Why is Microsoft wasting time on this junk OS

nospam wrote:
In article , Bill
wrote:

My familiarity is based upon watching others, and what I learn when I
hear someone talking about it or when I read about it (which is
increasingly often!) At this point I don't use "Anything Apple", and I
fully intend to keep it that way.

in other words, your familiarity is *not* from direct experience, which
was my point.

with direct experience, you'd realize that a lot of the myths are just
that, myths.

From my in-direct experience, I've seen and heard all I need to know
about whether I wish to buy Apple products. I don't wish to support
computer-illiteracy. YMMV.

that makes zero sense.

Sort of like people who drive a car, but have no idea how it works.
When you take away knowledge from people, you may them rather dependent.
I think Apple likes that model; I don't. Besides for our disagreement
about the facts, our conflict in ideals is about as simple as that.
Personally, I build computers with very good components that last for
years, and to my chosen specifications. Apple seems to encourage it's
users to upgrade their hardware much more often, to say the least, and
and there customers don't get much choice. And it seems to discourage
repair in favor of replacement. By comparison, I've maintained my PCs
with little hardship, without a trip to the Apple Store--and I like it
that way, particular the last part. Go NewEgg.com! YMMV.

In article , Bill
wrote:

From my in-direct experience, I've seen and heard all I need to know
about whether I wish to buy Apple products. I don't wish to support
computer-illiteracy. YMMV.

that makes zero sense.

Sort of like people who drive a car, but have no idea how it works.

which is pretty much everyone who owns a car.

there is no need to understand how a car works internally just to go to
work, school or wherever.

however, nothing prevents someone from learning about how cars work,
how to repair them or even design them, if that's what they want.

When you take away knowledge from people, you may them rather dependent.
I think Apple likes that model; I don't.

you think wrong. apple does not like nor have that model and it's not
something they want either.

apple actually *encourages* people to learn about how things work
internally, if that's what they want.

Besides for our disagreement
about the facts, our conflict in ideals is about as simple as that.

you haven't presented any facts. just a bunch of myths that are easily
shown to be false.

Personally, I build computers with very good components that last for
years, and to my chosen specifications.

that's great, but you're in a minority.

just about everyone buys a pre-built system, particularly laptops,
tablets and phones, all of which greatly outsell desktops.

Apple seems to encourage it's
users to upgrade their hardware much more often, to say the least, and
and there customers don't get much choice. And it seems to discourage
repair in favor of replacement.

also false. apple goes well out of its way so that users can continue
to use the hardware they have as long as possible.

By comparison, I've maintained my PCs
with little hardship, without a trip to the Apple Store--and I like it
that way, particular the last part. Go NewEgg.com! YMMV.

that's great, except that there's not a lot to fix inside a laptop or
phone.

On 2020-06-30 8:22 p.m., Bill wrote:
nospam wrote:
In article , Bill
wrote:

My familiarity is based upon watching others, and what I learn when I
hear someone talking about it or when I read about it (which is
increasingly often!) At this point I don't use "Anything Apple", and I
fully intendÂ* to keep it that way.

in other words, your familiarity is *not* from direct experience, which
was my point.

with direct experience, you'd realize that a lot of the myths are just
that, myths.

Â* From my in-direct experience, I've seen and heard all I need to know
about whether I wish to buy Apple products.Â* I don't wish to support
computer-illiteracy. YMMV.

that makes zero sense.

Sort of like people who drive a car, but have no idea how it works.
When you take away knowledge from people, you may them rather dependent.
I think Apple likes that model; I don't.Â* Besides for our disagreement
about the facts, our conflict in ideals is about as simple as that.
Personally, I build computers with very good components that last for
years, and to my chosen specifications. Apple seems to encourage it's
users to upgrade their hardware much more often, to say the least, and
and there customers don't get much choice.Â* And it seems to discourage
repair in favor of replacement.Â* By comparison, I've maintained my PCs
with little hardship, without a trip to the Apple Store--and I like it
that way, particular the last part.Â* Go NewEgg.com!Â* YMMV.

Do you build your own cars?

On 2020-07-03, nospam wrote:
which is pretty much everyone who owns a car.

Speak for yourself. It's the ignorant ones who get ripped off at service
time because they don't know how anything works. "Sorry, sir/madam,
your blinker fluid is shot to hell and you better let us change out those
muffler bearings. Your turboencabulator is ready to go and should be
renewed as well, we can go with a rebuilt one to save a few bucks.
That'll be just $2,000 plus tax."

If course if you want to portray ignorance as being a good thing that seems
to be an odd position to take, but you are welcome to it.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roger Blake (Posts from Google Groups killfiled due to excess spam.)

The US Census, what info must you give? -- http://censusfacts.info
Don't talk to cops! -- http://www.DontTalkToCops.com
Badges don't grant extra rights -- http://www.CopBlock.org
The facts about Climate Change -- http://www.RealClimateScience.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On 2020-07-03 11:55 a.m., Roger Blake wrote:
On 2020-07-03, nospam wrote:
which is pretty much everyone who owns a car.

Speak for yourself. It's the ignorant ones who get ripped off at service
time because they don't know how anything works. "Sorry, sir/madam,
your blinker fluid is shot to hell and you better let us change out those
muffler bearings. Your turboencabulator is ready to go and should be
renewed as well, we can go with a rebuilt one to save a few bucks.
That'll be just $2,000 plus tax."

If course if you want to portray ignorance as being a good thing that seems
to be an odd position to take, but you are welcome to it.


What he is saying is that people want to buy things that just work

In article , Roger Blake
wrote:

which is pretty much everyone who owns a car.

Speak for yourself. It's the ignorant ones who get ripped off at service
time because they don't know how anything works. "Sorry, sir/madam,
your blinker fluid is shot to hell and you better let us change out those
muffler bearings. Your turboencabulator is ready to go and should be
renewed as well, we can go with a rebuilt one to save a few bucks.
That'll be just $2,000 plus tax."

i don't know what mechanics you go to, but nearly all of them are
honest.

If course if you want to portray ignorance as being a good thing that seems
to be an odd position to take, but you are welcome to it.

it has nothing to do with ignorance.

very few people repair their own vehicles anymore.

other than very simple repairs, it's no longer practical or economical,
even if someone knows how to do it *and* has the necessary tools, which
are often more than just a socket wrench set.

also, modern vehicles are *far* more reliable that older ones and don't
need anywhere near as many ongoing repairs and adjustments.

even simple stuff such as an oil change can sometimes be a major
ordeal. i know someone where access to the oil filter required removing
the front wheel. he used to do his own oil changes, but that was enough
hassle to where he chose to drop it off and let someone else deal with
it.

i've also seen the battery in the wheel well. batteries don't need to
be changed very often, thus the justification in putting it there, but
it does make changing the battery into a more involved task.

some cars with transverse mounted engines can be difficult to get to
half of the spark plugs. in some cases, it requires lifting the engine,
which is not something a weekend mechanic is going to want to do, let
alone have the equipment or time to do it.

many repairs require specialized equipment which an auto shop can
justify, but not someone who has to make a one-time repair, and in some
cases, that equipment is only available to dealers, not independent
repair shops.

Alan Baker wrote:
On 2020-06-30 8:22 p.m., Bill wrote:
nospam wrote:
In article , Bill
wrote:

My familiarity is based upon watching others, and what I learn when I
hear someone talking about it or when I read about it (which is
increasingly often!) At this point I don't use "Anything Apple",
and I
fully intendÂ* to keep it that way.

in other words, your familiarity is *not* from direct experience,
which
was my point.

with direct experience, you'd realize that a lot of the myths are just
that, myths.

Â* From my in-direct experience, I've seen and heard all I need to know
about whether I wish to buy Apple products.Â* I don't wish to support
computer-illiteracy. YMMV.

that makes zero sense.

Sort of like people who drive a car, but have no idea how it works.
When you take away knowledge from people, you may them rather dependent.
I think Apple likes that model; I don't.Â* Besides for our disagreement
about the facts, our conflict in ideals is about as simple as that.
Personally, I build computers with very good components that last for
years, and to my chosen specifications. Apple seems to encourage it's
users to upgrade their hardware much more often, to say the least, and
and there customers don't get much choice.Â* And it seems to discourage
repair in favor of replacement.Â* By comparison, I've maintained my PCs
with little hardship, without a trip to the Apple Store--and I like it
that way, particular the last part.Â* Go NewEgg.com!Â* YMMV.

Do you build your own cars?

I know a number of people who do. But the building side only appears to
make sense after significant fixed costs. OTOH, I took care of two
maintenance "repairs" this week for a relative. How about you?

Alan Baker wrote:
On 2020-07-03 11:55 a.m., Roger Blake wrote:

If course if you want to portray ignorance as being a good thing that
seems
to be an odd position to take, but you are welcome to it.


What he is saying is that people want to buy things that just work


I'll let you in on a little secret. You don't have to know everything a
mechanic does to fix your own car. You only need to know (or learn) how
to fix the one thing that needs fixing on YOUR CAR. And you can "choose
your battles". An example that comes to mind is the switch on my
glovebox...mine broke, and the dealer wanted $200 to put on a new one,
with 2 or 3 screws (I already had the old one off), and that was after I
returned in two weeks when the part arrived. I mentioned that I saw the
part new on Ebay for $40 and offered them $100, but they declined. So
the part arrived at my door in 3 days, and with a bit of reading online,
I installed the switch (transferring the key-mechanism from the old to
the new part was the only tricky part--and it was just that, it wasn't
time consuming).

As far, as things that "just work"--friction makes all mechanical things
break at some point. E.g. the transmission in my self-propelling
lawnmower. Replacing that part myself made it much easier to replace
the cable to wore out a few years later. If you always search for
someone else to solve your problems, then you remain a "suckling" (to
use my dad's word). Another thing he said is that "There's no problem
so small that you can't throw a lot of money at it...". I have observed
that the statement is more true than not.

As far as building or reworking on a PC desktop, a couple of
screwdrivers is most of the "tooling" that you need. Admittedly, I found
it desirable to take a hacksaw to the inside of my case the last time
around, to help reduce air resistance and thus it's audio volume (which
I found whiney). I wonder if that "mod" would void my warranty on a new
PC? : ) It is a Corsair case too, maybe $160, surprising me that it
possessed this "flaw". But everyone should (IMHO) own a hacksaw and a
couple of screwdrivers.

In short, taking care of your own stuff is a choice and a lifestyle.
This applies to basic plumbing, and many other things (like to put up a
new wall?). Try not to be a "suckling" any more than or any longer than
you have to! : ) I hope this is helpful!

On 2020-07-04 2:24 a.m., Bill wrote:
Alan Baker wrote:
On 2020-06-30 8:22 p.m., Bill wrote:
nospam wrote:
In article , Bill
wrote:

My familiarity is based upon watching others, and what I learn
when I
hear someone talking about it or when I read about it (which is
increasingly often!) At this point I don't use "Anything Apple",
and I
fully intendÂ* to keep it that way.

in other words, your familiarity is *not* from direct experience,
which
was my point.

with direct experience, you'd realize that a lot of the myths are
just
that, myths.

Â* From my in-direct experience, I've seen and heard all I need to know
about whether I wish to buy Apple products.Â* I don't wish to support
computer-illiteracy. YMMV.

that makes zero sense.

Sort of like people who drive a car, but have no idea how it works.
When you take away knowledge from people, you may them rather dependent.
I think Apple likes that model; I don't.Â* Besides for our
disagreement about the facts, our conflict in ideals is about as
simple as that. Personally, I build computers with very good
components that last for years, and to my chosen specifications.
Apple seems to encourage it's users to upgrade their hardware much
more often, to say the least, and and there customers don't get much
choice.Â* And it seems to discourage repair in favor of replacement.
By comparison, I've maintained my PCs with little hardship, without a
trip to the Apple Store--and I like it that way, particular the last
part.Â* Go NewEgg.com!Â* YMMV.

Do you build your own cars?

I know a number of people who do.

Really? What are the cars they are building?

But the building side only appears to
make sense after significant fixed costs.Â* OTOH, I took care of two
maintenance "repairs" this week for a relative. How about you?

I can do some vehicle repairs and I can do many computer repairs and
could even build one if I cared to. I don't care to.

Computers are a tool, and most people want their tools to work properly
and don't give a damn about understanding how they work much less how to
build one.

On 2020-07-04 4:12 a.m., Bill wrote:
Alan Baker wrote:
On 2020-07-03 11:55 a.m., Roger Blake wrote:

If course if you want to portray ignorance as being a good thing that
seems
to be an odd position to take, but you are welcome to it.


What he is saying is that people want to buy things that just work


I'll let you in on a little secret.Â* You don't have to know everything a
mechanic does to fix your own car.Â* You only need to know (or learn) how
to fix the one thing that needs fixing on YOUR CAR. And you can "choose
your battles".Â* An example that comes to mind is the switch on my
glovebox...mine broke, and the dealer wanted $200 to put on a new one,
with 2 or 3 screws (I already had the old one off), and that was after I
returned in two weeks when the part arrived.Â* I mentioned that I saw the
Â*part new on Ebay for $40 and offered them $100, but they declined. So
the part arrived at my door in 3 days, and with a bit of reading online,
I installed the switch (transferring the key-mechanism from the old to
the new part was the only tricky part--and it was just that, it wasn't
time consuming).

This is not a secret to me.


As far, as things that "just work"--friction makes all mechanical things
break at some point. E.g. the transmission in my self-propelling
lawnmower.Â* Replacing that part myself made it much easier to replace
the cable to wore out a few years later.Â* If you always search for
someone else to solve your problems, then you remain a "suckling" (to
use my dad's word).Â* Another thing he said is that "There's no problem
so small that you can't throw a lot of money at it...".Â* I have observed
that the statement is more true than not.

As far as building or reworking on a PC desktop, a couple of
screwdrivers is most of the "tooling" that you need. Admittedly, I found
it desirable to take a hacksaw to the inside of my case the last time
around, to help reduce air resistance and thus it's audio volume (which
I found whiney). I wonder if that "mod" would void my warranty on a new
PC? : )Â*Â* It is a Corsair case too, maybe $160, surprising me that it
possessed this "flaw".Â* But everyone should (IMHO) own a hacksaw and a
couple of screwdrivers.

In short, taking care of your own stuff is a choice and a lifestyle.
This applies to basic plumbing, and many other things (like to put up a
new wall?).Â* Try not to be a "suckling" any more than or any longer than
you have to!Â* : )Â* I hope this is helpful!
That's my point. It IS a lifestyle. Hence, pointing to the device as
being superior because it supports such a choice is nonsense.

Alan Baker wrote:
On 2020-07-04 4:12 a.m., Bill wrote:

In short, taking care of your own stuff is a choice and a lifestyle.
This applies to basic plumbing, and many other things (like to put up
a new wall?).Â* Try not to be a "suckling" any more than or any longer
than you have to!Â* : )Â* I hope this is helpful!

That's my point. It IS a lifestyle. Hence, pointing to the device as
being superior because it supports such a choice is nonsense.


If you want to be a "suckling" all of your days, then that is your
choice. Like you said. I see no reason to support computer-illiteracy,
in the "suckling sense". I'll spend my leftover money on other things
and try to encourage others to build and repair their own stuff (while
making the world "a better place" at the same time). YMMV.

Alan Baker wrote:
On 2020-07-04 2:24 a.m., Bill wrote:
Alan Baker wrote:
On 2020-06-30 8:22 p.m., Bill wrote:
nospam wrote:
In article , Bill
wrote:

My familiarity is based upon watching others, and what I learn
when I
hear someone talking about it or when I read about it (which is
increasingly often!) At this point I don't use "Anything Apple",
and I
fully intendÂ* to keep it that way.

in other words, your familiarity is *not* from direct experience,
which
was my point.

with direct experience, you'd realize that a lot of the myths are
just
that, myths.

Â* From my in-direct experience, I've seen and heard all I need to
know
about whether I wish to buy Apple products.Â* I don't wish to support
computer-illiteracy. YMMV.

that makes zero sense.

Sort of like people who drive a car, but have no idea how it works.
When you take away knowledge from people, you may them rather
dependent.
I think Apple likes that model; I don't.Â* Besides for our
disagreement about the facts, our conflict in ideals is about as
simple as that. Personally, I build computers with very good
components that last for years, and to my chosen specifications.
Apple seems to encourage it's users to upgrade their hardware much
more often, to say the least, and and there customers don't get much
choice.Â* And it seems to discourage repair in favor of replacement.
By comparison, I've maintained my PCs with little hardship, without
a trip to the Apple Store--and I like it that way, particular the
last part.Â* Go NewEgg.com!Â* YMMV.

Do you build your own cars?

I know a number of people who do.

Really? What are the cars they are building?

Before I answer here is a public forum. You sound like you don't
believe me. So I'll ask first, why do you wish to know (and then
perhaps I'll post a link).


But the building side only appears to make sense after significant
fixed costs.Â* OTOH, I took care of two maintenance "repairs" this week
for a relative. How about you?

I can do some vehicle repairs and I can do many computer repairs and
could even build one if I cared to. I don't care to.

Computers are a tool, and most people want their tools to work properly
and don't give a damn about understanding how they work much less how to
build one.

I don't think of apathy as such a wonderful virtue as you do. But that
is obviously subjective. I suspect you are much younger than me.
I earned a graduate degree in computer science while I was working full
time, so we apparently approach life much differently. You sound like
you might be a "(video) gamer"?

On 2020-07-05 3:24 a.m., Bill wrote:
Alan Baker wrote:
On 2020-07-04 2:24 a.m., Bill wrote:
Alan Baker wrote:
On 2020-06-30 8:22 p.m., Bill wrote:
nospam wrote:
In article , Bill
wrote:

My familiarity is based upon watching others, and what I learn
when I
hear someone talking about it or when I read about it (which is
increasingly often!) At this point I don't use "Anything
Apple", and I
fully intendÂ* to keep it that way.

in other words, your familiarity is *not* from direct
experience, which
was my point.

with direct experience, you'd realize that a lot of the myths
are just
that, myths.

Â* From my in-direct experience, I've seen and heard all I need to
know
about whether I wish to buy Apple products.Â* I don't wish to support
computer-illiteracy. YMMV.

that makes zero sense.

Sort of like people who drive a car, but have no idea how it works.
When you take away knowledge from people, you may them rather
dependent.
I think Apple likes that model; I don't.Â* Besides for our
disagreement about the facts, our conflict in ideals is about as
simple as that. Personally, I build computers with very good
components that last for years, and to my chosen specifications.
Apple seems to encourage it's users to upgrade their hardware much
more often, to say the least, and and there customers don't get
much choice.Â* And it seems to discourage repair in favor of
replacement. By comparison, I've maintained my PCs with little
hardship, without a trip to the Apple Store--and I like it that
way, particular the last part.Â* Go NewEgg.com!Â* YMMV.

Do you build your own cars?

I know a number of people who do.

Really? What are the cars they are building?

Before I answer here is a public forum.Â* You sound like you don't
believe me.Â* So I'll ask first, why do you wish to know (and then
perhaps I'll post a link).

So you claim to know "a number of people" who actually build their own
cars...

....but you don't know a single thing about what kind of cars they are
building?

Riiiiiight.



But the building side only appears to make sense after significant
fixed costs.Â* OTOH, I took care of two maintenance "repairs" this
week for a relative. How about you?

I can do some vehicle repairs and I can do many computer repairs and
could even build one if I cared to. I don't care to.

Computers are a tool, and most people want their tools to work
properly and don't give a damn about understanding how they work much
less how to build one.

I don't think of apathy as such a wonderful virtue as you do.Â* But that
is obviously subjective. I suspect you are much younger than me.
I earned a graduate degree in computer science while I was working full
time, so we apparently approach life much differently. You sound like
you might be a "(video) gamer"?

Tell me:

Is it apathetic if you buy a refrigerator, but don't know how to repair it?

How about a wris****ch?

I could go on a long time, but I suspect you get my point.

On 2020-07-05 3:13 a.m., Bill wrote:
Alan Baker wrote:
On 2020-07-04 4:12 a.m., Bill wrote:

In short, taking care of your own stuff is a choice and a lifestyle.
This applies to basic plumbing, and many other things (like to put up
a new wall?).Â* Try not to be a "suckling" any more than or any longer
than you have to!Â* : )Â* I hope this is helpful!

That's my point. It IS a lifestyle. Hence, pointing to the device as
being superior because it supports such a choice is nonsense.


If you want to be a "suckling" all of your days, then that is your
choice.Â* Like you said.Â* I see no reason to support computer-illiteracy,
in the "suckling sense". I'll spend my leftover money on other things
and try to encourage others to build and repair their own stuff (while
making the world "a better place" at the same time).Â* YMMV.

And when you're stove breaks down, do you fix that yourself? Do you
expect that everyone who buys a stove should have the kind of knowledge
of them that you apparently expect of people who buy computers?

Your car undoubtedly has a computer in it.

I'll bet you can't repair that, or even have ever thought about wanting to.

Does that make you a suckling?

Alan Baker wrote:
On 2020-07-05 3:24 a.m., Bill wrote:

Tell me:

Is it apathetic if you buy a refrigerator, but don't know how to repair it?

You have refrigeration/cooling not only in your home, but in your car too.
I'd say if you don't already know how it works, then you haven't been
challenging yourself very much. I think you would do well to understand
the basic principles of cooling systems whether you choose to own a
refrigerator or not. What are you going to do when you move away from
home? I replaced the main motor in my home air conditioner when it went
out. Could you do that without risk of electrocuting yourself? You
would save $550 if you could. Still not worth it to you?