Thunderbird to Outlook.com

On Sun, 4 May 2014 15:15:07 -0700, "Gene E. Bloch"
wrote:

On Sun, 4 May 2014 03:22:54 +0000 (UTC), Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:

I would like to try Outlook.com but am having difficulty understanding
the difference between it and Outlook

The former is a web site, the latter is a locally-installed program. (A
pox on Microsoft for using the same name for different things.)

If they didn't do that, they wouldn't be Microsoft, in my somewhat
jaundiced opinion.



LOL! My opinion is equally jaundiced with yours.

Microsoft does some things well, but when it comes to nomenclature,
they are terrible. It's as if they are working hard to confuse people.

Ken Springer wrote:
On 5/4/14 1:35 PM, Paul wrote:
Ken Springer wrote:
Good morning, Paul,

On 5/4/14 4:31 AM, Paul wrote:


"Process Monitor"
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/s...rnals/bb896645

Ya know... Try as I might... Just doesn't seem to work on this
Mac! LOL


Every system has something. The tools aren't going to be
as good as Process Monitor, but they exist. MacOSX has
some Unix origins, so Unix tool names are a starting
point for my search.

snip

OH, man, Paul, I'm so sorry you went to all that work! That line was
meant as pure humor, nothing more.

On a Mac, it's called the Activity Monitor.

To tell the truth, I've no interest in that kind of troubleshooting
anymore. I used to. But now I tell people I've evolved into the
perfect Mac owner. I just want the damned thing to work w/ no problems.
And, add to that, be able to do what I want to do. No longer
interested in being anyone's beta tester. :-)

While doing the steps you mentioned may lead me to why it "hangs",
giving me a spinning beach ball (spinning hour glass or "not responding"
for Windows) which goes away eventually after a few seconds, it wouldn't
fix most of my list of issues.

Some of them a

1. Somewhere in your message, insert a smiley (HTML text). Now, try to
type a space. Doesn't work here. You have to add spaces, then
backspace a few spaces, insert smiley, then go to the end of the spaces
you added in order to keep typing.

2. Change the color of your text. Move the cursor away from that
point, then go back. If you expect to continue to type in the changed
color, forget it. Long standing and known issue.

3. Your cursor is at the end of your text. You press the Left Arrow
expecting to go back one character space. But no, you'll find your
cursor at the end of the line, two rows up. Intermittent.

4. Grab the Lightning Calendar tab, drag it outside of the TB window.
New window has tabs for your email/newsgroup accounts and the Calendar
tab. Close the new window. In the original window, open the calendar.
There is no name on the tab.

5. TB will occasionally throw away the contents of a mailbox/folder.
Others have mentioned this.

6. A long time ago, TB used to mark identical messages that were
crossposted in newsgroups as read in all groups when it was read in one
group. It was broken a long time ago, still not fixed.

I could give you about a dozen more, some I've written down, others I
haven't. I just did a Repair Folder on this group about a week ago.
When all said and done, the folder pane said there were 0 unread
messages. In the message pane, it indicated 3 unread messages. And, in
the collapsed threaded view, all headers were underlined indicating an
unread message even though there were no unread messages. Most of that
doesn't happen to any newsgroup except this one.

Probably have 10-12 more things like that. :-)

Someone reading this will be setting there saying to themselves "Doesn't
happen to me." Frankly, I don't care what is working for them, since
the odds are their setup isn't identical to mine. And as I've mentioned
here, , I've done
the standard troubleshooting steps, and I'm not doing it anymore. :-)
I've tons of better things to do.

cameo is right, here...
Mozilla no longer
has any paid staff working on TB. That was discussed in the Mozilla
groups at least a couple years ago, I think.

So some of them are HTML composition bugs. To use colored text,
that suggests you're doing HTML. That's something I don't use here,
meaning I've missed an entire class of bugs.

Seamonkey has a Composition tool, and for the little I've
used it, I didn't see any misbehavior. The code won't be the
same, but if they wanted a place to compose HTML emails,
they would already have that code base on a Mozilla server.

With Google paying the bills at Mozilla (major source of
funding), only things that help Google snoop will get
funding that way. And with the software projects being as
big as they are (bloated), how could you ever hope to
make progress with volunteers ?

Reading a bugtracker one day, there was a conversation amongst
four developers, as to what the problem might be in something
they were working on. Only one of the developers knew the
architecture well enough, to propose a possible root cause.
And the reason for that, is constant changes, and new ways of
doing things, mean the staff just can't keep up with it all.
The interactions. They add a new thing (like Gloda),
and things that were barely hanging together, start to
break.

We had a situation like that at work - one developer
became "architecture God", because nobody had the
common sense to train up a few of them. The poor guy
was constantly exhausted, from explaining details to
the other staff all the time. That's what happens when
your project is unmanageably big, and only one poor guy
has absorbed it all.

I don't know what the answer is. If Thunderbird didn't
have HTML capability at all, guys like you wouldn't use
it (eliminating the customer base), but on the other
hand, the thing would be a lot more manageable. It's
basically an email/newsreader, that carries around
all the baggage from the (parallel) browser product.

Paul

Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote, On 5/4/2014 2:04 PM:
...winston wrote:

Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote, On 5/4/2014 7:02 AM:
Marv wrote:
but want to be able to convert all existing address book,stored email.
etc.

Oh, one other point I was thinking about but forgot to type. Though you
don't say, apparently you are currently using RoadRunner cable for your
email service ). If you "switch" from that
account to Microsoft's Outlook.com web services, you will have to get a
new email address - - *if* it isn't already
taken.

The overall worth of doing that may depend on how many friends, family,
business associates you will have to get to update to your new email
address. You would/should operate both services for a significant time
period during your transition.

Not necessary, the rr account can be registered as a MSFT account. All
third part registered email accounts now (unlike in the past) have full
services including mail once setup properly.

I cannot think of any good reason why I would want to give my RoadRunner
passwords to Microsoft, nor would I want to allow Microsoft to snoop on my
email.

That's always a personal choice, but not relevant...registering a 3rd
party email account does not require providing the 3rd party password, a
MSFT account password is necessary to create the registered MSFT account.
The MSFT account performs the tasks.

i.e. and as noted before, no need to get a new email address.



--
...winston
msft mvp consumer apps

On 5/4/14 6:39 PM, Paul wrote:
Ken Springer wrote:
On 5/4/14 1:35 PM, Paul wrote:
Ken Springer wrote:
Good morning, Paul,

On 5/4/14 4:31 AM, Paul wrote:


"Process Monitor"
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/s...rnals/bb896645

Ya know... Try as I might... Just doesn't seem to work on this
Mac! LOL


Every system has something. The tools aren't going to be
as good as Process Monitor, but they exist. MacOSX has
some Unix origins, so Unix tool names are a starting
point for my search.

snip

OH, man, Paul, I'm so sorry you went to all that work! That line was
meant as pure humor, nothing more.

On a Mac, it's called the Activity Monitor.

To tell the truth, I've no interest in that kind of troubleshooting
anymore. I used to. But now I tell people I've evolved into the
perfect Mac owner. I just want the damned thing to work w/ no problems.
And, add to that, be able to do what I want to do. No longer
interested in being anyone's beta tester. :-)

While doing the steps you mentioned may lead me to why it "hangs",
giving me a spinning beach ball (spinning hour glass or "not responding"
for Windows) which goes away eventually after a few seconds, it wouldn't
fix most of my list of issues.

Some of them a

1. Somewhere in your message, insert a smiley (HTML text). Now, try to
type a space. Doesn't work here. You have to add spaces, then
backspace a few spaces, insert smiley, then go to the end of the spaces
you added in order to keep typing.

2. Change the color of your text. Move the cursor away from that
point, then go back. If you expect to continue to type in the changed
color, forget it. Long standing and known issue.

3. Your cursor is at the end of your text. You press the Left Arrow
expecting to go back one character space. But no, you'll find your
cursor at the end of the line, two rows up. Intermittent.

4. Grab the Lightning Calendar tab, drag it outside of the TB window.
New window has tabs for your email/newsgroup accounts and the Calendar
tab. Close the new window. In the original window, open the calendar.
There is no name on the tab.

5. TB will occasionally throw away the contents of a mailbox/folder.
Others have mentioned this.

6. A long time ago, TB used to mark identical messages that were
crossposted in newsgroups as read in all groups when it was read in one
group. It was broken a long time ago, still not fixed.

I could give you about a dozen more, some I've written down, others I
haven't. I just did a Repair Folder on this group about a week ago.
When all said and done, the folder pane said there were 0 unread
messages. In the message pane, it indicated 3 unread messages. And, in
the collapsed threaded view, all headers were underlined indicating an
unread message even though there were no unread messages. Most of that
doesn't happen to any newsgroup except this one.

Probably have 10-12 more things like that. :-)

Someone reading this will be setting there saying to themselves "Doesn't
happen to me." Frankly, I don't care what is working for them, since
the odds are their setup isn't identical to mine. And as I've mentioned
here, , I've done
the standard troubleshooting steps, and I'm not doing it anymore. :-)
I've tons of better things to do.

cameo is right, here...
Mozilla no longer
has any paid staff working on TB. That was discussed in the Mozilla
groups at least a couple years ago, I think.

So some of them are HTML composition bugs. To use colored text,
that suggests you're doing HTML. That's something I don't use here,
meaning I've missed an entire class of bugs.

Correct, HTML email. That's the most common thing these days, and the
majority of people use it since so many people do web mail. And they
don't know the difference. :-(

To use text email, to me, is like driving that older car because you
don't like the issues that may crop up with the newer technology of
contemporary cars. But OTOH, I am driving a 1995 vehicle, I don't see a
newer vehicle that offers what I'd look for in a vehicle. Not to
mention the exorbitant cost. LOL

Seamonkey has a Composition tool, and for the little I've
used it, I didn't see any misbehavior. The code won't be the
same, but if they wanted a place to compose HTML emails,
they would already have that code base on a Mozilla server.

From what I understand, there is some shared code.

With Google paying the bills at Mozilla (major source of
funding), only things that help Google snoop will get
funding that way. And with the software projects being as
big as they are (bloated), how could you ever hope to
make progress with volunteers ?

I think the same perspective applies to Firefox. I've just installed
8.1 (may have mentioned that) but I won't be installing FF. Going to go
with Maxthon to start out. May switch to that on this Mac.

Reading a bugtracker one day, there was a conversation amongst
four developers, as to what the problem might be in something
they were working on. Only one of the developers knew the
architecture well enough, to propose a possible root cause.
And the reason for that, is constant changes, and new ways of
doing things, mean the staff just can't keep up with it all.
The interactions. They add a new thing (like Gloda),
and things that were barely hanging together, start to
break.

We had a situation like that at work - one developer
became "architecture God", because nobody had the
common sense to train up a few of them. The poor guy
was constantly exhausted, from explaining details to
the other staff all the time. That's what happens when
your project is unmanageably big, and only one poor guy
has absorbed it all.

I don't know what the answer is. If Thunderbird didn't
have HTML capability at all, guys like you wouldn't use
it (eliminating the customer base), but on the other
hand, the thing would be a lot more manageable. It's
basically an email/newsreader, that carries around
all the baggage from the (parallel) browser product.

HTML is the "writing on the wall". It's evolution. And I think part of
the reason for Usenet usage decline is the resistance to some evolution,
coupled with the lack of getting the word out about it's advantages over
forums. But some forums now have a threaded view, so the advantage of
the Usenet for that subject is lessened.


--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 25.0
Thunderbird 24.3.0
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"

Hi, Ken.

One of the worst naming problems, I think, is the "backwards" use of the
terms "System Partition" and "Boot Volume". My understanding is that
Microsoft didn't actually invent those terms and their counterintuitive
application, but simply inherited long-standing practice. Perhaps you and
others who have been involved in computers longer than I have can confirm,
explain - or deny that understanding.

And "Outlook.com" might be the worst recent example. :( My opinion is
jaundiced, too.

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX

Microsoft Windows MVP (2002-2010)
Windows Live Mail 2012 (Build 16.4.3528.0331) in Win8.1 Pro with Media
Center


"Ken Blake, MVP" wrote in message
...

On Sun, 4 May 2014 15:15:07 -0700, "Gene E. Bloch"
wrote:

On Sun, 4 May 2014 03:22:54 +0000 (UTC), Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:

I would like to try Outlook.com but am having difficulty understanding
the difference between it and Outlook

The former is a web site, the latter is a locally-installed program. (A
pox on Microsoft for using the same name for different things.)

If they didn't do that, they wouldn't be Microsoft, in my somewhat
jaundiced opinion.



LOL! My opinion is equally jaundiced with yours.

Microsoft does some things well, but when it comes to nomenclature,
they are terrible. It's as if they are working hard to confuse people.

cameo wrote:

BTW, Eternal.September news server does not seem to carry the
mozilla.support.thunderbird newsgroup. Did you see it in the Google groups?

Mozilla has decided they will not peer their newsgroups to Usenet. That
is, they have an NNTP service but their newsgroups are private. That
means you have to connect your NNTP client to:

host: news.mozilla.org
port: 119

This isn't unique. There are many companies that run an NNTP server but
don't want the hassle of peering to the worldwide mesh network of NNTP
server (aka Usenet aka public newsgroups). While Mozilla doesn't peer
their newsgroups into Usenet, they do make their NNTP publicly
accessible.

lew wrote:

I do have a "hang" on occasionally BUT is it TB or the ISP?

Open a command shell (aka command prompt) and run a ping against a site
that doesn't disable it, like:

ping www.yahoo.com

That'll tell you if your ISP is active and you can pass through their
network to get to the Internet.

Marv wrote:

On 5/4/2014 7:02 AM, Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
Marv wrote:

but want to be able to convert all existing address book,stored email.
etc.

Oh, one other point I was thinking about but forgot to type. Though you
don't say, apparently you are currently using RoadRunner cable for your
email service ). If you "switch" from that
account to Microsoft's Outlook.com web services, you will have to get a
new email address - - *if* it isn't already taken.

The overall worth of doing that may depend on how many friends, family,
business associates you will have to get to update to your new email
address. You would/should operate both services for a significant time
period during your transition.

I though I saw something while I was trying to get information on
Outlook.com that said you can configure it so that you could continue to
use your existing email address. I DO NOT want to change it. In what
small efforts to use it I can send email from it. I haven't tried to
receive them as yet. I'll see if I can get further info on that.

The way that works is the Microsoft account will poll other POP accounts
(and only using POP); however, as I recall, *you* had to initiate the
poll to check the other accounts. Gmail has the same feature but will
automatically poll; however, it will gradually lengthen its poll
interval. It will poll your other POP accounts at 5 minute intervals,
then 10, then 30, and so on until it polls at a max of 1 hour intervals.
The poll interval gets increased as Gmail finds no new e-mails in the
polled other accounts. As soon as it finds a new e-mail there, the
polling interval drops down to 5 minutes but starts increasing again.

If you are using an e-mail client to the Microsoft account, you will not
use the "other accounts" feature in that account to get new e-mails from
the other accounts. That is a webmail UI feature. Of course, if you're
using a local e-mail client then you simply add those other accounts to
your e-mail client (or have it poll Gmail which will do automatic
polling of other POP accounts).

I moved away from my ISP's e-mail services. Their webmail UI sucks
(slow, page layout is overly busy, they contract it out to Zimbra who is
very slow to address bugs) and their IMAP access is horribly slow. So I
moved to a Hotmail account. In the server-side config options for my
ISP e-mail account, there is an option to forward e-mails elsewhere. So
I have any e-mails to my ISP e-mail account forwarded to my Hotmail
account. The forwarding is instantaneous upon delivery to my ISP. I
don't have to do anything at Hotmail.

I would've liked to use my ISP's auto-responder to tell senders that my
ISP e-mail account was defunct, their e-mails will get forwarded to my
Hotmail account, and give them my Hotmail e-mail address. Alas, my ISP
makes mutually exclusive the forwarding and auto-responder features. I
figured it was more important to get the e-mails than tell the sender
the new e-mail address they should start using from now on. I've been
very frugal and careful to whom I dole out my e-mail addresses (using
aliases via Spamgourmet for unknown or untrusted senders) so there were
very few senders that I had to send a notice telling them my new Hotmail
address. For the few sites that have my true e-mail address(es), I just
logged in to change my e-mail address in my account with them.

Rather than yanking e-mails from an old account into a new account, see
if you can instead push them from the old account to the new one.

Marv wrote:

I do have Outlook.com "installed."

Wrong. Outlook.com (notice the TLD - top-level *domain* of ".com") is a
web site. You don't own that domain. All you can do is visit there
using a web browser or connect to e-mail *servers* using a local e-mail
client. You seem to have a problem differentiating between using a
local e-mail account and surfing using a web browser.

The rest of us have a definition of "installed" that implies adding
software to a computer. What do YOU mean by "installed"? Adding an
account to a local e-mail client is not "installing" that web site.

When I say the programs hangs I mean it stops working with the message
Thunderbird is not responding. I have to close it and restart.

Did you yet try disabling your anti-virus or other security software
that may be interrogating your e-mail traffic or otherwise affecting
Thunderbird?

I absolutely need to keep my current email address. I though I read
that there some way to redirect it to Outlook.

See my other reply. You can configure server-side settings in your
Outlook.com *account* to add other POP accounts; however, those other
accounts are not regularly polled for new e-mails. You have to use
Microsoft webmail UI to your account there to click on those other
accounts to poll them.

You can simply leave your old account defined in Thunderbird to continue
polling it for new e-mails and even send out through that old account
(as long as you remain an RR customer, that is).

Or check if RR has a server-side setting for your e-mail account there
that has it forward any incoming e-mails to your Outlook.com account.
See if there is a setting in your RR account that lets you forward
incoming e-mails (to your Outlook.com account). Generally it is better
to push rather than yank.

Andy Burns wrote:

Try excluding your thunderbird data folder from whatever virus scanning
you use.

E-mail scanning is superfluous, anyway. It uses the same scan engine as
does the on-access (real-time) scanner. The interrogation can cause
problems in e-mail clients while affording no increase in the protection
level. Disable or remove the e-mail scanner component in your
anti-virus software. It's glitz to con the ignorant that the product
monitors on more infection vectors.

On Sun, 4 May 2014 21:54:23 -0500, "R. C. White"
wrote:

One of the worst naming problems, I think, is the "backwards" use of the
terms "System Partition" and "Boot Volume". My understanding is that
Microsoft didn't actually invent those terms and their counterintuitive
application, but simply inherited long-standing practice. Perhaps you and
others who have been involved in computers longer than I have can confirm,
explain - or deny that understanding.

And "Outlook.com" might be the worst recent example. :( My opinion is
jaundiced, too.

In Linux, the "root" folder is not the root folder. Try not to be
confused by that.

Rod.

VanguardLH wrote, On 5/5/2014 2:29 AM:

The way that works is the Microsoft account will poll other POP accounts
(and only using POP); however, as I recall, *you* had to initiate the
poll to check the other accounts.

It's been a quite a few years since it was necessary to initiate the
poll if aggregating a POP3 account in the Outlook.com (fka Hotmail UI).
Polling is automatic (occurs with each logon and routinely during logon
and also when not logged on).

Much has changed since then.
- About a year prior to rebranding Hotmail.com as Outlook.com all
accounts (MSFT type - Outlook, Hotmail, Live, MSn.com and 3rd party
accounts) have an Inbox and a complete email folder structure
- Email and Contacts from other 3rd party accounts supporting POP3 and
IMAP can be imported into Outlook.com using the Outlook.com provided engine
- Optionally mail can be forwarded from a third party account (via
that account's web UI). Recipient messages sent from Outlook.com as new
or in reply to the forwarded emails will be replied to the third party
email account.
- All third party registered MSFT accounts can send mail from the
Outlook.com UI, and also if desired receive email from the email account
of the registered account, optionally, an alias account can be used in
the third party registered MSFT account to send/receive mail.
- Separate folders (user created) and rules can be used to sort
incoming (from all configured sources)
- Additonally all other Outlook.com web UI services and their features
are available (OneDrive, Office Apps, Calendar, etc.)

--
...winston
msft mvp consumer apps

On Sat, 03 May 2014 22:29:58 -0400, Marv
wrote:

Like many others here I have had it with Thunderbird. I have used it
since Outlook Expressed disappeared and it is OK, but lately it hangs
almost every time I try to do something in it. This happens many times
a day.

I would like to try Outlook.com but am having difficulty understanding
the difference between it and Outlook as a part of the Microsoft Office.
I do not have Office installed and do not plan to do so.

/almost every search I do relates to switching to Outlook. I do have
Outlook.com installed and have tried a few things with it but want to be
able to convert all existing address book,stored email. etc. Plus I
understand that it does not provide a news reader. Does anyone have
experience doing this and can you point me to a site that does cover
such conversion?

As other posters have pointed out, if you switch to Outlook.com you
end up with a webmail service accessed through your web browser and
have to use a MS account such as hotmail.com or outlook.com

To my surprise, having just tried I find that Thunderbird can now
handle such accounts. The question is whether you already use these
services or are looking at ditching your old email address altogether.

Outlook.com is not a newsreader.

The program Outlook is a fine one but you would have to pay for it and
in my experience with it is that it does not handle imap very well at
all. Therefore it is preferable to use POP3 but you would have to
make sure that you checked a box somewhere in set up to stop it from
deleting the mail from the server if you want to be able to access it
on multiple computers and don't want to risk losing mail if your
computer crashes.

It also does not handle newreading as far as I know.

Like others here I have not had any problems with Thunderbird and feel
that your problem might be computer or TB configuration based.

If you are intent on changing, you might want to check out Mailbird
which is free but limited to two accounts unless you want to pay for
an upgrade. It is quite a nice interface and it is very fast.

I use Thunderbird for my personal mail, Outlook for my business MS
Exchange account and Forte Agent for NNTP. The latter is a very good
newsreader imho and I prefer the old unix philosophy of having one
program for one task...although Outlook is a complete PIM with
calendar and contact managers built in.

VanguardLH wrote, On 5/5/2014 2:37 AM:

See my other reply. You can configure server-side settings in your
Outlook.com *account* to add other POP accounts; however, those other
accounts are not regularly polled for new e-mails. You have to use
Microsoft webmail UI to your account there to click on those other
accounts to poll them.


Polling is automatic, no need to use the MSFT webmail UI. That
requirement was discontinued a few years ago.



--
...winston
msft mvp consumer apps

Snuffin wrote, On 5/5/2014 3:32 AM:

As other posters have pointed out, if you switch to Outlook.com you
end up with a webmail service accessed through your web browser and
have to use a MS account such as hotmail.com or outlook.com

Not true. An Outlook.com account (MSFT or 3rd party registered email
account as a MSFT account) can be accessed via email clients and
supports POP3 and IMAP.

The program Outlook is a fine one but you would have to pay for it and
in my experience with it is that it does not handle imap very well at
all. Therefore it is preferable to use POP3 but you would have to
make sure that you checked a box somewhere in set up to stop it from
deleting the mail from the server if you want to be able to access it
on multiple computers and don't want to risk losing mail if your
computer crashes.

Have you used Outlook 2010 and 2013 with IMAP. Works fine here. Both
10/13 support POP3, IMAP, and 2013 also supports EAS.

For IMAP
•Incoming IMAP
•Server: imap-mail.outlook.com
•Server port: 993
•Encryption: SSL

•Outgoing SMTP •Server: smtp-mail.outlook.com
•Server port: 587
•Encryption: TLS


For POP3
•Incoming (POP3) Server
•Server address: pop-mail.outlook.com
•Port: 995
•Encrypted Connection: SSL


•Outgoing (SMTP) Server
•Server address: smtp-mail.outlook.com
•Port: 25 (or 587 if 25 is blocked)
•Authentication: Yes
•Encrypted Connection: TLS








--
...winston
msft mvp consumer apps