XP SP2

Just laughing here about the fact that you are getting the infamous MVP
dodge when it comes to your real point.

Why doesn't M$ have the common decency to add code to their updates
that will check a system before installing itself to make sure all
known problems this update might have with a system are taken care of?

Answer, show me where M$ has ever given a crap in the past about such
things and there is your answer and the reason you are getting the MVP
dodge. M$'s own track record shows that they don't give a crap, never
ever gave a crap and don't intend on starting any time soon at giving a
crap. What was it your friend's son that worked for them said?
Something like Code it as quickly as possible and throw it out there
and see what happens.

FYI, don't try to discuss common sense about M$'s ethics and way of
doing business with an MVP. That's like trying to discuss wife abuse
with Henry the 8th.

You made one single mistake about M$ taking SP2 off the auto update
market and that is what the MVP capitalized on instead of what your
articulate message was really all about. The MVP dodge we call it.
You make too much common sense to be wasting your time trying to have a
proper conversation with M$'s clone squad. They are hard wired to be
nothing less than 100% Praise the Gods for M$ and everything it stands
for and everything it does. Let us all bend down and kiss M$'s rosy
red butt hole types.

Later Dude,
NIK

***Email address is a spam trap***


Shooter wrote:
On Wed, 20 Apr 2005 12:34:15 -0600, "Jupiter Jones [MVP]"
wrote:

The reality you seem to ignore is modern computing is hi tech.
Consumers MUST endeavour to learn more.

Yes, and in a perfect world they would. However, the reality you
refer to also dictates that the majority of the today's computing
world is still made up of "old school", Mom & Pop types that for
whatever reason, do not have the time, do not wish to take the time,
could care less, its over my head or any other number of reasons do
not wish or want to know any more than how to turn it on, do their
business and turn it off. Until my generation dies off, the majority
of computer users will be that way.

My argument is not that MS should stop progressive developments and
enhancements to its product(s) but that it needs to use a little more
common sense in the administering and distribution of those
developments and enhancements as far as looking at who the majority
of
its clientele is at this specific time in computing history.

Remember, when MS first made SP2 available, they made it through the
auto update feature. Even knowing and even presenting multiple pages
on their site to the fact that SP2 will jump up and bite you in the
arse if you don't have all ducks in a row on your system, they still
made it an auto update knowing full well that all those Mom & Pop
systems out there set on auto update/install were NOT going to have
their ducks in a row. A disaster in waiting if you will....

I have nothing against SP2 but I do think MS was derelict for not
taking into account the known fact that at this time in computing
history that the majority of computer users are still Mom & Pop users
with systems set on auto update/install and no matter what you do,
will never have their computing ducks in a row. Now, we see that MS
took SP2 off auto update and made it where you have to physically
commit to its installation instead of having it automatically
installed in the background. The way such a "volatile" upgrade
should
have been offered in the first place.

Whether any of us like it or not, the present day majority of the
computing public is the lowest common denominator and nothing but the
passing of that generation (of which I am one) will change that. For
MS to disassociate itself with that fact and do business as if
everyone has their ducks in a row is nothing short of a misplaced
arrogance.

But Microsoft has come a long way in the last few years with such
basic
changes as a firewall now enabled by default.

Yes but you and I are talking apples and oranges Jupiter. I am
talking about upgrades and updates that can be extremely hazardous if
installed on a system that has certain and/or specific problems that
have not been addressed before the installation. It is my argument
that MS needs to at the least incorporate code in volatile
updates/upgrades to check for those problems before installing itself
and to abort the installation if certain parameters/situations are
not
met. Again, saving the Mom and Pop majority out there from their own
computing illiteracy. After that generation is gone, then those
safeguards will not have to be incorporated in all volatile
upgrades/updates but until then.......

Hey Jupiter, do it for your tired old mother (grin).

For the most part proactive users can prevent most problems without
the help
of Microsoft.

Very true. Too bad the majority of the computing public isn't there
yet.

But there is almost nothing Microsoft can do to achieve reasonable
security until more people take the safety and security of their
computer more
seriously.

True again but they can take measures to guard the computer
illiterates from having their systems melt down due to volatile MS
updates/upgrades by incorporating code to do a pre check of the
system
before allowing the installation.

Then there is always the option of getting rid of the computer and
going
back to paper and pencil.

No, just wait for the paper and pencil crowd to pass on.

Just to sum the whole mess up.... we are in a transition era of
computing history. There are two main groups involved. Your basic
pencil and paper crowd trying to look cool and hip with a computer
and
your techno generation born with computers. Right now, the majority
is made up of that pencil and paper crowd and whether we or MS likes
it or not, they are the big consumer right now and MS better address
the way it supplies its support for that crowd. Let me say that one
more time.... That paper and pencil crowd is your major consumer
right
now, even in their own blind computer illiterate way. When the
majority becomes the present day techno crowd, then MS can offer
support the way it does now... which is assuming you have your ducks
in a row before letting this latest thing install itself.

Regards,

Clearly you have no clue.
Can you provide anything of value?
Or are you only capable of insults?
Your posting history suggests the second.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
In memory of our dear friend, MVP Alex Nichol
http://www.dts-l.org


wrote in message
oups.com...
Just laughing here about the fact that you are getting the infamous MVP
dodge when it comes to your real point.

Why doesn't M$ have the common decency to add code to their updates
that will check a system before installing itself to make sure all
known problems this update might have with a system are taken care of?

Answer, show me where M$ has ever given a crap in the past about such
things and there is your answer and the reason you are getting the MVP
dodge. M$'s own track record shows that they don't give a crap, never
ever gave a crap and don't intend on starting any time soon at giving a
crap. What was it your friend's son that worked for them said?
Something like Code it as quickly as possible and throw it out there
and see what happens.

FYI, don't try to discuss common sense about M$'s ethics and way of
doing business with an MVP. That's like trying to discuss wife abuse
with Henry the 8th.

You made one single mistake about M$ taking SP2 off the auto update
market and that is what the MVP capitalized on instead of what your
articulate message was really all about. The MVP dodge we call it.
You make too much common sense to be wasting your time trying to have a
proper conversation with M$'s clone squad. They are hard wired to be
nothing less than 100% Praise the Gods for M$ and everything it stands
for and everything it does. Let us all bend down and kiss M$'s rosy
red butt hole types.

Later Dude,
NIK

***Email address is a spam trap***

"Leythos" wrote
and this applies to ALL OS'S [sic].

--

Don't mean to be picky but plurals NEVER use an apostrophe.

Alias

"Leythos" wrote
On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:16:24 +0200, Alias wrote:


"Leythos" wrote
and this applies to ALL OS'S [sic].

--

Don't mean to be picky but plurals NEVER use an apostrophe.

Yea, but who's going to understand OSS


OSs. Or, you could spell it out: operating systems.

Alias

"Leythos" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:25:06 +0200, Alias wrote:

"Leythos" wrote
On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:16:24 +0200, Alias wrote:


"Leythos" wrote
and this applies to ALL OS'S [sic].

--

Don't mean to be picky but plurals NEVER use an apostrophe.

Yea, but who's going to understand OSS

OSs. Or, you could spell it out: operating systems.

Alias

Wasn't the OSS one of those bad groups to belong to in the 40s?

--

The Office of Strategic Services was the precursor to the CIA.

Now, it's
http://www.oss.net/extra/tools/parse...rse/index.html
or Open Source Solutions.

Go figure ...

Alias

[quote=Snip[/QUOTE]
Just a quick look through the boards at www.pcbanter.net will touch on current problems; (MS newsgroups)
My H. drive disappeared
I can't see my network.
My cd/dvd drives disappeared.
I can't access my USB devices.
Firewire devices not seen.
I can't access the internet; broadband & dial-up.
No DV camera capture; or camera not recognized.
Printing problems, scanner problems.

My question is why did all this hardware work with SP1, but not SP2?

Was it the spyware that worked with SP1, but won't work with SP2?

Was it the crappy native SP1 drivers for hardware that worked, that SP2 fixed?

How much information will the "average user," need to fix hardware that wasn't broken before SP2?

Why were certain April 12th. updates allowed to break systems again?

It seems like the common thread is, if it ain't broke yet just wait; we're working on it!
Jeez,
Treeman

On 20 Apr 2005 20:57:30 -0700, wrote:

FYI, don't try to discuss common sense about M$'s ethics and way of
doing business with an MVP. That's like trying to discuss wife abuse
with Henry the 8th.

I haven't been here long and don't know the rules yet. However, I
will watch my step around here from now on. I thought I was giving a
constructive point of view in a courteous way but...... I guess what
you are saying is if I play in their backyard then don't say anything
negative about the Boss. Consider me as educated and put in my place.

You made one single mistake about M$ taking SP2 off the auto update
market and that is what the MVP capitalized on instead of what your
articulate message was really all about.

Well, I noticed that but opted to let it go. My daughter used the
same tactics when she was a child so its not a new tactic to me. I
started seeing where the whole thing was headed after that and it
didn't appear that it was going to be allowed to continue as a
courteous exchange of opposing views concerning the main content of
the message which was never addressed. I also see that I misspelled a
word so I guess that really puts me on the outs.

Like I said... I see how it works around here now and will keep my
mouth shut and stay in my place.

Have a good day....

Leythos writes:
On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:14:27 -0400, Shooter wrote:
On 20 Apr 2005 20:57:30 -0700, wrote:

FYI, don't try to discuss common sense about M$'s ethics and way of
doing business with an MVP. That's like trying to discuss wife abuse
with Henry the 8th.

I haven't been here long and don't know the rules yet. However, I will
watch my step around here from now on. I thought I was giving a
constructive point of view in a courteous way but...... I guess what
you are saying is if I play in their backyard then don't say anything
negative about the Boss. Consider me as educated and put in my place.

I think, with only a few exceptions, that if you post a valid complaint
about a MS method or action that there are no negative responses to it, in
fact, many of the MVP's may agree with it - provided that it was valid.

In your case, to suggest that MS should do something that none of the
other OS vendors are doing, to criticize them for the failings of the OS
user (or the ignorance of the user), is not a valid complaint.

Perhaps because none of the other vendors NEEDED to address some of his
points.

Example: Microsoft dealing with a billion dollar SP2 security fix to
deal with "vast numbers of compromised machines" as has been claimed
here by the MS MVP, preparing itself to be installed on... oh, I
don't know... compromised machines.

So, why wouldn't say Apple need to do the same? Well, according to the
media the word was that there was ONE Mac OS virus found in 2004 and ZERO
for the couple of years prior to that. I believe that was what the count
was that was published by several national sources a few months ago. Got
a count of the number of viruses that swept the MS world last year?

That seems valid to me. But I expect you will shriek your refusal,
based on previous postings.

Or, to put this a different way, I guess if you dig yourself a hole,
you accept the consequences of what you chose to do.

"didn't appear that it was going to be allowed to continue as a courteous
exchange"
If that is what you saw, perhaps what you saw was yourself.

"and will keep my mouth shut and stay in my place."
Really? Where is "my place"?

Also note who started and finished the insults in this


As for the rest, if you read the thread again, you may find the answers to
what you asked already posted.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
In memory of our dear friend, MVP Alex Nichol
http://www.dts-l.org


"Shooter" fhasfdjh@AlkjdaF@com wrote in message
...
On 20 Apr 2005 20:57:30 -0700, wrote:

FYI, don't try to discuss common sense about M$'s ethics and way of
doing business with an MVP. That's like trying to discuss wife abuse
with Henry the 8th.

I haven't been here long and don't know the rules yet. However, I
will watch my step around here from now on. I thought I was giving a
constructive point of view in a courteous way but...... I guess what
you are saying is if I play in their backyard then don't say anything
negative about the Boss. Consider me as educated and put in my place.

You made one single mistake about M$ taking SP2 off the auto update
market and that is what the MVP capitalized on instead of what your
articulate message was really all about.

Well, I noticed that but opted to let it go. My daughter used the
same tactics when she was a child so its not a new tactic to me. I
started seeing where the whole thing was headed after that and it
didn't appear that it was going to be allowed to continue as a
courteous exchange of opposing views concerning the main content of
the message which was never addressed. I also see that I misspelled a
word so I guess that really puts me on the outs.

Like I said... I see how it works around here now and will keep my
mouth shut and stay in my place.

Have a good day....

You know, what we had here was a "new guy" that from everything I
read in the thread was trying to engage you in a courteous exchange
about something that bothered him about M$. Not once did he ever
attack you, flame you or say anything bad about you or directed toward
you. Being the new guy, he hadn't become familiar with your typical
way of spewing venom at anyone that doesn't bend down and lick on
MS's rear end all day long like you clones are bred to do. You
proved beyond a shadow of a doubt the little prick you really are.

However, there is a positive side to all this and that is that you and
your usual puffed up venomous attitude toward others confirmed without
a doubt what the new guy was suggesting about a contemptuous attitude
that M$ and all its clones have toward the public. You fell into that
one like a glove without even knowing you did.

No matter how hard you try, you just can't be decent even to the new
people coming here trying to engaging in courteous adult level
communications. Your venom and disrespect of others is hard wired by
M$ and a questionable upbringing I suppose. You are a perfect
representative for what I think M$ really is. You are the culmination
of all that is sad and bad about M$.

***To the new guy,***
Don't let this puffed up peacock's usual venomous attitude chase
you off the group. From your posts, you appear to be an articulate,
nice, courteous person of which this group needs more. Believe it or
not, there actually are some decent people on here that can help when
needed and I'm sure you have things that can help others. Just
don't waste your time trying to have positive communications with
known jackasses like this Jupiter joke. And since the Cloned Jackass
forgot to mention while spewing out its usual venom.... Welcome to the
group and we appreciate you courtesy.

NIK





Jupiter Jones [MVP] wrote:
"didn't appear that it was going to be allowed to continue as a
courteous
exchange"
If that is what you saw, perhaps what you saw was yourself.

"and will keep my mouth shut and stay in my place."
Really? Where is "my place"?

Also note who started and finished the insults in this


As for the rest, if you read the thread again, you may find the
answers to
what you asked already posted.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
In memory of our dear friend, MVP Alex Nichol
http://www.dts-l.org


"Shooter" fhasfdjh@AlkjdaF@com wrote in message
...
On 20 Apr 2005 20:57:30 -0700,
wrote:

FYI, don't try to discuss common sense about M$'s ethics and way of
doing business with an MVP. That's like trying to discuss wife
abuse
with Henry the 8th.

I haven't been here long and don't know the rules yet. However, I
will watch my step around here from now on. I thought I was giving
a
constructive point of view in a courteous way but...... I guess
what
you are saying is if I play in their backyard then don't say
anything
negative about the Boss. Consider me as educated and put in my
place.

You made one single mistake about M$ taking SP2 off the auto update
market and that is what the MVP capitalized on instead of what your
articulate message was really all about.

Well, I noticed that but opted to let it go. My daughter used the
same tactics when she was a child so its not a new tactic to me. I
started seeing where the whole thing was headed after that and it
didn't appear that it was going to be allowed to continue as a
courteous exchange of opposing views concerning the main content of
the message which was never addressed. I also see that I
misspelled a
word so I guess that really puts me on the outs.

Like I said... I see how it works around here now and will keep my
mouth shut and stay in my place.

Have a good day....

You continue to prove what I said in my last post.
The need you seem to have to insult is a good indicator you are incapable of
supporting your views.
If you were capable you would not need to shore up you point with insults.
True to your history, you continue to post nothing of value.
Insults is all you have contributed so far.
Post back only if you feel the need to have the last word.
Good bye

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
In memory of our dear friend, MVP Alex Nichol
http://www.dts-l.org


wrote in message
oups.com...
You know, what we had here was a "new guy" that from everything I
read in the thread was trying to engage you in a courteous exchange
about something that bothered him about M$. Not once did he ever
attack you, flame you or say anything bad about you or directed toward
you. Being the new guy, he hadn't become familiar with your typical
way of spewing venom at anyone that doesn't bend down and lick on
MS's rear end all day long like you clones are bred to do. You
proved beyond a shadow of a doubt the little prick you really are.

However, there is a positive side to all this and that is that you and
your usual puffed up venomous attitude toward others confirmed without
a doubt what the new guy was suggesting about a contemptuous attitude
that M$ and all its clones have toward the public. You fell into that
one like a glove without even knowing you did.

No matter how hard you try, you just can't be decent even to the new
people coming here trying to engaging in courteous adult level
communications. Your venom and disrespect of others is hard wired by
M$ and a questionable upbringing I suppose. You are a perfect
representative for what I think M$ really is. You are the culmination
of all that is sad and bad about M$.

***To the new guy,***
Don't let this puffed up peacock's usual venomous attitude chase
you off the group. From your posts, you appear to be an articulate,
nice, courteous person of which this group needs more. Believe it or
not, there actually are some decent people on here that can help when
needed and I'm sure you have things that can help others. Just
don't waste your time trying to have positive communications with
known jackasses like this Jupiter joke. And since the Cloned Jackass
forgot to mention while spewing out its usual venom.... Welcome to the
group and we appreciate you courtesy.

NIK

On 21 Apr 2005 17:44:40 -0700, wrote:

Welcome to the
group and we appreciate you courtesy.

Well thank you for that. I was just brought up to always interact in
a courteous way, even in the face of unpleasant individuals. The best
way to handle them is to ignore them and direct your energy and
interactions toward more courteous, pleasant people. I know it feels
good to throw their "Venom" back at them but that only brings you down
to their level and most of the time, they don't even understand that
what they are getting is a mirror reflection of what they are giving
out. They usually conveniently blind themselves to that fact.

So, thank you for the courtesy of your kind words and educating me to
who and what to watch out for around here. As evident, the whos make
themselves readily apparent.

Have a good day.....