Audio is distorted -- XP Pro, SP3

Paul wrote:
dadiOH wrote:
jim wrote:

I'll be honest, drivers are a mystery to me. I seem to have some
kind of mental block when it comes to them.

"Drivers" is just a fancy name for a program over which the user
generally has no control but which is used by other programs,
generally to accomplish some hardware task. A printer driver takes
info from wherever and sends it to the printer...an audio driver
does likewise for sound (to the sound card). They save programers
from having to write low level code to deal with devices thus
allowing them to concentrate on their app.


I think we can paint a more optimistic picture than that :-)

Ring 3 | "Kernel country, Ring 0 security"
|
User Program | -- User program is blocked, and
| | can't touch hardware directly
|
+-------------- Driver (in ring 0) ------ actual hardware
register

|
|

The driver must be carefully written, or the entire OS can become
unstable.

Oh. You mean they are not unstable natively?
_____________

Good driver writers "go to school" to learn how to write
safe and effective drivers.

Yeah, they can be tricky. I recall a time back in Z80 days when I was
teaching myself assembler that I needed a floppy I/O routine. NP looking up
the op codes for the floppy controller but what threw me for a bit was that
a call to the controller did not return "in line"; instead, it returned to
an error trapping routine which had to have been set up previously.
___________

On some of the older OSes, the security structure was rather flat, and
you could do whatever the hell you wanted. Those were great days
while they lasted. (As a hardware guy, I loved those days.)

Yep. DOS as opposd to an all encompassing OS.
____________

But with more "protected" OSes, came restrictions. To help guarantee
a user program could never "tip over" the OS and cause a BSOD or
a kernel panic, the ring structure of the processor was used for
protection. By only allowing certain activities in each ring,
the operating system is protected from the evil or careless
user. (Or so the model goes...) The processor hardware, for
some strange reason, had four rings numbered 0 through 3, but
in practice, only two get used. No one has ever figured out
a use for the middle two of them.

"Future expansion"?
______________

2) With the driver in place, it's still possible for malfunctions.

A shim, otherwise known as a "Filter driver", is something
that sits in the stream, and messes around. I'm not sure
of the mechanics, and this is a vague handwaving sort of
diagram implying how a filter driver can choose to
interfere. In the case of an echo suppressor filter for
example (i.e. Skype), the filter driver would take in "echoed"
audio samples and output "un-echoed" samples on the other side.
Or react in any way needed, to prevent echoes from making the
audio unbearable.

Not only things messing with the audio directly either. I once got a new
sound card; audio had been fine but was terrible with the new (supposedly)
better card...it was all "burblely". The problem turned out to be - after a
lot of time looking - a software cooler program.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

dadiOH wrote:


Not only things messing with the audio directly either. I once got a new
sound card; audio had been fine but was terrible with the new (supposedly)
better card...it was all "burblely". The problem turned out to be - after a
lot of time looking - a software cooler program.

One annoyance I had, actually turned out to be the driver itself.

I was listening to music on the computer, with a motherboard SoundMax
(Analog Devices) sound solution. The sound seemed "muddy", and with
rock and roll playing, it blended in just fine. But some other kinds of
music, the effect was unbearable.

I went to the control panel, and there was an Environment setting,
things like Concert Hall or Garage or Cave, and that is basically extra
reverberation added to simulate reflections off of walls. So I figured,
let's turn that off. And there was still muddy sound.

For a test, I used Audacity, and drew a waveform stimulus. I used
a trapezoidal pulse.
___
/ \
_______/ \_______

Using Sound Recorder, I recorded playback coming from the computer.
And even with all effects turned off, I could see the main pulse
come back, plus tiny copies of my trapezoidal pulse with a
delay of 30 milliseconds being recorded too. So what was happening,
was the driver would not allow all reverberation to be removed.
It was adding echo to the signal.

So I had to switch to a sound card to get rid of it. No more
muddy music, because the sound card used a different driver,
without the same careless implementation.

Paul

On Fri, 23 Mar 2012 07:24:27 -0500, in
microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, "dadiOH" , wrote

A shim, otherwise known as a "Filter driver", is something
that sits in the stream, and messes around. I'm not sure
of the mechanics, and this is a vague handwaving sort of
diagram implying how a filter driver can choose to
interfere. In the case of an echo suppressor filter for
example (i.e. Skype), the filter driver would take in "echoed"
audio samples and output "un-echoed" samples on the other side.
Or react in any way needed, to prevent echoes from making the
audio unbearable.

This sounds like the kind of thing i need.


Not only things messing with the audio directly either. I once got a new
sound card; audio had been fine but was terrible with the new (supposedly)
better card...it was all "burblely". The problem turned out to be - after a
lot of time looking - a software cooler program.

"Burbely" -- i like that one. I have variously described it as "sounds
underwater", "fuzzed", "too many audio artifacts" -- or just "distorted".
If the CPU is hot, I get 'kind of' a reverb effect on voice.
I am listening to vocal streaming now and it sounds just fine,though i can
hear a minor fuzzing accentuating stressed word endings. It is on hi-def
classical music where it is really annoying, because I know how the
strings and winds are supposed to sound.

Now here is a strange occurrence -- but computers are strange anyway--
yesterday, after i did the suggested headphone test, i plugged the speaker
back in and enjoyed a couple of hours of feel-it-through-the table fairly
hi-def classical from http://kuscstream.org/mp3/kusc128.m3u . Does that
make sense that an unplug/replug of the front two speakers would fix it?
No. But if was a brief 'fix', by last night the reproduction problems
were back.

There is no commercial 5.1 system here. I have 3 computer power units,
powering 2 sets of 2 speakers (plugged as Front and Rear) and one large
10" woofer floor speaker (plugged as sub-woofer but showing on the display
and reacting as "Center" speaker.). As far as effects, all GUIs for
configs are 'generic/music'. System "Volume Control" is less than max
for WAV and Line-In (unused).

I feel it is going to end up being something like a "software cooler"
(though i am unsure what that is) -- IOW, something that others would say
has nothing at all to do with audio reproduction.

jim

jim wrote:
On Thu, 22 Mar 2012 14:09:38 -0500, in
microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, VanguardLH , wrote

jim wrote:

OS: Windows XP Pro,SP3
Audio Codec: CMI8738
Affected: All audio output
Third Party: Xear 3D Audio (set for 6 speakers, I have 5)

The audio output is distorted including the Windows start up wave.
String instruments sound out of tune, Wind instruments sound as if
they have vibrators attached, etc. -- that sort of thing. If I had
to guess as to "sounds like", i would guess that the audio sounds
like it was over-recorded.

My control is that i had a Win XP Pro,SP2 setup on the same
hardware, same software -- on the same machine -- and it was clear
as a bell.

Disconnect the external speakers from the line-out jacks from the
motherboard backpanel. Connect headphones or a headset to the same
jack. Is the sound good or bad using the headphones or headset as
alternate speakers?

That was an interesting test. The headphones had no distortion.


This is a quick test to eliminate your external
powered speakers as the source of the problem. Some speakers provide
their own controls, like adding surround sound or other effects, so
their logic can go bad and produce artifacts in sound reproduction.

You don't say that this is a new problem that cropped up on an old
host that was working before or if it is a new hardware setup and
this problem has been exhibited ever since that hardware setup was
created. Is it a new problem on old working hardware or is it a new
hardware setup with the problem always there?

The *only* hardware change was using a new boot disk, and installing
the same base operating system from the same CD as was used for the
previous boot disk.

Thanks, the headphone test actually told me a lot.

Do the speakers have a volume control? Turn it down.

On Thu, 22 Mar 2012 14:48:07 -0500, in
microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, BillW50 , wrote

You don't say that this is a new problem that cropped up on an old host
that was working before or if it is a new hardware setup and this
problem has been exhibited ever since that hardware setup was created.
Is it a new problem on old working hardware or is it a new hardware
setup with the problem always there?

Jim (OP) stated all was fine before SP3 was installed. So it isn't that
hard to figure out.

I have gone back over what i said and if i gave the misimpression that the
audio reproduction problem started with SP3, i am sorry. SP3 was really
the only choice i found to update the "new" system (really a much used old
system) via a third party (a necessity).

(Yes, I *could* have applied the 100+ KB's,patches and program updates
from and existing on the previous boot disk and thereby avoided SP3, but
that was not a reasonable choice.)

jim

jim wrote:
On Thu, 22 Mar 2012 14:09:38 -0500, in
microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, VanguardLH , wrote

jim wrote:

OS: Windows XP Pro,SP3
Audio Codec: CMI8738
Affected: All audio output
Third Party: Xear 3D Audio (set for 6 speakers, I have 5)

The audio output is distorted including the Windows start up wave. String
instruments sound out of tune, Wind instruments sound as if they have
vibrators attached, etc. -- that sort of thing. If I had to guess as to
"sounds like", i would guess that the audio sounds like it was
over-recorded.

My control is that i had a Win XP Pro,SP2 setup on the same hardware, same
software -- on the same machine -- and it was clear as a bell.
Disconnect the external speakers from the line-out jacks from the
motherboard backpanel. Connect headphones or a headset to the same
jack. Is the sound good or bad using the headphones or headset as
alternate speakers?

That was an interesting test. The headphones had no distortion.


This is a quick test to eliminate your external
powered speakers as the source of the problem. Some speakers provide
their own controls, like adding surround sound or other effects, so
their logic can go bad and produce artifacts in sound reproduction.

You don't say that this is a new problem that cropped up on an old host
that was working before or if it is a new hardware setup and this
problem has been exhibited ever since that hardware setup was created.
Is it a new problem on old working hardware or is it a new hardware
setup with the problem always there?

The *only* hardware change was using a new boot disk, and installing the
same base operating system from the same CD as was used for the previous
boot disk.

Thanks, the headphone test actually told me a lot.

jim

One thing that plugging in headphones does, is take the sound
subsystem from 5.1, back to stereo. If the CMedia control panel
has "virtual 5.1" mode, then the headphones probably caused that
to be switched off. And perhaps as a consequence of your test
results, the virtual 5.1 effect should be turned off in the panel.

"Real" 5.1 content may be available on a DVD player application,
sending movie sound to the speakers.

Some games, may have content suitable for driving 5.1.

For many other sources, only the front two speakers will be
driven. At least, as long as the "virtual 5.1" feature is turned
off. Check to see if an ordinary stereo source, is only giving
stereo sound to the speakers. That would help prove that the virtual
thing is really turned off.

Paul

On Fri, 23 Mar 2012 14:48:34 -0400, in
microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, Paul , wrote

jim wrote:
On Thu, 22 Mar 2012 14:09:38 -0500, in
microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, VanguardLH , wrote

jim wrote:

OS: Windows XP Pro,SP3
Audio Codec: CMI8738
Affected: All audio output
Third Party: Xear 3D Audio (set for 6 speakers, I have 5)

The audio output is distorted including the Windows start up wave. String
instruments sound out of tune, Wind instruments sound as if they have
vibrators attached, etc. -- that sort of thing. If I had to guess as to
"sounds like", i would guess that the audio sounds like it was
over-recorded.

My control is that i had a Win XP Pro,SP2 setup on the same hardware, same
software -- on the same machine -- and it was clear as a bell.
Disconnect the external speakers from the line-out jacks from the
motherboard backpanel. Connect headphones or a headset to the same
jack. Is the sound good or bad using the headphones or headset as
alternate speakers?

That was an interesting test. The headphones had no distortion.


This is a quick test to eliminate your external
powered speakers as the source of the problem. Some speakers provide
their own controls, like adding surround sound or other effects, so
their logic can go bad and produce artifacts in sound reproduction.

You don't say that this is a new problem that cropped up on an old host
that was working before or if it is a new hardware setup and this
problem has been exhibited ever since that hardware setup was created.
Is it a new problem on old working hardware or is it a new hardware
setup with the problem always there?

The *only* hardware change was using a new boot disk, and installing the
same base operating system from the same CD as was used for the previous
boot disk.

Thanks, the headphone test actually told me a lot.

jim

One thing that plugging in headphones does, is take the sound
subsystem from 5.1, back to stereo. If the CMedia control panel
has "virtual 5.1" mode, then the headphones probably caused that
to be switched off. And perhaps as a consequence of your test
results, the virtual 5.1 effect should be turned off in the panel.

Thanks.


"Real" 5.1 content may be available on a DVD player application,
sending movie sound to the speakers.

Some games, may have content suitable for driving 5.1.

For many other sources, only the front two speakers will be
driven. At least, as long as the "virtual 5.1" feature is turned
off. Check to see if an ordinary stereo source, is only giving
stereo sound to the speakers. That would help prove that the virtual
thing is really turned off.

Paul

I am pretty much in the dark here, tell me if this tells you anything:

~~~~~~~~~~~
FILE: C:\CMI8738_WDM_0639XP_driver\CMI8738_WDM_0639XP\se tup.ini
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
; web downloading upgrade package drivers
[InstallOption]
; WebSetup=0 for customers, 1 for downloading, 2 for single driver
installation
WebSetup=1
; FullPackage=0 for web upgrade version, 1 for full package drivers
FullPackage=0
; DriverOnly=1 means install drivers only, 0 means install both APs and
drivers.
DriverOnly=1
; InstallWDMDriver=0 means install VxD driver, 1 means install WDM driver
InstallWDMDriver=1
bLINEINasREAR=1
bLINEINasBASS=0
bMICasBASS=0
bMidi=1
bGamePort=1
bOnSoundCard=0

~~~~~~~~

Ok... Found it under Control Panel GUI Sounds and Audio DevicesVolume
Tab Speaker SettingsAdvancedAdvanced Audio Properties Speaker Setup
It was set to 5.1 Surround Sound, I changed it to
"Desktop Stereo Speakers". (there were 14 choices).
I "APPLYed" it. No change. (Probably requires a reboot for any change to
take effect.) When I reboot after i send this message, i will check to
see if the change "took".

jim

On Sat, 24 Mar 2012 10:41:15 -0500, in
microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, jim , wrote

Ok... Found it under Control Panel GUI Sounds and Audio DevicesVolume
Tab Speaker SettingsAdvancedAdvanced Audio Properties Speaker Setup
It was set to 5.1 Surround Sound, I changed it to
"Desktop Stereo Speakers". (there were 14 choices).
I "APPLYed" it. No change. (Probably requires a reboot for any change to
take effect.) When I reboot after i send this message, i will check to
see if the change "took".

jim

You guys are magicians! I rebooted and started some classical which was
in a violin solo and then went to a crescendo. No distortions. (And
suitably loud)

Thanks!

jim

jim wrote:
On Sat, 24 Mar 2012 10:41:15 -0500, in
microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, jim , wrote

Ok... Found it under Control Panel GUI Sounds and Audio DevicesVolume
Tab Speaker SettingsAdvancedAdvanced Audio Properties Speaker Setup
It was set to 5.1 Surround Sound, I changed it to
"Desktop Stereo Speakers". (there were 14 choices).
I "APPLYed" it. No change. (Probably requires a reboot for any change to
take effect.) When I reboot after i send this message, i will check to
see if the change "took".

jim

You guys are magicians! I rebooted and started some classical which was
in a violin solo and then went to a crescendo. No distortions. (And
suitably loud)

Thanks!

jim


It's a guessing game. But aided by your good observation on the headphones.

I've suffered enough misery on my own cheap sound solutions, and
the things they do in the driver are not to be trusted :-)
They can't just send the sound samples to the speakers,
without "playing" with them.

If you think you've had trouble so far, try and get some
3D games to sound right. On my current sound solution,
if I slip on headphones, the "separation" on the sound effects
is all wrong, even though the control panel knows I'm using
headphones and not speakers. My "solution" is to not use
headphones :-( What should happen, is the level of mixing
between left and right, is supposed to be different for speakers
versus headphones.

Paul

On Sat, 24 Mar 2012 13:10:09 -0400, in
microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, Paul , wrote

jim wrote:
On Sat, 24 Mar 2012 10:41:15 -0500, in
microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, jim , wrote

Ok... Found it under Control Panel GUI Sounds and Audio DevicesVolume
Tab Speaker SettingsAdvancedAdvanced Audio Properties Speaker Setup
It was set to 5.1 Surround Sound, I changed it to
"Desktop Stereo Speakers". (there were 14 choices).
I "APPLYed" it. No change. (Probably requires a reboot for any change to
take effect.) When I reboot after i send this message, i will check to
see if the change "took".

jim

You guys are magicians! I rebooted and started some classical which was
in a violin solo and then went to a crescendo. No distortions. (And
suitably loud)

Thanks!

jim


It's a guessing game. But aided by your good observation on the headphones.

I've suffered enough misery on my own cheap sound solutions, and
the things they do in the driver are not to be trusted :-)
They can't just send the sound samples to the speakers,
without "playing" with them.

If you think you've had trouble so far, try and get some
3D games to sound right. On my current sound solution,
if I slip on headphones, the "separation" on the sound effects
is all wrong, even though the control panel knows I'm using
headphones and not speakers. My "solution" is to not use
headphones :-( What should happen, is the level of mixing
between left and right, is supposed to be different for speakers
versus headphones.

Paul


I spoke too soon! :-)

My change in Audio properties -- Speaker Settings does not stick between
reboots. IOW, I set it to Desktop Stereo, reboot and i find it has become
5.1 surround again.

My thought is that, at boot, it reads a config file and changes the set up
based on that.

I know that everyone but me remembers the exact sequence and details of
the 500 things they did when they set up a system.

Trying to reconstruct the sequence of events, i am close to sure that this
is what happened:

Originally, from the OS itself, I had no sound at all.

I installed the CMI8738 driver, set it to 5.1 surround sound and had front
speakers active only. (And I figure at that time the config file [or
whatever] was written.)

I later installed the Xear 3D CD and had all speakers active.

If I was suggesting to someone what to do, I would say uninstall both and
then reinstall, but I am loathe to do that with so much experience of "if
only i could get back to where i started".

Any ideas?

jim

jim wrote:
On Sat, 24 Mar 2012 13:10:09 -0400, in
microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, Paul , wrote

jim wrote:
On Sat, 24 Mar 2012 10:41:15 -0500, in
microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, jim , wrote

Ok... Found it under Control Panel GUI Sounds and Audio DevicesVolume
Tab Speaker SettingsAdvancedAdvanced Audio Properties Speaker Setup
It was set to 5.1 Surround Sound, I changed it to
"Desktop Stereo Speakers". (there were 14 choices).
I "APPLYed" it. No change. (Probably requires a reboot for any change to
take effect.) When I reboot after i send this message, i will check to
see if the change "took".

jim
You guys are magicians! I rebooted and started some classical which was
in a violin solo and then went to a crescendo. No distortions. (And
suitably loud)

Thanks!

jim

It's a guessing game. But aided by your good observation on the headphones.

I've suffered enough misery on my own cheap sound solutions, and
the things they do in the driver are not to be trusted :-)
They can't just send the sound samples to the speakers,
without "playing" with them.

If you think you've had trouble so far, try and get some
3D games to sound right. On my current sound solution,
if I slip on headphones, the "separation" on the sound effects
is all wrong, even though the control panel knows I'm using
headphones and not speakers. My "solution" is to not use
headphones :-( What should happen, is the level of mixing
between left and right, is supposed to be different for speakers
versus headphones.

Paul


I spoke too soon! :-)

My change in Audio properties -- Speaker Settings does not stick between
reboots. IOW, I set it to Desktop Stereo, reboot and i find it has become
5.1 surround again.

My thought is that, at boot, it reads a config file and changes the set up
based on that.

I know that everyone but me remembers the exact sequence and details of
the 500 things they did when they set up a system.

Trying to reconstruct the sequence of events, i am close to sure that this
is what happened:

Originally, from the OS itself, I had no sound at all.

I installed the CMI8738 driver, set it to 5.1 surround sound and had front
speakers active only. (And I figure at that time the config file [or
whatever] was written.)

I later installed the Xear 3D CD and had all speakers active.

If I was suggesting to someone what to do, I would say uninstall both and
then reinstall, but I am loathe to do that with so much experience of "if
only i could get back to where i started".

Any ideas?

jim


In my limited experience, uninstalling and reinstalling, hardly ever
fixes anything.

*******

Software consists of two parts.

(1) .exe files, .dll files, the "code" that makes the thing work.
(2) user preferences

On the *first* installation,

(2) let's give the user some nice default preferences.

On using the removal option in "Add/Remove"

(2) let's leave these preferences here, in case the user wants them later

On the *second* installation,

(2) Oh, goody! The user already has preferences in place. I will
not overwrite them, because I respect the user's good taste
in preferences.

Now, you can see that computers will "remember" a bad set of preferences
forever. The software lacks "please remove ever speck of this crap"
on a remove. The software lacks "please *overwrite* all of my old
settings - I want to forget about what happened the last time".
Since installers lack even basic common sense, we're left with
"computers we can't control".

This is how you'd go about fixing it.

a) Use regedit, while the software is in place. Perhaps you see some
registry entries with "XEARS" or "Cmedia" in the name. What you're
doing in this step, is analyzing how the installer/software writers
choose to label their settings. To get a better idea of what
"should be disappearing".

b) Run the uninstaller. Reboot. Go check regedit again. Are all the
"XEARS" or "Cmedia" entries gone ? OK, remove the ones that are
still there (taking careful note they're not in some system area
you could damage).

Now, why won't this recipe work ? Well, the damn software splatters
settings all over the place. For CMedia for example, there is
some "mixer" reg entry, that doesn't have CMedia in the name, and
it's actually key to preventing problems. I only located that
one, by using Process Monitor from Sysinternals, and tracking
it down like a dog. I had to scroll through 100,000 registry
transactions, to find it.

To really get some idea of how a software works, you would:

*) Install OS fresh. Capture registry files.

*) Install CMedia. Capture registry files after reboot.

*) Find a means of computing "registry differences" between the
two sets of captured files. (Perhaps convert registry file to
"text" and diff the text to spot the difference ?)

*) Install XEARS. Repeat computing differences, to see how
XEARS upsets CMedia or upsets the vanilla system (such as
screwing with that mixer setting).

You'd really be a little nutso, after doing all that.

There are third party tools, which automate that kind of tracking.
I don't own any and know nothing about them. You can see from
the algorithm description, such an approach is dangerous
(deleting the wrong thing, like a "registry cleaner" might).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZSoft_Uninstaller

Some drivers, the authors of the drivers know what a bad job
they've done, and they offer a "driver cleaner" from their website.
Matrox, ATI, and Nvidia have had such things (either they wrote them,
or someone in the user community writes one). For example, I
might have used "Detonator Destroyer" back in the day, as a name
that comes to mind.

Some of the "remover" tools, work from knowledge the tool
developer determined in a lab setting. Which means the
tool is just working from a script. While that ZSoft example,
claims to compute diffs and work out for itself, what to do.
Such a tool, that computes diffs, has to be installed early
after the OS is installed, to have "good records" to work with.
I.e. Install the ZSoft before installing the video driver and
sound driver.

*******

If you think the CMedia software is bad, some of the Promise
software doesn't even come with an installer. And good luck
figuring out how to get rid of it. In that case, you open
the .INF file in the software folder provided, read the
commands in the .INF, to get some idea what you need to
remove or override. Pure hell.

For someone who is better at this stuff than I am, this is
no problem at all...

Paul

On Sun, 25 Mar 2012 13:09:00 -0400, in
microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, Paul , wrote

jim wrote:
On Sat, 24 Mar 2012 13:10:09 -0400, in
microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, Paul , wrote

jim wrote:
On Sat, 24 Mar 2012 10:41:15 -0500, in
microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, jim , wrote

Ok... Found it under Control Panel GUI Sounds and Audio DevicesVolume
Tab Speaker SettingsAdvancedAdvanced Audio Properties Speaker Setup
It was set to 5.1 Surround Sound, I changed it to
"Desktop Stereo Speakers". (there were 14 choices).
I "APPLYed" it. No change. (Probably requires a reboot for any change to
take effect.) When I reboot after i send this message, i will check to
see if the change "took".

jim
You guys are magicians! I rebooted and started some classical which was
in a violin solo and then went to a crescendo. No distortions. (And
suitably loud)

Thanks!

jim

It's a guessing game. But aided by your good observation on the headphones.

I've suffered enough misery on my own cheap sound solutions, and
the things they do in the driver are not to be trusted :-)
They can't just send the sound samples to the speakers,
without "playing" with them.

If you think you've had trouble so far, try and get some
3D games to sound right. On my current sound solution,
if I slip on headphones, the "separation" on the sound effects
is all wrong, even though the control panel knows I'm using
headphones and not speakers. My "solution" is to not use
headphones :-( What should happen, is the level of mixing
between left and right, is supposed to be different for speakers
versus headphones.

Paul


I spoke too soon! :-)

My change in Audio properties -- Speaker Settings does not stick between
reboots. IOW, I set it to Desktop Stereo, reboot and i find it has become
5.1 surround again.

My thought is that, at boot, it reads a config file and changes the set up
based on that.

I know that everyone but me remembers the exact sequence and details of
the 500 things they did when they set up a system.

Trying to reconstruct the sequence of events, i am close to sure that this
is what happened:

Originally, from the OS itself, I had no sound at all.

I installed the CMI8738 driver, set it to 5.1 surround sound and had front
speakers active only. (And I figure at that time the config file [or
whatever] was written.)

I later installed the Xear 3D CD and had all speakers active.

If I was suggesting to someone what to do, I would say uninstall both and
then reinstall, but I am loathe to do that with so much experience of "if
only i could get back to where i started".

Any ideas?

jim


In my limited experience, uninstalling and reinstalling, hardly ever
fixes anything.

*******

Software consists of two parts.

(1) .exe files, .dll files, the "code" that makes the thing work.
(2) user preferences

On the *first* installation,

(2) let's give the user some nice default preferences.

On using the removal option in "Add/Remove"

(2) let's leave these preferences here, in case the user wants them later


I have made use of this uh, "feature". By selectively copying the D&S
settings from an old system to the D&S of a new system, i have managed to
automagically re-license software previously licensed in the old system
but in a shareware state in the new system.

Otherwise, I have the REVO uninstaller which *i understand* is supposed to
remove all traces of an app.


On the *second* installation,

(2) Oh, goody! The user already has preferences in place. I will
not overwrite them, because I respect the user's good taste
in preferences.

Now, you can see that computers will "remember" a bad set of preferences
forever. The software lacks "please remove ever speck of this crap"
on a remove. The software lacks "please *overwrite* all of my old
settings - I want to forget about what happened the last time".
Since installers lack even basic common sense, we're left with
"computers we can't control".

This is how you'd go about fixing it.

a) Use regedit, while the software is in place. Perhaps you see some
registry entries with "XEARS" or "Cmedia" in the name. What you're
doing in this step, is analyzing how the installer/software writers
choose to label their settings. To get a better idea of what
"should be disappearing".

b) Run the uninstaller. Reboot. Go check regedit again. Are all the
"XEARS" or "Cmedia" entries gone ? OK, remove the ones that are
still there (taking careful note they're not in some system area
you could damage).

Now, why won't this recipe work ? Well, the damn software splatters
settings all over the place.

For CMedia for example, there is
some "mixer" reg entry, that doesn't have CMedia in the name, and
it's actually key to preventing problems.

I found "mixer.exe" early this morning in the CMI8738_WDM_0639XP
subdirectory that was created by installing the driver. It is now in
systray, after latest driver install (about 2 hours ago.)

I only located that
one, by using Process Monitor from Sysinternals, and tracking
it down like a dog. I had to scroll through 100,000 registry
transactions, to find it.

To really get some idea of how a software works, you would:

*) Install OS fresh. Capture registry files.

*) Install CMedia. Capture registry files after reboot.

*) Find a means of computing "registry differences" between the
two sets of captured files. (Perhaps convert registry file to
"text" and diff the text to spot the difference ?)

*) Install XEARS. Repeat computing differences, to see how
XEARS upsets CMedia or upsets the vanilla system (such as
screwing with that mixer setting).

You'd really be a little nutso, after doing all that.

For sure! I once had a scrolling window that showed all registry accesses
and it was maddening. Maybe at one time it was reasonable -- and
comprehensible.


There are third party tools, which automate that kind of tracking.
I don't own any and know nothing about them. You can see from
the algorithm description, such an approach is dangerous
(deleting the wrong thing, like a "registry cleaner" might).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZSoft_Uninstaller

Some drivers, the authors of the drivers know what a bad job
they've done, and they offer a "driver cleaner" from their website.
Matrox, ATI, and Nvidia have had such things (either they wrote them,
or someone in the user community writes one). For example, I
might have used "Detonator Destroyer" back in the day, as a name
that comes to mind.

Some of the "remover" tools, work from knowledge the tool
developer determined in a lab setting. Which means the
tool is just working from a script. While that ZSoft example,
claims to compute diffs and work out for itself, what to do.
Such a tool, that computes diffs, has to be installed early
after the OS is installed, to have "good records" to work with.
I.e. Install the ZSoft before installing the video driver and
sound driver.

*******

If you think the CMedia software is bad, some of the Promise
software doesn't even come with an installer. And good luck
figuring out how to get rid of it. In that case, you open
the .INF file in the software folder provided, read the
commands in the .INF, to get some idea what you need to
remove or override. Pure hell.

Possibly the reason that i have always considered drivers an animal unto
themselves. The first experience I had with a driver was with a panasonic
printer on a 386 with the driver file on a floppy and instructions to 'put
it somewhere on the path'.


For someone who is better at this stuff than I am, this is
no problem at all...

Paul

Anyway, where i am now, is only the two front speakers (1 set) is active.
That set is plugged into front speaker plug of the Xear add-on card. The
original ASUS MB in/out/mic audio ports are not active.

What happened -- I opened add/remove programs from control panel, went
down to PCI driver which said "Change/Remove" and clicked it. I expected
a dialogue box offering to change settings or to remove -- but no.....i
got an immediate confirmation that the PCI driver had been removed and an
offer to restart the computer now or later. Knowing what would come next,
i said "later" and enjoyed some classical before i rebooted the computer
-- at which time there was no sound at all -- Winamp reported "Soundcard
not found".

Internet connection was also gone. That has anything to do with the
soundcard? Who knew?

Pretty hard to download a new driver with no internet connection so i had
to address that first. Two restarts and no joy. Connection would not
enable, etc. A complete shutdown, drain the bios (that has something to
do with it?) and a cold start put my Internet connection back in order.

I got the CMI8738 driver from CNET. Installed it -- being careful to
choose "desktop stereo", did a warm boot and audio joy -- except I have
front speakers only. I suppose the next move is to reinstall the third
party Xear 3D package. That installation *should* activate the other jack
plugs. However, since I have been on this for 8 hours now, I think that i
will appreciate what i do have and worry about the Xear 3D and it's
fornt/rear/center/subwoofer capabilities and
nice-graphics-for-no-real-reason another day.

There is NO distortion (yet) and no artifacts (yet). I miss the deep
window shaking bass and super high highs from that 4 foot 3-way dual
midrange floor tower in back of the monitor but for now the front speakers
only (Cambridge Soundworks), will do.

The tower is powered by the business half of an old set of computer
speakers in a rube goldberg hookup scenario. My whole computer system is
a real Frankensteinian conglomerarion -- i am probably the only person who
has a 16x20 furnace filter as one side of the computer case (for
airflow)....but when the system works, it works great.


jim

"jim" wrote in message ...
On Thu, 22 Mar 2012 09:04:56 -0500, in
microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, "Hot-Text" ,
wrote

"jim" wrote in message ...
OS: Windows XP Pro,SP3
Audio Codec: CMI8738
Affected: All audio output
Third Party: Xear 3D Audio (set for 6 speakers, I have 5)

The audio output is distorted including the Windows start up wave. String
instruments sound out of tune, Wind instruments sound as if they have
vibrators attached, etc. -- that sort of thing. If I had to guess as to
"sounds like", i would guess that the audio sounds like it was
over-recorded.

My control is that i had a Win XP Pro,SP2 setup on the same hardware, same
software -- on the same machine -- and it was clear as a bell.

Any ideas?


jim

Up date you Computer Audio Drives,
the the new SP3 OS..

Excellent idea!

Thanks,


Jim we need more Info like this to help.

I Hot-Test is running

System:
Mycroft Windows XP
Media Center Edition
Version 2002
Service Pack 3

Computer:
HP Pavilion a1319h
Intel®
Pentium® 4 CPU 2.93GHz
2.93GHz, 960 MB of RAM


Realtek HD Audio:
Audio Driver Version: 5.10.00.5172
DirectX Version: DirectX9.0c
Audio Controller: HD Audio
Audio Codec: ALC882