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#46
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O.T. HD, PSU review:
Mark Twain wrote:
Now that we've selected the PSU, I was thinking about getting another APC Surge Arrest like the one I currently have, just in case it goes out. https://www.apc.com/shop/us/en/produ...-outlet/P-PRO8 What do you think? I do get an abnormal amount of outages here. When it rains or its windy the power lines go out. As I said, my outside box is fine now; Although as added protection I have (3) heavy plastic bags over it to keep it dry but it's the power lines or transformers or whatever that go out. Last time, I had 4 outages in a row. I wish I had the $$$$ to go solar,. I live in the desert so it would be perfect. Thoughts/Suggestions? Robert That's a pretty low price for a surge arrestor. A Tripplite ISOBar is, like $70-$80. On the APC, there is some grumbling about the button for turning on the outlets. I can't tell if that is a switch or a breaker. Some bars have included a breaker, to limit the load to 15 amps. The Tripplite might have used a regular on-off switch. I can't tell exactly what the APC one uses, but if the button is known to not be reliable, you can just leave it switched on all the time. This one has a breaker, because the switch says "Reset" on it. https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16812120523 Same with this one, breaker as well. Cord only six feet. https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16812120524 There are mounting holes on the back. If you put some screws into a wall, the bar can hook onto the screws. The one I installed, I bolted it to the side of a computer desk, to make it easier to get at the plugs and cords. The breaker button on this Tripplite is on the side, and the switch is just a switch. I think this concept is similar to the one I got more than ten years ago. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Tripp-Li...LTRA/203139330 There is also a version to protect dialup modems, but not many people use dialup POTS modems any more. https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....mL._SX425_.jpg Paul |
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#47
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O.T. HD, PSU review:
Mark Twain wrote:
I went to help and click About Firefox to see which version I had and this popped up: http://i67.tinypic.com/xckjtf.jpg So restarted the computer http://i64.tinypic.com/2akfi8y.jpg http://i64.tinypic.com/2hxou8p.jpg Robert I wonder what it was whining about then ? Looks to me like the normal update mechanism worked normally for you. And you did end up on 64.0 and everything. Which is the correct release, based on looking at the "releases" list. Paul |
#48
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O.T. HD, PSU review:
The breaker/reset button is hidden on the
right lower side but you can see the light for it (near the cord). So I'll go with the same, it's been reliable and as you say cheap. Thanks, Robert |
#49
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O.T. HD, PSU review:
I just checked the PSU again and saw it had a switch
whereas the back plates for the 8500 and 780 are both different. On the 8500 the plug comes out on the left http://i63.tinypic.com/347jogk.jpg On the 780 it comes out on the right and neither have switches. Now what? http://i63.tinypic.com/4ij3ao.jpg Robert |
#50
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O.T. HD, PSU review:
See what I mean about strange things
popping up and happening,... Robert |
#51
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O.T. HD, PSU review:
Mark Twain wrote:
I just checked the PSU again and saw it had a switch whereas the back plates for the 8500 and 780 are both different. On the 8500 the plug comes out on the left http://i63.tinypic.com/347jogk.jpg On the 780 it comes out on the right and neither have switches. Now what? http://i63.tinypic.com/4ij3ao.jpg Robert It's OK for a PC without switches on the back, to receive an ATX supply with a switch on it. You examine the border area around the faceplate, and see if any of the metal detail on the computer case, conflicts with a feature on the new PSU. To me, it looks like the screws on the faceplate area, are in the standard locations. For the picture of the 780, it was hard to see the screws against the black finish, but I think they're all in the standard locations. The 780 power supply appears to have a self-test button, as well as a green LED to indicate the test was successful. I don't see the word "TEST" on the button at all, but I'm guessing that's what it is for. Your old supplies are auto-switching (110/220V). If the new supply has one of those red sliders on the back for voltage, then that's not a problem as long as it is set correctly for the expected voltage. The only other issue with Dells, is the non-standard wiring on a couple years of much older machines. I think we checked for that on a previous occasion. I think you're still in good shape, and just run your eyeball over the border area framework and make sure there aren't any metalwork conflicts. I don't know if the standards, such as they are, allow all those metai "detailings" around the edges like that. The case makers take a lot of chances with their messing about. Paul |
#52
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O.T. HD, PSU review:
I lightened the picture of the 780:
http://i67.tinypic.com/9ieqhl.jpg I don't notice anything else on the 780 besides those flanges, The 8500 also has flanges but they aren't uniform, however the screw pattern are the same. http://i63.tinypic.com/347jogk.jpg So if it has a slider set it to 110V? and should I leave the power switched on or do I have to switch it on/off each time? Thanks, Robert |
#53
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O.T. HD, PSU review:
I checked with our chosen PSU and
the screw pattern is the same. Robert |
#54
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O.T. HD, PSU review:
Mark Twain wrote:
I lightened the picture of the 780: http://i67.tinypic.com/9ieqhl.jpg I don't notice anything else on the 780 besides those flanges, The 8500 also has flanges but they aren't uniform, however the screw pattern are the same. http://i63.tinypic.com/347jogk.jpg So if it has a slider set it to 110V? and should I leave the power switched on or do I have to switch it on/off each time? Thanks, Robert When an ATX PSU has the switch on the back, you leave it at "1" or "ON". When a supply is "ON" at the back, the +5VSB rail is always powered. On my newer machine, this wastes 1.3W of electricity. If the machine is "ON" at the back and sleeping (RAM contents preserved, no fans running), that uses 7.5W of electricity. The power button on the front of the computer is the "soft" power button. It causes the PSU to go to the full power state, so both halves of the PSU run. When you select shutdown in Windows, that turns off the big half of the supply, but leaves the +5VSB running. And a shutdown uses 1.3W, whereas a selection of Sleep (wakes up fast) is 7.5W. The amount of Sleep power, is a function of the amount of memory. My typing machine uses 5W while sleeping, the test machine uses 7.5W. Some older supplies were less efficient. They wasted enough power, that when you woke them from sleep, a puff of warm air would initially come out of the PSU housing. And that's proof that the +5VSB heatsink was pretty hot inside. While it was sleeping. The supplies I have now, don't have a thermal signature at startup, so less power is wasted. And the measurement shows the magnitude of power involved. You use the switch at the back, if and when you want the consumption to be exactly 0.0 watts. You do shutdown first (drops to 1.3W), then go to the back of the machine and switch it off to 0.0W loading. Your machines without the switch, would always have the +5VSB running. With power loads depending on what they're doing, like in the examples above. Paul |
#55
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O.T. HD, PSU review:
Understood,..in passing I used the
sleep mode only once and didn't like it, although no puff of smoke. I'll leave it switched on. The switch in the back is like my (2)external Startech HD's cases and have another I use for cloning HD's. https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16817707227 Robert |
#56
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O.T. HD, PSU review:
Just purchased the (2) PSU's with your
good help and advice. I'm glad I thought to ask a second time about the choices we made. https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16817151203 Also purchased another Surge Arrest. https://www.ebay.com/itm/APC-SurgeAr...53.m2749.l2649 The red indicator (1) detects dangerous wiring problems,..(click the second image for details) and mine is red all the time, but I've never had any problems with it? So how would I ground it? Thanks, Robert |
#57
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O.T. HD, PSU review:
Mark Twain wrote:
Just purchased the (2) PSU's with your good help and advice. I'm glad I thought to ask a second time about the choices we made. https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16817151203 Also purchased another Surge Arrest. https://www.ebay.com/itm/APC-SurgeAr...53.m2749.l2649 The red indicator (1) detects dangerous wiring problems,..(click the second image for details) and mine is red all the time, but I've never had any problems with it? So how would I ground it? Thanks, Robert "how would I ground it" Good question. I was not able to find a manual that positively verifies the functions of the indicators. I can see a red light on the unit, but no pictures give me the text under the red indicator. What I did find is this, a text line which tells me "Modem/FAX/DSL" capability for the RJ11 passthru telco arrestor. I was initially concerned the RJ11 was only for 8KHz or lower analog phone service (i.e. to be placed after the inline filter and only feeding the phone). https://www.schneider-electric.ca/en...pdf/PRO8T2_APC But there's no words concerning the function of the unit at all. I can't tell if that "button" on the front is a 15 amp breaker, or a simple power switch. A couple of the outlets are "always on", so perhaps those aren't tied into any breaker function. ******* First, we can try a "symptoms" test. Do you get a shock from either PC while touching the chassis and handling a cold water line in the house ? Lots of modern equipment, relies on North American "three prong plug". The third prong is safety ground, and is intended (by tying Safety Ground to machine chassis) to divert line potential if "Hot" on the 120V touches the chassis internally. That was the original intent. Now, modern equipment makes electrical noise, and to meet FCC Part 15 on conducted emissions, it's popular to put a filter on the front end. This can be seen in the pavouk reference page. http://www.pavouk.org/hw/en_atxps.html Capacitor C2 and C3 are part of a low pass filter. AC is across those caps. The caps "conduct" AC, so a tiny current flows. The magnitude of current, can be uncomfortable to touch, but is not intended to be fatal. Notice how L and N go, via caps C2 and C3, to the Safety Ground prong (aka Shield). The couple milliamps of AC current want to flow into Safety Ground. If you have wiring in the house up to code, you have three prong outlets. The third prong, is tied to a ground item near the panel. The electrician ensures whatever the local code uses for ground, is tied into the panel. In some cases this uses a ground rod. In certain soil types, soil conductivity is poor, and something more substantial than a single rod is required. Two-prong outlets are grandfathered. If your house is old enough to not have three-prong plugs, you don't have to rip out the wiring and re-do. You can keep your stinking two-prong plugs. But, it means you will always be getting shocks off your metallic desktop PC chassis. Some houses tie the Safety Ground to the cold water pipe, on the *street side*. You may see a short, fat, jumper conductor, between street side and house side on the water meter. Due to the usage of plastic high pressure water pipes in modern premises, it's a dangerous assumption to just grab any old tap and assume it's grounded. Only your local code can tell you whether this practice of street side cold water grounding is legal or not. Or would run afoul of your house fire insurance. OK, so say somebody cuts the Safety Ground path at the entry point in your house. Now, the Safety Ground floats. Capacitor C2 and C3 pump their milliamps into the Safety Ground. The *chassis* of the PC becomes hot. If you touch it, you get a shock. The level of shock is a function of hand dampness, and also how good of a ground you touched with your other hand. Do you regularly receive AC 60Hz tingling from either PC ? If you don't, then it suggests some kind of ground path is present. But the original purpose of Safety Ground was not for 2mA AC discharges. It was intended to sink 50A until the breaker in the panel opens. The ground has to be that good, in the event of a Hot shorting to Chassis. For your *surge protector* to work, it needs the 50A quality ground. It can't have a shabby ground and work. A surge could also place a 50A current into Safety Ground. A surge isn't 2 milliamps when clamped. The indicator light on the surge protector, works at the 2mA level. It has no way of determining whether a true low-impedance ground is present. If the Safety ground is not present, and all that is present is Line and Neutral, then you don't have surge protection. L--SP--N === Only Line to Neutral is clamped \ / to 200VAC, when the premises SP SP don't have a Safety Ground. \ / Safety Ground Just like the C2 and C3 capacitors in each ATX power supple, the SurgeProtection items discharge into Ground. In the event that a high voltage transient (200V) should appear on L with respect to SafetyGround, a large current flows through the SP on that leg and into SafetyGround. If no SafetyGround is present, the bottom two legs offer no protection. (Maybe Line conducts to Neutral, through the two SP.) AFAIK, that's how full protection works. Neutral could break loose and be lifted above Safety Ground, and that would test the HiPot on devices on that AC circuit. Whether L to Safety Ground or L to N is too high (200V), that too would be testing the integrity of the electrolytic cap in each ATX PSU. Too high of a potential applied will cause the electrolytic to explode, and the number of joules in there is substantial (lose an eardrum). If you're not getting 60Hz shocks off the chassis, you have "some" grounding. But only an electrician, doing an inspection and tracing that the panel ground runs to a proper code ground, tells you whether you're ready for the Surge Protector to actually protect you. In places like Florida, the soil conditions may require some sort of active test, to verify the house ground is still good. In some places, they recommend, say, dampening the ground near the ground solution, in hot dry weather, so the dirt stays moist. It's a pretty pathetic grounding solution, that relies on your constant usage of a garden hose... The quality of ground varies across the continent, with some places making just a small long rod sufficient for this purpose. Others might require a whole bunch of rods or something. Paul |
#58
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O.T. HD, PSU review:
The second picture in the link(the back of the box)
identifies the function of the indicators by numbers: https://www.ebay.com/itm/APC-SurgeAr...53.m2749.l2649 I don't get any shocks of any kind; also when I had the Klimaire mini-split system installed they checked the power panels and the outside box because they had to tie into it. So wouldn't they have noticed if it wasn't ground? Since they tested the 220V with meters etc. It's a single mobile home by the way, if that makes a difference in code etc. and live in the desert near Palm Springs on the other side of the mountain. Also I had (4) different contractors come out and give me estimates and they all saw the panels and the outside box as well and no one said anything about grounding. Here's my current APC Surge Arrest; It doesn't have a switch per se but a reset button that doesn't seem to work because I've tried it. Maybe I need to hold it in longer to activate it? Or because the problem is constant it won't reset or whatever it's suppose to do? http://i63.tinypic.com/301ddhd.jpg Robert |
#59
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O.T. HD, PSU review:
Do you suggest I call an electrician and
do a ground test? That could get pricey,.. Robert |
#60
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O.T. HD, PSU review:
Mark Twain wrote:
The second picture in the link(the back of the box) identifies the function of the indicators by numbers: https://www.ebay.com/itm/APC-SurgeAr...53.m2749.l2649 I don't get any shocks of any kind; also when I had the Klimaire mini-split system installed they checked the power panels and the outside box because they had to tie into it. So wouldn't they have noticed if it wasn't ground? Since they tested the 220V with meters etc. It's a single mobile home by the way, if that makes a difference in code etc. and live in the desert near Palm Springs on the other side of the mountain. Also I had (4) different contractors come out and give me estimates and they all saw the panels and the outside box as well and no one said anything about grounding. Here's my current APC Surge Arrest; It doesn't have a switch per se but a reset button that doesn't seem to work because I've tried it. Maybe I need to hold it in longer to activate it? Or because the problem is constant it won't reset or whatever it's suppose to do? http://i63.tinypic.com/301ddhd.jpg Robert But this is why you're buying another surge arrestor right ? The current one damaged by the mis-applied 220V to the 110V surge arrestor ? It's probably blown out inside. That would account for the red LED reporting the functional failure. Check for symptoms again (red LED) when the new one you ordered shows up. The red LED should be off on the new one, and the new one ready to function. Paul |
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