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#1
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Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?
When you close a program or game, provided you're not saving a file, why doesn't it happen immediately? What on earth has it to do?
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#2
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Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
When you close a program or game, provided you're not saving a file, why doesn't it happen immediately? What on earth has it to do? Probably using a lot of resources like memories, storage, etc. -- Quote of the Week: "PLEASE tell your aardvark that I'm NOT an anthill!" --unknown Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly. /\___/\Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org / http://antfarm.ma.cx / /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail privately. If credit- | |o o| | ing, then please kindly use Ant nickname and URL/link. \ _ / ( ) |
#3
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Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?
Ant wrote:
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: When you close a program or game, provided you're not saving a file, why doesn't it happen immediately? What on earth has it to do? Probably using a lot of resources like memories, storage, etc. On WinXP, it could take 30 seconds to a minute, to unwind the page file. I wouldn't expect Vista+ to be that bad. ******* You could try running Sysinternals Procmon, start a trace, then stop the program in question, and see what events show up. Stop the trace, scroll back, and analyze. You never know what you might discover. Paul |
#4
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Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?
On Tue, 16 Oct 2018 02:54:11 +0100, Paul wrote:
Ant wrote: Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: When you close a program or game, provided you're not saving a file, why doesn't it happen immediately? What on earth has it to do? Probably using a lot of resources like memories, storage, etc. On WinXP, it could take 30 seconds to a minute, to unwind the page file. I wouldn't expect Vista+ to be that bad. I was using a computer with a small amount of RAM. ******* You could try running Sysinternals Procmon, start a trace, then stop the program in question, and see what events show up. Stop the trace, scroll back, and analyze. You never know what you might discover. **** programming I would guess. |
#5
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Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?
On Tue, 16 Oct 2018 01:47:33 +0100, Ant wrote:
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: When you close a program or game, provided you're not saving a file, why doesn't it happen immediately? What on earth has it to do? Probably using a lot of resources like memories, storage, etc. But stopping using those should be instant. Just mark them as empty. |
#6
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Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Tue, 16 Oct 2018 01:47:33 +0100, Ant wrote: Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: When you close a program or game, provided you're not saving a file, why doesn't it happen immediately? What on earth has it to do? Probably using a lot of resources like memories, storage, etc. But stopping using those should be instant. Just mark them as empty. It's not the resources that matter. It's how the resources are managed, and what side effects the management of the resources have, that causes the delayed response. I don't think Windows 10 is anywhere near as bad as WinXP for that. But on the other hand, Windows 10 isn't good from an architecture perspective, and when testing edge cases, there's a good chance you'll break something. Previous OSes seemed to handle resource exhaustion more elegantly than Windows 10 does. In a typical Windows 10 meltdown, the Task Manager can't be started or made to stop the problem, then the system locks up, black screens, or plays fiddle music using tiny violins. You have to be *really awake* to spot resource exhaustion in time. For example, if Storage Spaces is running, and warns you that C: is running out of disk, you might only have a matter of *seconds* to do something about it. Don't go out in the kitchen and make another cup of coffee, if you get a low space warning. You need your ninja control-alt-delete response instead. Paul |
#7
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Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?
On Tue, 16 Oct 2018 16:26:19 +0100, Paul wrote:
Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: On Tue, 16 Oct 2018 01:47:33 +0100, Ant wrote: Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: When you close a program or game, provided you're not saving a file, why doesn't it happen immediately? What on earth has it to do? Probably using a lot of resources like memories, storage, etc. But stopping using those should be instant. Just mark them as empty. It's not the resources that matter. It's how the resources are managed, and what side effects the management of the resources have, that causes the delayed response. But I can ALT-TAB between the game and another application instantly. I don't think Windows 10 is anywhere near as bad as WinXP for that. But on the other hand, Windows 10 isn't good from an architecture perspective, and when testing edge cases, there's a good chance you'll break something. Previous OSes seemed to handle resource exhaustion more elegantly than Windows 10 does. In a typical Windows 10 meltdown, the Task Manager can't be started or made to stop the problem, then the system locks up, black screens, or plays fiddle music using tiny violins. You have to be *really awake* to spot resource exhaustion in time. For example, if Storage Spaces is running, and warns you that C: is running out of disk, you might only have a matter of *seconds* to do something about it. Don't go out in the kitchen and make another cup of coffee, if you get a low space warning. You need your ninja control-alt-delete response instead. Odd, as I've found successive Windows versions are BETTER at handling problems, including running low on resources. |
#8
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Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?
On 16/10/2018 15.38, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Tue, 16 Oct 2018 01:47:33 +0100, Ant wrote: Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: When you close a program or game, provided you're not saving a file, why doesn't it happen immediately?* What on earth has it to do? Probably using a lot of resources like memories, storage, etc. But stopping using those should be instant.* Just mark them as empty. Maybe it has to go through a long list and marking each one as free or whatever, in the correct order. Or worse, it has to load each resource from disk for some reason before clearing it. Maybe it fills them with zeroes before releasing them. Maybe it has to do something online, like log off, if it is one of those games. Maybe it checks for some thing, or writes some data to some file. Status, scores... maybe it has to calculate those first. Maybe it was running some thread in background doing something, like calculating an strategy, or indexing, and it has to finish it first (wait for the task to reach an exit or control point). Thousand reasons you need to look at the code to know which :-) -- Cheers, Carlos. |
#9
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Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?
Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 16/10/2018 15.38, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: On Tue, 16 Oct 2018 01:47:33 +0100, Ant wrote: Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: When you close a program or game, provided you're not saving a file, why doesn't it happen immediately? What on earth has it to do? Probably using a lot of resources like memories, storage, etc. But stopping using those should be instant. Just mark them as empty. Maybe it has to go through a long list and marking each one as free or whatever, in the correct order. Or worse, it has to load each resource from disk for some reason before clearing it. Maybe it fills them with zeroes before releasing them. Maybe it has to do something online, like log off, if it is one of those games. Maybe it checks for some thing, or writes some data to some file. Status, scores... maybe it has to calculate those first. Maybe it was running some thread in background doing something, like calculating an strategy, or indexing, and it has to finish it first (wait for the task to reach an exit or control point). Thousand reasons you need to look at the code to know which :-) You can run a trace. ETW captures a lot of stuff. Registry access. File I/O. All programs and services are visible (at the SVCHOST level). No need for source code for a quick check. And multiple ETW sinks can be running at the same time, because while you're running ProcMon, there are system processes recording specific ETW traffic as well. At least one logging system does it that way (doesn't capture a conventional log - captures ETW instead, and converts it on demand). I'm not a particular fan of them doing that, because most of the time that feature is broken (the log is then garbage). But the ETW feature is a good idea. You can do boot traces with it. You can do runtime tracing as well (what's needed in this case). ProcMon can do both a shutdown trace and a boot trace in the same run. The shutdown is stored in a closed file when the OS shuts down (you leave a trace running and the program saves the results for you). The startup trace is collected continuously (you can wait a couple minutes after boot before opening Procmon.exe and the trace will be waiting for you to save). And between the two saved files, you'll have a picture of a shutdown and a startup sequence. On the minus side, it leaves a lot to be desired, but on the plus side, it's easy to use. If you wrote a program like this: 1: GOTO 1 then that doesn't generate any ETW. Looking at a trace later, you'd have no clue what the program was doing. And I've had things that looked like that happen. I have a slow Win10 boot here, and one of the trace sections has 20 seconds of... no ETW events, and one core railed :-) And then we have to guess at what that could be. Paul |
#10
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Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?
On 10/16/2018 10:49 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 16/10/2018 15.38, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: On Tue, 16 Oct 2018 01:47:33 +0100, Ant wrote: Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: When you close a program or game, provided you're not saving a file, why doesn't it happen immediately?* What on earth has it to do? Probably using a lot of resources like memories, storage, etc. But stopping using those should be instant.* Just mark them as empty. Maybe it has to go through a long list and marking each one as free or whatever, in the correct order. Or worse, it has to load each resource from disk for some reason before clearing it. Maybe it fills them with zeroes before releasing them. Maybe it has to do something online, like log off, if it is one of those games. Maybe it checks for some thing, or writes some data to some file. Status, scores... maybe it has to calculate those first. Maybe it was running some thread in background doing something, like calculating an strategy, or indexing, and it has to finish it first (wait for the task to reach an exit or control point). Thousand reasons you need to look at the c'ode to know which :-) When you close a program, and then using file explorer, go to the both the program folder and the its data folder in the folder Users. Then sort the folder by the date and see which files have been written to the disk when the program closes. The time should be the time you closed the program. With both Firefox and Thunderbird, there are about a dozen files that get written to disk when the program closes. I suspect these files contain any thing you changed while using the program. tool bar setting, etc.; things that changed as the program runs, file history, etc. -- 2018: The year we learn to play the great game of Euchre |
#11
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Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?
On Wed, 17 Oct 2018 03:49:37 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 16/10/2018 15.38, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: On Tue, 16 Oct 2018 01:47:33 +0100, Ant wrote: Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: When you close a program or game, provided you're not saving a file, why doesn't it happen immediately? What on earth has it to do? Probably using a lot of resources like memories, storage, etc. But stopping using those should be instant. Just mark them as empty. Maybe it has to go through a long list and marking each one as free or whatever, in the correct order. Or worse, it has to load each resource from disk for some reason before clearing it. Maybe it fills them with zeroes before releasing them. I can't see the need for that, it should just say to Windows "this area of memory is now available for use" then close. Maybe it has to do something online, like log off, if it is one of those games. No, that's disabled. Maybe it checks for some thing, or writes some data to some file. Status, scores... maybe it has to calculate those first. No, this still happens if I save the game first, then when exiting I say "don't save". Maybe it was running some thread in background doing something, like calculating an strategy, or indexing, and it has to finish it first (wait for the task to reach an exit or control point). Thousand reasons you need to look at the code to know which :-) |
#12
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Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?
On 17/10/2018 17.38, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Wed, 17 Oct 2018 03:49:37 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote: On 16/10/2018 15.38, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: On Tue, 16 Oct 2018 01:47:33 +0100, Ant wrote: Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: When you close a program or game, provided you're not saving a file, why doesn't it happen immediately?* What on earth has it to do? Probably using a lot of resources like memories, storage, etc. But stopping using those should be instant.* Just mark them as empty. Maybe it has to go through a long list and marking each one as free or whatever, in the correct order. Or worse, it has to load each resource from disk for some reason before clearing it. Maybe it fills them with zeroes before releasing them. I can't see the need for that, it should just say to Windows "this area of memory is now available for use" then close. You don't, but they do :-P If it is a hundred areas, they have to loop through all of them. Maybe it has to do something online, like log off, if it is one of those games. No, that's disabled. Maybe they don't care :-p Maybe it checks for some thing, or writes some data to some file. Status, scores... maybe it has to calculate those first. No, this still happens if I save the game first, then when exiting I say "don't save". It still can do it. -- Cheers, Carlos. |
#13
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Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?
"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote
| When you close a program or game, provided you're not saving a file, why doesn't it happen immediately? What on earth has it to do? | I don't have any programs that lag in closing. But I don't have any games. I suppose they might have to save a lot of settings in case you want to continue where you left off. |
#14
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Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?
On Tue, 16 Oct 2018 03:00:58 +0100, Mayayana wrote:
"Jimmy Wilkinson Knife" wrote | When you close a program or game, provided you're not saving a file, why doesn't it happen immediately? What on earth has it to do? | I don't have any programs that lag in closing. But I don't have any games. I suppose they might have to save a lot of settings in case you want to continue where you left off. That would make sense, but I'd already saved the game and was asked if I wanted to when I clicked exit. |
#15
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Why isn't closing a program or game instantaneous?
On 10/16/2018 7:53 AM, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
When you close a program or game, provided you're not saving a file, why doesn't it happen immediately? What on earth has it to do? You will have to read their source codes to find out.... they gotta have been waiting for something! -- @~@ Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch! Live long and prosper!! / v \ Simplicity is Beauty! /( _ )\ May the Force and farces be with you! ^ ^ (x86_64 Ubuntu 9.10) Linux 2.6.39.3 不借貸! 不詐騙! 不*錢! 不援交! 不打交! 不打劫! 不自殺! 不求神! 請考慮綜援 (CSSA): http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_...sub_addressesa |
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