Build 1074 feels like Linux

On 2015-06-13 2:44 PM, A wrote:
Slimer wrote:
On 2015-06-13 11:35 AM, A wrote:
Slimer wrote:
On 2015-06-13 10:43 AM, A wrote:
Slimer wrote:
So it's forgivable for Linux to have a start button, have the same
elements in the same parts of the screen and even operate like
Windows
95 as long as it doesn't look *exactly* like Windows 95. What a
crock of
****.

What Gates/Jobs stole from Xerox:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...rkstations.jpg






So are you saying Xerox Alto/Star is better than Windows (only using
your "logic")

Jobs was the one who "stole" from Xerox and even then, he paid for the
right to do so. Everyone knows that the modern GUI was ripped off from
Mac OS and that Atari's TOS and every other imaginable modern operating
system was the result of it.

Actually, the GUI was ripped off of Xerox. My point was they steal from
each other.

It was the logical evolution of the operating system. Apple got there
first and paid for the privilege but whether they liked to admit it or
not, a graphical user interface was going to happen whether they liked
it or not. Apple's TOS stole its look from MacOS and was blatantly about
it, but Windows was only remotely similar even though they got sued. For
subsequent versions, Apple had no case and they knew it very well.

snip

And MS has stolen stuff from Linux. Seems to be that sort of world
unless you're a user and then you gotta pay.

Name on thing Microsoft has stolen from Linux.



Previews and the way windows open and close in Win 7 and up off the top
of my head. I hear that Win 10 may have more than one workstation like
Linux.

Previews and "the way that windows open and close."

In other words, nothing. Neither comes from Linux, same as the virtual
desktops you're referring to. Linux might have them, but its developers
didn't create them.

--
Slimer
Proud "wintroll"
Encrypt.

Stef wrote:

GreyCloud wrote:

Stef wrote:
[snip]

You don't need to go to school or class to learn Linux. I didn't.
Completely self taught.

Some can and some can't. Just the shows the diversity of people.

Only a few can't. Those with low cognitive ability. But most can.
They just never try convinced that the subject matter is beyond them.


But most don't. I've yet to see any doctors mess around with any operating
system setups or changes. They just don't have the time.
See below.


So, if I can do it, anyone can. If they
try. Most don't. Too much work. They want it easy.

Of course, if they have no desire to work a computer and just want to get
it
done. Also, most don't have time to spare due to other pressing matters.

Our educational system (at least in the U.S.) pander to poor
students and teaching by rote instead of understanding concepts. This
philosophy affects good students badly as they aren't challenged
sufficiently. And actually never reach their full potential. Teaching
methods were similar when I was in school, but standards were a lot
higher, you were expected to do well, and were "held back" when you
didn't.

That is a problem, in which my grandson is one of those that wasn't
challenged at all, except when he challenged the teachers on their claims
and proving them wrong. That's when he ended up in the principals office
but the principal was smart enough to know that.

I had to step in and guide my grandson into the right direction. At his
junior year in high school he was attending college part time till he
graduated. Then he applied for a few colleges in which one, MIT, wanted him
but he couldn't afford them. He was given one of those rare McNair grants
that pays his way to a PHD degree in physics. Now he finds it challenging.


Spare time? People have plenty of spare time. They just don't use it
productively. They'd rather watch the latest installment of some inane
"reality" show on TV, or knock back more than a few at the
neighborhood pub every night. I double majored in college -- math and
physics -- and even though I attended classes 6 days a week for four
years, I still put myself through school working parttime during the
school year and full time summers. No scholarships or aid or loans. So,
"don't have enough time" doesn't cut it with me.


That's is just that you understand the situation. Most don't even have a
clue let alone what they want to do with their life.


What do Windows people do when the wifi doesn't work? They call tech
support. A Linux user will find out why it doesn't work and fix it.


Sometimes that isn't as easy as it sounds. Depends on the computer.

Most times it is, regardless of the computer or OS.


You'll find a lot of complaints about wi-fi in many linux forums.
If a PC vendor did sell a PC with linux preloaded it would definitely be a
plug and play PC.

Dell has tried to sell PCs with linux preinstalled and so has HP.
Their efforts were ignored by the public and soon the PCs were pulled
from the market place.

Linux (Ubuntu, I think) still available on Dells, and HPs, too.
Lenovos as well. They just make it hard to find on their web sites.
Probably due to pressure from Microsoft. But it's there.


Problem is, they aren't advertised on their front page.
I haven't seen a linux PC advertised at HP for a long time now.
Even more odd, HP owns OpenVMS, but never advertises it. You have to
google for it and it is on some obscure HP website.

Microsoft has lots of influence on manufactures. And MS wants Windows
on ALL computers. And so there won't be any anti-trust actions against
MS, Linux is an option. It's just buried. Most of the time with no
direct links on the web site itself to where it's offered. You have to
do a site search to find it, or make a phone call.


Not anymore. HP has started a new program that engages universities in a
new OS design program and a new cpu design program. The CEO wants to bring
back the excitement in computing and speed things up. Right now Intel is at
the brick wall in making cpus run faster.

The real problem is computing stagnation. Even HPs CEO recognizes this
and
is trying to do something about this. Kind of reminds me of the 70s
and
CP/M and S-100 boxes. That market stagnated as well. When IBM came
out with something new, the PC, the CP/M almost died overnight.

Microsoft and Windows have too much control over the market. That's
where the stagnation lies. Why improve when you have 90% of the market?

That's true, as I've heard that there is no incentive to make things
better,
let alone fix all of the bugs. On the other hand, a paradox sits in
front of us... linux is given away free for the download, but still has
the lowest
market share of desktop systems. I suppose it is because there are too
many distros out there and some aren't that good.

With over 300 Linux distros, I'm sure more than a few are dogs. But one
thing I've been seeing lately is specialization: a distro designed
specifically for a given task or group of tasks. For example, a distro
just to create a VPN or DNS or firewall. That's all it does, All
commandline. No GUI. Of course, you can do the same with any general
Linux distro, but these specific ones are quick and easy to get going.

I haven't seen that one, but again I'm just going over Desktop Linux.


The problem with Linux distros is that when they come out with a new
version
they always introduce new bugs. I've seen some do distro hopping hoping
to find the best distro.

Some distros do; others don't. I use Debian whose releases have a
5 year life cycle. Over that time, it remains basically unchanged with
only bug and security fixes. Some distros have LTS -- Long Term
Support -- that go up to 7 years and remain virtually the same.
Then there are others Like Fedora who releases new versions every 6
months. Some distros are "rolling releases". that are constantly in a
state of flux, but they do have the latest of everything. So, they are
good for cutting edge hardware.

With Linux, at least, you have choice, lots of choice, to fit your
needs.


There used to be a lot of real choices in the past, but those machines are
now history. I still prefer the old ways of VMS on a vax chip.
Documentation was excellent back then.
Even if I use simh with a vax simulator it isn't the same as the original.
Plus all the documentation is now lost when DEC sold out to Compaq.

T wrote:

On 06/11/2015 12:56 PM, GreyCloud wrote:
The problem with Linux distros is that when they come out with a new
version they always introduce new bugs.

As opposed to Windows?

Yes, as opposed to windows. The problems had a lot to do with the Desktop
metaphor. MS didn't make these mistakes and neither did Apple. It's called
consistency.

Oh my goodness!!! M$ has a long history of
patches breaking all kinds of things.

I've yet to experience that yet.

And their OS updates have
a habit of breaking most everything, which is the point, so you
have to buy updates and spend $$$$ on programmers, who have to buy
software from M$ to write those programs.


That hasn't happened to me running win7. And I've had that os for over 3
years now.

And as far as Linux goes, the things I have noticed getting broken
as trivial.

Oh, even under RedHat I've run into an update snafu where they forgot to
include an updated dynamic lib. These things happen. On lesser known
distros, it gets worse. OpenSuse hosed the entire system on an update, so
yes they are not immune to update fiascos. It takes a lot of resources to
double check to make sure things work before release, and so far I've not
seen this problem on Win7.
I suppose the worst I've seen is when Gnu/gcc was upgraded to version 4 is
when they changed the rules on having the ability to manipulate stdin/stdout
between a file and/or input/output. Now they've made it more difficult to
do. Their -c89 setting no longer works correctly and some older legacy code
will no longer compile.

And the new bugs that get introduced a far fewer
than the bugs that get fixed.

And, And, you can always get Red Hat Enterprise Linux (or clones),
where things are locked down from that sort of thing for 10 years!

That's what I'm using now... a paid subscription to RedHat.
It's nice but the support was necessary to get a few questions answere
without resorting to goofy forums that for the most you get no real answers,
just guff.

Ken1943 wrote:

On Fri, 12 Jun 2015 13:36:57 -0700, T wrote:

On 06/11/2015 12:56 PM, GreyCloud wrote:
The problem with Linux distros is that when they come out with a new
version they always introduce new bugs.

As opposed to Windows? Oh my goodness!!! M$ has a long history of
patches breaking all kinds of things. And their OS updates have
a habit of breaking most everything, which is the point, so you
have to buy updates and spend $$$$ on programmers, who have to buy
software from M$ to write those programs.

And as far as Linux goes, the things I have noticed getting broken
as trivial. And the new bugs that get introduced a far fewer
than the bugs that get fixed.

And, And, you can always get Red Hat Enterprise Linux (or clones),
where things are locked down from that sort of thing for 10 years!

I can't be sure, but Linux has a .0000005% of the desktop users at the
most ??
If you want to push linux, go somewhere where people give a ****. Linux
desktops suck and the software is unpolished to say the least. Windows
programmers have some problems, but even the crappy programs are better
than what get written for linux****.

Hey, I like that name, Linux****.
Use it for servers and the science community, but never for general use.
Except for stupid people for surfing and email.



That's why I went with Win7. After digging into their systems programming
documentation, NT has the same design patterns that are in VMS. David
Cutlers style sort of shows.

A wrote:

Slimer wrote:
1.5%, give or take. People tend to try it out and lose their **** within
the first week of its installation because an update broke some of the
functionality or left them with an unusable desktop.

Generalize with stereotypes much? I have two web sites that have nothing
to do with computers or Linux and over 14% of the visitors use Linux and
that's been going on for about a year (before that it was about 5%).
Windows 8 (barf) helped a lot. The Windows 10 cloud trip and eventual
rental will help even more.

But that isn't a world wide metric tho.
Depends on what is on your website that draws them in.

Johnny wrote:

On Fri, 12 Jun 2015 18:18:27 -0400
Slimer wrote:

On 2015-06-12 4:47 PM, Ken1943 wrote:
On Fri, 12 Jun 2015 13:36:57 -0700, T wrote:

On 06/11/2015 12:56 PM, GreyCloud wrote:
The problem with Linux distros is that when they come out with a
new version they always introduce new bugs.

As opposed to Windows? Oh my goodness!!! M$ has a long history of
patches breaking all kinds of things. And their OS updates have
a habit of breaking most everything, which is the point, so you
have to buy updates and spend $$$$ on programmers, who have to buy
software from M$ to write those programs.

And as far as Linux goes, the things I have noticed getting broken
as trivial. And the new bugs that get introduced a far fewer
than the bugs that get fixed.

And, And, you can always get Red Hat Enterprise Linux (or clones),
where things are locked down from that sort of thing for 10
years!

I can't be sure, but Linux has a .0000005% of the desktop users at
the most ??

1.5%, give or take. People tend to try it out and lose their ****
within the first week of its installation because an update broke
some of the functionality or left them with an unusable desktop.

Why don't you quit lying and tell the truth for a change? I have never
known an update to break anything.

I have. OpenSuse update hosed my entire system to the point of freezing up.
All you have to do is google for these problems as they do exist.

The people that give up in a week,
just won't accept the fact that Linux is a completely different
operating system, and take the time to learn how to use it. Instead
they give up and run back to something that is more comfortable and
familiar to them.


And that is usually what happens too.

I moved to Linux to get away from the Spyware that Windows is, and
promised myself that I wouldn't go back, and I haven't.


Don't believe it. Hackers at NSA can get inside of a linux installation
with specialized tools that the end user won't even know they were there.

I probably had more trouble learning how to use Linux Mint without
screwing it up so bad it was useless, than anyone, but I stuck with it,
and had people to help me, and I'm still using it 18 months later.

But that is why it is called "HobbyWare" to a lot of people. Some just like
to tinker with the system to see how much they can make changes for their
own likings. But the stats still show Desktop Linux at around 1.5% of the
market share. This excludes Android and other mobile devices of course.

Steve wrote:

On Fri, 12 Jun 2015 19:57:06 -0400, Slimer wrote:

On 2015-06-12 6:33 PM, Johnny wrote:
On Fri, 12 Jun 2015 18:18:27 -0400
Slimer wrote:

On 2015-06-12 4:47 PM, Ken1943 wrote:
On Fri, 12 Jun 2015 13:36:57 -0700, T wrote:

On 06/11/2015 12:56 PM, GreyCloud wrote:
The problem with Linux distros is that when they come out with a
new version they always introduce new bugs.

As opposed to Windows? Oh my goodness!!! M$ has a long history of
patches breaking all kinds of things. And their OS updates have
a habit of breaking most everything, which is the point, so you
have to buy updates and spend $$$$ on programmers, who have to buy
software from M$ to write those programs.

And as far as Linux goes, the things I have noticed getting broken
as trivial. And the new bugs that get introduced a far fewer
than the bugs that get fixed.

And, And, you can always get Red Hat Enterprise Linux (or clones),
where things are locked down from that sort of thing for 10
years!

I can't be sure, but Linux has a .0000005% of the desktop users at
the most ??

1.5%, give or take. People tend to try it out and lose their ****
within the first week of its installation because an update broke
some of the functionality or left them with an unusable desktop.

Why don't you quit lying and tell the truth for a change? I have never
known an update to break anything. The people that give up in a week,
just won't accept the fact that Linux is a completely different
operating system, and take the time to learn how to use it. Instead
they give up and run back to something that is more comfortable and
familiar to them.

I moved to Linux to get away from the Spyware that Windows is, and
promised myself that I wouldn't go back, and I haven't.

I probably had more trouble learning how to use Linux Mint without
screwing it up so bad it was useless, than anyone, but I stuck with it,
and had people to help me, and I'm still using it 18 months later.

I'm lying about updates breaking the system? Let's see...

https://www.linuxquestions.org/quest...ch-update-%3D-
break-4175438110/


https://superuser.com/questions/3729...i-bios-update-
break-the-efi-boot-manager

https://askubuntu.com/questions/2231...-update-linux-
headers-error-brokencount-0

https://unix.stackexchange.com/quest...e-with-nvidia-
breaks-cinnamon

http://www.webupd8.org/2014/09/recen...buntu-desktop-
on.html

https://forum.sabayon.org/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=32123

I'm sure all of those are lies as well.

You might want to think twice about calling someone a liar when so much
evidence is available on the web. Take your Linux propaganda and shove
it up your ass, nobody here cares about the amateur code you call an
operating system.


Thanks for keepin' it real, Slimer..if we talked about windows in a
linux group they would be slinging their zit cream at us like there
was no tomorrow

Oh, it happens in cola all right. They'll make claims but then refuse to
provide any proof of their claims.

A wrote:

Slimer wrote:
On 2015-06-13 7:03 AM, A wrote:
Slimer wrote:
On 2015-06-12 6:33 PM, Johnny wrote:
On Fri, 12 Jun 2015 18:18:27 -0400
Slimer wrote:

On 2015-06-12 4:47 PM, Ken1943 wrote:
On Fri, 12 Jun 2015 13:36:57 -0700, T wrote:

On 06/11/2015 12:56 PM, GreyCloud wrote:
The problem with Linux distros is that when they come out with a
new version they always introduce new bugs.

As opposed to Windows? Oh my goodness!!! M$ has a long history of
patches breaking all kinds of things. And their OS updates have
a habit of breaking most everything, which is the point, so you
have to buy updates and spend $$$$ on programmers, who have to buy
software from M$ to write those programs.

And as far as Linux goes, the things I have noticed getting broken
as trivial. And the new bugs that get introduced a far fewer
than the bugs that get fixed.

And, And, you can always get Red Hat Enterprise Linux (or clones),
where things are locked down from that sort of thing for 10
years!

I can't be sure, but Linux has a .0000005% of the desktop users at
the most ??

1.5%, give or take. People tend to try it out and lose their ****
within the first week of its installation because an update broke
some of the functionality or left them with an unusable desktop.

Why don't you quit lying and tell the truth for a change? I have
never
known an update to break anything. The people that give up in a week,
just won't accept the fact that Linux is a completely different
operating system, and take the time to learn how to use it. Instead
they give up and run back to something that is more comfortable and
familiar to them.

I moved to Linux to get away from the Spyware that Windows is, and
promised myself that I wouldn't go back, and I haven't.

I probably had more trouble learning how to use Linux Mint without
screwing it up so bad it was useless, than anyone, but I stuck with
it, and had people to help me, and I'm still using it 18 months later.

I'm lying about updates breaking the system? Let's see...

https://www.linuxquestions.org/quest...ch-update-%3D-
break-4175438110/



Three years old.


https://superuser.com/questions/3729...i-bios-update-
break-the-efi-boot-manager





Two years old.
https://askubuntu.com/questions/2231...-after-update-
linux-headers-error-brokencount-0




A year old and Ubuntu isn't as good as Mint.


https://unix.stackexchange.com/quest...t-update-with-
nvidia-breaks-cinnamon




Two years old and three Linux versions behind.



http://www.webupd8.org/2014/09/recen...buntu-desktop-
on.html




A year old.

https://forum.sabayon.org/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=32123

A year old and a few versions behind on a little known distro.


I'm sure all of those are lies as well.

Seems to me their problems rest between the keyboard and the chair, just
like you.


You might want to think twice about calling someone a liar when so much
evidence is available on the web. Take your Linux propaganda and shove
it up your ass, nobody here cares about the amateur code you call an
operating system.


Wrong again, I'm interested.

Ugh, manipulation. If the articles were just two weeks old, you would
actually say "two weeks old" as if it somehow forgave the operating
system. The point I was making was that updating Linux risks breaking
it. Your friend didn't believe me and I proved it with a number of
links. You can claim that it's an old problem and that it's been fixed,
but the reality is that it is a problem which has existed since Linux's
beginnings and it is still around.


I've never had that problem since 03. What am I doing wrong? It's easy
to find problems with *any* OS, dumb ass, even Windows. I worked on a
Windows laptop computer that would not boot. As the reboot on BSOD is
set by default, there was no way to read the BSOD code. It wouldn't go
into Safe Mode. Windows 7. Hardware, you'd say? Nope, WINDOWS. I
reinstalled Windows and it's been working fine for a couple of weeks
now. So if you think your little Google searches prove anything, I want
whatever it is you've been smoking.

Maybe it's because you couldn't figure out why it wouldn't boot technically?
How come the PC shops can get one of these working in a few minutes then,
like the Geek Squad from BestBuy?

T wrote:

On 06/12/2015 01:47 PM, Ken1943 wrote:
On Fri, 12 Jun 2015 13:36:57 -0700, T wrote:

On 06/11/2015 12:56 PM, GreyCloud wrote:
The problem with Linux distros is that when they come out with a new
version they always introduce new bugs.

As opposed to Windows? Oh my goodness!!! M$ has a long history of
patches breaking all kinds of things. And their OS updates have
a habit of breaking most everything, which is the point, so you
have to buy updates and spend $$$$ on programmers, who have to buy
software from M$ to write those programs.

And as far as Linux goes, the things I have noticed getting broken
as trivial. And the new bugs that get introduced a far fewer
than the bugs that get fixed.

And, And, you can always get Red Hat Enterprise Linux (or clones),
where things are locked down from that sort of thing for 10 years!

I can't be sure, but Linux has a .0000005% of the desktop users at the
most ??
If you want to push linux, go somewhere where people give a ****. Linux
desktops suck and the software is unpolished to say the least. Windows
programmers have some problems, but even the crappy programs are better
than what get written for linux****.

Hey, I like that name, Linux****.
Use it for servers and the science community, but never for general use.
Except for stupid people for surfing and email.


KenW


Hi Ken,

Sorehead. This is just friends talking computers. No one
is forcing you to read it.

And things have changed a lot. Try some of the new Live CD's:
https://spins.fedoraproject.org/

The only drawback Linux now has is the lack of business
applications. Unfortunately, I don't see that changing
and time soon.

The "surf" crowd should seriously think of an iPad.

-T

By the way, the more OS'es you learn, the more fun
this profession becomes.

For your info... the market place is changing to smart phone/mobile devices.
Desktops are starting to go away slowly.
That's the handwriting you see on the wall.

Roger Blake wrote:

On 2015-06-12, T wrote:
Sorehead. This is just friends talking computers. No one
is forcing you to read it.

A good perspective. It's amazing how hotheaded people get over this stuff.

To give you a perspective from someone who has been working in the
computer industry for over 40 years and has worked with a large number
of different architectures and operating systems: It ALL sucks. It's
all buggy. It's all unsecure. It all has hidden trap doors with spikes
waiting for you at the bottom of the pit. It will all turn around and
bite you in the ass when you least expect it.

Windows sucks. Linux sucks. BSD sucks. OS/X sucks. Plan 9 sucks.
NeXT sucks. RSX11M sucks. VMS sucks. RSTS sucks. RT-11 sucks. OS/8 sucks.
Etc., etc., etc., all down the line. IT ALL SUCKS. (Well, maybe TOPS-20
doesn't *completely* suck. :-)

It's just a matter of choosing the environment that has the features
you need and the flaws you can live with.

I couldn't have said it better. Guess that's why my cousin hates computers.
:-)

Slimer wrote:
On 2015-06-13 2:44 PM, A wrote:
Slimer wrote:
On 2015-06-13 11:35 AM, A wrote:
Slimer wrote:
On 2015-06-13 10:43 AM, A wrote:
Slimer wrote:
So it's forgivable for Linux to have a start button, have the same
elements in the same parts of the screen and even operate like
Windows
95 as long as it doesn't look *exactly* like Windows 95. What a
crock of
****.

What Gates/Jobs stole from Xerox:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...rkstations.jpg







So are you saying Xerox Alto/Star is better than Windows (only using
your "logic")

Jobs was the one who "stole" from Xerox and even then, he paid for the
right to do so. Everyone knows that the modern GUI was ripped off from
Mac OS and that Atari's TOS and every other imaginable modern
operating
system was the result of it.

Actually, the GUI was ripped off of Xerox. My point was they steal from
each other.

It was the logical evolution of the operating system. Apple got there
first and paid for the privilege but whether they liked to admit it or
not, a graphical user interface was going to happen whether they liked
it or not. Apple's TOS stole its look from MacOS and was blatantly about
it, but Windows was only remotely similar even though they got sued. For
subsequent versions, Apple had no case and they knew it very well.

snip

And MS has stolen stuff from Linux. Seems to be that sort of world
unless you're a user and then you gotta pay.

Name on thing Microsoft has stolen from Linux.



Previews and the way windows open and close in Win 7 and up off the top
of my head. I hear that Win 10 may have more than one workstation like
Linux.

Previews and "the way that windows open and close."

In other words, nothing. Neither comes from Linux, same as the virtual
desktops you're referring to. Linux might have them, but its developers
didn't create them.


We weren't talking about developers but operating systems. No wonder you
can't use Linux if you can't tell the difference between an operating
system and a developer.

--
A

GreyCloud wrote:
A wrote:

Slimer wrote:
On 2015-06-13 7:03 AM, A wrote:
Slimer wrote:
On 2015-06-12 6:33 PM, Johnny wrote:
On Fri, 12 Jun 2015 18:18:27 -0400
Slimer wrote:

On 2015-06-12 4:47 PM, Ken1943 wrote:
On Fri, 12 Jun 2015 13:36:57 -0700, T wrote:

On 06/11/2015 12:56 PM, GreyCloud wrote:
The problem with Linux distros is that when they come out with a
new version they always introduce new bugs.

As opposed to Windows? Oh my goodness!!! M$ has a long history of
patches breaking all kinds of things. And their OS updates have
a habit of breaking most everything, which is the point, so you
have to buy updates and spend $$$$ on programmers, who have to buy
software from M$ to write those programs.

And as far as Linux goes, the things I have noticed getting broken
as trivial. And the new bugs that get introduced a far fewer
than the bugs that get fixed.

And, And, you can always get Red Hat Enterprise Linux (or clones),
where things are locked down from that sort of thing for 10
years!

I can't be sure, but Linux has a .0000005% of the desktop users at
the most ??

1.5%, give or take. People tend to try it out and lose their ****
within the first week of its installation because an update broke
some of the functionality or left them with an unusable desktop.

Why don't you quit lying and tell the truth for a change? I have
never
known an update to break anything. The people that give up in a week,
just won't accept the fact that Linux is a completely different
operating system, and take the time to learn how to use it. Instead
they give up and run back to something that is more comfortable and
familiar to them.

I moved to Linux to get away from the Spyware that Windows is, and
promised myself that I wouldn't go back, and I haven't.

I probably had more trouble learning how to use Linux Mint without
screwing it up so bad it was useless, than anyone, but I stuck with
it, and had people to help me, and I'm still using it 18 months later.

I'm lying about updates breaking the system? Let's see...

https://www.linuxquestions.org/quest...ch-update-%3D-
break-4175438110/



Three years old.


https://superuser.com/questions/3729...i-bios-update-
break-the-efi-boot-manager





Two years old.
https://askubuntu.com/questions/2231...-after-update-
linux-headers-error-brokencount-0




A year old and Ubuntu isn't as good as Mint.


https://unix.stackexchange.com/quest...t-update-with-
nvidia-breaks-cinnamon




Two years old and three Linux versions behind.



http://www.webupd8.org/2014/09/recen...buntu-desktop-
on.html




A year old.

https://forum.sabayon.org/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=32123

A year old and a few versions behind on a little known distro.


I'm sure all of those are lies as well.

Seems to me their problems rest between the keyboard and the chair, just
like you.


You might want to think twice about calling someone a liar when so much
evidence is available on the web. Take your Linux propaganda and shove
it up your ass, nobody here cares about the amateur code you call an
operating system.


Wrong again, I'm interested.

Ugh, manipulation. If the articles were just two weeks old, you would
actually say "two weeks old" as if it somehow forgave the operating
system. The point I was making was that updating Linux risks breaking
it. Your friend didn't believe me and I proved it with a number of
links. You can claim that it's an old problem and that it's been fixed,
but the reality is that it is a problem which has existed since Linux's
beginnings and it is still around.


I've never had that problem since 03. What am I doing wrong? It's easy
to find problems with *any* OS, dumb ass, even Windows. I worked on a
Windows laptop computer that would not boot. As the reboot on BSOD is
set by default, there was no way to read the BSOD code. It wouldn't go
into Safe Mode. Windows 7. Hardware, you'd say? Nope, WINDOWS. I
reinstalled Windows and it's been working fine for a couple of weeks
now. So if you think your little Google searches prove anything, I want
whatever it is you've been smoking.

Maybe it's because you couldn't figure out why it wouldn't boot technically?
How come the PC shops can get one of these working in a few minutes then,
like the Geek Squad from BestBuy?


They can't.

--
A

Stormin' Norman wrote:

On Fri, 12 Jun 2015 13:03:40 -0600, GreyCloud
wrote:

Stormin' Norman wrote:

On Thu, 11 Jun 2015 20:46:45 +0100, mechanic
wrote:

On Thu, 11 Jun 2015 07:07:26 -0700, Stormin' Norman wrote:

This is, by far, the best way to learn anything. If you have the
passion and interest to teach yourself virtually any topic or skill,
you will be amongst the most successful in your field.

Yes, try that with brain surgery or any other field where mistakes
can be costly.

Ed Schumed, a self educated aeronautical engineer was responsible for
designing the P-51 Mustang and F-86 Sabre fighter planes. He also led
the team of engineers that designed the F-5 Tigershark. The Mustang
was responsible for saving the lives of countless allied airmen during
WWII and made a very significant contribution to ultimate victory over
Germany.

Abraham Lincoln was a self-educated attorney and arguably the most
impactful President in the history of the USA.

Throughout human history the list of autodidacts is quite extensive
and very impressive.

And don't forget that Bill Gates left Harvard to start up his own company
that we all know.

I am not sure that one bolsters my argument..... ;-)

LOL!!! It should tho. He didn't have any formal education in computer
science, tho he did have some help. He used to get DEC to let him use their
computer system that ran basic for free, provided he could find any bugs for
them to fix. He found a lot of bugs back then. Leaving Harvard must've
made his father cringe.

GreyCloud wrote:
A wrote:

Slimer wrote:
1.5%, give or take. People tend to try it out and lose their **** within
the first week of its installation because an update broke some of the
functionality or left them with an unusable desktop.

Generalize with stereotypes much? I have two web sites that have nothing
to do with computers or Linux and over 14% of the visitors use Linux and
that's been going on for about a year (before that it was about 5%).
Windows 8 (barf) helped a lot. The Windows 10 cloud trip and eventual
rental will help even more.

But that isn't a world wide metric tho.
Depends on what is on your website that draws them in.


It's about Spanish language education and international travel. Not
exactly a geeky interest. The international travel is only open for
females. So, you were saying, Mr. I believe in stereotypes?

--
A

T wrote:

On 06/11/2015 01:00 PM, GreyCloud wrote:
T wrote:

On 06/10/2015 09:53 AM, GreyCloud wrote:
Stef wrote:

Joel wrote:

"Roger Blake" wrote in message
...

On 2015-06-10, Joel wrote:
This machine it's slow to open applications and fast to close.
That's why I prefer older Windows versions, they are much smoother.
And it's becoming darker
interface like Linux.

There is no single "Linux user interface." Linux users have the
choice of quite a few, some very much like Windows, some like
nothing else on Earth. I use Xfce myself which has a pretty
traditional look and feel, and would hardly describe it as "dark."


The command console is usually black as ms-dos. I know Linux users
can change the wallpaper and configure the looks. You can have both
on same machine, there is a lot of options to do with those. Only
thing I don't understand is why they say Linux is safer and open
source. Should be closed and safer.

With Linux you can change everything or just about. Well, even "just
about" can be changed, but you have to get into the code and recompile
it which you can't do with proprietary "closed" software. And that's
one of the reasons that makes Linux "safer:" you can check the code
for
"bad" things, edit them out, and recompile. Or fix errors. Or alter
the app to suit your needs.


That may be as one that can and understand linux and where the config
files are, but for the rest of the people, linux will be almost
impossible for
them to configure without going to some school or class. If their
wi-fi connection doesn't work, what would you think their first
reaction to this will be?

Dell has tried to sell PCs with linux preinstalled and so has HP.
Their efforts were ignored by the public and soon the PCs were pulled
from the market place.

The real problem is computing stagnation. Even HPs CEO recognizes this
and
is trying to do something about this. Kind of reminds me of the 70s
and
CP/M and S-100 boxes. That market stagnated as well. When IBM came
out with something new, the PC, the CP/M almost died overnight.


Hi GreyCloud,

What ?!?!?!?! I do this stuff all the time. I can use command line
or the build-in GIU utilties. Linux is as easy, if not easier, to
configure that Windows!

Not if your field of expertise is in medicine.
Do you think a surgeon has the time to mess around with this stuff?
He has to hire someone else to do it.

My colleagues that deal with Allopath hate them. They would
much rather help the office staff than an Allopath. Trying
to help an Allopath is like trying to teach a arrogant dog.
Well, except a dog has better listening skills. And, that is OS
independent!

My hat is off to you that you have to deal with these numskulls.
I would probably be in jail for assault.

For a lot of people, they just don't have the interest in doing computing
at
all. My cousin hates computers, but he hires other people to handle that
job.


I am constantly using my Live USB and direct USB to troubleshoot
Windows machines. And, on live media the wireless works
spectacularly! So does printer-config!

I think you are remember about 10 years ago. Here is a link
to Fedora Core 22's Live Media. You should burn a bunch of
them and see for yourself:

https://spins.fedoraproject.org/

By the way, good luck telling KDE4 apart from Windows 7 (Windows 7
ripped off KDE4).

Got any proof of that?
When it says copyright by Microsoft, it looks like it is the other way
around.

1) KDE4 never got sued.


Nothing there to sue over. Just different eye candy.

2) All you have to do it look!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49PxrcmY6dU

This is a long video, but you really only have to watch
a few minutes to get the point.

3) M$ has a long history of ripping others off

Funny that there are a lot of MS Copyright notices and SGI Copyright notices
in X11R6. The widgets were made by MS back in the late 80s. SGI stuff is
what you'd call Mesa and not GL. You were talking about rip-offs?