Church

On Thu, 10 May 2018 20:27:47 -0700, togyukjb
wrote:

Char Jackson wrote:
togyukjb wrote:

I said my ISP, like Gmail, sees my email traffic.

Your ISP sees your traffic and knows its source and
destination, but if it's encrypted they don't see the
payload.

Since my Gmail is mostly unencrypted my ISP does see my
email traffic.

Are you sure? I didn't think GMail supported unencrypted connections to
its servers.

https://productforums.google.com/for...il/DE5mVMSh1vk
The settings for any Gmail or Google Apps account are these:

Incoming Mail (IMAP) Server - Requires SSL
imap.gmail.com
Port: 993
Requires SSL:Yes

Incoming Mail (POP3) Server - requires SSL:
pop.gmail.com
Use SSL: Yes
Port: 995

Outgoing Mail (SMTP) Server - Requires TLS or SSL
smtp.gmail.com
Port: 465 or 587
Requires SSL: Yes
Requires authentication: Yes
Use same settings as incoming mail server

I don't see any options to use unencrypted connections, but I suppose
there could be some legacy options that they don't want people to use.
I'm not talking about encrypting the email, but rather encrypting the
connection.

You're mixing DNS traffic in with application traffic.

Not me. Changing DNS servers came late to the discussion and had
nothing to do with my ISP seeing my email traffic.

Your ISP can't see your GMail traffic.

Changing DNS servers came into the discussion as a result of your
observation that your ISP offers helpful suggestions instead of simply
allowing bad URLs to time out and display a HTTP status of 404. Mayayana
and I simply pointed out that you can fix that crappy behavior of your
ISP by using a different DNS server, one that doesn't do that, to which
you replied "Wouldn't work". That was wrong, of course, because it
obviously works.

DNS servers don't see any of your application traffic.

Never said they did.

Actually, you jumbled both things together in the same paragraph.
"Wouldn't work. My ISP (like yours) always reads everything I send
through it. But even if I could cancel the ISP's suggestion service
they would still see everything I send."

It sounded like (sounds like) you were confused.

On 5/11/2018 9:26 AM, Char Jackson wrote:
togyukjb wrote:

Since my Gmail is mostly unencrypted my ISP does see my
email traffic.

Are you sure? I didn't think GMail supported unencrypted connections to
its servers.

My AccountSign-in & securityConnected Apps and SitesAllow Less Secure
Apps

It sounded like (sounds like) you were confused.

Insult noted. You have the last word.

sgeoujdh wrote:
On 5/11/2018 9:26 AM, Char Jackson wrote:
togyukjb wrote:

Since my Gmail is mostly unencrypted my ISP does see my
email traffic.

Are you sure? I didn't think GMail supported unencrypted connections to
its servers.

My AccountSign-in & securityConnected Apps and SitesAllow Less Secure
Apps

AFAIK, that's not correct or at least not fully correct. I have set
'Allow Less Secure Apps', but I *do* use SSL/TLS (on port 995) for my
Gmail accounts.

AFAIK, the 'Allow Less Secure Apps' setting is often needed, because
silly Google expects us to use a *web* login protocol (OAuth2) for
*email* connections [1].

It sounded like (sounds like) you were confused.

Insult noted. You have the last word.

Well, it seems you *are* confused about your nym! :-(

[1] This Thunderbird/mozillaZine article describes some of the details:
http://kb.mozillazine.org/Using_Gmail_with_Thunderbird_and_Mozilla_Suite

On 12 May 2018 17:48:45 GMT, Frank Slootweg
wrote:

sgeoujdh wrote:
On 5/11/2018 9:26 AM, Char Jackson wrote:
togyukjb wrote:

Since my Gmail is mostly unencrypted my ISP does see my
email traffic.

Are you sure? I didn't think GMail supported unencrypted connections to
its servers.

My AccountSign-in & securityConnected Apps and SitesAllow Less Secure
Apps

AFAIK, that's not correct or at least not fully correct. I have set
'Allow Less Secure Apps', but I *do* use SSL/TLS (on port 995) for my
Gmail accounts.

AFAIK, the 'Allow Less Secure Apps' setting is often needed, because
silly Google expects us to use a *web* login protocol (OAuth2) for
*email* connections [1].

Yeah, that setting doesn't do what he thinks it does. He's very
confused, not just about this, but about DNS servers, as well.

It sounded like (sounds like) you were confused.

Insult noted. You have the last word.

Well, it seems you *are* confused about your nym! :-(

[1] This Thunderbird/mozillaZine article describes some of the details:
http://kb.mozillazine.org/Using_Gmail_with_Thunderbird_and_Mozilla_Suite

Frank Slootweg wrote:

Well, it seems you *are* confused about your nym!

Don't like my nym? OK I'll change it. How's this?