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#1
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Amazing what Windows still doesn't do well.
On Sun, 28 Jun 2020 09:49:39 -0700 (PDT), Thomas E. wrote:
Try and set up an iPhone without an iCloud account. Even if you could do it the phone is crippled. Hi Thomas E., Regarding the errant claims by Alan Baker in this thread he authored: o Amazing what Windows still doesn't do well. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/7BV04N_AAEI "You can no longer set up a new PC without creating a Microsoft Account" Alan Baker posts purely for his own amusement... and he's always wrong. o Much like a child, he spends _zero_ energy to get his facts straight When you provide facts to apologists - they simply call all facts lies o And, of course, like childish bullies - they call bearers of facts liars As with cultists or flat earthers - facts are _dangerous_ to apologists. o The only way apologists can process facts is to simply deny they exist. Apple apologists like Alan Baker don't seem to ever care about actual facts o Does anyone on this newsgroup ever deal with FACTS? https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/ACAP8ckqmeo You are stating facts, which, over time, will get you filtered on this ng. o People on this ng _hate_ almost all actual facts about Apple products. They prefer to live in the imaginary world crafted for them by MARKETING. FACTS: 1. *An iOS device sans an iCloud account is crippled* (you can't add apps). 2. In addition, you're stuck with the _Apple advertiser ID privacy hole_. 3. Less important, the paltry 5GB iCloud storage is ridiculously puny. FACTS: 1. *An Android device sans a Google account works just fine. 2. In addition, the advertiser ID privacy hole simply doesn't exist.* 3. Less important, you can still have 15GB cloud storage if you want it. FACTS: 1. *I have Windows 10 Home & Pro and I do NOT have a Microsoft Account.* 2. In addition, you can turn off the Microsoft Windows advertising ID Settings Privacy General {turn everything off} 3. Less important, Microsoft offers "OneCloud" storage, but it's paltry. -- The only time I needed a Microsoft ID was when I converted a few inexpensive Windows 10S laptops to Windows 10 Home, where the conversion _required_ a momentary Microsoft Account, which I then deleted. |
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#2
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Amazing what Windows still doesn't do well.
On 6/28/2020 4:50 PM, Arlen Holder wrote:
On Sun, 28 Jun 2020 09:49:39 -0700 (PDT), Thomas E. wrote: Try and set up an iPhone without an iCloud account. Even if you could do it the phone is crippled. Hi Thomas E., Regarding the errant claims by Alan Baker in this thread he authored: o Amazing what Windows still doesn't do well. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/7BV04N_AAEI "You can no longer set up a new PC without creating a Microsoft Account" Alan Baker posts purely for his own amusement... and he's always wrong. o Much like a child, he spends _zero_ energy to get his facts straight When you provide facts to apologists - they simply call all facts lies o And, of course, like childish bullies - they call bearers of facts liars As with cultists or flat earthers - facts are _dangerous_ to apologists. o The only way apologists can process facts is to simply deny they exist. Apple apologists like Alan Baker don't seem to ever care about actual facts o Does anyone on this newsgroup ever deal with FACTS? https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/ACAP8ckqmeo You are stating facts, which, over time, will get you filtered on this ng. o People on this ng _hate_ almost all actual facts about Apple products. They prefer to live in the imaginary world crafted for them by MARKETING. FACTS: 1. *An iOS device sans an iCloud account is crippled* (you can't add apps). 2. In addition, you're stuck with the _Apple advertiser ID privacy hole_. 3. Less important, the paltry 5GB iCloud storage is ridiculously puny. FACTS: 1. *An Android device sans a Google account works just fine. 2. In addition, the advertiser ID privacy hole simply doesn't exist.* 3. Less important, you can still have 15GB cloud storage if you want it. FACTS: 1. *I have Windows 10 Home & Pro and I do NOT have a Microsoft Account.* 2. In addition, you can turn off the Microsoft Windows advertising ID Settings Privacy General {turn everything off} 3. Less important, Microsoft offers "OneCloud" storage, but it's paltry. I have not had a MS account since I upgraded from Windows 8. When I installed Windows 10, I created a MS account because it seem you had to. A short time later I created a local account and have gone through 18xx, 19xx, and now installed 2004 and a couple of fixes, without accessing the MS account. In fact I don't know if it is even active, or if it is I have no idea what the pass word is. |
#3
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Amazing what Windows still doesn't do well.
On 2020-06-28, knuttle wrote:
I have not had a MS account since I upgraded from Windows 8. When I installed Windows 10, I created a MS account because it seem you had to. Microsoft does its best to lie and trick people into doing so but don't have to. Typical MS dirty tricks. Don't connect to a network until initial setup is completed and you can create a local account. (Tell setup you don't have internet, and to continue with "limited setup". Then connect when you finally get to the desktop.) It is also a good idea to turn off all of the "features" offered during setup, then go into the privacy settings and turn everything off that you do not specifically need. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Roger Blake (Posts from Google Groups killfiled due to excess spam.) The US Census, what info must you give? -- http://censusfacts.info Don't talk to cops! -- http://www.DontTalkToCops.com Badges don't grant extra rights -- http://www.CopBlock.org The facts about Climate Change -- http://www.RealClimateScience.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ |
#4
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Amazing what Windows still doesn't do well.
On Mon, 29 Jun 2020 00:29:03 -0000 (UTC), Roger Blake wrote:
Microsoft does its best to lie and trick people into doing so but don't have to. Typical MS dirty tricks. Don't connect to a network until initial setup is completed and you can create a local account. (Tell setup you don't have internet, and to continue with "limited setup". Then connect when you finally get to the desktop.) Agreed that it's simple to tell Microsoft to "skip" creation of the Microsoft Account (exact same with Android - you just "skip" it). However, the OP, Alan Baker "claimed" it's difficult on the Mac forums: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/7BV04N_AAEI On Tuesday, June 23, 2020 at 5:47:26 PM UTC-4, Alan Baker wrote: Setting up a new PC for a client today (she had a panic when for some reason her laptop went into its BIOS-based diagnostic mode while in her case while driving home and now she doesn't trust it), and I have many observations of the silliness that is Microsoft: Here are a few: 1. You can no longer set up a new PC without creating a Microsoft Account; no local account option is available anymore; not at least running Windows 10 Home. Yes: there is apparently a workaround where you cut off the machine from internet access before trying to create the account, but it's still ridiculous that you're forced to use a fudge. 2. (And I should have mentioned this ages ago)... ...why is there no built-in utility for migrating your data from an old PC???? It is also a good idea to turn off all of the "features" offered during setup, then go into the privacy settings and turn everything off that you do not specifically need. Regarding the useful suggestion from Roger Blake: It is also a good idea to turn off all of the "features" offered during setup, then go into the privacy settings and turn everything off that you do not specifically need. Agreed that in every common consumer operating system (e.g., Android, iOS, Windows, and maybe even Linux), it's important to change the default to privacy-based defaults. On Windows & on Android the privacy-based settings are scattered all about, where some day I'll write up a comprehensive tutorial for both Windows & Android settings (although they keep moving them about). I've experimented with Android, in depth, for example, where it's surprisingly easy to turn off all "known" Google apps without losing functionality (which was a surprise, even to me that it was so easy): For example: o *My experiment turning all Android app permissions off* https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/FKjvRYbqgIw Where, surprisingly so, shockingly few had to be turned back on! o https://i.postimg.cc/8Cn1nNZf/killgoogle01.jpg o https://i.postimg.cc/d0Q1xWvp/killgoogle02.jpg o https://i.postimg.cc/DzwR5fYf/permission00.jpg o https://i.postimg.cc/Cx4m8LzJ/permission01.jpg o https://i.postimg.cc/pdGC0GQF/permission02.jpg o https://i.postimg.cc/xTvRrTyY/permission03.jpg o https://i.postimg.cc/QxWXjCfB/permission04.jpg o https://i.postimg.cc/xdc1W5Nm/permission05.jpg o https://i.postimg.cc/wxcg4Z4P/permission06.jpg o https://i.postimg.cc/SxHBxftC/permission07.jpg o https://i.postimg.cc/L8wMJx2c/permission08.jpg o https://i.postimg.cc/KjZ66VDM/permission09.jpg o https://i.postimg.cc/V6wptTTV/permission10.jpg o https://i.postimg.cc/HkmSks4V/permission12.jpg o https://i.postimg.cc/q7m1Lf6y/permission13.jpg o https://i.postimg.cc/fbwNRB1D/permission14.jpg In summary, it's amazing how _easy_ it is to turn off permissions in both Windows & Android, if you just look for the settings scattered about. -- Someday I will spend a few days to write up and fully document the steps. NOTE: Documentation takes far more time than does the experiment itself. |
#5
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Amazing what Windows still doesn't do well.
On 2020-06-28 9:26 p.m., Arlen Holder wrote:
On Mon, 29 Jun 2020 00:29:03 -0000 (UTC), Roger Blake wrote: Microsoft does its best to lie and trick people into doing so but don't have to. Typical MS dirty tricks. Don't connect to a network until initial setup is completed and you can create a local account. (Tell setup you don't have internet, and to continue with "limited setup". Then connect when you finally get to the desktop.) Agreed that it's simple to tell Microsoft to "skip" creation of the Microsoft Account (exact same with Android - you just "skip" it). No, actually. Microsoft has removed that option as a UI choice. Not setting up your internet is a fudge. |
#6
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Amazing what Windows still doesn't do well.
On 2020-06-28 9:26 p.m., Arlen Holder wrote:
On Mon, 29 Jun 2020 00:29:03 -0000 (UTC), Roger Blake wrote: Microsoft does its best to lie and trick people into doing so but don't have to. Typical MS dirty tricks. Don't connect to a network until initial setup is completed and you can create a local account. (Tell setup you don't have internet, and to continue with "limited setup". Then connect when you finally get to the desktop.) Agreed that it's simple to tell Microsoft to "skip" creation of the Microsoft Account (exact same with Android - you just "skip" it). Nope. It is no longer as simple as telling Microsoft to "skip" it... ....because there is no longer a button (or anything else) to click. |
#7
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Amazing what Windows still doesn't do well.
Alan Baker wrote:
On 2020-06-28 9:26 p.m., Arlen Holder wrote: On Mon, 29 Jun 2020 00:29:03 -0000 (UTC), Roger Blake wrote: Microsoft does its best to lie and trick people into doing so but don't have to. Typical MS dirty tricks. Don't connect to a network until initial setup is completed and you can create a local account. (Tell setup you don't have internet, and to continue with "limited setup". Then connect when you finally get to the desktop.) Agreed that it's simple to tell Microsoft to "skip" creation of the Microsoft Account (exact same with Android - you just "skip" it). Nope. It is no longer as simple as telling Microsoft to "skip" it... ...because there is no longer a button (or anything else) to click. It's there. Release 2004 tested in a virtual machine, so I can take pictures. https://i.postimg.cc/7YjwSXSF/local-acct-waltz.gif If the picture isn't sharp enough, use the "Download Original" at the top of the page. The necessary buttons are placed in a "darker" part of the screen in the hope you won't see them. Paul |
#8
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Amazing what Windows still doesn't do well.
On Mon, 29 Jun 2020 18:46:05 -0400, Paul wrote:
It's there. Release 2004 tested in a virtual machine, so I can take pictures. https://i.postimg.cc/7YjwSXSF/local-acct-waltz.gif If the picture isn't sharp enough, use the "Download Original" at the top of the page. The necessary buttons are placed in a "darker" part of the screen in the hope you won't see them. Paul Hi Paul, You're dealing with what Mayayana calls an "AppleSeed"... As usual, Alan Baker is fantastically _immune_ to obvious facts! o He just wants to complain about Windows by making up issues o And, he wants to claim iOS is functional without an Apple ID All sans even a single shred of actual adult cognition behind his claims. Let's see how this Type III apologist, who claimed many times it is not there, responds to your image showing that it _is_ actually the o https://i.postimg.cc/7YjwSXSF/local-acct-waltz.gif Given Alan Baker is the one who authored that thread, he should respond: o Amazing what Windows still doesn't do well. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/7BV04N_AAEI Bear in mind Apologists like Alan Baker are so afraid of Windows & Android that they have to fabricate completely imaginary issues that don't even exist (even as, Lord knows, there are _plenty_ of real issues on both platforms that we users discuss daily, openly, and factually). o Why are apologists like Alan Baker so fantastically immune to basic skills an adult should have on the Internet? https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/4AdaprOPM-g Let's see what 'adult' response Alan Baker has, to the facts you provided! o What are the common well-verified psychological traits of the Apple Apologists on this newsgroup? https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/miwGEINsoFQ -- The weird thing with Apple apologists is they feel Microsoft (Windows) & Google (Android) are both a dire threat to their very existence; and yet, nobody on Windows or Android feels Apple is in any way a threat to them. |
#9
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Amazing what Windows still doesn't do well.
On 2020-06-29 3:46 p.m., Paul wrote:
Alan Baker wrote: On 2020-06-28 9:26 p.m., Arlen Holder wrote: On Mon, 29 Jun 2020 00:29:03 -0000 (UTC), Roger Blake wrote: Microsoft does its best to lie and trick people into doing so but don't have to. Typical MS dirty tricks. Don't connect to a network until initial setup is completed and you can create a local account. (Tell setup you don't have internet, and to continue with "limited setup". Then connect when you finally get to the desktop.) Agreed that it's simple to tell Microsoft to "skip" creation of the Microsoft Account (exact same with Android - you just "skip" it). Nope. It is no longer as simple as telling Microsoft to "skip" it... ...because there is no longer a button (or anything else) to click. It's there. Release 2004 tested in a virtual machine, so I can take pictures. https://i.postimg.cc/7YjwSXSF/local-acct-waltz.gif If the picture isn't sharp enough, use the "Download Original" at the top of the page. The necessary buttons are placed in a "darker" part of the screen in the hope you won't see them. Nope. It is no longer there on Windows 10 Home. |
#10
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Amazing what Windows still doesn't do well.
Alan Baker wrote:
On 2020-06-29 3:46 p.m., Paul wrote: It's there. Release 2004 tested in a virtual machine, so I can take pictures. https://i.postimg.cc/7YjwSXSF/local-acct-waltz.gif If the picture isn't sharp enough, use the "Download Original" at the top of the page. The necessary buttons are placed in a "darker" part of the screen in the hope you won't see them. Nope. It is no longer there on Windows 10 Home. The only difference I see, is the taskbar might be a different color in Home. The account dialogs seem the same to me. https://i.postimg.cc/FRRDNMD8/local-Home-2004.gif Paul |
#11
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Amazing what Windows still doesn't do well.
On 2020-06-29 5:48 p.m., Paul wrote:
Alan Baker wrote: On 2020-06-29 3:46 p.m., Paul wrote: It's there. Release 2004 tested in a virtual machine, so I can take pictures. https://i.postimg.cc/7YjwSXSF/local-acct-waltz.gif If the picture isn't sharp enough, use the "Download Original" at the top of the page. The necessary buttons are placed in a "darker" part of the screen in the hope you won't see them. Nope. It is no longer there on Windows 10 Home. The only difference I see, is the taskbar might be a different color in Home. The account dialogs seem the same to me. https://i.postimg.cc/FRRDNMD8/local-Home-2004.gif Â*Â* Paul And what version of Windows 10 Home is that... ....because it is literally ALL OVER the web that Microsoft has made this change. |
#12
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Amazing what Windows still doesn't do well.
Alan Baker wrote:
On 2020-06-29 5:48 p.m., Paul wrote: Alan Baker wrote: On 2020-06-29 3:46 p.m., Paul wrote: It's there. Release 2004 tested in a virtual machine, so I can take pictures. https://i.postimg.cc/7YjwSXSF/local-acct-waltz.gif If the picture isn't sharp enough, use the "Download Original" at the top of the page. The necessary buttons are placed in a "darker" part of the screen in the hope you won't see them. Nope. It is no longer there on Windows 10 Home. The only difference I see, is the taskbar might be a different color in Home. The account dialogs seem the same to me. https://i.postimg.cc/FRRDNMD8/local-Home-2004.gif Paul And what version of Windows 10 Home is that... ...because it is literally ALL OVER the web that Microsoft has made this change. 2004. Name: Windows10-x64-2004.iso Size: 4144168960 bytes (3952 MiB) SHA1: A0D4D131ED24646B281BCE6F4E833CBBC10C7C12 I don't know if all the ones made by MediaCreationTool, match on checksum. The files are marked as .wim inside, rather than .esd, so the checksum should be listed somewhere. If you purchased Windows 8.1 electronically and downloaded it, the large file inside was a .esd file and the checksum on those was never the same. I even re-downloaded the image using my account details (from the purchase) and the checksum was different on the second downloaded disc. This destroys the ability to track materials by checksum. I don't think that method is being used, but, you never know. Mine is the 7 OS version DVD, which has Win10 Pro x64 and Win10 Home x64 and five others. And it's made by MediaCreationTool, which you get if you visit the download page with Windows 7 thru Windows 10. If a person pulls the version you get from a Linux (or a Mac browser), those will have a more consistent checksum. The difference is, the ISO doesn't fit single-layer media for the x64 one, and it has an additional four OSes on it. That's the 11 OS DVD version. That would give exactly the same install results for Win10 Pro x64 and Win10 Home x64 though. Paul |
#13
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Amazing what Windows still doesn't do well.
On 2020-06-29 6:24 p.m., Paul wrote:
Alan Baker wrote: On 2020-06-29 5:48 p.m., Paul wrote: Alan Baker wrote: On 2020-06-29 3:46 p.m., Paul wrote: It's there. Release 2004 tested in a virtual machine, so I can take pictures. https://i.postimg.cc/7YjwSXSF/local-acct-waltz.gif If the picture isn't sharp enough, use the "Download Original" at the top of the page. The necessary buttons are placed in a "darker" part of the screen in the hope you won't see them. Nope. It is no longer there on Windows 10 Home. The only difference I see, is the taskbar might be a different color in Home. The account dialogs seem the same to me. https://i.postimg.cc/FRRDNMD8/local-Home-2004.gif Â*Â*Â* Paul And what version of Windows 10 Home is that... ...because it is literally ALL OVER the web that Microsoft has made this change. 2004. Which is Name: Windows10-x64-2004.iso Size: 4144168960 bytes (3952 MiB) SHA1: A0D4D131ED24646B281BCE6F4E833CBBC10C7C12 I don't know if all the ones made by MediaCreationTool, match on checksum. The files are marked as .wim inside, rather than .esd, so the checksum should be listed somewhere. If you purchased Windows 8.1 electronically and downloaded it, the large file inside was a .esd file and the checksum on those was never the same. I even re-downloaded the image using my account details (from the purchase) and the checksum was different on the second downloaded disc. This destroys the ability to track materials by checksum. I don't think that method is being used, but, you never know. Mine is the 7 OS version DVD, which has Win10 Pro x64 and Win10 Home x64 and five others. And it's made by MediaCreationTool, which you get if you visit the download page with Windows 7 thru Windows 10. If a person pulls the version you get from a Linux (or a Mac browser), those will have a more consistent checksum. The difference is, the ISO doesn't fit single-layer media for the x64 one, and it has an additional four OSes on it. That's the 11 OS DVD version. That would give exactly the same install results for Win10 Pro x64 and Win10 Home x64 though. I don't know what to tell you. I set up a new HP PC for a client and no such option was present. I know, because I was there. |
#14
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Amazing what Windows still doesn't do well.
Alan Baker wrote:
On 2020-06-29 6:24 p.m., Paul wrote: Alan Baker wrote: On 2020-06-29 5:48 p.m., Paul wrote: Alan Baker wrote: On 2020-06-29 3:46 p.m., Paul wrote: It's there. Release 2004 tested in a virtual machine, so I can take pictures. https://i.postimg.cc/7YjwSXSF/local-acct-waltz.gif If the picture isn't sharp enough, use the "Download Original" at the top of the page. The necessary buttons are placed in a "darker" part of the screen in the hope you won't see them. Nope. It is no longer there on Windows 10 Home. The only difference I see, is the taskbar might be a different color in Home. The account dialogs seem the same to me. https://i.postimg.cc/FRRDNMD8/local-Home-2004.gif Paul And what version of Windows 10 Home is that... ...because it is literally ALL OVER the web that Microsoft has made this change. 2004. Which is Name: Windows10-x64-2004.iso Size: 4144168960 bytes (3952 MiB) SHA1: A0D4D131ED24646B281BCE6F4E833CBBC10C7C12 I don't know if all the ones made by MediaCreationTool, match on checksum. The files are marked as .wim inside, rather than .esd, so the checksum should be listed somewhere. If you purchased Windows 8.1 electronically and downloaded it, the large file inside was a .esd file and the checksum on those was never the same. I even re-downloaded the image using my account details (from the purchase) and the checksum was different on the second downloaded disc. This destroys the ability to track materials by checksum. I don't think that method is being used, but, you never know. Mine is the 7 OS version DVD, which has Win10 Pro x64 and Win10 Home x64 and five others. And it's made by MediaCreationTool, which you get if you visit the download page with Windows 7 thru Windows 10. If a person pulls the version you get from a Linux (or a Mac browser), those will have a more consistent checksum. The difference is, the ISO doesn't fit single-layer media for the x64 one, and it has an additional four OSes on it. That's the 11 OS DVD version. That would give exactly the same install results for Win10 Pro x64 and Win10 Home x64 though. I don't know what to tell you. I set up a new HP PC for a client and no such option was present. I know, because I was there. Did Winver return 19041.1 or something else ? ******* Another possibility, is you were in Win10-S Home or Win10-S Pro or whatever. The App Store OS only makes sense with an MSA to drive it. Paul |
#15
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Amazing what Windows still doesn't do well.
On 2020-06-29 6:34 p.m., Paul wrote:
Alan Baker wrote: On 2020-06-29 6:24 p.m., Paul wrote: Alan Baker wrote: On 2020-06-29 5:48 p.m., Paul wrote: Alan Baker wrote: On 2020-06-29 3:46 p.m., Paul wrote: It's there. Release 2004 tested in a virtual machine, so I can take pictures. https://i.postimg.cc/7YjwSXSF/local-acct-waltz.gif If the picture isn't sharp enough, use the "Download Original" at the top of the page. The necessary buttons are placed in a "darker" part of the screen in the hope you won't see them. Nope. It is no longer there on Windows 10 Home. The only difference I see, is the taskbar might be a different color in Home. The account dialogs seem the same to me. https://i.postimg.cc/FRRDNMD8/local-Home-2004.gif Â*Â*Â* Paul And what version of Windows 10 Home is that... ...because it is literally ALL OVER the web that Microsoft has made this change. 2004. Which is Name: Windows10-x64-2004.iso Size: 4144168960 bytes (3952 MiB) SHA1: A0D4D131ED24646B281BCE6F4E833CBBC10C7C12 I don't know if all the ones made by MediaCreationTool, match on checksum. The files are marked as .wim inside, rather than .esd, so the checksum should be listed somewhere. If you purchased Windows 8.1 electronically and downloaded it, the large file inside was a .esd file and the checksum on those was never the same. I even re-downloaded the image using my account details (from the purchase) and the checksum was different on the second downloaded disc. This destroys the ability to track materials by checksum. I don't think that method is being used, but, you never know. Mine is the 7 OS version DVD, which has Win10 Pro x64 and Win10 Home x64 and five others. And it's made by MediaCreationTool, which you get if you visit the download page with Windows 7 thru Windows 10. If a person pulls the version you get from a Linux (or a Mac browser), those will have a more consistent checksum. The difference is, the ISO doesn't fit single-layer media for the x64 one, and it has an additional four OSes on it. That's the 11 OS DVD version. That would give exactly the same install results for Win10 Pro x64 and Win10 Home x64 though. I don't know what to tell you. I set up a new HP PC for a client and no such option was present. I know, because I was there. Did Winver return 19041.1 or something else ? I don't have the system in front of me... ....because I set it up for a client. :-) ******* Another possibility, is you were in Win10-S Home or Win10-S Pro or whatever. The App Store OS only makes sense with an MSA to drive it. I don't believe it was Win10-S... ....but I don't know for certain sitting right here and now. |
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