Windows 8 is a Flop, just as I predicted

On 7/29/2014 2:23 PM, mechanic wrote:
On Tue, 29 Jul 2014 10:43:59 -0700, Ken Blake, MVP wrote:

As far as I'm concerned, there are no advantages to laptops except
for their portability when you travel, and I always strongly
recommend against using a laptop at home.

Here we use mainly laptops, usually cheap professional grade ones
like Thinkpads that companies are replacing. Batteries are cheap and
easy to replace, if the machine dies just buy another for £100-£150.
Ebay always has plenty. This current laptop is a Dell Vostro
something-or-other with a great screen and keyboard, cost £120
including Win8 Pro. Not enough USB ports but who's complaining. We
used to like Asus eeePCs (901 etc.) but they are a bit out of date
with a 32 bit Atom processor. I don't strongly recommend anything,
no comebacks.

Buy cheap and buy often has been my motto for decades. No sense in
paying big bucks for the latest and greatest for most of us since when
you get it home, setup, and have everything working correctly, it is
already outdated. And in a year or two, it is worth about one tenth of
what you paid for it.

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Kingston 120GB SSD - Thunderbird v24.4.0
Centrino Core2 Duo T7400 2.16 GHz - 4GB - Windows 8.1 Pro w/Media Center

On 7/29/2014 2:11 PM, Roderick Stewart wrote:
On Tue, 29 Jul 2014 10:43:59 -0700, "Ken Blake, MVP"
wrote:


There are plenty of people who use laptops at home.


True. But I never understand why anyone uses a laptop in a situation
where he can use a desktop. Laptops cost more, are more vulnerable to
problems, are susceptible to being dropped and broken, are more
vulnerable to being stolen, are harder to repair, cost more to repair,
are much harder and more expensive to do hardware upgrades on, etc. As
far as I'm concerned, there are no advantages to laptops except for
their portability when you travel, and I always strongly recommend
against using a laptop at home.


I'm the only one who uses a desktop at home,
everyone else uses a laptop.

??? No you're not. I do, and I know many, many others who also do.

Or do you mean you're the only one *you* know who uses a desktop at
home? If so, you don't know many people.

My main computer at home is a desktop too and it's what I always
prefer to use unless I have to use something else. I have a nice huge
screen and can batter away all day on a proper heavy duty Cherry
keyboard that I can dismantle and clean if I spill anything on it,
temporarily replacing it with another one in less than a minute.
Replacing a keyboard on a laptop is like surgery (if you're lucky
enough that the keyboard is the only thing that's been affected).

Also, my current desktop (or "floortop" if we're being pedantic) has a
fast quad core CPU, lots of memory and an SSD, so I'm not frustratedly
drumming my fingers for several seconds every time I press a key or
click the mouse for something to happen. The laptop is quite fast too,
but the desktop's response is practically instant, the way modern
electronics should be.

I usually dock my laptops (and tablets) and use them like desktops with
external monitors, keyboards, and mice and all. So the keyboards and
screens are still like new and are out of the way to get anything
spilled on them. And my external monitor is on a floating arm and
laptops and tablets are behind the monitor and totally protected against
spills anyway.

And laptops and some cases tablets can be just as fast as desktops. This
oldie I upgraded to an SSD and Windows 8 now boots in 10 seconds. And
opening applications usually opens instantly. And for the rare times I
use my laptops like a laptop, they are still just as fast.

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Kingston 120GB SSD - Thunderbird v24.4.0
Centrino Core2 Duo T7400 2.16 GHz - 4GB - Windows 8.1 Pro w/Media Center

On 7/29/2014 7:57 AM, Wolf Kirchmeir wrote:
On 2014-07-28 5:29 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
[...]
Question: What is the advantage of having a tablet that is about the
same size, an external drive, and the other items that you mentioned
when that is all in my laptop. My laptop has a 500gb disk and 4gb ram.
and occupies a space of about 15 X 10 x 1.5 in

a) With the type cover folded, my Surface Pro 2 is 12 x 10 x 3/4 inch.
b) Ever since I had a major data loss, I use external drives.
Fortunately data recovery software worked very well. FWIW, it was
Recuva, highly recommended. There are others.

I find the Surface lighter than the laptop, and convertible. OTOH, a net
book is in essence a tablet with a keyboard cover. Or, if you like, the
Surface is a net book with a detachable keyboard. Or, if you like, a net
book is a tablet with a fixed cover. We used the Surface as our travel
computer recently.

With a dock, the Surface is in essence a portable CPU, which can be used
for some tasks on its own, but becomes a full-fledged desktop when
docked on your desk.

A full-fledged desktop?

It doesn't even have the most basic component of a desktop computer...at
least one optical drive.

My 17" HP laptop is a lot closer to a "full-fledged" desktop than the
Surface with a docking station. In no way, shape or form, would I
consider my HP a "full-fledged" desktop computer.

On 7/28/2014 7:15 AM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
On 7/27/2014 11:23 PM, . . .winston wrote:
Alias wrote:
Ed Cryer wrote:

The market would become overflowing with competing
versions of it; a bit like we have with gas and electricity suppliers,
who scramble their tariffs in order to befuddle the punters, tell
outright lies and rule; until eventually the gov would have to step in
and bring them to order.

At least MS were right about tablets. They're the future, no doubt
about
it.

Not true. They are a fad an low Ipad sales prove it.

Yep, only 200 million sold since introduction as of 2014 Q1.


But desktops are still the norm for older people and especially
office work; and those number millions.

Agreed.

Currently true and should continue for some time but the number of
tablet-smart type devices brought into the workplace by employes has
already changed that ecosystem. The 1980 and later generations will
inevitable determine the future for both.

And never underestimate the impact that Asia's consumers, as
infrastructure improves, will have on the long term direction.

There is one thing that people do not consider when discussing the
future of laptops. That is the human body itself.

In my case may touch screens do not work. Apparently there is something
in my body chemistry, that causes the touch screen not to detect my
fingers. Because of this it is repeat, repeat, repeat to get the
response I want.

Second people are forgetting carpal tunnel syndrome. While the wrists
are not as involved as they are with a mouse, holding your arms in the
unnatural position required to use a touch screens becomes uncomfortable
after using the screen for a period. if touch screens become more
common, this will be come a common problem.

Lastly I like my screen clean so I can see what is on it without
cleaning it every 10 minutes.

What makes you believe you must position a touch screen the same place
as an external monitor usually sits? No tablets works best where your
keyboard usually sits.

I also often wash my hands a lot, as I am uncomfortable with hand oils
on my hands so my touch screens don't usually get fingerprints. But for
those that does have a problem, they sell screen protectors that doesn't
show fingerprints.

And the last point is what makes you think that a tablet is always a
tablet? I won't buy a tablet (unless it is a cheap Android or something)
that doesn't have a docking port. That way you can use it just like a
desktop with an external monitor and all. Now the touch screen is
basically useless, just like your average desktop.

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Kingston 120GB SSD - Thunderbird v24.4.0
Centrino Core2 Duo T7400 2.16 GHz - 4GB - Windows 8.1 Pro w/Media Center

On 7/28/2014 7:46 AM, PAS wrote:
"BillW50" wrote in message
...
On 7/27/2014 12:19 PM, Zaky Waky wrote:
BillW50 wrote in :

Subject: Windows 8 is a Flop, just as I predicted
From: BillW50
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-8

On 7/27/2014 6:32 AM, Ed Cryer wrote:
At least MS were right about tablets. They're the future, no doubt
about
it. But desktops are still the norm for older people and especially
office work; and those number millions.

While I have used tablets since around 2000, I knew virtually nothing
about Windows tablets. So I decided that I had to start learning. My
first one back in 2012 was a Windows 7 tablet. There wasn't many Windows
8 tablets yet, so I bought two of them. One I installed Windows 8.

Why wouuld anyone car about this?

Any who cares about Windows tablets of course. And a Windows desktop and a
Windows tablet are the same. Same OS, applications, keyboards, mice, etc.

If you're speaking of the current crop of Windows tablets, there is a
difference. Some run Windows RT which is not the same as a "regular"
version of Windows.

Yes I know and nobody considers them as real Windows tablets either.

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Kingston 120GB SSD - Thunderbird v24.4.0
Centrino Core2 Duo T7400 2.16 GHz - 4GB - Windows 8.1 Pro w/Media Center

On 7/28/2014 10:46 AM, Roderick Stewart wrote:
On Mon, 28 Jul 2014 08:15:26 -0400, Keith Nuttle
wrote:

In my case may touch screens do not work. Apparently there is something
in my body chemistry, that causes the touch screen not to detect my
fingers. Because of this it is repeat, repeat, repeat to get the
response I want.

Second people are forgetting carpal tunnel syndrome. While the wrists
are not as involved as they are with a mouse, holding your arms in the
unnatural position required to use a touch screens becomes uncomfortable
after using the screen for a period. if touch screens become more
common, this will be come a common problem.

Lastly I like my screen clean so I can see what is on it without
cleaning it every 10 minutes.

I couldn't agree more. Touch screens are definitely not for everybody,
and I can't think of anything I could do with one that couldn't be
done just as well with a keyboard and mouse. Smearing other people's
bogies across a sheet of glass has no appeal for me whatsoever.

Actually I can't think of anything either. But are tablets still useful?
You bet. Tablets can do lots of things just fine by themselves. And dock
one and you have a desktop machine. Best of both worlds really.

Ah fingerprints on a screen? Luckily I don't have that problem. But for
those that does, they have screen protectors that doesn't show fingerprints.

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Kingston 120GB SSD - Thunderbird v24.4.0
Centrino Core2 Duo T7400 2.16 GHz - 4GB - Windows 8.1 Pro w/Media Center

On 7/28/2014 11:47 AM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
On 7/28/2014 12:38 PM, Ken Blake, MVP wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jul 2014 23:23:02 -0400, ". . .winston"
wrote:

But desktops are still the norm for older people and especially
office work; and those number millions.

Agreed.

Currently true and should continue for some time but the number of
tablet-smart type devices brought into the workplace by employes has
already changed that ecosystem. The 1980 and later generations will
inevitable determine the future for both.


I like, have, and use both--the desktop when I'm home, the tablet when
I'm traveling. But I see the possibility of that changing in the
future; as tablets and tablets apps become better and better, they
might replace desktops in my home too.

Another significant draw back to current touch pads is the lack of
memory. My hobby is my learning about my family. That means hundreds of
images of probate records, wills, etc. Currently I have 7gb of data for
that hobby a lone. My "documents" folder has over 13 gb of data.

With most tablets on the market to day can not handle this amount of
data. Data no programs. Also there are some programs I use that are
not available on tables. Such as Family Tree Maker.

What makes you believe all tablets are limited to memory? They surely
are not. There are some very powerful tablets out there and Motion
Computing makes some of the best ones. Heck that is all they make are
tablets and have been since 2002 or something. They started from a bunch
of ex-Dell employees actually.

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Kingston 120GB SSD - Thunderbird v24.4.0
Centrino Core2 Duo T7400 2.16 GHz - 4GB - Windows 8.1 Pro w/Media Center

On 7/28/2014 4:29 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
On 7/28/2014 1:51 PM, Wolf K wrote:
On 2014-07-28 12:47 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
On 7/28/2014 12:38 PM, Ken Blake, MVP wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jul 2014 23:23:02 -0400, ". . .winston"
wrote:

But desktops are still the norm for older people and especially
office work; and those number millions.

Agreed.

Currently true and should continue for some time but the number of
tablet-smart type devices brought into the workplace by employes has
already changed that ecosystem. The 1980 and later generations will
inevitable determine the future for both.


I like, have, and use both--the desktop when I'm home, the tablet when
I'm traveling. But I see the possibility of that changing in the
future; as tablets and tablets apps become better and better, they
might replace desktops in my home too.

Another significant draw back to current touch pads is the lack of
memory. My hobby is my learning about my family. That means hundreds of
images of probate records, wills, etc. Currently I have 7gb of data for
that hobby a lone. My "documents" folder has over 13 gb of data.

With most tablets on the market to day can not handle this amount of
data. Data no programs. Also there are some programs I use that are
not available on tables. Such as Family Tree Maker.

Use an external drive via Bluetooth or wi-fi. If the tablet has a USB
port, use it to connect a (powered) hub and connect the external drive,
USB stick, or card reader for extra memory.

See my post on Surface tablets for more.

Question: What is the advantage of having a tablet that is about the
same size, an external drive, and the other items that you mentioned
when that is all in my laptop. My laptop has a 500gb disk and 4gb ram.
and occupies a space of about 15 X 10 x 1.5 inches.

Easy... you have a tablet, a laptop, and a desktop all in one tablet. A
desktop can't act like a laptop or a tablet. And a laptop can't act like
a tablet. But a tablet can act as all three.

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Kingston 120GB SSD - Thunderbird v24.4.0
Centrino Core2 Duo T7400 2.16 GHz - 4GB - Windows 8.1 Pro w/Media Center

In the last episode of , Keith Nuttle
said:

Another significant draw back to current touch pads is the lack of
memory. My hobby is my learning about my family. That means hundreds of
images of probate records, wills, etc. Currently I have 7gb of data for
that hobby a lone. My "documents" folder has over 13 gb of data.

With most tablets on the market to day can not handle this amount of
data. Data no programs. Also there are some programs I use that are
not available on tables. Such as Family Tree Maker.

My Microsoft Surface Pro 3 has 256GB of storage, plus a microSD slot
that can add a good chunk more. 512GB models are available.

If you need more than that, a tablet probably isn't for you.

--
#define QUESTION ((bb) || !(bb))
-- Shakespeare

On 7/29/2014 4:24 PM, BillW50 wrote:
On 7/29/2014 2:23 PM, mechanic wrote:
On Tue, 29 Jul 2014 10:43:59 -0700, Ken Blake, MVP wrote:

As far as I'm concerned, there are no advantages to laptops except
for their portability when you travel, and I always strongly
recommend against using a laptop at home.

Here we use mainly laptops, usually cheap professional grade ones
like Thinkpads that companies are replacing. Batteries are cheap and
easy to replace, if the machine dies just buy another for £100-£150.
Ebay always has plenty. This current laptop is a Dell Vostro
something-or-other with a great screen and keyboard, cost £120
including Win8 Pro. Not enough USB ports but who's complaining. We
used to like Asus eeePCs (901 etc.) but they are a bit out of date
with a 32 bit Atom processor. I don't strongly recommend anything,
no comebacks.

Buy cheap and buy often has been my motto for decades. No sense in
paying big bucks for the latest and greatest for most of us since when
you get it home, setup, and have everything working correctly, it is
already outdated. And in a year or two, it is worth about one tenth of
what you paid for it.


But yet you claim to own more than one Alienware laptop.

On 7/29/2014 9:16 AM, PAS wrote:
"Alias" wrote in message
...
Wolf K wrote:
On 2014-07-28 12:38 PM, Ken Blake, MVP wrote:
On Sun, 27 Jul 2014 23:23:02 -0400, ". . .winston"
wrote:

But desktops are still the norm for older people and especially
office work; and those number millions.

Agreed.

Currently true and should continue for some time but the number of
tablet-smart type devices brought into the workplace by employes has
already changed that ecosystem. The 1980 and later generations will
inevitable determine the future for both.


I like, have, and use both--the desktop when I'm home, the tablet when
I'm traveling. But I see the possibility of that changing in the
future; as tablets and tablets apps become better and better, they
might replace desktops in my home too.

My Surface Pro 2 128GB replaces the desktop while travelling. It can do
everything the desktop can do. It can connect automatically with pretty
well any current wi-fi device, and many of the older ones too (sometimes
a driver is needed). With the dock, it becomes desktop at home, with
both wi-fi and wired connections to external devices. I've added a 64GB
micro-SD card, which serves as the data-backup drive. I've noticed that
it shows my brother's smart TV, to which it connected automatically
while we were there. It's also a camera and a video recorder. Only
downside: it's a tad heavy. I've added Start8 and Modernmix so that the
GUI is desktop standard.

Now the Surface Pro 3 is out, a couple inches larger screen, about 30%
thinner and lighter, with an i7 CPU (instead of i5). Beautiful design,
too. I'm trying to persuade myself that I Really Really Need That. ;-)

Whatever, the Surface Pro 3 shows that you can have the power and
functionality of a desktop in a tablet. I expect even better versions of
this concept in future.

Have a good day.

IOW, they are turning tablets into desktops to succeed and the clueless
public is lapping it up and paying more. Can you replace the video card
with a new one? How about the power supply or hard drive? Or do you just
have to pony up some more bread for a new one?

It's more like replacing a laptop with a tablet. There are plenty of people
who use laptops at home. I'm the only one who uses a desktop at home,
everyone else uses a laptop. For some of us, a tablet or laptop cannot
replace a desktop. Gamers are n that group too. But I suspect that there
is a huge group of people who only use laptops and the move to a tablet
replacing them will happen.

Whoa! I am a gamer and I dropped all of my desktops in 2005 (they just
take up too much space) and switched over to laptops. And I guess you
haven't heard of of things like Alienware? Yes since then all of my
gaming laptops are Alienware laptops. Although they are insulted by
calling them laptops (even though they look like laptops). But they call
them as desktop replacements. Ok, they use desktop components and throw
them into a laptop housing and now they are desktop replacements instead
of the laptop. But if you are looking for long battery life, forgot it
as it isn't going to happen. As to do anything with them you really need
an AC line close by.

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Kingston 120GB SSD - Thunderbird v24.4.0
Centrino Core2 Duo T7400 2.16 GHz - 4GB - Windows 8.1 Pro w/Media Center

On 7/29/2014 4:40 PM, Ron wrote:
On 7/29/2014 4:24 PM, BillW50 wrote:
On 7/29/2014 2:23 PM, mechanic wrote:
On Tue, 29 Jul 2014 10:43:59 -0700, Ken Blake, MVP wrote:

As far as I'm concerned, there are no advantages to laptops except
for their portability when you travel, and I always strongly
recommend against using a laptop at home.

Here we use mainly laptops, usually cheap professional grade ones
like Thinkpads that companies are replacing. Batteries are cheap and
easy to replace, if the machine dies just buy another for £100-£150.
Ebay always has plenty. This current laptop is a Dell Vostro
something-or-other with a great screen and keyboard, cost £120
including Win8 Pro. Not enough USB ports but who's complaining. We
used to like Asus eeePCs (901 etc.) but they are a bit out of date
with a 32 bit Atom processor. I don't strongly recommend anything,
no comebacks.

Buy cheap and buy often has been my motto for decades. No sense in
paying big bucks for the latest and greatest for most of us since when
you get it home, setup, and have everything working correctly, it is
already outdated. And in a year or two, it is worth about one tenth of
what you paid for it.

But yet you claim to own more than one Alienware laptop.

Yes indeed. Once they are a few years old you can buy them at one tenth
of their original cost. Why pay thousands for an Alienware when a few
years later you can buy it for a few hundred bucks? ;-)

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Kingston 120GB SSD - Thunderbird v24.4.0
Centrino Core2 Duo T7400 2.16 GHz - 4GB - Windows 8.1 Pro w/Media Center

On Tue, 29 Jul 2014 16:31:56 -0500, BillW50 wrote:

Question: What is the advantage of having a tablet that is about the
same size, an external drive, and the other items that you mentioned
when that is all in my laptop. My laptop has a 500gb disk and 4gb ram.
and occupies a space of about 15 X 10 x 1.5 inches.

Easy... you have a tablet, a laptop, and a desktop all in one tablet. A
desktop can't act like a laptop or a tablet. And a laptop can't act like
a tablet. But a tablet can act as all three.

It'a a pointless compromise if you don't want all three.

Rod.

On 7/29/2014 4:57 PM, Roderick Stewart wrote:
On Tue, 29 Jul 2014 16:31:56 -0500, BillW50 wrote:

Question: What is the advantage of having a tablet that is about the
same size, an external drive, and the other items that you mentioned
when that is all in my laptop. My laptop has a 500gb disk and 4gb ram.
and occupies a space of about 15 X 10 x 1.5 inches.

Easy... you have a tablet, a laptop, and a desktop all in one tablet. A
desktop can't act like a laptop or a tablet. And a laptop can't act like
a tablet. But a tablet can act as all three.

It'a a pointless compromise if you don't want all three.

Why not? Ever watched Star Trek before? They all use tablets. If you
ever used pencil and paper before, it is just like that as far as
advantages, plus tons more.

Heck I was in the grocery store the other day and I pressed one button
on my smart watch to check my grocery list and an old guy who worked on
the produce section asked me, if I had my grocery list in my watch? I
was shocked that anybody even noticed. And I said yes, and it is a cell
phone too. His mouth dropped to the floor. He just couldn't believe my
watch could do all of that.

That is actually nothing, my tablets could do all of that plus whatever
a desktop can do too. And trust me when I say that if you had a powerful
tablet and docked it and used it as a desktop, you too would be using it
sometimes as a laptop and as a tablet. It is only natural and
unavoidable. :-)

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Kingston 120GB SSD - Thunderbird v24.4.0
Centrino Core2 Duo T7400 2.16 GHz - 4GB - Windows 8.1 Pro w/Media Center

On 7/29/2014 5:53 PM, BillW50 wrote:
On 7/29/2014 4:40 PM, Ron wrote:
On 7/29/2014 4:24 PM, BillW50 wrote:
On 7/29/2014 2:23 PM, mechanic wrote:
On Tue, 29 Jul 2014 10:43:59 -0700, Ken Blake, MVP wrote:

As far as I'm concerned, there are no advantages to laptops except
for their portability when you travel, and I always strongly
recommend against using a laptop at home.

Here we use mainly laptops, usually cheap professional grade ones
like Thinkpads that companies are replacing. Batteries are cheap and
easy to replace, if the machine dies just buy another for £100-£150.
Ebay always has plenty. This current laptop is a Dell Vostro
something-or-other with a great screen and keyboard, cost £120
including Win8 Pro. Not enough USB ports but who's complaining. We
used to like Asus eeePCs (901 etc.) but they are a bit out of date
with a 32 bit Atom processor. I don't strongly recommend anything,
no comebacks.

Buy cheap and buy often has been my motto for decades. No sense in
paying big bucks for the latest and greatest for most of us since when
you get it home, setup, and have everything working correctly, it is
already outdated. And in a year or two, it is worth about one tenth of
what you paid for it.

But yet you claim to own more than one Alienware laptop.

Yes indeed. Once they are a few years old you can buy them at one tenth
of their original cost. Why pay thousands for an Alienware when a few
years later you can buy it for a few hundred bucks? ;-)


No, you can't.