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#16
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OT; old CDs and DVDs
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#18
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OT; old CDs and DVDs
In article ,
says... On Mon, 14 May 2018 17:41:31 -0300, pjp wrote: In article , says... On Sun, 13 May 2018 02:31:44 -0300, pjp wrote: Well I for one am counting on cd's and dvd's to last a very long time if properly stored. I have literally thousands of them as I make backup copies of pretty much everything passes thru my hands. I also have a very very large library of music and videos all backed up onto optical disk that are backups basicly to the two copies I keep of most of it on portable/external separate hard disks (movies also get burned as standard playable dvd). The optical disks are kept stored in cases in a cabinet except for the most common ones used a lot, e.g. Windows install/backup disks etc. I validate every disk when burned and I have yet to have one I can't read ... yet. I exclusively use writable disks for backup. I find re-writables can't be trusted and I use them only for my hardware dvd recorder for "taping' tv. If I want to keep that I rip it using the pc. +1 on everything you wrote, except that I no longer use CDs, DVDs are cheaper. I go by brand names, like HP, Philips and Sony and very, very rarely get a coaster. []' Yes I also use almost ezclusively use dvd's now. I notice when you see them cd's are now more expensive than dvd's and even dvd's are getting less common to find with restricted choices. I suspect soon I'll end up buying 5-10 stacks of 100 just to insure I have them. Real drag I can't find any more Lightscribe cd's or DVD's anymore. I believe they stopped making them argh!@# https://www.amazon.com/lightscribe-d...scribe%20discs Prices are rediculous. They used to be like 10% pricier over normal disks is all. |
#19
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OT; old CDs and DVDs
In message , pjp
writes: In article , says... On Mon, 14 May 2018 17:41:31 -0300, pjp wrote: In article , says... [] +1 on everything you wrote, except that I no longer use CDs, DVDs are cheaper. I go by brand names, like HP, Philips and Sony and very, very rarely get a coaster. []' I still use CDs - partly because I have a stack of what was 100 I'm still working through (at probably less than 1 a year!), and partly because I feel - though have no supporting evidence - that they're going to be a little more reliable, being lower density. Yes I also use almost ezclusively use dvd's now. I notice when you see them cd's are now more expensive than dvd's and even dvd's are getting less common to find with restricted choices. I suspect soon I'll end up Both are certainly getting rarer. buying 5-10 stacks of 100 just to insure I have them. Real drag I can't find any more Lightscribe cd's or DVD's anymore. I believe they stopped making them argh!@# https://www.amazon.com/lightscribe-d...aps%2Ck%3Aligh tscribe%20discs Prices are rediculous. They used to be like 10% pricier over normal disks is all. Yes, those are all 2 to 3 dollars _per blank_ - and a fair proportion (of the first page, anyway - I didn't look further) are marked as "manufacturer no longer making" or similar. Although I made sure it had lightscribe ability when I bought the (external) drive, I've never actually had any such discs. I wonder: do you think there might be some possibility of a spray-on coating that could be used for this purpose? (Obviously, it would only be practical with discs that don't have printed manufacturer details - although, thinking about it, if it was an opaque coating, it might be OK.) Maybe a two-part process, the second coating being a "fixer" layer that prevented degradation (blocked UV or whatever colour the coating was susceptible to)? I give these ideas freely. [Though it'd be nice if they ended up being called G6JPG coating (-:] -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf The web is a blank slate; you can't design technology that is 'good'. You can't design paper that you can only write good things on. There are no good or evil tools. You can put an engine in an ambulance or a tank. - Sir Tim Berners-Lee, Radio Times 2009-Jan-30 to -Feb-5. |
#20
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OT; old CDs and DVDs
In message , Wolf K
writes: On 2018-05-14 22:04, pjp wrote: In article , says... On Mon, 14 May 2018 17:41:31 -0300, pjp wrote: [] buying 5-10 stacks of 100 just to insure I have them. Real drag I can't find any more Lightscribe cd's or DVD's anymore. I believe they stopped making them argh!@# https://www.amazon.com/lightscribe-d...Aaps%2Ck%3Alig htscribe%20discs Prices are rediculous. They used to be like 10% pricier over normal disks is all. Prices in part are based on market size. Lightscribe is a niche market. Smaller market == larger cost per unit made, is all. It never caught on because you have to have a specialised CD/DVD writer. Yes, but there came a point where the majority of drives _did_ have the capability. (I don't know if it has reverted now. Certainly the above link included a couple of drives on the first page.) I suspect nowadays the problem would be finding the relevant label design/drive driver softwares, to run on current OSs (of course, the drives tended not to come with any CD), though I haven't actually looked. -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf the plural of 'anecdote' is not 'evidence'. Professor Edzart Ernst, prudential magazine, AUTUMN 2006, p. 13. |
#21
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OT; old CDs and DVDs
On 05/15/2018 09:26 AM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Wolf K writes: On 2018-05-14 22:04, pjp wrote: In article , says... On Mon, 14 May 2018 17:41:31 -0300, pjp wrote: [] buying 5-10 stacks of 100 just to insure I have them. Real drag I can't find any more Lightscribe cd's or DVD's anymore. I believe they stopped making them argh!@# https://www.amazon.com/lightscribe-d...Aaps%2Ck%3Alig htscribe%20discs Â*Prices are rediculous. They used to be like 10% pricier over normal disks is all. Prices in part are based on market size. Lightscribe is a niche market. Smaller market == larger cost per unit made, is all. It never caught on because you have to have a specialised CD/DVD writer. Yes, but there came a point where the majority of drives _did_ have the capability. (I don't know if it has reverted now. Certainly the above link included a couple of drives on the first page.) I suspect nowadays the problem would be finding the relevant label design/drive driver softwares, to run on current OSs (of course, the drives tended not to come with any CD), though I haven't actually looked. I'm kinda glad I went to printable CDs DVDs. It becomes a function of the printer and not the drive and my Canon does it great. |
#22
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OT; old CDs and DVDs
On Tue, 15 May 2018 13:34:34 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote: I wonder: do you think there might be some possibility of a spray-on coating that could be used for this purpose? (Obviously, it would only be practical with discs that don't have printed manufacturer details - although, thinking about it, if it was an opaque coating, it might be OK.) Maybe a two-part process, the second coating being a "fixer" layer that prevented degradation (blocked UV or whatever colour the coating was susceptible to)? I give these ideas freely. [Though it'd be nice if they ended up being called G6JPG coating (-:] John, you already have a file extension that uses your initials, jpg, and now you want a coating, too? Sheesh. Spread it around a little. ;-) -- Char Jackson |
#23
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OT; old CDs and DVDs
In message , Char Jackson
writes: On Tue, 15 May 2018 13:34:34 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote: (LightScribe) I wonder: do you think there might be some possibility of a spray-on coating that could be used for this purpose? (Obviously, it would only be practical with discs that don't have printed manufacturer details - although, thinking about it, if it was an opaque coating, it might be OK.) Maybe a two-part process, the second coating being a "fixer" layer that prevented degradation (blocked UV or whatever colour the coating was susceptible to)? I give these ideas freely. [Though it'd be nice if they ended up being called G6JPG coating (-:] John, you already have a file extension that uses your initials, jpg, and now you want a coating, too? Sheesh. Spread it around a little. ;-) (-: (I had the initials before the Joint Picture [Experts] Group was a twinkle in anybody's eye!) -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf aibohphobia, n., The fear of palindromes. |
#24
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OT; old CDs and DVDs
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
Maybe a two-part process, the second coating being a "fixer" layer that prevented degradation (blocked UV or whatever colour the coating was susceptible to)? I give these ideas freely. [Though it'd be nice if they ended up being called G6JPG coating (-:] Wouldn't it be better to apply this coating to your windows ? That will stop the UV. Or put your DVDs in a cake tin :-) Some of the optical media, is actually chemically unstable, due to poor practices at the factory. And all your attention to detail would not save the recordings on it. ******* To give an example of how manufacturers screw up, some company made "pink LEDs". Only trouble was, on the prototypes (available in small quantities), the chemical that makes the pink light, was unstable, and would "bleach out" after only 24 hours of runtime. You would think they would have noticed this during testing. Paul |
#25
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OT; old CDs and DVDs
Wolf K wrote:
On 2018-05-14 22:04, pjp wrote: In article , says... On Mon, 14 May 2018 17:41:31 -0300, pjp wrote: In article , says... On Sun, 13 May 2018 02:31:44 -0300, pjp wrote: Well I for one am counting on cd's and dvd's to last a very long time if properly stored. I have literally thousands of them as I make backup copies of pretty much everything passes thru my hands. I also have a very very large library of music and videos all backed up onto optical disk that are backups basicly to the two copies I keep of most of it on portable/external separate hard disks (movies also get burned as standard playable dvd). The optical disks are kept stored in cases in a cabinet except for the most common ones used a lot, e.g. Windows install/backup disks etc. I validate every disk when burned and I have yet to have one I can't read ... yet. I exclusively use writable disks for backup. I find re-writables can't be trusted and I use them only for my hardware dvd recorder for "taping' tv. If I want to keep that I rip it using the pc. +1 on everything you wrote, except that I no longer use CDs, DVDs are cheaper. I go by brand names, like HP, Philips and Sony and very, very rarely get a coaster. []' Yes I also use almost ezclusively use dvd's now. I notice when you see them cd's are now more expensive than dvd's and even dvd's are getting less common to find with restricted choices. I suspect soon I'll end up buying 5-10 stacks of 100 just to insure I have them. Real drag I can't find any more Lightscribe cd's or DVD's anymore. I believe they stopped making them argh!@# https://www.amazon.com/lightscribe-d...scribe%20discs Prices are rediculous. They used to be like 10% pricier over normal disks is all. Prices in part are based on market size. Lightscribe is a niche market. Smaller market == larger cost per unit made, is all. It never caught on because you have to have a specialised CD/DVD writer. It's worse than that. The "owner" of LightScribe has exited the market. It's probably used under license, and who knows what licenses are still valid. It's a supply problem, brought on by "legal details". HP should hold some key patents on LightScribe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightscribe http://www8.hp.com/us/en/hp-news/pre...html?id=171639 "HP already has several formal IP licensing efforts underway. They include: * LightScribe, a technology that uses standard optical drives to print labels on CDs and DVDs; * DVD+RW, a format for writeable DVDs; " In business, "caught on" hardly matters. It's the per-unit cost that determine the life or death of ideas. If adding LightScribe required paying a $0.01 royalty, the technology would disappear over night. Companies aren't even willing to "do the math" and figure out the value proposition, they are that adverse to licensing fees. This is why DisplayPort was invented, because nobody wanted to pay for HDMI. This is why Firewire disappeared, because there was a licensing fee, whereas I don't think USB has a fee (to the best of my knowledge). To give an example, my company held patents, and one (unnamed) company refused to pay around $2 million owing. We had to chase them through the courts. The only problem with the idea was, there could have been half a billion dollars worth of business blocked by this "legal snit", and a project I was working on was canceled, because the company in question was the sole source of the key parts for what I was building. People will go to extra-ordinary nonsensical lengths, to avoid paying a royalty... to anyone. "All this legal stuff sucks... he said" Paul |
#26
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OT; old CDs and DVDs
In message , Paul
writes: J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: Maybe a two-part process, the second coating being a "fixer" layer that prevented degradation (blocked UV or whatever colour the coating was susceptible to)? I give these ideas freely. [Though it'd be nice if they ended up being called G6JPG coating (-:] Wouldn't it be better to apply this coating to your windows ? That will stop the UV. Or put your DVDs in a cake tin :-) Some of the optical media, is actually chemically unstable, due to poor practices at the factory. And all your attention to detail would not save the recordings on it. I was only suggesting it for the legend side, not the data side - as an alternative to lightscribe. ******* To give an example of how manufacturers screw up, some company made "pink LEDs". Only trouble was, on the prototypes (available in small quantities), the chemical that makes the pink light, was unstable, and would "bleach out" after only 24 hours of runtime. You would think they would have noticed this during testing. Paul -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf I use science as my model here. We will crawl toward the truth without ever knowing if we are all the way there. - Scott Adams, 2015-3-20 |
#27
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OT; old CDs and DVDs
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Paul writes: J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: Maybe a two-part process, the second coating being a "fixer" layer that prevented degradation (blocked UV or whatever colour the coating was susceptible to)? I give these ideas freely. [Though it'd be nice if they ended up being called G6JPG coating (-:] Wouldn't it be better to apply this coating to your windows ? That will stop the UV. Or put your DVDs in a cake tin :-) Some of the optical media, is actually chemically unstable, due to poor practices at the factory. And all your attention to detail would not save the recordings on it. I was only suggesting it for the legend side, not the data side - as an alternative to lightscribe. They used to make optical media with the printable label area on it, for use with inkjets. The inkjets that had a provision for writing on optical media. But try and find an inkjet today that writes those. That's what we had before LightScribe, and the people who had the proper printer, seemed to like that scheme. It wouldn't upset the balance of the media, like a paper label would. The problem with LightScribe, was it took as long to burn the label, as to burn the data bits. A "single pass" wasn't dark enough, so the burn process had to be repeated multiple times until the desired shade was achieved. Paul |
#28
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OT; old CDs and DVDs
Paul news
May 2018 18:20:39 GMT in alt.windows7.general, wrote:
Ed Cryer wrote: I've been sorting out a box of old discs from twenty years ago, Windows 95 days. There were about a hundred in two CD wallets, stored in a back bedroom, unheated in winter. Ten of them I kept, and I've been examining these on this Win7 computer. Everything I've tried is readable, utterly readable and executable; and that includes CD-Rs and DVD-Rs burnt elsewhere. ¡Viva Win7! ¡Y vivant discos viejos! Ed Some of the older re-writeable discs weren't that stable. I had one Memorex CDRW disc that went "transparent" in about three months. Of course Memorex doesn't make the media, and just bought lots of blanks from the lowest bidder. Verbatim on the other hand, seemed to test what they were selling, and the media tags would indicate quality sources for the discs. Quality sources might be Taiyo Yuden or Ritek. Verbatim and Ritek i've been a happy user of for years. Verbatim for much much longer... As in, 5.25 floppy days, on a non PC compatible. I wouldn't say that I'm brand loyal so much as I'm confident in the product itself. I've still got floppies that were last written to when I was a kid! And, the data (as of the last time I checked) was still intact. Completely useless mind you, but, all still there. There used to be two forums that did nothing but discuss optical discs and burning, and you could get good info there on which medias were good and bad, as they'd do error scans to see which is which. I think I know the two forums you're referencing...Those were also the days when making coasters got expensive fast; the media wasn't cheaply priced. And, back then, most of the created storage media just wasn't all that good quality wise. Which led to coasters and premature loss of data down the road in some cases when they did succesfully burn. if I'm not mistaken, they also discussed the physical quality of the media in so far as slight scratch resistance. ******* The write-once stuff should be more stable. There's no reason a -R won't work. It has a lot to do with chemistry. Aye. -- To prevent yourself from being a victim of cyber stalking, it's highly recommended you visit he https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php ================================================== = An Emergency Call Centre worker has been fired in Toronto much to the dismay of her colleagues, who were unhappy with her dismissal. It seems that a caller dialled 911 from a cell phone stating, "I'm depressed and lying on a railway line so that when the train comes I can finally meet Allah." To which the call centre employee replied, "Remain calm and stay on the line." |
#29
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OT; old CDs and DVDs
Ed Cryer news
Fri, 11 May 2018 19:49:28 GMT in alt.windows7.general, wrote:
[snip] Have you ever seen "Logan's Run"? I was impressed by the spinning storage discs, and it made me think about ancient papyrus, vellum, paper. Medieval monks had a bad habit of reusing classical manuscripts, after scraping them. Modern technology is finding all kinds of things behind psalters and prayer-books. Boccaccio and Petrarch wrote about well-worn paths between monastery libraries and the scriptoria. Umberto Eco's "The Name of The Rose" revolves around something similar. Euripides wrote 95 plays, and 18 survive; while many famous Greek and Roman writers survive by one manuscript alone, often dug up in some place where there was an earthquake or eruption. Still, I guess that paper has greater longevity than laser-burnt discs. Even if the laser-burnt disc had the same or better longevity than various kinds of paper?, who's to say, a few thousand years (or even a few hundred years from now) anyone would have the necessary equipment in working condition that could actually do something useful with the disc made centuries before? Atleast with the present discoveries from long ago, it's text or something else somebody today can read and understand. It doesn't require hardware and software from the age of that writing or knowledge of such to do it. -- To prevent yourself from being a victim of cyber stalking, it's highly recommended you visit he https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php ================================================== = An Emergency Call Centre worker has been fired in Toronto much to the dismay of her colleagues, who were unhappy with her dismissal. It seems that a caller dialled 911 from a cell phone stating, "I'm depressed and lying on a railway line so that when the train comes I can finally meet Allah." To which the call centre employee replied, "Remain calm and stay on the line." |
#30
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OT; old CDs and DVDs
"J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Tue, 15 May 2018 12:34:34 GMT in alt.windows7.general, wrote: Although I made sure it had lightscribe ability when I bought the (external) drive, I've never actually had any such discs. Hmm. All of my burners are lightscribe capable. I've used the feature one time with one of them...While it was cool enough I suppose, the time and funny smell from doing it wasn't worth it in the long run to me. I'll just stick to a sharpie. -- To prevent yourself from being a victim of cyber stalking, it's highly recommended you visit he https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php ================================================== = An Emergency Call Centre worker has been fired in Toronto much to the dismay of her colleagues, who were unhappy with her dismissal. It seems that a caller dialled 911 from a cell phone stating, "I'm depressed and lying on a railway line so that when the train comes I can finally meet Allah." To which the call centre employee replied, "Remain calm and stay on the line." |
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