I may have posted this before

I'm an XP fanatic but I hate to let this one go by unshared.

http://mewnlite.com/NoDefragNeeded.gif

--
-- I'm retired. I was tired yesterday. I'm tired again today --

In message XnsA028C5231F748butter@wefb973cbe498, Retired
writes:
I'm an XP fanatic but I hate to let this one go by unshared.

http://mewnlite.com/NoDefragNeeded.gif

Interesting; what's the background to that image?
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

I believe the cake has got to be sliced up to help those who are needy and
you've got to keep someone there who's going to make the cake. Here we always
destroy the people who make the cake. - Michael Caine (MM), RT, 7-13 Nov 2009.

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in
:

In message XnsA028C5231F748butter@wefb973cbe498, Retired
writes:
I'm an XP fanatic but I hate to let this one go by unshared.

http://mewnlite.com/NoDefragNeeded.gif

Interesting; what's the background to that image?

To be honest I don't really remember. It came up someone's computer a
couple of years ago when I was working on it. I took a screen shot of it
but I don't think I ever posted it. I just happened to run across it in one
of my "saved stuff" folders today.

I remember thinking about cloning that drive to a bigger drive and then
running defrag again. I'm not sure what I did anymore but I don't think I'd
have let it out of here without resolving it some way or another... :-)

--
-- I'm retired. I was tired yesterday. I'm tired again today --

On Mon, 02 Apr 2012 02:58:51 -0500, Retired
wrote:

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in
:

In message XnsA028C5231F748butter@wefb973cbe498, Retired
writes:
I'm an XP fanatic but I hate to let this one go by unshared.

http://mewnlite.com/NoDefragNeeded.gif

Interesting; what's the background to that image?

To be honest I don't really remember. It came up someone's computer a
couple of years ago when I was working on it. I took a screen shot of it
but I don't think I ever posted it. I just happened to run across it in one
of my "saved stuff" folders today.

I remember thinking about cloning that drive to a bigger drive and then
running defrag again. I'm not sure what I did anymore but I don't think I'd
have let it out of here without resolving it some way or another... :-)


I'm not sure what the limit is, but I had an occasion a few years ago
where my drive was way too full and wouldn't defrag. I was told that
at a certain point, defrag will not work if the drive is too full. I
was in the process of installing a much larger C: drive so I didn't
worry about it.

From: "Barry Bruyea"

On Mon, 02 Apr 2012 02:58:51 -0500, Retired
wrote:

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in
:

In message XnsA028C5231F748butter@wefb973cbe498, Retired
writes:
I'm an XP fanatic but I hate to let this one go by unshared.

http://mewnlite.com/NoDefragNeeded.gif

Interesting; what's the background to that image?

To be honest I don't really remember. It came up someone's computer a
couple of years ago when I was working on it. I took a screen shot of it
but I don't think I ever posted it. I just happened to run across it in
one
of my "saved stuff" folders today.

I remember thinking about cloning that drive to a bigger drive and then
running defrag again. I'm not sure what I did anymore but I don't think
I'd
have let it out of here without resolving it some way or another... :-)

I'm not sure what the limit is, but I had an occasion a few years ago
where my drive was way too full and wouldn't defrag. I was told that
at a certain point, defrag will not work if the drive is too full. I
was in the process of installing a much larger C: drive so I didn't
worry about it.

To defrag, you must have at least 15% free space.

--
Dave
Multi-AV Scanning Tool - http://multi-av.thespykiller.co.uk
http://www.pctipp.ch/downloads/dl/35905.asp

"David H. Lipman" wrote in
:

From: "Barry Bruyea"

On Mon, 02 Apr 2012 02:58:51 -0500, Retired
wrote:

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in
:

In message XnsA028C5231F748butter@wefb973cbe498, Retired
writes:
I'm an XP fanatic but I hate to let this one go by unshared.

http://mewnlite.com/NoDefragNeeded.gif

Interesting; what's the background to that image?

To be honest I don't really remember. It came up someone's computer
a couple of years ago when I was working on it. I took a screen shot
of it but I don't think I ever posted it. I just happened to run
across it in one
of my "saved stuff" folders today.

I remember thinking about cloning that drive to a bigger drive and
then running defrag again. I'm not sure what I did anymore but I
don't think I'd
have let it out of here without resolving it some way or another...
:-)

I'm not sure what the limit is, but I had an occasion a few years ago
where my drive was way too full and wouldn't defrag. I was told that
at a certain point, defrag will not work if the drive is too full. I
was in the process of installing a much larger C: drive so I didn't
worry about it.

To defrag, you must have at least 15% free space.

On the screenshot, it claims there's 26% free. But if you look at the bar
graph, there doesn't appear to be that much white space.


--
-- I'm retired. I was tired yesterday. I'm tired again today --

Retired wrote:
"David H. Lipman" wrote in
:

From: "Barry Bruyea"

On Mon, 02 Apr 2012 02:58:51 -0500, Retired
wrote:

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in
:

In message XnsA028C5231F748butter@wefb973cbe498, Retired
writes:
I'm an XP fanatic but I hate to let this one go by unshared.

http://mewnlite.com/NoDefragNeeded.gif

Interesting; what's the background to that image?

To be honest I don't really remember. It came up someone's computer
a couple of years ago when I was working on it. I took a screen shot
of it but I don't think I ever posted it. I just happened to run
across it in one
of my "saved stuff" folders today.

I remember thinking about cloning that drive to a bigger drive and
then running defrag again. I'm not sure what I did anymore but I
don't think I'd
have let it out of here without resolving it some way or another...
:-)

I'm not sure what the limit is, but I had an occasion a few years ago
where my drive was way too full and wouldn't defrag. I was told that
at a certain point, defrag will not work if the drive is too full. I
was in the process of installing a much larger C: drive so I didn't
worry about it.

To defrag, you must have at least 15% free space.

On the screenshot, it claims there's 26% free. But if you look at the bar
graph, there doesn't appear to be that much white space.

You would think a good defragger would be able to use the interspersed space
anyway, however, as tedious as that may be for the defragger.

I've sometimes found it's quicker to defrag a really fragmented partition by
employing a backdoor approach:

Just image the fragmented partition to another drive, and then go back and
restore the image.

On 4/2/12 1:28 PM, Bill in Co wrote:
Just image the fragmented partition to another drive, and then go back and
restore the image.

When you say "image".... I'll assume you are using some kind of disk
imaging/backup program.

But, you could just copy from A to B and then back to A. :-)

--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.6.8
Firefox 11.0
Thunderbird 11.0.1
LibreOffice 3.5.0 rc3

From: "Ken Springer"

On 4/2/12 1:28 PM, Bill in Co wrote:
Just image the fragmented partition to another drive, and then go back
and
restore the image.

When you say "image".... I'll assume you are using some kind of disk
imaging/backup program.

But, you could just copy from A to B and then back to A. :-)


Imaging software, not backup software.



--
Dave
Multi-AV Scanning Tool - http://multi-av.thespykiller.co.uk
http://www.pctipp.ch/downloads/dl/35905.asp

On 4/2/12 2:19 PM, David H. Lipman wrote:
From: "Ken

On 4/2/12 1:28 PM, Bill in Co wrote:
Just image the fragmented partition to another drive, and then go back
and
restore the image.

When you say "image".... I'll assume you are using some kind of disk
imaging/backup program.

But, you could just copy from A to B and then back to A. :-)


Imaging software, not backup software.

But, if you backed up on a file by file basis, wouldn't the result be
the same, i.e. you end up defragging the files?


--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.6.8
Firefox 11.0
Thunderbird 11.0.1
LibreOffice 3.5.0 rc3

Ken Springer wrote:
On 4/2/12 1:28 PM, Bill in Co wrote:
Just image the fragmented partition to another drive, and then go back
and
restore the image.

When you say "image".... I'll assume you are using some kind of disk
imaging/backup program.

Absolutely. In my case, Acronis True Image Home (an older edition).

But, you could just copy from A to B and then back to A. :-)

This won't do the same thing (the files will still be scattered on the disk,
although each file may be contiguous.

From: "Ken Springer"

On 4/2/12 2:19 PM, David H. Lipman wrote:
From: "Ken

On 4/2/12 1:28 PM, Bill in Co wrote:
Just image the fragmented partition to another drive, and then go back
and
restore the image.

When you say "image".... I'll assume you are using some kind of disk
imaging/backup program.

But, you could just copy from A to B and then back to A. :-)

Imaging software, not backup software.

But, if you backed up on a file by file basis, wouldn't the result be the
same, i.e. you end up defragging the files?


No, it is not the same. Imaging software works at the file system level
while backup software only works at the file level. Imaging software works
outside the OS such that Open File Handles are not a problem while backup
software runs within the OS.

If a hard disk is using FAT and your image it you get the FAT table and all
file entries and is OS partition type independent. Backup software does not
look at the partition table and only operates on tghe files and is OS
dependent.

With imaging software you can create an image and restore it to a bare
drive.
With backup software you have to format the drive before you can restore
files and folders.

Take the MyGig video entertainment system in my Dodge Grand Caravan. I can
remove the harddisk, use an imaging software like Ghost and restore it to a
larger bare drive. The MyGig REN has a proprietary OS and there is no
backup software that will run under that OS.

Backup software and imaging software should not be confused with each other.


--
Dave
Multi-AV Scanning Tool - http://multi-av.thespykiller.co.uk
http://www.pctipp.ch/downloads/dl/35905.asp

On 4/2/12 3:27 PM, David H. Lipman wrote:
From: "Ken

On 4/2/12 2:19 PM, David H. Lipman wrote:
From: "Ken

On 4/2/12 1:28 PM, Bill in Co wrote:
Just image the fragmented partition to another drive, and then go back
and
restore the image.

When you say "image".... I'll assume you are using some kind of disk
imaging/backup program.

But, you could just copy from A to B and then back to A. :-)

Imaging software, not backup software.

But, if you backed up on a file by file basis, wouldn't the result be the
same, i.e. you end up defragging the files?


No, it is not the same. Imaging software works at the file system level
while backup software only works at the file level. Imaging software works
outside the OS such that Open File Handles are not a problem while backup
software runs within the OS.

If a hard disk is using FAT and your image it you get the FAT table and all
file entries and is OS partition type independent. Backup software does not
look at the partition table and only operates on tghe files and is OS
dependent.

With imaging software you can create an image and restore it to a bare
drive.
With backup software you have to format the drive before you can restore
files and folders.

Take the MyGig video entertainment system in my Dodge Grand Caravan. I can
remove the harddisk, use an imaging software like Ghost and restore it to a
larger bare drive. The MyGig REN has a proprietary OS and there is no
backup software that will run under that OS.

Backup software and imaging software should not be confused with each other.

I've always looked at "imaging" a drive to be analogous to the old DOS
Diskcopy command, where "backing up" drive to be analogous to copying files.

Not so? Ignoring fine points and normal evolution of processes. :-)

One of the early tricks for defragging Atari TOS drives was to simply
copy files from the fragmented drive to an empty drive and then copying
back. If memory serves, early TOS versions put files at the end of the
drive, not the beginning, making drive access slower.




--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.6.8
Firefox 11.0
Thunderbird 11.0.1
LibreOffice 3.5.0 rc3

From: "Ken Springer"

On 4/2/12 3:27 PM, David H. Lipman wrote:
From: "Ken

On 4/2/12 2:19 PM, David H. Lipman wrote:
From: "Ken

On 4/2/12 1:28 PM, Bill in Co wrote:
Just image the fragmented partition to another drive, and then go
back
and
restore the image.

When you say "image".... I'll assume you are using some kind of disk
imaging/backup program.

But, you could just copy from A to B and then back to A. :-)

Imaging software, not backup software.

But, if you backed up on a file by file basis, wouldn't the result be
the
same, i.e. you end up defragging the files?

No, it is not the same. Imaging software works at the file system level
while backup software only works at the file level. Imaging software
works
outside the OS such that Open File Handles are not a problem while backup
software runs within the OS.

If a hard disk is using FAT and your image it you get the FAT table and
all
file entries and is OS partition type independent. Backup software does
not
look at the partition table and only operates on tghe files and is OS
dependent.

With imaging software you can create an image and restore it to a bare
drive.
With backup software you have to format the drive before you can restore
files and folders.

Take the MyGig video entertainment system in my Dodge Grand Caravan. I
can
remove the harddisk, use an imaging software like Ghost and restore it to
a
larger bare drive. The MyGig REN has a proprietary OS and there is no
backup software that will run under that OS.

Backup software and imaging software should not be confused with each
other.

I've always looked at "imaging" a drive to be analogous to the old DOS
Diskcopy command, where "backing up" drive to be analogous to copying
files.

Not so? Ignoring fine points and normal evolution of processes. :-)

One of the early tricks for defragging Atari TOS drives was to simply copy
files from the fragmented drive to an empty drive and then copying back.
If memory serves, early TOS versions put files at the end of the drive,
not the beginning, making drive access slower.


XXCOPY, COPY, ROBOCOPY and XCOPY are examples of command line utilitiies but
aren't realy backup software. Backup software copies files but places them
in a archival, compressable, type of format that can be written to media
which could be a disk file, tape or optical disk.



--
Dave
Multi-AV Scanning Tool - http://multi-av.thespykiller.co.uk
http://www.pctipp.ch/downloads/dl/35905.asp

Ken Springer wrote:
On 4/2/12 3:27 PM, David H. Lipman wrote:
From: "Ken

On 4/2/12 2:19 PM, David H. Lipman wrote:
From: "Ken

On 4/2/12 1:28 PM, Bill in Co wrote:
Just image the fragmented partition to another drive, and then go
back
and
restore the image.

When you say "image".... I'll assume you are using some kind of disk
imaging/backup program.

But, you could just copy from A to B and then back to A. :-)

Imaging software, not backup software.

But, if you backed up on a file by file basis, wouldn't the result be
the
same, i.e. you end up defragging the files?


No, it is not the same. Imaging software works at the file system level
while backup software only works at the file level. Imaging software
works
outside the OS such that Open File Handles are not a problem while backup
software runs within the OS.

If a hard disk is using FAT and your image it you get the FAT table and
all
file entries and is OS partition type independent. Backup software does
not
look at the partition table and only operates on tghe files and is OS
dependent.

With imaging software you can create an image and restore it to a bare
drive.
With backup software you have to format the drive before you can restore
files and folders.

Take the MyGig video entertainment system in my Dodge Grand Caravan. I
can
remove the harddisk, use an imaging software like Ghost and restore it to
a
larger bare drive. The MyGig REN has a proprietary OS and there is no
backup software that will run under that OS.

Backup software and imaging software should not be confused with each
other.

I've always looked at "imaging" a drive to be analogous to the old DOS
Diskcopy command, where "backing up" drive to be analogous to copying
files.

Not so? Ignoring fine points and normal evolution of processes. :-)

No, not so. Diskcopy simply makes an exact disk copy (fragmented or not),
so if the source was fragmented, the destination will be too, as I recall.

"Imaging" (by that I mean using ATI, or another disk imaging program, to
create a disk image, and then restoring it later) is different in that it
packs the data all together in one large image file, which, when restored,
results in a completed defragged partition. It's easy to check that out
too, since when you bring up defrag after doing this step, it looks
perfect - i.e., there are no gaps whatsoever).

Again, I'm talking about the general case here. (Copying files over to a
brand new virgin drive would be pretty rare).

One of the early tricks for defragging Atari TOS drives was to simply
copy files from the fragmented drive to an empty drive and then copying
back. If memory serves, early TOS versions put files at the end of the
drive, not the beginning, making drive access slower.




--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.6.8
Firefox 11.0
Thunderbird 11.0.1
LibreOffice 3.5.0 rc3