avoid using it. I gave that piece of trash a chance on more than
one occasion and it has disappointed me every single time.




A very strong ditto!


2+

On 02/26/2018 03:43 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
On Mon, 26 Feb 2018 17:46:38 +0000, mechanic
wrote:

On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 08:30:48 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:

There are several choices of pdf readers. Even though it's the
most popular, I don't like and recommend against Adobe Reader. I
use and recommend Sumatra Reader, and Foxit Reader is also good.
They are both free.

Edge displays PDF files and comes free with the OS.


Yes, but that doesn't make it the best choice. As far as I'm
concerned, it's the worst available browser, and I always recommend
against using it for anything.


1+

On new Windows Nein, oooops, Ten installations, I remove the Edge
icon and substitute it with Internet Explorer's. Too many
customers bitch about Edge.

I also install Firefox with uBlock Orgin and Brave, which has
an ad blocker build in. If it doesn't work in one, try the
another one.

Ken Blake wrote:
On Mon, 26 Feb 2018 17:46:38 +0000, mechanic
wrote:

On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 08:30:48 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:

There are several choices of pdf readers. Even though it's the
most popular, I don't like and recommend against Adobe Reader. I
use and recommend Sumatra Reader, and Foxit Reader is also good.
They are both free.
Edge displays PDF files and comes free with the OS.


Yes, but that doesn't make it the best choice. As far as I'm
concerned, it's the worst available browser, and I always recommend
against using it for anything.

That experiment I posted about, a while ago,
had a most unexpected outcome.

Edge was actually able to do a search through the
entire document (the interface at first, offered no
feedback, so I was fooled into thinking it was only
searching the current page I was on). It eventually found
the text string I wanted to use as a benchmark, somewhere
after the 31000 page mark. But I wasn't standing in front
of the machine when it finished.

It even managed to display the page number it was on.

However, just switching applications, and going from Edge
to other things, the page number display was lost, and I could
no longer tell what page I was on. (You're supposed to know
that you click the mouse on the display surface to bring the
toolbar back.)

What happened after that was downright weird.

It looks like if Edge opens a 36000 page PDF file,
it places a strain on the HTML/JS subsystem (Apps are affected).
Clicking on a File Explorer icon yields no reaction for 20 seconds
or so. In Task Manager, some SVCHOST rails on one core
while this is going on. The mouse cursor works like normal,
so it's probably not a video card or video driver problem.
There is still plenty of memory. The CPU isn't all chewed to
bits. Just one service in a SVCHOST seems to be involved
in reducing the desktop environment to being unresponsive
to mouse input.

On one occasion, just opening Task Manager revealed
a "white sheet" instead of a list of processes. When
that SVCHOST finally stopped looping, the Task Manager
painted as normal.

What a pile of bubble gum and binder twine. Yikes.

Now I will *definitely* not be doing this experiment
a second time.

It took so long for my File Explorer folder to open,
I forgot I was trying to get to Process Explorer, to
see what's in the SVCHOST :-/

RpcSs sechost.dll!LsaFreeMemory Rails on one core

Graphics update normally (Task Manager shows the SVCHOST railed,
status updates once a second or so as it should).

But clicking on desktop elements results in a long delay, until
the click is dispatched to the thing clicked. The click is
registered, when the RpcSs activity drops back to zero again.

The problem... A SVCHOST stays railed for maybe 20 seconds.

https://s14.postimg.org/6ba7eypc1/Rpc_Ss_busy_loop.gif

The task... Open a 36000 page PDF and search for a text string.

https://s14.postimg.org/dei2unfcx/Edge_Opens_pdf.gif

The sample file. A big PDF.

https://download.microsoft.com/downl...er_2006_R2.pdf

Paul

Paul wrote:

Tell me which page the word "AddNodeIfNotThere" first
appears on, in the following document. Go ahead, use Edge.

https://download.microsoft.com/downl...er_2006_R2.pdf

Sumatra 24 seconds to load the 36,000 pages
then 486 seconds to find the first occurrence on page 31318