Win8 not MS only flop

Judging from all the 1-star comments Streets and Trips 2013, MS
seems to be losing it's ability to design software with the consumer
in mind. Win8x isn't their only flop.


http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Streets-and-Trips-2013/product-reviews/B007RFW1NA/ref=cm_cr_pr_hist_1?ie=UTF8&filterBy=addOneStar&sh owViewpoints=0&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending

Not being able to handle/convert the saved files of previous versions
of S&T? It looks to me like MS has not only lost it customer-focus
but actually disdains the concept of customer-focus.

Contrast that attitude with Amazon.com described in

http://www.amazon.com/Everything-Store-Jeff-Bezos-Amazon-ebook/dp/B00BWQW73E/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1386246102&sr=1-1&keywords=the+everything+store

MS today reminds me of SEARS in the mid 1970s.

On 12/05/2013 07:31 AM, VinnyB wrote:
Judging from all the 1-star comments Streets and Trips 2013, MS
seems to be losing it's ability to design software with the consumer
in mind. Win8x isn't their only flop.


http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Streets-and-Trips-2013/product-reviews/B007RFW1NA/ref=cm_cr_pr_hist_1?ie=UTF8&filterBy=addOneStar&sh owViewpoints=0&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending

Not being able to handle/convert the saved files of previous versions
of S&T? It looks to me like MS has not only lost it customer-focus
but actually disdains the concept of customer-focus.

Contrast that attitude with Amazon.com described in

http://www.amazon.com/Everything-Store-Jeff-Bezos-Amazon-ebook/dp/B00BWQW73E/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1386246102&sr=1-1&keywords=the+everything+store

MS today reminds me of SEARS in the mid 1970s.




As to Sears...
I started my job in 1975 and bought all new tools.

When I retired 18 months ago, the only original tool I had left was my
Craftsman socket set.

I did not return it to the company!

I kept it as a retirement present.


(The only thing they gave me on leaving was a hand shake.)

VinnyB wrote:

Judging from all the 1-star comments Streets and Trips 2013, MS
seems to be losing it's ability to design software with the consumer
in mind. Win8x isn't their only flop.

You don't remember Microsoft's Bob?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5teG6ou8mWU

Something about that UI nostalgically reminds me of the first graphical
version of the Zork game (Return to Zork). You had to wave the mouse
around trying to see where the cursor would change to find something you
could click on. Over here, nope, over there, no, how about there, no,
and how about this, ah, I can click there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rsLxheKJtY

"VanguardLH" wrote in message
...
VinnyB wrote:

Judging from all the 1-star comments Streets and Trips 2013, MS
seems to be losing it's ability to design software with the consumer
in mind. Win8x isn't their only flop.

You don't remember Microsoft's Bob?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5teG6ou8mWU

Something about that UI nostalgically reminds me of the first graphical
version of the Zork game (Return to Zork). You had to wave the mouse
around trying to see where the cursor would change to find something you
could click on. Over here, nope, over there, no, how about there, no,
and how about this, ah, I can click there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rsLxheKJtY

And then there was Windows Me. It was horrible.

On 12/06/2013 07:59 AM, PAS wrote:
"VanguardLH" wrote in message
...
VinnyB wrote:

Judging from all the 1-star comments Streets and Trips 2013, MS
seems to be losing it's ability to design software with the consumer
in mind. Win8x isn't their only flop.

You don't remember Microsoft's Bob?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5teG6ou8mWU

The above link was good and led to a lot of interesting links on the sidebar



Something about that UI nostalgically reminds me of the first graphical
version of the Zork game (Return to Zork). You had to wave the mouse
around trying to see where the cursor would change to find something you
could click on. Over here, nope, over there, no, how about there, no,
and how about this, ah, I can click there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rsLxheKJtY

And then there was Windows Me. It was horrible.




I think that Vista was the worst of the lot...at least when initially
released.

philo* wrote:

I think that Vista was the worst of the lot...at least when initially
released.

Microsoft had to rethink Windows 8 (to modify it in 8.1 and again later
in 8.2) when they saw how cool was its reception equal to what happened
with Vista. Corporate customers generally ignored Vista. The prevalent
population of Vista users were those that bought pre-built computers
with a pre-installed OS (which was Vista).

On 12/6/2013 2:59 PM, PAS wrote:
And then there was Windows Me. It was horrible.

For its time it was all right. The MS newsgroup for Me was the most
civilized of all MS groups.

--
Alias

Alias posted this via
:

On 12/6/2013 2:59 PM, PAS wrote:
And then there was Windows Me. It was horrible.

For its time it was all right. The MS newsgroup for Me was the most
civilized of all MS groups.

I learned all my computing skills in the M$ Public WinMe group...
GEEZUS... getting knocked around in that ****-pot by a bunch of arrogant
jerkwads and MWM$MVPs... BUT, there were quite a few very nice, patient
and understanding folks who helped out quite a bit.

WinMe was my first OS... Everybody would tell me "you need to trash Me and
get a copy of 98 or 98SE...

I'd bow-up and get sooooo mad... like someone telling a "yer mama" jokes
right to my face. LOL! To add to the confooshun, I also had BellCentral's
ADSL connection, which used a USB modem interface... I got to where I
could blow the commo-stack and rebuild it inside of 11-minutes flat and be
back online....

FINALLY, I got me a copy of the pirated corporate release of WinXP...
because I felt like they'd cheated me on Me, so now I was slippin' on down
to the 'Dark Side'.

WinXP Corp... WHOO-WHEE!!! *NEVER* crashed or blue-screened... I loved it
so much that I went online, signed into a college bookstore account and
bought a legal copy (OEM-Student-Pro) for ~$30.

Alas... I sure wish M$ would extend XP for another couple of years -- even
if they'd have to charge a small fee for it. Also on my wish list is that
their lazy-ass new-hire coders would port WinXP to accept IE-11+ while
they're at it. Do it via Windows Update routine ritual...

I got my newest box updated to Win8.1 via teh Windows Store routine... Holy
Smolley's... I don't know if I'll ever get control of that hot mess.

Hey Santa, you readin' this??? Hope a Predator drone don't shoot ya
down... at least until after I get my stuff.

--

I AM Bucky Breeder, (*(^; and ,
I like to go to Kanye West concerts and
holler-out "Play Free Bird!" ... wave my lighter...

"Did I say 'Free Bird'?" ... "I meant 'Big Butts'!"

When security escorts me out, I claim
that "It's all because I am White."

I converted my pick-up truck to a monster mobile stereo,
and now I drive through Black neighborhoods and ghettos
playing John Denver 'til it rattles the residential windows!

Best Wishes to you and yours for a joyous, peaceful
and safe Mindless Compulsive Consumerism Season!

"Bucky "Wish List" Breeder"
wrote in message
...
Alias posted this via
:

On 12/6/2013 2:59 PM, PAS wrote:
And then there was Windows Me. It was horrible.

For its time it was all right. The MS newsgroup for Me was the most
civilized of all MS groups.

I learned all my computing skills in the M$ Public WinMe group...
GEEZUS... getting knocked around in that ****-pot by a bunch of arrogant
jerkwads and MWM$MVPs... BUT, there were quite a few very nice, patient
and understanding folks who helped out quite a bit.

WinMe was my first OS... Everybody would tell me "you need to trash Me
and
get a copy of 98 or 98SE...

I would agree with those folks, based on my experience. Where I work, we
used 98 and never had a thought to upgrade to Me. Our next upgrade finally
got us to a stable OS - Windows NT.

I'd bow-up and get sooooo mad... like someone telling a "yer mama" jokes
right to my face. LOL! To add to the confooshun, I also had
BellCentral's
ADSL connection, which used a USB modem interface... I got to where I
could blow the commo-stack and rebuild it inside of 11-minutes flat and be
back online....

FINALLY, I got me a copy of the pirated corporate release of WinXP...
because I felt like they'd cheated me on Me, so now I was slippin' on down
to the 'Dark Side'.

WinXP Corp... WHOO-WHEE!!! *NEVER* crashed or blue-screened... I loved
it
so much that I went online, signed into a college bookstore account and
bought a legal copy (OEM-Student-Pro) for ~$30.

Alas... I sure wish M$ would extend XP for another couple of years -- even
if they'd have to charge a small fee for it. Also on my wish list is that
their lazy-ass new-hire coders would port WinXP to accept IE-11+ while
they're at it. Do it via Windows Update routine ritual...

XP is Microsot's most popular OS to date. I still have it on my PC at the
office. With support ending in April, it will get upgraded to Windows 7
soon.

I got my newest box updated to Win8.1 via teh Windows Store routine...
Holy
Smolley's... I don't know if I'll ever get control of that hot mess.

I quite like Windows 8, moreso with the update to 8.1. I upgraded my home
desktop from 7 to and have no regerets. The fast start-up time is a nice
bonus and I've had no issues with any hardware or software in the
transition.

Hey Santa, you readin' this??? Hope a Predator drone don't shoot ya
down... at least until after I get my stuff.

--

I AM Bucky Breeder, (*(^; and ,
I like to go to Kanye West concerts and
holler-out "Play Free Bird!" ... wave my lighter...

"Did I say 'Free Bird'?" ... "I meant 'Big Butts'!"

When security escorts me out, I claim
that "It's all because I am White."

I converted my pick-up truck to a monster mobile stereo,
and now I drive through Black neighborhoods and ghettos
playing John Denver 'til it rattles the residential windows!

Best Wishes to you and yours for a joyous, peaceful
and safe Mindless Compulsive Consumerism Season!

On 12/06/2013 08:21 AM, VanguardLH wrote:
philo wrote:

I think that Vista was the worst of the lot...at least when initially
released.

Microsoft had to rethink Windows 8 (to modify it in 8.1 and again later
in 8.2) when they saw how cool was its reception equal to what happened
with Vista. Corporate customers generally ignored Vista. The prevalent
population of Vista users were those that bought pre-built computers
with a pre-installed OS (which was Vista).




I've had a lot of people come to me almost in tears because they could
not use Win8...and this was not only older people like me...plenty of
them were younger.

Once I installed (or told then to install) "Classic shell" they were
very happy.


as to Vista, it just plain did not work until SP1 was released.

philo* wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:

philo wrote:

I think that Vista was the worst of the lot...at least when initially
released.

Microsoft had to rethink Windows 8 (to modify it in 8.1 and again later
in 8.2) when they saw how cool was its reception equal to what happened
with Vista. Corporate customers generally ignored Vista. The prevalent
population of Vista users were those that bought pre-built computers
with a pre-installed OS (which was Vista).

I've had a lot of people come to me almost in tears because they could
not use Win8...and this was not only older people like me...plenty of
them were younger. Once I installed (or told then to install)
"Classic shell" they were very happy.

as to Vista, it just plain did not work until SP1 was released.

I myself would probably use the free Classic Shell. It has a lot of
tweaks and, as I recall, brought back old functionality into Windows
Explorer and Internet Explorer, too. However, some users get turned off
by a tweaker with a great number of tweaks. Too much for them. For me,
TrueCrypt is the better encrypter tool but those that want a simpler
solution like BestCrypt Traveller. Because it's cheap (was $5 but now
down to $4), I suggest to the more-ease-of-use users Stardock's Start8.
If anything, either of those products eliminate having to deal with
users whining to you about their tribulations with using Windows 8.

It's not just Windows 8 where Microsoft phucked up the UI. Although I
try to learn the new UI when I have the time, I still find Office's
ribbon bar (from 2007 and up) to be way too mouse intensive, just as
cluttered as classic menus, and I'm still drilling around inside of it
to find the same old functions that are still in the newer versions. So
I've got links on my desktop to review Ubitmenu, addintools, and
officeclassicmenu.com since I'll probably pick one of those add-ons to
give me back the classic menus (from Office 2003). I might've
uninstalled Office 2010 and reinstalled Office 2003 except Office 2010
is way much faster, like recalculating or even loading a huge
spreadsheet and reformatting a huge document or even running a spell
check on it. These classic menu add-ons don't eliminate the ribbon bar
but instead add another tab to it where you can see the classic menus.
So I click the chevron to hide the ribbon bar (to recover all that
wasted screen space) and can then click on the Menus tab to show me the
classic menus to make it is easy and quick to find the old functions
using those long-time well-trained engrams in my memory.

Despite Microsoft's attempt to pretend a new UI equates to a new version
of a product, that's just fluff that effects a new learning curve of a
product. Having to relearn a program when the vast majority of it
underlying functionality being the same does not mandate it is a whole
new version of the product but only qualifies as a minor version update.
But marketers understand their public and many users have been well
trained in the "newer is better" sales mantra. Imagine getting an
"update" to your car which changes the entire dash with a completely
different layout. Gee, you get to relearn how to use your car. Yet
that's exactly what happens with consumers: they buy new cars not
because they have to but because they want to, and having that whole new
dash helps qualify their purchase as a new car. I've been driving the
same old '92 Subaru since I bought it used in '94 (I let others suffer
the big depreciation years).

Microsoft thought the mobile-centric market was larger and would
accomodate sales of Windows 8. Didn't happen. Now Microsoft is trying
to recover by downgrading Windows 8 to accomodate its core user
population by returning UI features that were taken away. Although I
might be forced to use Windows 8 on some workstations at work (our group
is still on Windows 7 as are the IT folks and just about everyone else I
know there), I'll wait to see what recovery or phuck up Microsoft does
with Windows 9.

I've been using Windows XP at home until this year for a total of 12
years. I'll be using Windows 7 for a long time, too, so waiting for
Windows 9 or 10 is no biggie for me personally. However, I'm at the
point that if Microsoft also screws up Windows 9 and 10 that I'll move
to a Linux distro. The switchover won't be so dramatic for me since I
have to do testing on many *NIX hosts in the alpha lab.

Yeah, I know, in a Windows 8 newsgroup this probably amounts to heresy.
While I have to learn (for testing and support) and sometimes have to
use Windows 8, it won't be my personal choice on my own computers.

On Fri, 6 Dec 2013 20:50:57 -0600, VanguardLH wrote in
Re Win8 not MS only flop:

I still find Office's
ribbon bar (from 2007 and up) to be way too mouse intensive, just as
cluttered as classic menus, and I'm still drilling around inside of it

Consider a good Office-compatible replacement such as
http://www.softmaker.com/english/ofw_en.htm
--
Web based forums are like subscribing to 10 different newspapers
and having to visit 10 different news stands to pickup each one.
Email list-server groups and USENET are like having all of those
newspapers delivered to your door every morning.

CRNG wrote:

VanguardLH wrote:

I still find Office's ribbon bar (from 2007 and up) to be way too
mouse intensive, just as cluttered as classic menus, and I'm still
drilling around inside of it

Consider a good Office-compatible replacement such as
http://www.softmaker.com/english/ofw_en.htm

At a cost of $80 US for the standard version. To add their e-mail
client requires their Pro version which ups the price to $100.

On a laptop, I installed Kingsoft Office Suite Free 2013. FREE. You
can pick their menu theme or use one that is very close to matching
Office 2003. Loads damn quick and does everything I want. Their $80
payware version has more features but the free version is sufficient for
my personal needs. It's download is one-twentieth the size of Office
2010 and one-fifth the size of Softmaker.

Kingsoft Suite (free or Pro) doesn't include an e-mail client. For
that, EssentialPIM Free is a good PIM substitute for Outlook. There is
just enough wanted extra features in their $40 payware version that
someday I might end up getting it. Kingsoft Suite Free 2013 + EPim Free
= $0. If it move up to EPim Pro than my total outlay is $40. In a
business setting, Kingsoft WPS Office 2013 costs $70 and EPIM Pro costs
$40 so the total would be $110 so then I'd probably evaluate Softmaker
Office Pro at $100, including looking at reviews of their tech support.

Where I already have Office 2007/2010 (and where I'm allowed to install
software on the host, like at home and on our dept's workstations but
not on some other work hosts), a FREE add-on to allow access to the
classic menus makes more financial sense. It lets me get my work done
now but, if I have the time, I can play with the Microsoft's ribbon to
learn that UI. I'm not averse to learning a new UI but can't always
waste the time to learn it all at once.

I couldn't find a free version of Softmaker Office Suite on their web
site. Later I did an online search on "Softmaker office free" and found
their independent www.freeoffice.com site. That is free. So now I'll
have to find some comparative reviews between Kingsoft Office Suite Free
and Softmaker FreeOffice. Thanks for the heads up on the alternative.

On Sat, 7 Dec 2013 18:25:41 -0600, VanguardLH wrote in
Re Win8 not MS only flop:

I couldn't find a free version of Softmaker Office Suite on their web
site. Later I did an online search on "Softmaker office free" and found
their independent www.freeoffice.com site. That is free. So now I'll
have to find some comparative reviews between Kingsoft Office Suite Free
and Softmaker FreeOffice. Thanks for the heads up on the alternative.

Sorry I didn't think to mention a free alternative to the commercial
MS Office suite (MSO). I just assumed that since the OP had mentioned
the commercial MSO that he would be interested in a commercial
alternative that is very highly compatible, well supported and much
less costly.

I never tried SoftMaker Free Office (SFO) because when I was looking
for an MSO replacement I was willing to accept a commercial
alternative as I believe the support and compatibility is better
(although I don't know that for sure).

I've been using SoftMaker Office for two years and I'm very happy with
it as a replacement for MSO.

I would be very interested in your comparitive review.
--
Web based forums are like subscribing to 10 different newspapers
and having to visit 10 different news stands to pickup each one.
Email list-server groups and USENET are like having all of those
newspapers delivered to your door every morning.