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Article: Windows 10 upgrade push changes things for IT pros and bootleggers
Windows 10 upgrade push changes things for IT pros and bootleggers http://www.engadget.com/2015/10/29/w...and-bootlegge/ Microsoft mistakenly pushed Windows 10 upgrades to existing Windows 7/8 users through the Update process earlier this year, but next year it will do it on purpose. .... "Soon" the Windows 10 Upgrade will be added to Windows 7/8's system update feature as an option, and at some point next year it will change from optional to recommended. What that means for many people is that because of their Windows Update settings, their machine will automatically update to Windows 10 if it hasn't already. You can still downgrade afterwards if it's not to your liking, but expect the push to get more aggressive going forward. -- Char Jackson |
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Article: Windows 10 upgrade push changes things for IT pros andbootleggers
Char Jackson wrote:
Windows 10 upgrade push changes things for IT pros and bootleggers http://www.engadget.com/2015/10/29/w...and-bootlegge/ Microsoft mistakenly pushed Windows 10 upgrades to existing Windows 7/8 users through the Update process earlier this year, but next year it will do it on purpose. ... "Soon" the Windows 10 Upgrade will be added to Windows 7/8's system update feature as an option, and at some point next year it will change from optional to recommended. What that means for many people is that because of their Windows Update settings, their machine will automatically update to Windows 10 if it hasn't already. You can still downgrade afterwards if it's not to your liking, but expect the push to get more aggressive going forward. Right then, who'll join me at Thermopylae? I'm prepared to fight until July 27th 2016. I love Win7 and I've updated all my machines apart from this my main workhorse. But I can go for a free Win10 here as I will. In the meantime I'm putting up with the broken WinUpdate messages, the negligent drivers, the massed ranks and numbers of MS' corporate forces, the sarky comments about Ludditeism, et al. Vivat Win7! Ed |
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Article: Windows 10 upgrade push changes things for IT pros andbootleggers
Ed Cryer wrote:
Char Jackson wrote: Windows 10 upgrade push changes things for IT pros and bootleggers http://www.engadget.com/2015/10/29/w...and-bootlegge/ Microsoft mistakenly pushed Windows 10 upgrades to existing Windows 7/8 users through the Update process earlier this year, but next year it will do it on purpose. ... "Soon" the Windows 10 Upgrade will be added to Windows 7/8's system update feature as an option, and at some point next year it will change from optional to recommended. What that means for many people is that because of their Windows Update settings, their machine will automatically update to Windows 10 if it hasn't already. You can still downgrade afterwards if it's not to your liking, but expect the push to get more aggressive going forward. Right then, who'll join me at Thermopylae? I'm prepared to fight until July 27th 2016. I love Win7 and I've updated all my machines apart from this my main workhorse. But I can go for a free Win10 here as I will. In the meantime I'm putting up with the broken WinUpdate messages, the negligent drivers, the massed ranks and numbers of MS' corporate forces, the sarky comments about Ludditeism, et al. Vivat Win7! Ed P.S. Keep your powder dry, and the backup images very regular. Ed |
#4
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Article: Windows 10 upgrade push changes things for IT pros and bootleggers
Per Char Jackson:
"Soon" the Windows 10 Upgrade will be added to Windows 7/8's system update feature as an option, and at some point next year it will change from optional to recommended. What that means for many people is that because of their Windows Update settings, their machine will automatically update to Windows 10 if it hasn't already. Judging from my own experience with Windows Update (*ALWAYS* set to do nothing or ask before doing anything) just about everybody will have 10 inflicted upon them. I don't know how or why, but Windows Update has eventually installed a bunch of changes on my Windows 7 machines even though the setting was set to explicitly not to. EdCryer has it right: make sure you have an image ready to go. -- Pete Cresswell |
#5
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Article: Windows 10 upgrade push changes things for IT pros andbootleggers
Char Jackson wrote:
Windows 10 upgrade push changes things for IT pros and bootleggers http://www.engadget.com/2015/10/29/w...and-bootlegge/ Microsoft mistakenly pushed Windows 10 upgrades to existing Windows 7/8 users through the Update process earlier this year, but next year it will do it on purpose. ... "Soon" the Windows 10 Upgrade will be added to Windows 7/8's system update feature as an option, and at some point next year it will change from optional to recommended. What that means for many people is that because of their Windows Update settings, their machine will automatically update to Windows 10 if it hasn't already. You can still downgrade afterwards if it's not to your liking, but expect the push to get more aggressive going forward. That's not what MSFT said for the Win10 Recommended update route (when deployed next year) via AU/WU. - i.e. the user will be prompted before changing the o/s Though when that prompt occurs - before/after/during setup.exe has not been made clear. Now everything that MSFT states doesn't necessary work like they write it...thus not configuring a device to full automatic is probably a prudent choice. -- ....winston msft mvp consumer apps |
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Article: Windows 10 upgrade push changes things for IT pros andbootleggers
(PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per Char Jackson: "Soon" the Windows 10 Upgrade will be added to Windows 7/8's system update feature as an option, and at some point next year it will change from optional to recommended. What that means for many people is that because of their Windows Update settings, their machine will automatically update to Windows 10 if it hasn't already. Judging from my own experience with Windows Update (*ALWAYS* set to do nothing or ask before doing anything) just about everybody will have 10 inflicted upon them. I don't know how or why, but Windows Update has eventually installed a bunch of changes on my Windows 7 machines even though the setting was set to explicitly not to. EdCryer has it right: make sure you have an image ready to go. And what setting were those ? If not set to automatic the only change that occurs is the updates for the Windows Update engine not program or security updates. -- ....winston msft mvp consumer apps |
#7
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Article: Windows 10 upgrade push changes things for IT pros and bootleggers
Per ...winston?:
Judging from my own experience with Windows Update (*ALWAYS* set to do nothing or ask before doing anything) just about everybody will have 10 inflicted upon them. I don't know how or why, but Windows Update has eventually installed a bunch of changes on my Windows 7 machines even though the setting was set to explicitly not to. EdCryer has it right: make sure you have an image ready to go. And what setting were those ? If not set to automatic the only change that occurs is the updates for the Windows Update engine not program or security updates. That is what I think most people would expect: not automatic == no updates. In fact, that is what I used to expect. But I have been burned too many times not to believe otherwise. -- Pete Cresswell |
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Article: Windows 10 upgrade push changes things for IT pros and bootleggers
Char Jackson wrote:
Windows 10 upgrade push changes things for IT pros and bootleggers http://www.engadget.com/2015/10/29/w...and-bootlegge/ Microsoft mistakenly pushed Windows 10 upgrades to existing Windows 7/8 users through the Update process earlier this year, but next year it will do it on purpose. ... "Soon" the Windows 10 Upgrade will be added to Windows 7/8's system update feature as an option, and at some point next year it will change from optional to recommended. What that means for many people is that because of their Windows Update settings, their machine will automatically update to Windows 10 if it hasn't already. You can still downgrade afterwards if it's not to your liking, but expect the push to get more aggressive going forward. I've had to disable Windows Updates. Microsoft has been increasingly pushing bogus updates - they have nothing to do with Windows 7 and everything to do with facilitating migration to Windows 10, adding telemetry (spying) for Microsoft, or trying to turn Windows 7/8 into adware platforms to advertize Windows 10. Microsoft is desparate that Windows 10 doesn't end up another Windows Vista flop. I have to inspect each update to see what [little] information is provided by Microsoft and wait a week or month to see what others start complaining about an update. Also, Microsoft pushes updates for software that I do not have installed. Skype, OneDrive for Business (aka Skydrive Pro) - which is not the same as the Onedrive client and service, Lync, and more gets pushed as updates although those programs are not installed (other than what the updates want to push into my Windows 7). In fact, I have to setup a time where I can install the allowed updates one at a time because one of them will change permissions such that I can no longer run some programs that worked fine before. Nothing in permissions can be changed. I checked that my logged in account is an admin-level account (in the administrators security group) and looked wherever I could to figure out why old programs either would not load anymore or why they instantly crashed. So I've had to use image backups to restore my OS partition to before applying a bunch of updates so my Windows was usable again. Later I will have to save another full image and apply each update one at a time to determine which one(s) **** up my Windows setup. Microsoft is no longer to be trusted regarding what updates they want to push onto your computer. Note that setting Windows Updates to "never notify" does not disable the WU service. Windows Defender, for example, and other programs can still use the WU service to acquire updates that are considered separate of updates for Windows (and MS Office). You have to configure the startup mode of the WU service to Disabled if you really want to ensure Microsoft doesn't try to sneak in a background update (which you may only realize happened when you shutdown and see notice about applying updates on shutdown and then completing them on the next startup). To ensure Microsoft doesn't get sneaky, especially if you didn't review the updates to eliminate the bogus ones, like the "Get Win10 app" update, you need to configure the WU client to "never update" and disable the WU service (set its startup mode to Disabled). When you later want to check for updates, enabled the Windows Update service and start it and then use the WU client to check for updates -- and review ALL updates that Microsoft wants to push at you. |
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Article: Windows 10 upgrade push changes things for IT pros andbootleggers
(PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per ...winston?: Judging from my own experience with Windows Update (*ALWAYS* set to do nothing or ask before doing anything) just about everybody will have 10 inflicted upon them. I don't know how or why, but Windows Update has eventually installed a bunch of changes on my Windows 7 machines even though the setting was set to explicitly not to. EdCryer has it right: make sure you have an image ready to go. And what setting were those ? If not set to automatic the only change that occurs is the updates for the Windows Update engine not program or security updates. That is what I think most people would expect: not automatic == no updates. In fact, that is what I used to expect. But I have been burned too many times not to believe otherwise. Yes, I also have seen and read that quite a few believe that not automatic means no updates....but the update for the Windows Update engine service (noted earlier) does not fall under the constraints applied by an end-user's settings for Windows Update. The EULA for Windows (and has for decades) stated that updates to the Windows Update service engine will download and install automatically without regardless of user permission or intervention and without notice. qp Windows Update. To enable the proper functioning of the Windows Update service in the software (if you use it), updates or downloads to the Windows Update service will be required from time to time and downloaded and installed without further notice to you. /qp? -- ....winston msft mvp consumer apps |
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Article: Windows 10 upgrade push changes things for IT pros and bootleggers
Per VanguardLH:
You have to configure the startup mode of the WU service to Disabled if you really want to ensure Microsoft doesn't try to sneak in a background update (which you may only realize happened when you shutdown and see notice about applying updates on shutdown and then completing them on the next startup). I am getting a little glimmer of a recollection (?) that even Disabling Windows Update is not 100%. Maybe Somebody Who Knows can comment. I have to wonder if leaving Windows Update on autopilot and having a "Good" image on hand at all times might be the path of least resistance. At least then, the manhours are spent on the user's schedule. i.e. things get flaky, the user can elect to re-image if/when they want - as opposed to being in the middle of troubleshooting a production problem, re-booting for some reason-or-another, and getting hit with "Please wait while Windows installs 97 updates"..... The logic being that automagic updates will apply an update here, an update there.... and the user will hardly notice - and maintain control of their PC at all times. OTOH, the image that is re-imaged from will probably need about a bazillion updates.... But, at least, after the re-image the user can elect to reboot and take a lunch break or something... -- Pete Cresswell |
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Article: Windows 10 upgrade push changes things for IT pros andbootleggers
On Fri, 30 Oct 2015 18:39:43 +0000, Ed Cryer wrote:
Right then, who'll join me at Thermopylae? I'm prepared to fight until July 27th 2016. I love Win7 and I've updated all my machines apart from this my main workhorse. But I can go for a free Win10 here as I will. In the meantime I'm putting up with the broken WinUpdate messages, the negligent drivers, the massed ranks and numbers of MS' corporate forces, the sarky comments about Ludditeism, et al. Vivat Win7! Ed Use the XP hack and you can continue getting updates and stuff for XP until 2019! I still run XP SP3 with the hack on an old Dell P4. No need to update to anything. Latest Chrome, Firefox, Thunderbird, etc. |
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Article: Windows 10 upgrade push changes things for IT pros andbootleggers
(PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per VanguardLH: You have to configure the startup mode of the WU service to Disabled if you really want to ensure Microsoft doesn't try to sneak in a background update (which you may only realize happened when you shutdown and see notice about applying updates on shutdown and then completing them on the next startup). I am getting a little glimmer of a recollection (?) that even Disabling Windows Update is not 100%. Maybe Somebody Who Knows can comment. I have to wonder if leaving Windows Update on autopilot and having a "Good" image on hand at all times might be the path of least resistance. At least then, the manhours are spent on the user's schedule. i.e. things get flaky, the user can elect to re-image if/when they want - as opposed to being in the middle of troubleshooting a production problem, re-booting for some reason-or-another, and getting hit with "Please wait while Windows installs 97 updates"..... The logic being that automagic updates will apply an update here, an update there.... and the user will hardly notice - and maintain control of their PC at all times. OTOH, the image that is re-imaged from will probably need about a bazillion updates.... But, at least, after the re-image the user can elect to reboot and take a lunch break or something... I've left mine on "Check and ask me". It does actually check each day on first boot, but doesn't inform me if there are any updates. So I simply look in there once a day; making sure, of course, that the latest date of check is today's date (if it should turn out not to be, well then I'll do a manual check and figure out a plan B.) Ed |
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Article: Windows 10 upgrade push changes things for IT pros and bootleggers
Ed Cryer wrote:
I've left mine on "Check and ask me". It does actually check each day on first boot, but doesn't inform me if there are any updates. So I simply look in there once a day; making sure, of course, that the latest date of check is today's date (if it should turn out not to be, well then I'll do a manual check and figure out a plan B.) The problem with that mode is I and others have noted that updates DID get downloaded without any prompting and they get applied during a shutdown. You never got prompted to grant permissions for any download and install of updates. You shutdown and scratch your head why Windows is telling you to wait for updates to install. And later you reboot into Windows and are told to wait until updates complete their installation. Some updates, like the Get Win10 App, don't need your permission to retrieve the, ahem, "update". All they need is for the WU service to be available (or maybe it is the BITS service to do the background download). Setting the WU client to "notify only" or even to "never notify" does not guarantee that Microsoft won't still update Windows or utilize their WU and BITS services to surreptitously obtain programs aka "updates". Too many users have noted getting updates for which they were never prompted despite setting the WU client to ask or never check. As proof that Microsoft doesn't need your permission to use the WU service to obtain updates is their Defender product. It uses the WU service to obtain its updates and you never get prompted for those despite how you configured the WU client. For me, there is no point to using "notify only" because that merely means that I will be pestered with reminders to get the updates before I have prepared for applying them (saving an image backup, allotting time to review all the updates, and then apply them one by one to check for artifacts in unwanted behavior). Even with the WU client configured for "never notify", not too long later I did a shutdown and got hit with updates installing on shutdown and then having to wait for them to complete on the next Windows startup. So "never notify" does not work. Microsoft can still push updates as long as something on your host runs to utilize the WU or BITS services. Setting those services to Disabled is the only way you can ensure of Microsoft not changing the state of your Windows setup. In fact, notice that the BITS service is configured for Manual startup. That means a caller process asks for that service to to do background downloads. Although I have the WU client set to "never notify" and the WU service is configured as Disabled, I still find the BITS service has started. With manual startup mode, that means something called it. I disabled Defender (worthless and I use far superior 3rd party security software), what else would be calling the BITS service to do background downloads? At first, I set the WU client to "never notify". That did not work because I still got unprompted updates that were applied on shutdown and completed on the next startup of Windows. So I disabled the WU service. Yet I found something had called the BITS service to perform background downloads. So I've disabled the BITS service, too. Eventually Microsoft might wise up and realize users are nailing the doors and windows closed to prevent any updates until the users decide if and when to retrieve and apply them. So Microsoft will probably start pushing updates that can phone home: if users accept those updates, especially considering how Microsoft is moving to vague descriptions of them and even merging more than one functional change within them (many now modify several features instead of one), those users may end up with phone-home "updates" which are actually updaters themselves. Since Microsoft's firewall does not, by default, block outbound connections, tis time to invest in a firewall that prompts on ALL outbound connects so can authorize just what can connect out. But then Microsoft could push out a kernel-mode updater "update" that could bypass any 3rd party firewall. Long ago they added IP addresses for some of their well-known server hosts so they could have Windows connect to those without fear of users adding entries in the 'hosts' file in trying to block Microsoft from getting to those servers. No DNS lookup means no DNS blocking (and what the 'hosts' file eventually became used for). Microsoft knows how to circumvent any blockage provided there is an incentive to do so. Making sure Windows 10 doesn't flop as did Windows Vista is a strong incentive. |
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Article: Windows 10 upgrade push changes things for IT pros and bootleggers
Per VanguardLH:
So I've disabled the BITS service, too. BITS = Background Intelligent Transfer Service, right? -- Pete Cresswell |
#15
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Article: Windows 10 upgrade push changes things for IT pros and bootleggers
PeteCresswell wrote:
Per VanguardLH: So I've disabled the BITS service, too. BITS = Background Intelligent Transfer Service, right? Yep. |
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