Recovery partition

Char Jackson wrote:
On Wed, 25 Feb 2015 16:30:41 -0500, Paul wrote:

I checked mine, and it doesn't have that (a third partition).
It has the three partitions that I had setup (MBR setup). Maybe
yours uses a GPT setup ?

I think I installed Win10 (makes two partitions), then used
Disk Management to define a third DATA partition to fill out
the 500GB drive. There is no room for another partition to
"sneak in".

If you have three primary partitions, there's room for one more primary,
right? Or one extended, containing one or more logicals.


A partition would have to be shrunk, to make space for the
partition. I filled the whole disk, by extending the DATA
partition right up to the end.

Yes, there's room in the MBR, but no space at the
end of the disk for the file system.

Paul

On Wed, 25 Feb 2015 14:38:44 -0800, "Gene E. Bloch"
wrote:

On Wed, 25 Feb 2015 14:26:58 -0800, Geoff wrote:

On Wed, 25 Feb 2015 13:30:20 -0800, "Gene E. Bloch"
wrote:

On Wed, 25 Feb 2015 14:21:22 -0600, philo wrote:

On 02/25/2015 02:02 PM, philo wrote:
On 02/25/2015 12:52 PM, Ed Cryer wrote:




I also have Win8 installed in a Virtual Machine and it has no such
partition.


At any rate this is absolutely not a manufacturer's recovery partition

Mine are OEM installations, so maybe the recovery partitions include the
OS plus all the original software (so much of it being just junk that I
immediately uninstall).

Does the native Win10 come with the option to recover to initial
installation?

Ed



Looks like it does...will have to examine further.

From within Windows, the partition is locked but accessing the
partition by booting from and alternative iso I see that among other
things there is a Winre.wim Windows recovery image file

Let's hope there is some form of access to it, in case one ever actually
needs to recover :-)

Like Press Shift-Ctrl-Alt-F7 during POST. Obviously I made that up, but
I wonder if it's obvious - or at least documented - how to start the
recovery process.

Isn't the recovery process started from the F8 procedure? That's where
it's always been in the earlier systems.

I've never done it, at least not in the last five or ten years, or even
much worried about it, so I don't know - and I was too lazy to look it
up. Yeah, bad boy :-)

Partly, I was noticing (and being very indirect in saying it) that philo
had found the file but didn't say how he could get to use it. I figured
either he knows already, or else finding out[1] could be his homework
assignment :-)

[1] For himself, really.

Ah. OK. I recently dealt with advising a friend with a problem where
his Windows 7 Pro system won't boot even in Safe Mode so it was fresh
in my mind. I think my arthritic fingers would have a problem with
Shift-Ctrl-Alt-F7.

On Wed, 25 Feb 2015 18:57:01 -0600, philo wrote:

On 02/25/2015 03:30 PM, Gene E. Bloch wrote:
On Wed, 25 Feb 2015 14:21:22 -0600, philo wrote:

On 02/25/2015 02:02 PM, philo wrote:
On 02/25/2015 12:52 PM, Ed Cryer wrote:




I also have Win8 installed in a Virtual Machine and it has no such
partition.


At any rate this is absolutely not a manufacturer's recovery partition

Mine are OEM installations, so maybe the recovery partitions include the
OS plus all the original software (so much of it being just junk that I
immediately uninstall).

Does the native Win10 come with the option to recover to initial
installation?

Ed



Looks like it does...will have to examine further.

From within Windows, the partition is locked but accessing the
partition by booting from and alternative iso I see that among other
things there is a Winre.wim Windows recovery image file

Let's hope there is some form of access to it, in case one ever actually
needs to recover :-)

Like Press Shift-Ctrl-Alt-F7 during POST. Obviously I made that up, but
I wonder if it's obvious - or at least documented - how to start the
recovery process.




Yes, I am quite sure it will be used during a recovery...it's simply not
accessible though Windows Explorer or Disk Management

Neither are the ones in Windows 7 or Windows 8.1. Correct?

On 02/25/2015 08:19 PM, Geoff wrote:
On Wed, 25 Feb 2015 18:57:01 -0600, philo wrote:

On 02/25/2015 03:30 PM, Gene E. Bloch wrote:
On Wed, 25 Feb 2015 14:21:22 -0600, philo wrote:

On 02/25/2015 02:02 PM, philo wrote:
On 02/25/2015 12:52 PM, Ed Cryer wrote:




I also have Win8 installed in a Virtual Machine and it has no such
partition.


At any rate this is absolutely not a manufacturer's recovery partition

Mine are OEM installations, so maybe the recovery partitions include the
OS plus all the original software (so much of it being just junk that I
immediately uninstall).

Does the native Win10 come with the option to recover to initial
installation?

Ed



Looks like it does...will have to examine further.

From within Windows, the partition is locked but accessing the
partition by booting from and alternative iso I see that among other
things there is a Winre.wim Windows recovery image file

Let's hope there is some form of access to it, in case one ever actually
needs to recover :-)

Like Press Shift-Ctrl-Alt-F7 during POST. Obviously I made that up, but
I wonder if it's obvious - or at least documented - how to start the
recovery process.




Yes, I am quite sure it will be used during a recovery...it's simply not
accessible though Windows Explorer or Disk Management

Neither are the ones in Windows 7 or Windows 8.1. Correct?




Correct. Any recovery partition in win7 or Win8 would be put there at
the factory and would be locked. IIRC that's done through a disk label

On Wed, 25 Feb 2015 18:13:06 -0800, Geoff wrote:

On Wed, 25 Feb 2015 14:38:44 -0800, "Gene E. Bloch"
wrote:

On Wed, 25 Feb 2015 14:26:58 -0800, Geoff wrote:

On Wed, 25 Feb 2015 13:30:20 -0800, "Gene E. Bloch"
wrote:

On Wed, 25 Feb 2015 14:21:22 -0600, philo wrote:

On 02/25/2015 02:02 PM, philo wrote:
On 02/25/2015 12:52 PM, Ed Cryer wrote:




I also have Win8 installed in a Virtual Machine and it has no such
partition.


At any rate this is absolutely not a manufacturer's recovery partition

Mine are OEM installations, so maybe the recovery partitions include the
OS plus all the original software (so much of it being just junk that I
immediately uninstall).

Does the native Win10 come with the option to recover to initial
installation?

Ed



Looks like it does...will have to examine further.

From within Windows, the partition is locked but accessing the
partition by booting from and alternative iso I see that among other
things there is a Winre.wim Windows recovery image file

Let's hope there is some form of access to it, in case one ever actually
needs to recover :-)

Like Press Shift-Ctrl-Alt-F7 during POST. Obviously I made that up, but
I wonder if it's obvious - or at least documented - how to start the
recovery process.

Isn't the recovery process started from the F8 procedure? That's where
it's always been in the earlier systems.

I've never done it, at least not in the last five or ten years, or even
much worried about it, so I don't know - and I was too lazy to look it
up. Yeah, bad boy :-)

Partly, I was noticing (and being very indirect in saying it) that philo
had found the file but didn't say how he could get to use it. I figured
either he knows already, or else finding out[1] could be his homework
assignment :-)

[1] For himself, really.

Ah. OK. I recently dealt with advising a friend with a problem where
his Windows 7 Pro system won't boot even in Safe Mode so it was fresh
in my mind. I think my arthritic fingers would have a problem with
Shift-Ctrl-Alt-F7.

Good thing I was lying :-)

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

On 2015-02-25 21:34, philo wrote:

Yes, I am quite sure it will be used during a recovery...it's simply not
accessible though Windows Explorer or Disk Management

Neither are the ones in Windows 7 or Windows 8.1. Correct?


Correct. Any recovery partition in win7 or Win8 would be put there at
the factory and would be locked. IIRC that's done through a disk label

AFAIK it's done via the partition type byte, $27 for recovery partition
here on my W7 system. You can get to it from within Windows by using
diskpart and changing the type to $07 (plain NTFS) and giving it a
letter. Just don't forget to put it back to $27 once you're done.

Diskpart
list disk
select disk #
list partition
select partition #
set id=07 override
assign letter=x
remove letter=x
set id=27 override

Best Regards,

--
! _\|/_ Sylvain /
! (o o) Member-+-David-Suzuki-Foundation/EFF/Planetary-Society-+-
oO-( )-Oo 3 Kinds of people: Those who can count & those who can't.

On Wed, 25 Feb 2015 22:27:53 -0500, B00ze/Empire
wrote:

On 2015-02-25 21:34, philo wrote:

Yes, I am quite sure it will be used during a recovery...it's simply not
accessible though Windows Explorer or Disk Management

Neither are the ones in Windows 7 or Windows 8.1. Correct?


Correct. Any recovery partition in win7 or Win8 would be put there at
the factory and would be locked. IIRC that's done through a disk label

AFAIK it's done via the partition type byte, $27 for recovery partition
here on my W7 system. You can get to it from within Windows by using
diskpart and changing the type to $07 (plain NTFS) and giving it a
letter. Just don't forget to put it back to $27 once you're done.


On both my Win 7 box and my Win 8.1 laptop, I can get to the OEM recovery
partition by assigning it a drive letter. That doesn't seem very locked to
me.

On Wed, 25 Feb 2015 20:59:16 -0500, Paul wrote:

Char Jackson wrote:
On Wed, 25 Feb 2015 16:30:41 -0500, Paul wrote:

I checked mine, and it doesn't have that (a third partition).
It has the three partitions that I had setup (MBR setup). Maybe
yours uses a GPT setup ?

I think I installed Win10 (makes two partitions), then used
Disk Management to define a third DATA partition to fill out
the 500GB drive. There is no room for another partition to
"sneak in".

If you have three primary partitions, there's room for one more primary,
right? Or one extended, containing one or more logicals.


A partition would have to be shrunk, to make space for the
partition. I filled the whole disk, by extending the DATA
partition right up to the end.

Yes, there's room in the MBR, but no space at the
end of the disk for the file system.

Gotcha, thanks. I was obviously thinking MBR.

Char Jackson wrote:
On Wed, 25 Feb 2015 20:59:16 -0500, Paul wrote:

Char Jackson wrote:
On Wed, 25 Feb 2015 16:30:41 -0500, Paul wrote:

I checked mine, and it doesn't have that (a third partition).
It has the three partitions that I had setup (MBR setup). Maybe
yours uses a GPT setup ?

I think I installed Win10 (makes two partitions), then used
Disk Management to define a third DATA partition to fill out
the 500GB drive. There is no room for another partition to
"sneak in".
If you have three primary partitions, there's room for one more primary,
right? Or one extended, containing one or more logicals.

A partition would have to be shrunk, to make space for the
partition. I filled the whole disk, by extending the DATA
partition right up to the end.

Yes, there's room in the MBR, but no space at the
end of the disk for the file system.

Gotcha, thanks. I was obviously thinking MBR.


Purely in the interest of Science, the next chance
I get, I'll make room for Win10 to do what it wants :-)
Win10 wants to give me an update, but I haven't let it
yet. I'll leave a little space at the end, if it
wants to make its own partition.

Paul

On 02/25/2015 09:27 PM, B00ze/Empire wrote:
On 2015-02-25 21:34, philo wrote:

Yes, I am quite sure it will be used during a recovery...it's simply
not
accessible though Windows Explorer or Disk Management

Neither are the ones in Windows 7 or Windows 8.1. Correct?


Correct. Any recovery partition in win7 or Win8 would be put there at
the factory and would be locked. IIRC that's done through a disk label

AFAIK it's done via the partition type byte, $27 for recovery partition
here on my W7 system. You can get to it from within Windows by using
diskpart and changing the type to $07 (plain NTFS) and giving it a
letter. Just don't forget to put it back to $27 once you're done.

Diskpart
list disk
select disk #
list partition
select partition #
set id=07 override
assign letter=x
remove letter=x
set id=27 override

Best Regards,





Thanks


That would certainty have worked

On 02/25/2015 10:38 PM, Char Jackson wrote:


On both my Win 7 box and my Win 8.1 laptop, I can get to the OEM recovery
partition by assigning it a drive letter. That doesn't seem very locked to
me.





Totally up to the mfg of the machine and not a function of Windows.

Some mfgs lock it and some don't

philo wrote:
On 02/25/2015 09:27 PM, B00ze/Empire wrote:
On 2015-02-25 21:34, philo wrote:

Yes, I am quite sure it will be used during a recovery...it's simply
not
accessible though Windows Explorer or Disk Management

Neither are the ones in Windows 7 or Windows 8.1. Correct?


Correct. Any recovery partition in win7 or Win8 would be put there at
the factory and would be locked. IIRC that's done through a disk label

AFAIK it's done via the partition type byte, $27 for recovery partition
here on my W7 system. You can get to it from within Windows by using
diskpart and changing the type to $07 (plain NTFS) and giving it a
letter. Just don't forget to put it back to $27 once you're done.

Diskpart
list disk
select disk #
list partition
select partition #
set id=07 override
assign letter=x
remove letter=x
set id=27 override

Best Regards,





Thanks


That would certainty have worked

Here's how the recovery partition will function in the recovery options.
They say it's not totally new, but a return to something that was in
early versions of Vista but removed later;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RL9M7CsP4qo

Ed

On 02/26/2015 11:21 AM, Ed Cryer wrote:



snip



Thanks


That would certainty have worked

Here's how the recovery partition will function in the recovery options.
They say it's not totally new, but a return to something that was in
early versions of Vista but removed later;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RL9M7CsP4qo

Ed





Thanks for the info. I sure did not know that Vista had such an
option...that's one OS I have not used much.

I really liked XP's repair install option...If I understand the Win10
recovery scheme, you get the option to essentially restore
Windows...keep your data,,,but still have to reinstall your apps.

philo wrote:
On 02/26/2015 11:21 AM, Ed Cryer wrote:



snip



Thanks


That would certainty have worked

Here's how the recovery partition will function in the recovery options.
They say it's not totally new, but a return to something that was in
early versions of Vista but removed later;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RL9M7CsP4qo

Ed





Thanks for the info. I sure did not know that Vista had such an
option...that's one OS I have not used much.

I really liked XP's repair install option...If I understand the Win10
recovery scheme, you get the option to essentially restore
Windows...keep your data,,,but still have to reinstall your apps.



I interpret it differently. The old terminology was "destructive or
non-destructive restore".
If we move from user-friendly to computer-savvy lingo what it is is the
options of;
1. Simple return to square 1. ie the whole thing reverts to the day you
opened the box.
2. Windows alone returns to day 1.

Whether or not all the subsequently installed stuff will work with that
earlier version of Windows has to be found out.

Ed

On 02/26/2015 01:19 PM, Ed Cryer wrote:
philo wrote:
On 02/26/2015 11:21 AM, Ed Cryer wrote:



snip



Thanks


That would certainty have worked

Here's how the recovery partition will function in the recovery options.
They say it's not totally new, but a return to something that was in
early versions of Vista but removed later;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RL9M7CsP4qo

Ed





Thanks for the info. I sure did not know that Vista had such an
option...that's one OS I have not used much.

I really liked XP's repair install option...If I understand the Win10
recovery scheme, you get the option to essentially restore
Windows...keep your data,,,but still have to reinstall your apps.



I interpret it differently. The old terminology was "destructive or
non-destructive restore".
If we move from user-friendly to computer-savvy lingo what it is is the
options of;
1. Simple return to square 1. ie the whole thing reverts to the day you
opened the box.
2. Windows alone returns to day 1.

Whether or not all the subsequently installed stuff will work with that
earlier version of Windows has to be found out.

Ed



I'm booted to Win10 now in a virtual machine and see there are several
recovery options:

Refresh your PC
Your files and personalization won't change.
Your PC settings will be changed back to their defaults.
Apps from the Windows Store will be kept.
Apps you installed form discs or websites will be removed.
A list of removed apps will be saved on your desktop.



There are several other options such as "remove everything and reinstall
Windows" and "go back to a previous version of Windows".


The first one however is the closest they have to an XP..."repair
install" and should be reasonably satisfactory I'd think