If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Rate Thread | Display Modes |
|
#1
|
|||
|
|||
RAM on ASUS mobo
There are four RAM slots; two blue, two grey. It came with one 8GB
module in a blue slot. I added a second 8GB module in the other blue slot; all ok, memory checked by Windows 10. So, I got two new modules exactly the same as the second one, and put them in the remaining slots. And cram! I took those two out and booted ok. I put the first new one in one grey slot, and still cram! Same with just the second one in that slot. This from the Mobo User Manual; Memory configurations You may install 1GB, 2GB, 4GB, and 8GB unbuffered ECC, non-ECC DDR3 DIMMs into the DIMM sockets. • Memory module with memory frequency higher than 2133 MHz and its corresponding timing or the loaded DRAM OC Profile is not the JEDEC memory standard. The stability and compatibility of these memory modules depend on the CPU’s capabilities and other installed devices. • You may install varying memory sizes in Channel A and Channel B. The system maps the total size of the lower-sized channel for the dual-channel configuration. Any excess memory from the higher-sized channel is then mapped for single-channel operation. • We recommend that you install the memory modules from the blue slots for better overclocking capability. • Always install DIMMs with the same CAS latency. For optimal compatibility, we recommend that you install memory modules of the same version or date code (D/C) from the same vendor. Check with the retailer to get the correct mem Help, help, help! Ed |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
RAM on ASUS mobo
Ed Cryer wrote:
Help, help, help! part numbers of M/B and DIMMs? |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
RAM on ASUS mobo
Ed Cryer wrote:
There are four RAM slots; two blue, two grey. It came with one 8GB module in a blue slot. I added a second 8GB module in the other blue slot; all ok, memory checked by Windows 10. So, I got two new modules exactly the same as the second one, and put them in the remaining slots. And cram! I took those two out and booted ok. I put the first new one in one grey slot, and still cram! Same with just the second one in that slot. This from the Mobo User Manual; Memory configurations You may install 1GB, 2GB, 4GB, and 8GB unbuffered ECC, non-ECC DDR3 DIMMs into the DIMM sockets. • Memory module with memory frequency higher than 2133 MHz and its corresponding timing or the loaded DRAM OC Profile is not the JEDEC memory standard. The stability and compatibility of these memory modules depend on the CPU’s capabilities and other installed devices. • You may install varying memory sizes in Channel A and Channel B. The system maps the total size of the lower-sized channel for the dual-channel configuration. Any excess memory from the higher-sized channel is then mapped for single-channel operation. • We recommend that you install the memory modules from the blue slots for better overclocking capability. • Always install DIMMs with the same CAS latency. For optimal compatibility, we recommend that you install memory modules of the same version or date code (D/C) from the same vendor. Check with the retailer to get the correct mem Help, help, help! Ed The BIOS reads the SPD (serial presence detect) of the memory modules to get their timings. When there are mixed modules, the BIOS has to guess which timings to use. The module with the fastest timings cannot be used for the module with the slowest timings: you cannot run the module faster than it is rated (unless you want to get into overclocking -- and then hope a mismatched set of modules will reliably overclock the same). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_presence_detect It is possible the BIOS is configured to use SPD from the memory modules or that you or someone used manual settings in the BIOS. Unless you are into overclocking (doesn't look like it), the BIOS should be configured to use SPD to set the memory timings. Within the same bank, the slowest module gets used. Typically the first bank's timings get used for all banks. When you put the same type modules in the other banks, could be they are slower than the original module. The BIOS probably uses the timings from the first module in the first bank. If it is faster than your new ones then its shorter timings get used on the slower modules. The result is the timings used for the newer but slower modules are too short/tight. You need to move the original module into the 2nd bank and put the slowest modules in the first bank. Then the BIOS will used the timings for the slower modules in the first bank, even for the faster module in the 2nd bank. There is also the problem in architecture differences. Blocking can be different in different modules. It has been too long since I got into this but I remember some unscrupulous sellers were selling low-speed memory at higher capacity that used a different architecture. The result was addressing was affected differently across the mismatched modules. You also must not mix ECC with non-ECC memory. We have no idea if the original module is dual- or quad-channel and what you got for the new modules, or what your mobo supports since you never identified it. Although the manual says you can install varying sizes of memory modules, addressing is the same across all banks. If you add a large and small module, you get the capacity in the large module only what the small module can deliver. You waste you money on the larger module(s). We have no idea what mobo you have. "Asus mobo" doesn't specify the model number. We have no idea of the brand and model for each of the 3 new memory modules you bought or the brand and model of the 1 original memory module to know if those modules are compatible. You don't just slap any memory into the slots for it to work. Since you bought 3 that were the same, you need to buy 1 more that is the same to replace the original one. You do not need to buy matched sets of memory modules but all should not only all have the same timings but also the same architecture. Easiest is to buy all modules of the same brand and model. |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
RAM on ASUS mobo
VanguardLH wrote:
Ed Cryer wrote: There are four RAM slots; two blue, two grey. It came with one 8GB module in a blue slot. I added a second 8GB module in the other blue slot; all ok, memory checked by Windows 10. So, I got two new modules exactly the same as the second one, and put them in the remaining slots. And cram! I took those two out and booted ok. I put the first new one in one grey slot, and still cram! Same with just the second one in that slot. This from the Mobo User Manual; Memory configurations You may install 1GB, 2GB, 4GB, and 8GB unbuffered ECC, non-ECC DDR3 DIMMs into the DIMM sockets. • Memory module with memory frequency higher than 2133 MHz and its corresponding timing or the loaded DRAM OC Profile is not the JEDEC memory standard. The stability and compatibility of these memory modules depend on the CPU’s capabilities and other installed devices. • You may install varying memory sizes in Channel A and Channel B. The system maps the total size of the lower-sized channel for the dual-channel configuration. Any excess memory from the higher-sized channel is then mapped for single-channel operation. • We recommend that you install the memory modules from the blue slots for better overclocking capability. • Always install DIMMs with the same CAS latency. For optimal compatibility, we recommend that you install memory modules of the same version or date code (D/C) from the same vendor. Check with the retailer to get the correct mem Help, help, help! Ed The BIOS reads the SPD (serial presence detect) of the memory modules to get their timings. When there are mixed modules, the BIOS has to guess which timings to use. The module with the fastest timings cannot be used for the module with the slowest timings: you cannot run the module faster than it is rated (unless you want to get into overclocking -- and then hope a mismatched set of modules will reliably overclock the same). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_presence_detect It is possible the BIOS is configured to use SPD from the memory modules or that you or someone used manual settings in the BIOS. Unless you are into overclocking (doesn't look like it), the BIOS should be configured to use SPD to set the memory timings. Within the same bank, the slowest module gets used. Typically the first bank's timings get used for all banks. When you put the same type modules in the other banks, could be they are slower than the original module. The BIOS probably uses the timings from the first module in the first bank. If it is faster than your new ones then its shorter timings get used on the slower modules. The result is the timings used for the newer but slower modules are too short/tight. You need to move the original module into the 2nd bank and put the slowest modules in the first bank. Then the BIOS will used the timings for the slower modules in the first bank, even for the faster module in the 2nd bank. There is also the problem in architecture differences. Blocking can be different in different modules. It has been too long since I got into this but I remember some unscrupulous sellers were selling low-speed memory at higher capacity that used a different architecture. The result was addressing was affected differently across the mismatched modules. You also must not mix ECC with non-ECC memory. We have no idea if the original module is dual- or quad-channel and what you got for the new modules, or what your mobo supports since you never identified it. Although the manual says you can install varying sizes of memory modules, addressing is the same across all banks. If you add a large and small module, you get the capacity in the large module only what the small module can deliver. You waste you money on the larger module(s). We have no idea what mobo you have. "Asus mobo" doesn't specify the model number. We have no idea of the brand and model for each of the 3 new memory modules you bought or the brand and model of the 1 original memory module to know if those modules are compatible. You don't just slap any memory into the slots for it to work. Since you bought 3 that were the same, you need to buy 1 more that is the same to replace the original one. You do not need to buy matched sets of memory modules but all should not only all have the same timings but also the same architecture. Easiest is to buy all modules of the same brand and model. The original module has a slightly lower MHz figure than the 3 new ones. The new ones are all Corsair, 8GB, 1600 MHz; the original one slightly less. How do I recognise "bank" and position it with the 4 slots I see? The mobo is ASUS M5 A97 R2.0 Ed |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
RAM on ASUS mobo
Ed Cryer wrote:
The new ones are all Corsair, 8GB, 1600 MHz; the original one slightly less. Slightly? 1333MHz? 1066MHz? |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
RAM on ASUS mobo
Andy Burns wrote:
Ed Cryer wrote: The new ones are all Corsair, 8GB, 1600 MHz; the original one slightly less. Slightly? 1333MHz? 1066MHz? I was using the utility SIW, and trusting its reading for the original stick. But I've decided to trust my eyes instead. And what I've found is that the original one is exactly the same stick as the three new ones I've bought; all like this; https://goo.gl/VtDetJ including the "Valueselect" sticker. The four are all the same; all 1600MHz, DDR3, 8GB. Ed PS. If the original one isn't what's on the label, and it's really of a lower MHz, and (as VanguardLH says) that's setting the bar-level, then why did the first stick I added work so well? |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
RAM on ASUS mobo
Ed Cryer wrote:
The four are all the same; all 1600MHz, DDR3, 8GB. Well, theoretically they are fine for that MB. https://www.corsair.com/uk/en/Categories/Products/Memory/Mainstream-Memory/Corsair-Memory-%E2%80%94-8GB-DDR3-Memory/p/CMV8GX3M1A1600C11 Try a pair of the new ones in the blue slots at the tested speed of 1333MHz 9-9-9-24 if that works then all four at that speed. if that works, try two and finally all four of them at the XMS speed of 1600MHz 11-11-11-30 I've not used an AMD CPU for years, so I'll take Paul's word for it that a quad SIMM configuration is tricky. I have no issues with 4x8GB on "workstation" class intel motherboards. |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
RAM on ASUS mobo
Ed Cryer wrote:
There are four RAM slots; two blue, two grey. It came with one 8GB module in a blue slot. I added a second 8GB module in the other blue slot; all ok, memory checked by Windows 10. So, I got two new modules exactly the same as the second one, and put them in the remaining slots. And cram! I took those two out and booted ok. I put the first new one in one grey slot, and still cram! Same with just the second one in that slot. This from the Mobo User Manual; Memory configurations You may install 1GB, 2GB, 4GB, and 8GB unbuffered ECC, non-ECC DDR3 DIMMs into the DIMM sockets. • Memory module with memory frequency higher than 2133 MHz and its corresponding timing or the loaded DRAM OC Profile is not the JEDEC memory standard. The stability and compatibility of these memory modules depend on the CPU’s capabilities and other installed devices. • You may install varying memory sizes in Channel A and Channel B. The system maps the total size of the lower-sized channel for the dual-channel configuration. Any excess memory from the higher-sized channel is then mapped for single-channel operation. • We recommend that you install the memory modules from the blue slots for better overclocking capability. • Always install DIMMs with the same CAS latency. For optimal compatibility, we recommend that you install memory modules of the same version or date code (D/C) from the same vendor. Check with the retailer to get the correct mem Help, help, help! Ed You're using a full load of DIMMs on an AMD processor ? The setup will need to be tuned. Are you up to the challenge ? You will need hip waders, rubber gloves, a Scott airpack, a mosquito netting, and so on :-) I just know you will enjoy this. On my Intel system, I dropped my DDR3-2400 DIMMs to DDR3-1866, rather than waste the time testing inordinately large amounts of RAM for hours at a time, until I could "discover" the "right" settings. You see, on my system, with one DIMM per channel, the motherboard has "XPM", where a couple extra fields in the SPD on the DIMM, tells the motherboard exactly how much voltage boost to use. And has extended timing info. When the motherboard is half full, the "Enable XMP" setting does everything for you. And it works... on the very first try. The XMP method breaks down on full DIMM setups. It isn't as reliable. If you want to use full sets of DIMMs, you must be prepared to slip on your hip waders. ******* In the old days... The DIMM would have "safe" settings in the SPD. This is intended to allow the system to come up, without any custom settings. This solves the chicken versus egg problem - the DIMM has only conservative settings stored inside, so you can "always get in". So it won't crash in the BIOS right away. Say I buy DDR3-2400 DIMMs. Then the SPD contains DDR3-1866 timings with a relaxed (higher value) of CAS. Next, I "read the value off the tin". On the outside of the DIMM package, it might say "DDR3-2400 8-8-8-24 2T 1.65V". The order of the parameters is standardized. The first number is tCAS. The 2T on the end is the Command Rate, and is the length of time the address is enabled on a heavily loaded bus (two cycles for maximum tSetup margin). OK, so I'm sitting in the BIOS with the settings at "Full Auto", which was the default when the motherboard was new. Now, I want to set the motherboard to AI Overclock Tuner [Manual] Memory Frequency [DDR3-1600] === use tin speed of slowest RAM DRAM Timing Control === can use "Auto" here - if it crashes, you must back off by using higher number in the items below. tCAS 6 Bump to tin value of "8" === higher value equals tRCD 6 Bump to tin value of "8" more relaxed. Use tRP 6 Bump to tin value of "8" "Auto" for any setting tRC 18 Bump to tin value of "24" where you are unsure. DRAM Command Rate 2T === entry is further down the list DRAM Voltage [1.65V] === use value off tin, or consult web page NB Voltage [Auto] === is bumped sometimes, if other methods aren't giving good results. This is the IMC voltage inside the CPU, the part that drives the CPU DIMM channel pad drivers. Anyway, that's a capsule summary. ******* While testing new RAM (and not trusting it yet): 1) Disconnect all hard drives, with power off. 2) Prepare a copy of memtest86+ . Test #5 can be selected manually from the menu, once it boots, and Test #5 gives a quicker test that you aren't too far off the mark on settings. http://www.memtest.org # 50% down the page, are the downloads 3) If throwing errors, bump the numbers. For example 8-8-8-24 becomes 9-9-9-27. Or in some cases you could use 8-9-8-27 as bumping tRCD alone is sometimes enough. The numbers are most sensitive, starting on the left. Bumping up CAS is the last thing you want to do. The one on the end, the 27, isn't nearly as performance affecting. Once memtest86+ is passing, and you can do the entire test suite error free for a pass or two... you're not done yet. Boot a Linux LiveCD and run Prime95 from mersenne.org/download https://www.mersenne.org/download/ Linux: 64-bit 29.4b8 2018-02-09 6.0MB p95v294b8.linux64.tar.gz The Linux one is likely static, and any library dependencies are built-in. This means you can run the "prime95" executable, without any Package Manager mumbo-jumbo. Prime95 opens a thread per core. You can set the amount of memory to test. The program does math with a known answer. It can detect a round-off error (leading you to suspect bad RAM). Run that for four hours without error. If Prime95 fails, back to the BIOS you go... The program will ask you "Join GIMPS" and you reply with "just testing", as you're using this program to test that your computer is solid, and you're not yet "contributing" to the search for Mersenne primes. ******* Once Prime95 is passing (4 hours+), power down, reconnect the Windows disk and boot. Note that, after all this fine procedure, I had one user who *still* managed to have a Windows corruption at shutdown. You should have a backup image of the Windows boot drive, just in case the unthinkable happens. ******* If you're not up to this, any computer store tech support can do this for you. Do not trust the computer store staff. Connect a hard drive with a new copy of Windows, with *none* of your personal files on it. The Windows disk provided, has nothing to do with the veracity of the RAM setup - once they've set up the RAM properly, you can swap in the real Windows disk later. The reason for this precaution, is some computer stores *blindly* reformat any hard drive they find inside the computer. I've encountered all sorts of horror stories about this. *Don't* leave drives containing data of any value inside the machine, when you head off to "Geek Squad" or whatever the UK equivalent is. Paul |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | Rate This Thread |
|
|