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[OT]: DNA pioneer James Watson stripped of honours after 'reckless'race remarks
In the latest documentary, the molecular biologist says that genes
cause a difference on average between black people and white people in IQ tests. https://news.sky.com/story/dna-pioneer-james-watson-stripped-of-honours-after-reckless-race-remarks-11606108 -- With over 950 million devices now running Windows 10, customer satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows. |
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[OT]: DNA pioneer James Watson stripped of honours after 'reckless' race remarks
On Sun, 13 Jan 2019 03:23:51 +0000, ? Good Guy ?
wrote: In the latest documentary, the molecular biologist says that genes cause a difference on average between black people and white people in IQ tests. https://news.sky.com/story/dna-pioneer-james-watson-stripped-of-honours-after-reckless-race-remarks-11606108 Not the first man hanged for speaking up. Ever since the end of colonialism in the 1960s Africa has gone back to be the feotid steaming bog of old, with any of its wealth ending up in Swiss banks and overseas real estate. |
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[OT]: DNA pioneer James Watson stripped of honours after'reckless' race remarks
On 13/01/2019 20:44, Peter Jason wrote:
Not the first man hanged for speaking up. Ever since the end of colonialism in the 1960s Africa has gone back to be the feotid steaming bog of old, with any of its wealth ending up in Swiss banks and overseas real estate. One thing I have noticed is that people talk about "unsupported by science" but when somebody publishes a paper about these things, they are fired or prosecuted or strip off everything they have achieved in their lifetime like in this case!!. How can you you have scientific evidence if the rules are against them and other scientists are not allowed to continue with the research!!. Mind you I am against anybody making any claims without proof but I allow them to produce the proof which can be scrutinised by the academics and people with the relevant experience and knowledge. I am also against anybody silencing anybody who makes controversial statements. People should be allowed to say whatever they want as long as there a "right-of-reply" which is given equal prominence. -- With over 950 million devices now running Windows 10, customer satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows. |
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[OT]: DNA pioneer James Watson stripped of honours after 'reckless' race remarks
On Sun, 13 Jan 2019 21:13:31 +0000, ? Good Guy ?
wrote: On 13/01/2019 20:44, Peter Jason wrote: Not the first man hanged for speaking up. Ever since the end of colonialism in the 1960s Africa has gone back to be the feotid steaming bog of old, with any of its wealth ending up in Swiss banks and overseas real estate. One thing I have noticed is that people talk about "unsupported by science" but when somebody publishes a paper about these things, they are fired or prosecuted or strip off everything they have achieved in their lifetime like in this case!!. How can you you have scientific evidence if the rules are against them and other scientists are not allowed to continue with the research!!. Mind you I am against anybody making any claims without proof Read 'The Bell Curve'. but I allow them to produce the proof which can be scrutinised by the academics and people with the relevant experience and knowledge. I am also against anybody silencing anybody who makes controversial statements. People should be allowed to say whatever they want as long as there a "right-of-reply" which is given equal prominence. -- Regards, Eric Stevens |
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[OT]: DNA pioneer James Watson stripped of honours after'reckless' race remarks
On 01/12/2019 07:23 PM, 😉 Good Guy 😉 wrote:
In the latest documentary, the molecular biologist says that genes cause a difference on average between black people and white people in IQ tests. I see a great opportunity in this. If we exported you from England to, say, Cameroon, we'd raise the average IQ of both countries. |
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[OT]: DNA pioneer James Watson stripped of honours after'reckless' race remarks
On 1/13/2019 8:44 PM, Peter Jason wrote:
On Sun, 13 Jan 2019 03:23:51 +0000, ? Good Guy ? wrote: In the latest documentary, the molecular biologist says that genes cause a difference on average between black people and white people in IQ tests. https://news.sky.com/story/dna-pioneer-james-watson-stripped-of-honours-after-reckless-race-remarks-11606108 Not the first man hanged for speaking up. Ever since the end of colonialism in the 1960s Africa has gone back to be the feotid steaming bog of old, with any of its wealth ending up in Swiss banks and overseas real estate. Apart from that how was your goat hunt? |
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[OT]: DNA pioneer James Watson stripped of honours after 'reckless' race remarks
In article , Wolf K
wrote: You can't infer individual characteristics from a bell curve, or _any_ averages. Yet that is what proponents of "average scores" want to do. Else why bother? The fact is that a bell curve means there are multiple factors affecting the thing you're measuring. You don't know what those factors are. not always. sometimes it's just one variable. What's more, it's devilishly difficult to figure out what those factors might be, and to discover the extent of their influence. What's more, you can be sure that any one factor's effect will depend on at least one other factor's effect. if it's more than one, that's true, but that's not always the case. |
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[OT]: DNA pioneer James Watson stripped of honours after 'reckless' race remarks
On Sun, 13 Jan 2019 21:58:27 -0800, Junco wrote:
On 01/12/2019 07:23 PM, ? Good Guy ? wrote: In the latest documentary, the molecular biologist says that genes cause a difference on average between black people and white people in IQ tests. I see a great opportunity in this. If we exported you from England to, say, Cameroon, we'd raise the average IQ of both countries. Pithy and insightful. Kudos. |
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[OT]: DNA pioneer James Watson stripped of honours after 'reckless' race remarks
On Mon, 14 Jan 2019 07:44:02 +0000, Martin Edwards
wrote: On 1/13/2019 8:44 PM, Peter Jason wrote: On Sun, 13 Jan 2019 03:23:51 +0000, ? Good Guy ? wrote: In the latest documentary, the molecular biologist says that genes cause a difference on average between black people and white people in IQ tests. https://news.sky.com/story/dna-pioneer-james-watson-stripped-of-honours-after-reckless-race-remarks-11606108 Not the first man hanged for speaking up. Ever since the end of colonialism in the 1960s Africa has gone back to be the feotid steaming bog of old, with any of its wealth ending up in Swiss banks and overseas real estate. Apart from that how was your goat hunt? Rhodesia? |
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[OT]: DNA pioneer James Watson stripped of honours after'reckless' race remarks
On 15/01/2019 02:33, Jim H wrote:
"The Bell Curve" is the title of a book. Of course I know that. That is why I created the post in the first place to high-light how much the society has changed or NOT changed since the mass migration began. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bell-Curve-Intelligence-Structure-Paperbacks/dp/0684824299 It seems people are more politically correct these days than they were in the 80's and 90s. Read the reviews: Milton Friedman This brilliant, original, objective, and lucidly written book will force you to rethink your biases and prejudices about the role that individual difference in intelligence plays in our economy, our policy, and our society. Michael Novak /National Review/ Our intellectual landscape has been disrupted by the equivalent of an earthquake. David Brooks /The Wall Street Journal/ Has already kicked up more reaction than any social?science book this decade. Peter Brimelow /Forbes/ Long-awaited...massive, meticulous, minutely detailed, clear. Like Darwin's /Origin of Species/ -- the intellectual event with which it is being seriously compared -- /The Bell Curve/ offers a new synthesis of research...and a hypothesis of far-reaching explanatory power. Prof. Thomas J. Bouchard /Contemporary Psychology/ [The authors] have been cast as racists and elitists and /The Bell Curve/ has been dismissed as pseudoscience....The book's message cannot be dismissed so easily. Herrnstein and Murray have written one of the most provocative social science books published in many years....This is a superbly written and exceedingly well documented book. Christopher Caldwell /American Spectator The Bell Curve/ is a comprehensive treatment of its subject, never mean-spirited or gloating. It gives a fair hearing to those who dissent scientifically from its propositions -- in fact, it bends over backward to be fair....Among the dozens of hostile articles that have thus far appeared, none has successfully refuted any of its science. Prof. Eugene D. Genovese /National Review/ Richard Herrnstein and Charles Murray might not feel at home with Daniel Patrick Moynihan and Lani Guinier, but they should....They have all [made] brave attempts to force a national debate on urgent matters that will not go away. And they have met the same fate. Once again, academia and the mass media are straining every muscle to suppress debate. Chester E. Finn, Jr. /Commentary The Bell Curve's/ implications will be as profound for the beginning of the new century as Michael Harrington's discovery of "the other America" was for the final part of the old. Richard Herrnstein's bequest to us is a work of great value. Charles Murray's contribution goes on. Malcolme W. Browne /The New York Times Book Review/ Mr. Murray and Mr. Herrnstein write that "for the last 30 years, the concept of intelligence has been a pariah in the world of ideas," and that the time has come to rehabilitate rational discourse on the subject. It is hard to imagine a democratic society doing otherwise. Prof. Earl Hunt /American Scientist/ The first reactions to /The Bell Curve/ were expressions of public outrage. In the second round of reaction, some commentators suggested that Herrnstein and Murray were merely bringing up facts that were well known in the scientific community, but perhaps best not discussed in public. A Papua New Guinea language has a term for this, /Mokita./ It means "truth that we all know, but agree not to talk about." ...There are fascinating questions here for those interested in the interactions between sociology, economics, anthropology and cognitive science. We do not have the answers yet. We may need them soon, for policy makers who rely on /Mokita/ are flying blind. Academics need to be protected if we want to advance our knowledge. They should be allowed to say or write anything within the confines of academic research. At present they are fired; Even holocaust deniers should be allowed to espouse their theories and debated. i know this is not very popular to say but that is what we should aim as far as possible. If we don't then the Chinese will do so and then we would all be slaves of them. They will have advanced science and technology and we would all be struggling with Windows 10 updates!!. -- With over 950 million devices now running Windows 10, customer satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows. |
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[OT]: DNA pioneer James Watson stripped of honours after'reckless' race remarks
On 1/14/2019 4:04 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , Wolf K wrote: You can't infer individual characteristics from a bell curve, or _any_ averages. Yet that is what proponents of "average scores" want to do. Else why bother? The fact is that a bell curve means there are multiple factors affecting the thing you're measuring. You don't know what those factors are. not always. sometimes it's just one variable. What's more, it's devilishly difficult to figure out what those factors might be, and to discover the extent of their influence. What's more, you can be sure that any one factor's effect will depend on at least one other factor's effect. if it's more than one, that's true, but that's not always the case. In my teaching days one head wanted exam scores to come under a bell curve. When some of mine didn't a senior teacher told me to change them. No disrespect, he was only obeying orders. |
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[OT]: DNA pioneer James Watson stripped of honours after'reckless' race remarks
On 1/14/2019 8:39 PM, Peter Jason wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jan 2019 07:44:02 +0000, Martin Edwards wrote: On 1/13/2019 8:44 PM, Peter Jason wrote: On Sun, 13 Jan 2019 03:23:51 +0000, ? Good Guy ? wrote: In the latest documentary, the molecular biologist says that genes cause a difference on average between black people and white people in IQ tests. https://news.sky.com/story/dna-pioneer-james-watson-stripped-of-honours-after-reckless-race-remarks-11606108 Not the first man hanged for speaking up. Ever since the end of colonialism in the 1960s Africa has gone back to be the feotid steaming bog of old, with any of its wealth ending up in Swiss banks and overseas real estate. Apart from that how was your goat hunt? Rhodesia? See Ghana. It is now a democracy and has had governments of different ideological tendency. It was the first of ours to go free. These things take time. |
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[OT]: DNA pioneer James Watson stripped of honours after 'reckless' race remarks
On Mon, 14 Jan 2019 10:14:30 -0500, Wolf K
wrote: On 2019-01-13 21:42, Eric Stevens wrote: On Sun, 13 Jan 2019 21:13:31 +0000, ? Good Guy ? wrote: On 13/01/2019 20:44, Peter Jason wrote: Not the first man hanged for speaking up. Ever since the end of colonialism in the 1960s Africa has gone back to be the feotid steaming bog of old, with any of its wealth ending up in Swiss banks and overseas real estate. One thing I have noticed is that people talk about "unsupported by science" but when somebody publishes a paper about these things, they are fired or prosecuted or strip off everything they have achieved in their lifetime like in this case!!. How can you you have scientific evidence if the rules are against them and other scientists are not allowed to continue with the research!!. Mind you I am against anybody making any claims without proof Read 'The Bell Curve'. You can't infer individual characteristics from a bell curve, or _any_ averages. Yet that is what proponents of "average scores" want to do. Else why bother? Good Guy said " I am against anybody making any claims without proof". I merely gave him a reference to someone who had. Make what you like of it. The fact is that a bell curve means there are multiple factors affecting the thing you're measuring. You don't know what those factors are. What's more, it's devilishly difficult to figure out what those factors might be, and to discover the extent of their influence. What's more, you can be sure that any one factor's effect will depend on at least one other factor's effect. The difficulty is especially the case when you are measuring the end result of of some developmental process. Eg, consider height. Suppose you find that Italians on average are shorter than Swedes. Check the overlap of the two bell curves. If the averages are 1 SD or less apart, then the majority of each group will be within the same range of heights. You'll find more of one or the other only at the extremes (and even there, the differences will be small). The same goes for differences in any other measurable feature. There are studies that claim to quantify the effects of environment and genetics on human development. Problem is, the effect of genetics depends on the environment, and vice versa. Take height again: If you don't get enough food while growing up, you will not reach the genetically determined limit of your height. And that's a simple relationship. Most of our traits depend on the interactions of genes with the environment and other genes; and for many of these, there's a timetable. Sure, there are more tall black NBA players than white ones. But while height is very useful if you want to play basketball, it's not enough. That's why most tall people, of any race, do not become NBA players. That, and the fact that reaching the top in the NBA is not the ultimate ambition of many people. but I allow them to produce the proof which can be scrutinised by the academics and people with the relevant experience and knowledge. I am also against anybody silencing anybody who makes controversial statements. People should be allowed to say whatever they want as long as there a "right-of-reply" which is given equal prominence. Allow the converse: any quack or nutbar then has the right to "reply" to well-supported insights with his nonsense, and has the right to claim equal prominence. Yup, and that's why so many people these days believe and disbelieve whatever they want. Slow, careful analysis takes time and effort. It also takes a kind of humility: accepting that your gut feelings are wrong is difficult. Conversely, accepting that the result of a slow and careful analysis is wrong is probably even more difficult. Both methods of arriving at the truth suffer from the same two fatal flaws: a) the available evidence is always limited; and b) a single "inconvenient fact" is enough to destroy the inference. The best we can do is an approximation to the truth. (And the past century's work on the foundations of math/logic imply that not even axiomatic systems are exempt from this uncomfortable insight.) -- Regards, Eric Stevens |
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[OT]: DNA pioneer James Watson stripped of honours after 'reckless' race remarks
On Tue, 15 Jan 2019 07:46:16 +0000, Martin Edwards
wrote: On 1/14/2019 4:04 PM, nospam wrote: In article , Wolf K wrote: You can't infer individual characteristics from a bell curve, or _any_ averages. Yet that is what proponents of "average scores" want to do. Else why bother? The fact is that a bell curve means there are multiple factors affecting the thing you're measuring. You don't know what those factors are. not always. sometimes it's just one variable. What's more, it's devilishly difficult to figure out what those factors might be, and to discover the extent of their influence. What's more, you can be sure that any one factor's effect will depend on at least one other factor's effect. if it's more than one, that's true, but that's not always the case. In my teaching days one head wanted exam scores to come under a bell curve. When some of mine didn't a senior teacher told me to change them. No disrespect, he was only obeying orders. Heil! -- Regards, Eric Stevens |
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