A Windows XP help forum. PCbanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » PCbanter forum » Windows 10 » Windows 10 Help Forum
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?



 
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old October 16th 18, 12:53 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 269
Default Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?

When you close a program or game, provided you're not saving a file, why doesn't it happen immediately? What on earth has it to do?
  #2  
Old October 16th 18, 01:47 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Ant[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 554
Default Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
When you close a program or game, provided you're not saving a file, why doesn't it happen immediately? What on earth has it to do?


Probably using a lot of resources like memories, storage, etc.
--
Quote of the Week: "PLEASE tell your aardvark that I'm NOT an anthill!" --unknown
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org / http://antfarm.ma.cx
/ /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail privately. If credit-
| |o o| | ing, then please kindly use Ant nickname and URL/link.
\ _ /
( )
  #3  
Old October 16th 18, 02:54 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?

Ant wrote:
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
When you close a program or game, provided you're not saving a file, why doesn't it happen immediately? What on earth has it to do?


Probably using a lot of resources like memories, storage, etc.


On WinXP, it could take 30 seconds to a minute, to unwind
the page file.

I wouldn't expect Vista+ to be that bad.

*******

You could try running Sysinternals Procmon, start a trace,
then stop the program in question, and see what events
show up. Stop the trace, scroll back, and analyze.

You never know what you might discover.

Paul
  #4  
Old October 16th 18, 02:38 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 269
Default Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?

On Tue, 16 Oct 2018 02:54:11 +0100, Paul wrote:

Ant wrote:
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
When you close a program or game, provided you're not saving a file, why doesn't it happen immediately? What on earth has it to do?


Probably using a lot of resources like memories, storage, etc.


On WinXP, it could take 30 seconds to a minute, to unwind
the page file.

I wouldn't expect Vista+ to be that bad.


I was using a computer with a small amount of RAM.

*******

You could try running Sysinternals Procmon, start a trace,
then stop the program in question, and see what events
show up. Stop the trace, scroll back, and analyze.

You never know what you might discover.


**** programming I would guess.
  #5  
Old October 16th 18, 02:38 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 269
Default Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?

On Tue, 16 Oct 2018 01:47:33 +0100, Ant wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
When you close a program or game, provided you're not saving a file, why doesn't it happen immediately? What on earth has it to do?


Probably using a lot of resources like memories, storage, etc.


But stopping using those should be instant. Just mark them as empty.
  #6  
Old October 16th 18, 04:26 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Tue, 16 Oct 2018 01:47:33 +0100, Ant wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
When you close a program or game, provided you're not saving a file,
why doesn't it happen immediately? What on earth has it to do?


Probably using a lot of resources like memories, storage, etc.


But stopping using those should be instant. Just mark them as empty.


It's not the resources that matter.

It's how the resources are managed, and what side
effects the management of the resources have, that
causes the delayed response.

I don't think Windows 10 is anywhere near as bad as
WinXP for that. But on the other hand, Windows 10 isn't
good from an architecture perspective, and when testing
edge cases, there's a good chance you'll break something.
Previous OSes seemed to handle resource exhaustion
more elegantly than Windows 10 does. In a typical
Windows 10 meltdown, the Task Manager can't be started
or made to stop the problem, then the system locks up,
black screens, or plays fiddle music using tiny violins.

You have to be *really awake* to spot resource exhaustion
in time. For example, if Storage Spaces is running,
and warns you that C: is running out of disk, you
might only have a matter of *seconds* to do something
about it. Don't go out in the kitchen and make
another cup of coffee, if you get a low space warning.
You need your ninja control-alt-delete response instead.

Paul
  #7  
Old October 16th 18, 04:36 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 269
Default Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?

On Tue, 16 Oct 2018 16:26:19 +0100, Paul wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Tue, 16 Oct 2018 01:47:33 +0100, Ant wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
When you close a program or game, provided you're not saving a file,
why doesn't it happen immediately? What on earth has it to do?

Probably using a lot of resources like memories, storage, etc.


But stopping using those should be instant. Just mark them as empty.


It's not the resources that matter.

It's how the resources are managed, and what side
effects the management of the resources have, that
causes the delayed response.


But I can ALT-TAB between the game and another application instantly.

I don't think Windows 10 is anywhere near as bad as
WinXP for that. But on the other hand, Windows 10 isn't
good from an architecture perspective, and when testing
edge cases, there's a good chance you'll break something.
Previous OSes seemed to handle resource exhaustion
more elegantly than Windows 10 does. In a typical
Windows 10 meltdown, the Task Manager can't be started
or made to stop the problem, then the system locks up,
black screens, or plays fiddle music using tiny violins.

You have to be *really awake* to spot resource exhaustion
in time. For example, if Storage Spaces is running,
and warns you that C: is running out of disk, you
might only have a matter of *seconds* to do something
about it. Don't go out in the kitchen and make
another cup of coffee, if you get a low space warning.
You need your ninja control-alt-delete response instead.


Odd, as I've found successive Windows versions are BETTER at handling problems, including running low on resources.
  #8  
Old October 17th 18, 03:49 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Carlos E.R.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,356
Default Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?

On 16/10/2018 15.38, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Tue, 16 Oct 2018 01:47:33 +0100, Ant wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
When you close a program or game, provided you're not saving a file,
why doesn't it happen immediately?* What on earth has it to do?


Probably using a lot of resources like memories, storage, etc.


But stopping using those should be instant.* Just mark them as empty.


Maybe it has to go through a long list and marking each one as free or
whatever, in the correct order. Or worse, it has to load each resource
from disk for some reason before clearing it. Maybe it fills them with
zeroes before releasing them.

Maybe it has to do something online, like log off, if it is one of those
games.

Maybe it checks for some thing, or writes some data to some file.
Status, scores... maybe it has to calculate those first.

Maybe it was running some thread in background doing something, like
calculating an strategy, or indexing, and it has to finish it first
(wait for the task to reach an exit or control point).

Thousand reasons you need to look at the code to know which :-)

--
Cheers, Carlos.
  #9  
Old October 17th 18, 05:28 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?

Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 16/10/2018 15.38, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Tue, 16 Oct 2018 01:47:33 +0100, Ant wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
When you close a program or game, provided you're not saving a file,
why doesn't it happen immediately? What on earth has it to do?
Probably using a lot of resources like memories, storage, etc.

But stopping using those should be instant. Just mark them as empty.


Maybe it has to go through a long list and marking each one as free or
whatever, in the correct order. Or worse, it has to load each resource
from disk for some reason before clearing it. Maybe it fills them with
zeroes before releasing them.

Maybe it has to do something online, like log off, if it is one of those
games.

Maybe it checks for some thing, or writes some data to some file.
Status, scores... maybe it has to calculate those first.

Maybe it was running some thread in background doing something, like
calculating an strategy, or indexing, and it has to finish it first
(wait for the task to reach an exit or control point).

Thousand reasons you need to look at the code to know which :-)


You can run a trace.

ETW captures a lot of stuff. Registry access.
File I/O. All programs and services are visible
(at the SVCHOST level).

No need for source code for a quick check.

And multiple ETW sinks can be running at the same time,
because while you're running ProcMon, there are system
processes recording specific ETW traffic as well. At least
one logging system does it that way (doesn't capture a
conventional log - captures ETW instead, and converts
it on demand). I'm not a particular fan of them
doing that, because most of the time that feature
is broken (the log is then garbage).

But the ETW feature is a good idea. You can do boot traces
with it. You can do runtime tracing as well (what's needed
in this case).

ProcMon can do both a shutdown trace and a boot trace
in the same run. The shutdown is stored in a closed file
when the OS shuts down (you leave a trace running and the
program saves the results for you). The startup trace is collected
continuously (you can wait a couple minutes after boot
before opening Procmon.exe and the trace will be waiting
for you to save). And between the two saved files, you'll
have a picture of a shutdown and a startup sequence.

On the minus side, it leaves a lot to be desired, but on
the plus side, it's easy to use.

If you wrote a program like this:

1: GOTO 1

then that doesn't generate any ETW. Looking at a trace
later, you'd have no clue what the program was doing. And
I've had things that looked like that happen. I have a slow
Win10 boot here, and one of the trace sections has 20 seconds
of... no ETW events, and one core railed :-) And then we have
to guess at what that could be.

Paul
  #10  
Old October 17th 18, 12:37 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Keith Nuttle
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,844
Default Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?

On 10/16/2018 10:49 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 16/10/2018 15.38, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Tue, 16 Oct 2018 01:47:33 +0100, Ant wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
When you close a program or game, provided you're not saving a file,
why doesn't it happen immediately?* What on earth has it to do?

Probably using a lot of resources like memories, storage, etc.


But stopping using those should be instant.* Just mark them as empty.


Maybe it has to go through a long list and marking each one as free or
whatever, in the correct order. Or worse, it has to load each resource
from disk for some reason before clearing it. Maybe it fills them with
zeroes before releasing them.

Maybe it has to do something online, like log off, if it is one of those
games.

Maybe it checks for some thing, or writes some data to some file.
Status, scores... maybe it has to calculate those first.

Maybe it was running some thread in background doing something, like
calculating an strategy, or indexing, and it has to finish it first
(wait for the task to reach an exit or control point).

Thousand reasons you need to look at the c'ode to know which :-)

When you close a program, and then using file explorer, go to the both
the program folder and the its data folder in the folder Users. Then
sort the folder by the date and see which files have been written to the
disk when the program closes. The time should be the time you closed
the program.

With both Firefox and Thunderbird, there are about a dozen files that
get written to disk when the program closes. I suspect these files
contain any thing you changed while using the program. tool bar setting,
etc.; things that changed as the program runs, file history, etc.




--
2018: The year we learn to play the great game of Euchre
  #11  
Old October 17th 18, 04:38 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 269
Default Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?

On Wed, 17 Oct 2018 03:49:37 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 16/10/2018 15.38, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Tue, 16 Oct 2018 01:47:33 +0100, Ant wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
When you close a program or game, provided you're not saving a file,
why doesn't it happen immediately? What on earth has it to do?

Probably using a lot of resources like memories, storage, etc.


But stopping using those should be instant. Just mark them as empty.


Maybe it has to go through a long list and marking each one as free or
whatever, in the correct order. Or worse, it has to load each resource
from disk for some reason before clearing it. Maybe it fills them with
zeroes before releasing them.


I can't see the need for that, it should just say to Windows "this area of memory is now available for use" then close.

Maybe it has to do something online, like log off, if it is one of those
games.


No, that's disabled.

Maybe it checks for some thing, or writes some data to some file.
Status, scores... maybe it has to calculate those first.


No, this still happens if I save the game first, then when exiting I say "don't save".

Maybe it was running some thread in background doing something, like
calculating an strategy, or indexing, and it has to finish it first
(wait for the task to reach an exit or control point).

Thousand reasons you need to look at the code to know which :-)

  #12  
Old October 18th 18, 11:07 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Carlos E.R.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,356
Default Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?

On 17/10/2018 17.38, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Wed, 17 Oct 2018 03:49:37 +0100, Carlos E.R.
wrote:

On 16/10/2018 15.38, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Tue, 16 Oct 2018 01:47:33 +0100, Ant wrote:

Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
When you close a program or game, provided you're not saving a file,
why doesn't it happen immediately?* What on earth has it to do?

Probably using a lot of resources like memories, storage, etc.

But stopping using those should be instant.* Just mark them as empty.


Maybe it has to go through a long list and marking each one as free or
whatever, in the correct order. Or worse, it has to load each resource
from disk for some reason before clearing it. Maybe it fills them with
zeroes before releasing them.


I can't see the need for that, it should just say to Windows "this area
of memory is now available for use" then close.


You don't, but they do :-P

If it is a hundred areas, they have to loop through all of them.


Maybe it has to do something online, like log off, if it is one of those
games.


No, that's disabled.


Maybe they don't care :-p


Maybe it checks for some thing, or writes some data to some file.
Status, scores... maybe it has to calculate those first.


No, this still happens if I save the game first, then when exiting I say
"don't save".


It still can do it.

--
Cheers, Carlos.
  #13  
Old October 16th 18, 03:00 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Mayayana
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,438
Default Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?

"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote

| When you close a program or game, provided you're not saving a file, why
doesn't it happen immediately? What on earth has it to do?
|

I don't have any programs that lag in closing.
But I don't have any games. I suppose they might
have to save a lot of settings in case you want
to continue where you left off.


  #14  
Old October 16th 18, 02:39 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 269
Default Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?

On Tue, 16 Oct 2018 03:00:58 +0100, Mayayana wrote:

"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote

| When you close a program or game, provided you're not saving a file, why
doesn't it happen immediately? What on earth has it to do?
|

I don't have any programs that lag in closing.
But I don't have any games. I suppose they might
have to save a lot of settings in case you want
to continue where you left off.


That would make sense, but I'd already saved the game and was asked if I wanted to when I clicked exit.
  #15  
Old October 16th 18, 02:56 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Mr. Man-wai Chang
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,941
Default Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?

On 10/16/2018 7:53 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
When you close a program or game, provided you're not saving a file, why doesn't it happen immediately? What on earth has it to do?


You will have to read their source codes to find out.... they gotta have
been waiting for something!

--
@~@ Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch! Live long and prosper!!
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty!
/( _ )\ May the Force and farces be with you!
^ ^ (x86_64 Ubuntu 9.10) Linux 2.6.39.3
不借貸! 不詐騙! 不*錢! 不援交! 不打交! 不打劫! 不自殺! 不求神! 請考慮綜援
(CSSA):
http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_...sub_addressesa
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off






All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:11 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2024 PCbanter.
The comments are property of their posters.