XP Pro SP2, Vista & Vienna -- A Useful Progression?

"HEMI-Powered" wrote in message
...
But, does yours have the obligatory chrome plated coffee cans on
redneck dual exhausts?

Nope

Didn't know that Nitros, besides having unique sheet metal and
trim from the NEW Jeep Liberty, also have a 5" longer W/B for
added rear leg room.

I didn't know that either. I thought it was the same frame.


Gots ta ask ya, are you an aligned Mopar buyer, i.e.,
employee/retiree, supplier of the company, or just like the cars
and perhaps know people who can get you a good employee discount?

I wish. When I buy a vehicle I find a fleet dealer and go straight to the
fleet manager. Then I hand him/her a printout of exactly what I want @ $500
over invoice. I had to threaten "carsdirect.com" with the Nitro. She
quickly changed her tune.

My wife's friend just bought a Tacoma after three days of rain. He walked
away with a few free upgrades and a 100,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty.
I told him he was full of "crap". Then he showed me the paper work. That
lucky SOB.

Would like to know the good, the bad, and the ugly in your likes,
dislikes, successes, failures, etc.

To start, I'm 31.

First car - 84' (?) camaro berlinetta, fully loaded. This was a luxurious
version of the Z28. I beat the hell out of this car. I took it off road.
I busted the tranny mounts 3 times flying over a set of train tracks that
were on top of a hill. You know, the whole Dukes of Hazard move My first
taste of power.

Second car - Pontiac Grand Am, 4 cylinder, fully loaded. What a piece of
CRAP!!!!! I was MUCH nicer on this car. After all it was brand new and I
was paying full price. I didn't want used again and this was all I could
afford when I came back from service (US Army). I would have been much
better off with used. The engine threw a rod at 35,000. It wasn't me! Too
many people said if it was my driving then I would have blown through the
tranny long before the engine. It killed 3 alternators. It ate front tires
like mad (front wheel drive). The ratio of tire to brake pad didn't match
up. The tires were going way to fast to make sense to anyone. The water
pump gave out twice which required engine removal! The fuel regulator quit
which was inside the tank. Third gear gave out at around 85,000.

To top it all off I found a site that had thousands of the same exact
complaints. Except the engine. After all that, I was at fault for two
things:

1. I didn't buy the extended warranty.
2. It was determined the 4 cylinder engine was not capable of handling that
car. Most of my problems would have been non existent had I gotten the 6
cylinder.

They used that engine for two years and stopped. Gee, does that tell you
anything?

Third car - Suburban. I didn't like it. This one was fully loaded and then
some. Quick version - My wife's employer of which I do computer work leases
vehicles every 2-3 years. He loads then up then dumps them. Well, he
chopped the frame to lower the rear 4 inches. To match the front. I think
they lowered the front a little as well. This destroyed the vehicle. So I
got it dirt cheap from Enterprise. I traded it in. Like I said about Chevy
trucks which was in reference to this Suburban and the Silverado, "wishy
washy".

Fourth car - F-150. I love it! But, I hate the new style. I just can't
get used to it and I wont get one. If I did go with a ford truck again it
would be a 250 or 350 but then I lose all race ability.

Wife - Justy, we barley got this car to the dealership to trade it in for a
Kia Rio. Kept that for a few years then traded it in for the HHR. Nice
car. Fully loaded, it was racy. But it lacked luxury and while it was ok
for her, it was way too small for me. I found out quick that if the bottom
of your knees (knee pit?) are in the air and not resting on the seat then
you exert a LOT more energy. Trips for me where horrible. Enter the Nitro.
Very pleased. It's no good for off road, but it's very luxurious,
comfortable and fun to drive.

The family has classics and I drive them from time to time. I don't care
too much for the really old cars. I'm just not comfortable in them. Nor do
I feel safe. However, I love the new renditions of them.

It's been said that
brand loyalty in the U.S. is an obsolete concept, as people buy

For cars right? Not OS's

I see all the flame threads in different forums about Ford gangs and Chevy
gangs. I used to love to tell them I love my F-150 and HHR. That would
usually shut them up. I rarely see Dodge people act like children.

Today, D. Spencer Hines made these interesting comments ...

Ahhhh, so you are NOT a pilot and just like colorful, bar-talk
expressions.

Got It...

I didn't say I didn't understand what you meant....

You got that wrong too. g

Since you've reverted to top posting which is increasingly
incoherent, I cannot even begin to comment on or correct your
misunderstandings and misconceptions, but I'm coming around -
banking left turn - to Ken's opinion, you're a troll that
successfully hooked me for some time with near-normal discussion
modes. No more. Begone, ye accursed!

Veni, Vidi, Calcitravi Asinum

"HEMI-Powered" wrote in message
...

...happy campers have chimed in many times
saying how much they liked Vista and how well it runs on
systems I would think are below FAA minimums, so, go figure.

Are you PILOT -- or just like colorful expressions? g

For somebody who banties [sic] about $10 words, you can't see
a metaphor here? No?, it should be immediately obvious and
the proof is left to the reader, to wit: below FAA minimums
means too little CPU, too little memory to fly, have to go on
instruments, like a wall clock to monitor speed of your work.


--
HP, aka Jerry

Today, Justin made these interesting comments ...

Didn't know that Nitros, besides having unique sheet metal
and trim from the NEW Jeep Liberty, also have a 5" longer W/B
for added rear leg room.

I didn't know that either. I thought it was the same frame.

I didn't either, as I've not yet seen any 2008 Liberties or the
all-new Jeep Patriot at a dealer. It was the Dodge dealer where I
was asking questions about a replacement for my Charger that told
me that. BTW, I'd have to look, I'm not sure if a Nitro/Liberty
is a body-on-frame or unibody. The bigger Jeeps were framed the
last time I crawled under one, but it is tougher for me to
maintain awareness since I retired. As I commented on earlier,
Justin, my lines of communication literally dried up as I no
longer see people in meetings, on the phone, or in other offices,
like the Detroit separate engineering center for Dodge truck and
all of Jeep. So, my knowledge of the newer cars is limited to
what I can glean from public records and informed speculation
based on where I think the company is going as it announces new
vehicles or the news "leaks". As to the last, almost all Chrysler
leaks really aren't that at all, they are intentional tip-offs to
the media, sometimes "off the record", sometimes with a non-
disclosure cut-off date and some just plain "here's something
your readers will want to know". It's a very inexpensive way to
get PR press without "we don't talk about future products"
getting in the way or trying to buy ad space for a car nobody
even knows about yet.

I wish. When I buy a vehicle I find a fleet dealer and go
straight to the fleet manager. Then I hand him/her a printout
of exactly what I want @ $500 over invoice. I had to threaten
"carsdirect.com" with the Nitro. She quickly changed her
tune.

Ya got me again! How are you able to take advantage of fleet
deals? Are you saying you go to the bigger web sites like the one
you mention, who advertise very close to invoice deals?

I get 6 so-called Friends discounts to give to prospective
buyers/lessees every year, and now two Employee Choice control
numbers which is the same as my employee purchase. The former
probably isn't much better than you're getting by whacking on
these web folk, but the latter is definitely a good deal. But, I
use those judiciously because my number is severely limited, so I
want to only give them to people who really want to buy a car.
Iffn ya gets serious later, give me a private holler and we'll
talk - iffn ya is also interest. Sorry for being a salesman, but
you seem more than the average person to me.

My wife's friend just bought a Tacoma after three days of
rain. He walked away with a few free upgrades and a 100,000
mile bumper to bumper warranty. I told him he was full of
"crap". Then he showed me the paper work. That lucky SOB.

It is literally impossible for consumers to keep up with the
various monetary and non-monetary incentives manufacturers are
handing out. And, I know for a fact that you can be standing in
the back lot at a dealer looking at 3 identical looking vehicles,
and literally get 3 different prices from the sales droid. The
reason, generally, is that the dates these 3 vehicles were built
had different incentives, some that require the dealer to pony up
some bread, and they're still good. So, when people these days
try to get the best possible deal, they need to not only haunt
the web, but go dealer to dealer looking for exactly what they
want on the lot. Dealer inventory can be searched on-line, of
course, but not the incentives du jour.

Would like to know the good, the bad, and the ugly in your
likes, dislikes, successes, failures, etc.

To start, I'm 31.

God Damn younger not yet even able to shave! grin I just turned
the big 6-0 last Tuesday, Happy Birthday to me!

First car - 84' (?) camaro berlinetta, fully loaded. This was
a luxurious version of the Z28. I beat the hell out of this
car. I took it off road. I busted the tranny mounts 3 times
flying over a set of train tracks that were on top of a hill.
You know, the whole Dukes of Hazard move My first taste of
power.

Great cars. I generally like Pontiac Firebirds better but both
were excellent. I shut down my like of the Firebirds, though,
when the weight of the plastic add-on crap got overwhelming near
the end.

Second car - Pontiac Grand Am, 4 cylinder, fully loaded. What
a piece of CRAP!!!!! I was MUCH nicer on this car. After all
it was brand new and I was paying full price. I didn't want
used again and this was all I could afford when I came back
from service (US Army). I would have been much better off
with used. The engine threw a rod at 35,000. It wasn't me!
Too many people said if it was my driving then I would have
blown through the tranny long before the engine. It killed 3
alternators. It ate front tires like mad (front wheel drive).
The ratio of tire to brake pad didn't match up. The tires
were going way to fast to make sense to anyone. The water
pump gave out twice which required engine removal! The fuel
regulator quit which was inside the tank. Third gear gave out
at around 85,000.

From the little I know, and it really is little, early Grand-Ams
were POS, but were eventually fixed to some degree. I've talked
about this before, but when exactly you decide to buy a car
within its life cycle is everything. That is NOT to say people
should wait 3, 6, 12 months, just be informed. The dealer sales
droid obviously won't tell you, even if they know. The service
manager can give you his experience and tell you what TSBs he's
received, and you can keep your ear to the ground, which
apparently this time you didn't hear the bad guys coming.Sorry.

To top it all off I found a site that had thousands of the
same exact complaints. Except the engine. After all that, I
was at fault for two things:

1. I didn't buy the extended warranty.
2. It was determined the 4 cylinder engine was not capable of
handling that car. Most of my problems would have been non
existent had I gotten the 6 cylinder.

I drove for a decade through the early 4 banger days starting
with Omni/Horizon then the K-Cars. The best I could say back them
was "adequate", but more often "dismal". Chrysler "fixed" that
with engineering improvements, but mainly with turbos and later
with V-6 engines. When I can, I always opt for the V-6 because it
was far smoother and peppier. Except for my Charger, which is a
dealer lease because Chrylser wouldn't let me have one on our
company car lease program, the only car I've owned since 1978 was
a 2002 Chrysler Prowler. So, I've never had anything of high
mileage/long time-in-service so never even investigated extended
warrantees. I take it that you drive yours into the ground or you
tend to throw a bit of money to ensure that non-warranty
catastrophic failures are covered?

They used that engine for two years and stopped. Gee, does
that tell you anything?

Third car - Suburban. I didn't like it. This one was fully
loaded and then some. Quick version - My wife's employer of
which I do computer work leases vehicles every 2-3 years. He
loads then up then dumps them. Well, he chopped the frame to
lower the rear 4 inches. To match the front. I think they
lowered the front a little as well. This destroyed the
vehicle. So I got it dirt cheap from Enterprise. I traded it
in. Like I said about Chevy trucks which was in reference to
this Suburban and the Silverado, "wishy washy".

I understand the basic concept of how and why the long WB
Suburban was created, but cannot fathom it today. Yes, I
understand why folk buy these big vehicles but it makes me just
shake my head to see a small woman behind the wheel of a 19.5'
vehicle weighing over 7,000 pounds.

Fourth car - F-150. I love it! But, I hate the new style. I
just can't get used to it and I wont get one. If I did go
with a ford truck again it would be a 250 or 350 but then I
lose all race ability.

Most people do love the F-150, which goes to it being numba one
for decades. Styling comes and goes and nobody always likes new
ones, but that's life.

Wife - Justy, we barley got this car to the dealership to
trade it in for a Kia Rio. Kept that for a few years then
traded it in for the HHR. Nice car. Fully loaded, it was
racy. But it lacked luxury and while it was ok for her, it
was way too small for me. I found out quick that if the
bottom of your knees (knee pit?) are in the air and not
resting on the seat then you exert a LOT more energy. Trips
for me where horrible. Enter the Nitro. Very pleased. It's
no good for off road, but it's very luxurious, comfortable and
fun to drive.

I like HHRs. They look nice, have lots of people and cargo space,
seem to be reliable. I don't see all that many on the road,
though, so I wonder about its sales record.

The family has classics and I drive them from time to time. I
don't care too much for the really old cars. I'm just not
comfortable in them. Nor do I feel safe. However, I love the
new renditions of them.

About 5 years ago, I looked around for a Mopar muscle car. Not a
trailer queen and not a restoration project. I wanted a dailer
driver. I couldn't find one at even prices over $20K in 2002,
much less that I could count on for not requiring daily
maintenance, so I gave up.

It's been said that
brand loyalty in the U.S. is an obsolete concept, as people
buy

For cars right? Not OS's

Cars, yes. O/S brand loyalty is more the result of VERY limited
choices and NOT by owner's really being loyal. Basically, if you
want a home computer, you're limited to a Mac or a standard PC.
The former is the former. The latter in turn limites you
basically to some incantation of Windows or Linux. My nephew is
in love with Linux because he just likes playing with it. About
once a year, I ask him if it really is ready for prime time on
the desktop, meaning with all the legacy software and hardware
really run and is it really bug-free enough with a competitive
GUI to Windows, and he keeps saying "almost, any day now". So,
absent real choice, what we have here is an oligopoly, and nearly
a monopoly, and occasionally a Hobson's Choice. That is not to
disparage any O/S or any company, just a realist's view of the
world.

I see all the flame threads in different forums about Ford
gangs and Chevy gangs. I used to love to tell them I love my
F-150 and HHR. That would usually shut them up. I rarely see
Dodge people act like children.

You think that's bad? Go to some camera NGs and watch the Canon
vs Nikon folk go at it! I call them "religious wars"
metaphorically like the various extremist cults around. When I
was looking for a DSLR - I chose a Canon Rebel XT 15 months ago
and love it - I basically heard two things "anyone who buys a
Canon is really stupid" and "oh, yeah? anyone who buys a Nikon
has a mother who wears combat boots!" You get the idea. Facts
quickly go away in these places and emotion takes over. I don't
at all mind strong feelings of likes or dislikes, but I very much
prefer to know WHY, which is why I asked you.

BTW, I took a trip to Jellystone Park in 1975. Lots of good old
boys driving pickups with the obligatory gun rack on the rear
window. I would guess 55-60% F-150, the rest Chevys. Almost no
GMC and absolutely zero Dodges. But, the 1992 big-truck look
Dodge Ram changed all that. It'll never be a serious contenter to
a F-150 or Silverado, but at least it is now competitive. Can't
comment as to our more mature audience in NGs. grin

Again, iffn ya wants to talk privately, I'll repost my public E-
mail. Have a great Sunday!

--
HP, aka Jerry

"HEMI-Powered" wrote in message
...
Today, Justin made these interesting comments ...

Well, at the very least aren't the cores recyclable?

I would think so. The EPA pretty much forces recylability on
things like that, although older TVs and most, maybe all computer
equipment is still verboten because if the metals used and toxic
material inside components, which is mainly smoke, the kind
where, when it blow up billowing smoke, someone says "where was
all that smoke before? grin

But, increasingly expensive landfill space and necessary
segration of garbage according to its rate of decay and toxicity
is being a real problem in most regions. In my state, the
Canadians cut a deal decades ago with then Gov. John Engler to
dump their garbage in our fills, smart guys them.

That was Toronto that cut the deal, no other municipality in Ontario wanted
their garbage so they went over the border to our friendly nieghbours. Now
we just have hundreds of garbage trucks running the highways and polluting
the air.
--
Ray Rogers

Justin wrote:
"TOM7601" wrote in message
...

The descriptions I read here sounds exactly like a drug addict
explaining how he got hooked but found he needed a hotter "fix" when
his original drug of choice didn't do it for him any more.

Very entertaining... :))

Hum...having both street and prescription ex-drug addicts in the family,
I don't agree. Nor would I find that entertaining

Oh, well...
--
Tom - Vista, CA

HEMI-Powered wrote:

Snips...

Well, since we're talking about the genre of priii, how do owners
dispose of the old batteries, in the ground water of a land-fill?

From the Toyota site:

"Hybrid-Related Component Coverage: Prius' hybrid-related
components, including the HV battery, battery control
module, hybrid control module and inverter with converter,
are covered for 8 years/100,000 miles."
--
Tom - Vista, CA

Hilarious!

DSH
---------------------------

"HEMI-Powered" wrote in message
...

The bigger Jeeps were framed the
last time I crawled under one, but it is tougher for me to
maintain awareness since I retired. As I commented on earlier,
Justin, my lines of communication literally dried up as I no
longer see people in meetings, on the phone, or in other offices,
like the Detroit separate engineering center for Dodge truck and
all of Jeep.

[...]

Yes, all his liquid lines of communication literally dried up -- so he has
become a serial abuser and constant prattler and babbler on USENET. We
understand perfectly.

To start, I'm 31.

God Damn younger not yet even able to shave! grin I just turned
the big 6-0 last Tuesday, Happy Birthday to me!

So, he was forced into early retirement at Chrysler sometime in his 50's --
because they were sick and tired of him there too -- and he was
non-productive.

Got It!

Again, iffn ya wants to talk privately, I'll repost my public E-
mail. Have a great Sunday!

He's climbing the walls!

His wife probably wants him to get up off his can and get out of the house.

The man is absolutely DESPERATE for communication with other car nerds, so
he turns to Microsoft USENET newsgroups -- and posts wailing laments.

Hilarious!

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

Veni, Vidi, Calcitravi Asinum

Today, Ray Rogers made these interesting comments ...


"HEMI-Powered" wrote in message
...
Today, Justin made these interesting comments ...

Well, at the very least aren't the cores recyclable?

I would think so. The EPA pretty much forces recylability on
things like that, although older TVs and most, maybe all
computer equipment is still verboten because if the metals
used and toxic material inside components, which is mainly
smoke, the kind where, when it blow up billowing smoke,
someone says "where was all that smoke before? grin

But, increasingly expensive landfill space and necessary
segration of garbage according to its rate of decay and
toxicity is being a real problem in most regions. In my
state, the Canadians cut a deal decades ago with then Gov.
John Engler to dump their garbage in our fills, smart guys
them.

That was Toronto that cut the deal, no other municipality in
Ontario wanted their garbage so they went over the border to
our friendly nieghbours. Now we just have hundreds of garbage
trucks running the highways and polluting the air.
--
I don't care who did it in Canada, I only care that MY governor
made a REALLY BAD decision that won't get fixed for 5 or 6 years.
If Canada, all or part, has garbage, then find a place for it in
YOUR country. On a per capita per square mile of geographic area,
Canada is a fraction of the United States and I do not, not, NOT
want their garbage, which has been shown to have toxic material
hidden in the trucks, placed in my landfills. I have enough
problem finding landfills that are safe for my garbage. 'Nuff
said.

I am "friendly" to Canada only in the sense that we enjoy the
longest unprotected frontier of any two nations in the world, but
that's about as far as it goes. There is hardly an issue I can
think of from domestic policy, healthcare, the military, jobs,
unions, general politics that affect me, nothing that I even
remotely agree with. That's fine. It is their country. BUT, when
what they do impinges (sp.) on me, I object. Strongly.

--
HP, aka Jerry

Today, TOM7601 made these interesting comments ...

HEMI-Powered wrote:

Snips...

Well, since we're talking about the genre of priii, how do
owners dispose of the old batteries, in the ground water of a
land-fill?

From the Toyota site:

"Hybrid-Related Component Coverage: Prius' hybrid-related
components, including the HV battery, battery control
module, hybrid control module and inverter with converter,
are covered for 8 years/100,000 miles."

Being covered for 8/100 is an EPA requirement and NOT a
prediction or warranty of any kind for its actual life. ALL
emissions components of ALL vehicles imported into the U.S. or
built here MUST carry at least this much. So, what this means is
that if a state wants to do annual or semi-annual safety or
emissions inspections or certifications, and a Prius fails,
Toyota will fix it for free, IF the owner hasn't invalidated the
warranty some way, e.g. fuel or abusive treatment.

I stand by my assertion: NO hybrid breaks even from a fuel cost
standpoint in any reasonable time period, and I believe that it
is NEVER, if all factors are considered including the ding to
your wallet for the hybrid thingy in the first place. If you have
opposing views, factually, I will certainly listen. Until then,
my view is that a Prius or Honda or Ford or GM or the coming
Chrysler hybrids CANNOT show an economic advantage without gas
getting into the $4+ range AND the car is driven for in excess of
20,000 miles/year, or as much as 30,000, as has been show many
times in studies.

--
HP, aka Jerry

HEMI-Powered wrote:

You are insane or demented.

I've posted this opinion a few times, that DSH is mentally ill.
Not a nice thing to say I know, but reading his posts & the way he
trolls & tries to wind people up, it's the only conclusion I can come to.

Today, Richard made these interesting comments ...

HEMI-Powered wrote:

You are insane or demented.

I've posted this opinion a few times, that DSH is mentally
ill. Not a nice thing to say I know, but reading his posts &
the way he trolls & tries to wind people up, it's the only
conclusion I can come to.

Richard, I don't know what to day. I've corresponded with him in
this an another thread for days. He seemed perfectly rational,
albeit morbidly hung up on MS providing exact details as to what
was neat in Vista and why he'd want to upgrade. That's fine, but
it was like a broken record. What sent the thing south yesterday
was when he inexplicitly starting dinging Ken Blake, increasing
vindictively. I asked him to stop, which resulted in an odyssey
of comments to me, mild personal stuff, then going down the
negative road into attacks. It was then we had a short war of
words. That was the first inkling I had that something was wrong.
I can deal with folks who are passionate and do OT stuff, Hell, I
do it myself! But, when a really long, but useful thread
suddently turns into name calling, I have to wonder.

He really didn't wind me up until last night and this morning.
Ken Blake, his hatred-du-jour, apparently has plonked DSH and has
chosen not to get into the debate as he reads those of us still
replying. I said I have no one in my killfile and that is true.
I'd rather just ignore people, but if something catches my eye,
I'd rather see the full OP post than catch it on the rebound with
other people opinions and snips confusing me.

I'll just cool my jets, so will you and the others and soon this
will all be forgotten. Until the next time. If you want to see
some wackos, go to a.b.p.military or a.b.p.autos. There's one
certifiable nutbag in each that is totally irrational. The only
reason people reply to these 2 guys is to prevent casual lurkers
from being deceived. I've learned my lesson here, das ist das
ende.

--
HP, aka Jerry

"HEMI-Powered" wrote in message
...
Ya got me again! How are you able to take advantage of fleet
deals? Are you saying you go to the bigger web sites like the one
you mention, who advertise very close to invoice deals?

Any one can. Just get in touch with the fleet manager. First I called my
local dodge dealer and asked for the nearest fleet dealer. Then I called
them up. However, I must note this only seems to work with American
companies. My $500 over invoice offer was laughed at by Toyota and Hyundai.
I did not expect it to work at ALL on the brand new Nitro or any brand new
car for that mater. It worked with the HHR but I slipped a little on the
trade in. Mostly because it was paid for. Oops

I do still drool over the charger! I keep looking at it and whenever I see
one on the road my heart sinks a little. I'm guessing I know what'll happen



I get 6 so-called Friends discounts to give to prospective
buyers/lessees every year, and now two Employee Choice control
numbers which is the same as my employee purchase. The former
probably isn't much better than you're getting by whacking on
these web folk, but the latter is definitely a good deal. But, I
use those judiciously because my number is severely limited, so I
want to only give them to people who really want to buy a car.
Iffn ya gets serious later, give me a private holler and we'll
talk - iffn ya is also interest. Sorry for being a salesman, but
you seem more than the average person to me.

That is a sweet offer. Thank you. You're trying to drive that charger nail
even further aren't you?

It is literally impossible for consumers to keep up with the
various monetary and non-monetary incentives manufacturers are
handing out. And, I know for a fact that you can be standing in
the back lot at a dealer looking at 3 identical looking vehicles,
and literally get 3 different prices from the sales droid. The
reason, generally, is that the dates these 3 vehicles were built
had different incentives, some that require the dealer to pony up
some bread, and they're still good. So, when people these days
try to get the best possible deal, they need to not only haunt
the web, but go dealer to dealer looking for exactly what they
want on the lot. Dealer inventory can be searched on-line, of
course, but not the incentives du jour.

Don't they also get more antsy the longer the vehicle stays on the lot?


God Damn younger not yet even able to shave! grin I just turned
the big 6-0 last Tuesday, Happy Birthday to me!

Happy birthday!


I take it that you drive yours into the ground or you
tend to throw a bit of money to ensure that non-warranty
catastrophic failures are covered?

Warranties are no longer a option for me. They are a requirement. Once the
warranty is up then I'll keep a car until I feel I'm coming to a repair bill
that would be best used for a down payment.


I understand the basic concept of how and why the long WB
Suburban was created, but cannot fathom it today. Yes, I
understand why folk buy these big vehicles but it makes me just
shake my head to see a small woman behind the wheel of a 19.5'
vehicle weighing over 7,000 pounds.

Very true! For us, we wanted to bring people to the....fun places...with us
in one vehicle and not have to bring two or three.


I like HHRs. They look nice, have lots of people and cargo space,
seem to be reliable. I don't see all that many on the road,
though, so I wonder about its sales record.

There's a ton around here.

Cars, yes. O/S brand loyalty is more the result of VERY limited
choices and NOT by owner's really being loyal. Basically, if you

That makes sense.

You think that's bad? Go to some camera NGs and watch the Canon
vs Nikon folk go at it! I call them "religious wars"
metaphorically like the various extremist cults around. When I
was looking for a DSLR - I chose a Canon Rebel XT 15 months ago
and love it - I basically heard two things "anyone who buys a
Canon is really stupid" and "oh, yeah? anyone who buys a Nikon
has a mother who wears combat boots!" You get the idea. Facts
quickly go away in these places and emotion takes over. I don't
at all mind strong feelings of likes or dislikes, but I very much
prefer to know WHY, which is why I asked you.

Absolutely! I don't care about the brand. I only care about my dollar
going to things that will benefit me.


Again, iffn ya wants to talk privately, I'll repost my public E-
mail. Have a great Sunday!

I think I can find it

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=D.+Spencer+Hines



"Richard" wrote in message
news
HEMI-Powered wrote:

You are insane or demented.

I've posted this opinion a few times, that DSH is mentally ill.
Not a nice thing to say I know, but reading his posts & the way he trolls
& tries to wind people up, it's the only conclusion I can come to.

On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 15:44:55 -0700, "Justin" wrote:

"HEMI-Powered" wrote in message
. ..
Ya got me again! How are you able to take advantage of fleet
deals? Are you saying you go to the bigger web sites like the one
you mention, who advertise very close to invoice deals?

Any one can. Just get in touch with the fleet manager.

You're trying to tell us you got a "fleet" price buying ONE car?

First I call ed my local dodge dealer and asked for the nearest fleet dealer. Then I called
them up. However, I must note this only seems to work with American
companies. My $500 over invoice offer was laughed at by Toyota and Hyundai.

The "invoice" price isn't what the dealer pays. Dealers get all kinds
of incentives from the manufacturer that lowers his net wholesale
price. The so-called invoice price is just another marketing gimic to
dupe people like you that don't know any better. It isn't close to
what the dealer actually pays. His cost is much less. Translation: You
were taken.

Warranties are no longer a option for me. They are a requirement. Once the
warranty is up then I'll keep a car until I feel I'm coming to a repair bill
that would be best used for a down payment.

You really babble a lot of nonsense. You're thinking the dealer you
trade the car in at isn't going to give the trade-in a good going over
and reduce the price he'll give you if you blew a transmission, the
car needs break work or whatever? For your further education if you
trade in a car the salesman is sizing you up and will decrease the
value of the trade in perportion to what he "gives" you as a "deal" on
the price of the new car to end up with the profit he figures you as
the pigeon is willing to pay. You even wonder why those that sell cars
in America are called DEALERS? Duh!

I bet you really believe when the salesmen walks away and tells you
he's got to check with his manager if can lower the price the couple
hundred bucks you think you were smart enough to 'talk him down' to is
really doing that. Actually he's probably bragging to another salesman
at the coffee machine saying, hey a got a real dumb kid that's all hot
and bothered to pay $1,200 more for the same make and model I just
sold this morning. LOL!

HEMI-Powered wrote:
Today, TOM7601 made these interesting comments ...

HEMI-Powered wrote:

Snips...

Well, since we're talking about the genre of priii, how do
owners dispose of the old batteries, in the ground water of a
land-fill?
From the Toyota site:

"Hybrid-Related Component Coverage: Prius' hybrid-related
components, including the HV battery, battery control
module, hybrid control module and inverter with converter,
are covered for 8 years/100,000 miles."

Being covered for 8/100 is an EPA requirement and NOT a
prediction or warranty of any kind for its actual life. ALL
emissions components of ALL vehicles imported into the U.S. or
built here MUST carry at least this much. So, what this means is
that if a state wants to do annual or semi-annual safety or
emissions inspections or certifications, and a Prius fails,
Toyota will fix it for free, IF the owner hasn't invalidated the
warranty some way, e.g. fuel or abusive treatment.

I stand by my assertion: NO hybrid breaks even from a fuel cost
standpoint in any reasonable time period, and I believe that it
is NEVER, if all factors are considered including the ding to
your wallet for the hybrid thingy in the first place. If you have
opposing views, factually, I will certainly listen. Until then,
my view is that a Prius or Honda or Ford or GM or the coming
Chrysler hybrids CANNOT show an economic advantage without gas
getting into the $4+ range AND the car is driven for in excess of
20,000 miles/year, or as much as 30,000, as has been show many
times in studies.

You're probably right, no one *NEEDS* a hybrid automobile any more than
anyone *NEEDS* a Hemi powered car. We buy what we want and if it feeds
our perception of our environmental consciousness, or our driving
skills, then so be it. Different strokes for different folks.

Of course, I may feel different when I get my $800/month child support
paid off this coming September and can trade my 1988 Toyota pickup that
I bought new off the lot. It's 19 years old and still going strong, but
I would like something a little newer. I kind of have my eye on a Jeep
Wrangler X 4X4, not because I need it to commute; So-Cal doesn't have a
big snow problem, but because after almost 20 years, I feel like I want
up upgrade.

Anyway, with the desert and mountains less than an hour away, I can make
use of the 4X4... :))
--
Tom - Vista, CA