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O.T. Bad power supply?



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 19th 18, 12:39 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mark Twain
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Posts: 2,402
Default O.T. Bad power supply?

I have a Dell XPS 8500, with Windows 7 Professional, SP1,
with Spywareblaster, Malwarebytes, Avast , Windows Defender
and Windows firewall.

(1) TB HD
Intel (R) Core (TM) i7-33-3770 CPU @ 3.40 GHz
Ram 12.0 GB
System type : 64-bit operating system

I also have

I have a Dell Optiplex 780 Tower, with Windows 7 Professional,
SP1, with Spywareblaster, Malwarebytes, Avast , Windows Defender
and Windows firewall.

Intel (R) Core 2 Duo 2.93 GHz
4GB RAM, 750 GB HD
System type : 64-bit operating system

and (external hard drives)

(8500)
WD BLACK SERIES WD2003FZEX 2TB 7200
RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal
Hard Drive

(780)
Seagate Desktop HDD ST2000DM001 2TB 64MB
Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5"
Internal Hard Drive

Today when powering up the computers the 780 kept trying to
initiate the monitor but it kept starting/stopping and
wouldn't power on.

So it looks as if I may have to buy a new power supply or
could it be something else?

Are there any thoughts/recommendations where to buy a OEM
power supply?

Thoughts/Suggestions

Thanks,
Robert



Ads
  #2  
Old July 19th 18, 01:06 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mark Twain
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Posts: 2,402
Default O.T. Bad power supply?

I forgot to add a picture of the power supply:

http://i66.tinypic.com/140j21j.jpg


Robert
  #3  
Old July 19th 18, 01:06 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mark Twain
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Posts: 2,402
Default O.T. Bad power supply?

I forgot to add a picture of the power supply:

http://i66.tinypic.com/140j21j.jpg


Robert
  #4  
Old July 19th 18, 01:20 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
R.Wieser
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Posts: 1,302
Default O.T. Bad power supply?

Mark,

Today when powering up the computers the 780 kept trying
to initiate the monitor but it kept starting/stopping and
wouldn't power on.

So it looks as if I may have to buy a new power supply or
could it be something else?


It could be something else, like something drawing to much power, causing a
dip in voltage. And now I think of it, even a badly seated power connector
could cause such a voltage drop.

But it could be even simpler than that: A stuck "power switch" (just a
momentary pushbutton actually) could be stuck, causing a hard power-down 5
seconds after being switched on ....

And by the way, are you certain its the 'puter, and not just the monitor
having problems ?

Regards,
Rudy Wieser


  #5  
Old July 19th 18, 04:18 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Paul[_32_]
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Posts: 11,873
Default O.T. Bad power supply?

Mark Twain wrote:
I have a Dell XPS 8500, with Windows 7 Professional, SP1,
with Spywareblaster, Malwarebytes, Avast , Windows Defender
and Windows firewall.

(1) TB HD
Intel (R) Core (TM) i7-33-3770 CPU @ 3.40 GHz
Ram 12.0 GB
System type : 64-bit operating system

I also have

I have a Dell Optiplex 780 Tower, with Windows 7 Professional,
SP1, with Spywareblaster, Malwarebytes, Avast , Windows Defender
and Windows firewall.

Intel (R) Core 2 Duo 2.93 GHz
4GB RAM, 750 GB HD
System type : 64-bit operating system

and (external hard drives)

(8500)
WD BLACK SERIES WD2003FZEX 2TB 7200
RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal
Hard Drive

(780)
Seagate Desktop HDD ST2000DM001 2TB 64MB
Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5"
Internal Hard Drive

Today when powering up the computers the 780 kept trying to
initiate the monitor but it kept starting/stopping and
wouldn't power on.

So it looks as if I may have to buy a new power supply or
could it be something else?

Are there any thoughts/recommendations where to buy a OEM
power supply?

Thoughts/Suggestions

Thanks,
Robert


You can find things that are visually similar.
But are they genuine ? Probably not.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-305w-Ge...ht_1997wt_2047

The poster here makes a fuss about the combined 150W
rating for the low rails. But what in the machine
actually uses that much power ? Note that there
are four different 780 models, like MT,DT,SFF,USFF
and the smaller units use really goofy supplies.
(One of the reasons I steer people away from
the tiny refurbs - finding supplies is harder.)

https://www.dell.com/community/Deskt...y/td-p/5119091

So the Ebay one has pretty colors, but would be
group regulated and probably not 80% efficient.
It will kick out a bit more heat while running.

There isn't much choice in modern (enthusiast)
PSUs at Newegg, in that they have those horrid
all-black cabling systems, and the double
forward conversion (3.3V and 5V comes from
a separate DC-DC regulator board) tend to
have weaker low voltage rails.

You need the extra power on the low rails,
when you're dealing with a few of the older
AthlonXP systems. Some of those drew 65W from
+5V, which is 13 amps. And a video card could
be another 6 amps, bringing it up to 19 amps
and close to the ~100W limit some of the
double-forward-conversion supplies have.

I measured a couple systems with my clamp-on
ammeter, to get some ballpark numbers. And the
Athlon that used +5V for CPU instead of +12V,
leads to a need for the older supply designs.

But the ones with the higher rating on the
low rails, tend to be the older designs
which are engineered to death (shave every
nickel of cost off the thing). And those don't
always inspire confidence when you use them.

The only way I could prove what the power
draw of the 780 is, would be to measure it
with my clamp-on DC ammeter.

Here's a couple that happen to have slightly better
values on the low rails.

CORSAIR TX-M Series TX650M (CP-9020132-NA) 650W $89

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16817139207

+3.3V @ 25A, +5V @ 25A, +12V @ 51A, -12V @ 0.8A, +5Vsb @ 3A
\-- 150W combined --/

CORSAIR TX-M Series TX550M (CP-9020133-NA) 550W sale today only $55

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16817139210

+3.3V @ 25A, +5V @ 25A, +12V @ 43A, -12V @ 0.8A, +5Vsb @ 3A
\-- 120W combined --/

There are lots of Seasonics (nice ones), where the combined
is only 100W. It's a "standard" with them.

And really, the question is, is 120W needed ? I don't
think so, but I only work here. I usually count 50W combined
as a boilerplate value for a modern PC, unless
there's some reason to guess otherwise. Yes, you
could add all sorts of exotic crap to the machine,
until it tips over :-) I'm making assumptions here
that the machine isn't tricked out, and there are
no monster appliances drawing extra current. Most
of the drain is the CPU +12V and video card +12V.

Those Corsair supplies are semi-modular, which means
the most-used cables are permanently attached, and
a few optional cables are modular and unplug when
not in usage. I think it has 20+4 and 4+4 ATX12V, for
maximum flexibility (I've seen some newer supplies
now where the 24 pin is fixed).

And I think those Corsair supplies have a 140mm long
chassis. Their higher power cousins are 160mm.

You could look for reviews on Jonnyguru.com and see
how they rate. For example, this review is from 2011,
and how many supplies have the same OEM over a seven
year span ? Dunno. Just the pictures, you can see
this isn't the same supply as on Newegg and will be
coming from a different OEM. This one rates 9/10,
but the modern version might not have the same value.

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php...Story&reid=261

This is a review for TX550M V2 from the year 2017.

https://web.archive.org/web/20170623...tx550m/s02.php

If you take that URL and paste it into translate.google.com
you can have it translated to English.

https://translate.google.com/transla...php&edit-text=

"The hold-up time of the Corsair TX550M clearly cuts
below the ATX standard of 16 ms at 8.8 ms. However,
this is not unusual with low-priced models and no
problem for stable power grids. The delay between
Power-Good signal and Spanesgrenze is 2.9 ms and thus
quite high and well above the required 1 ms.
"

And translating that into English for an end-user, if
you use the TX550M V2 with a UPS, if the main power
goes off and the UPS is an SPS (standby power supply
that has actual switching time), the Corsair could
drop the output to zero before the UPS switches
to battery. The (partial) cure for that, is to use
a better UPS with a "zero" switching time. And for the
amount of money that costs, it's better to get a
good PSU instead :-)

Researching these things is exhausting work... You
could spend your entire life doing this. Checking
all the issues, and trying to make a good selection.

*******

If we look at a "premium" unit, the price shoots through
the roof. One reason I didn't show an RMX in my search
results, is because the picture of the PSU label is missing.

Even their spec sheet leaves a lot to be desired.
I think I'm looking at the V1 TX550M here, rather than
the V2 version. And some of the designs list a 10ms hold-up
time, rather than 16ms. The hold up time is at a relatively
heavy load. If you don't have any load on the PSU whatsoever,
the hold-up time extends to around 30 seconds or so.

https://www.corsair.com/corsairmedia...spec-table.pdf

OK, here's the label of an RM550X. *Still* doesn't
show a hold-up time, but does show 130W for the combined.

https://www.ixbt.com/power/psu/photo...00/psu_022.jpg

So now I can show you the price :-) This one is 160mm
long, so about 0.8" longer than the two above. $99

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16817139144

"CORSAIR RMx Series RM550X 550W 80 PLUS GOLD "

Are we having fun yet ? I hate quoting a price
for a PSU, that costs half of what your entire
computer purchase price was :-( But this is the
nature of the business now. Outrageous pricing
is the order of the day. There's at least one
PSU out there, with Gallium Nitride switching
transistors, which is $500. There's no such thing
as too high a purchase price. And they didn't
even make a lot of those units either, so they're
hard to find.

And I still haven't checked whether there are enough
cables or whether they're long enough.

HTH,
Paul
  #6  
Old July 19th 18, 07:28 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mark Twain
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,402
Default O.T. Bad power supply?

I checked all the switches and I also thought of the monitor,
it keeps trying to start-up and the internal light goes on and
off. It's like a car trying to turn over again and again so I
had to unplug the power supply.

I just 'assumed' it was the power supply

Robert
  #7  
Old July 19th 18, 07:54 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mark Twain
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,402
Default O.T. Bad power supply?

What's happening is that when I powered up the
780 today it made this weird noise and instead of
the monitor lighting up it keep restarting or
whatever it was doing. I would see the internal
light flash and a noise and it's stuck in like a
loop (like a car turning over with a dead battery)
so I had to unplug it.

I switched the 780 monitor with the 8500 but it still
did the same thing. So it isn't the monitor.

On the front panel number 1 is blinking and number
3 is going on/off and each time the power button lights
up. It's like in a loop.


I seem to remember now that we discussed this before
and you recommended the Sparkle power supply:

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...9SIA6ZP40S8223

Thoughts/suggestions?

Robert

  #8  
Old July 19th 18, 10:37 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
John Dulak[_2_]
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Posts: 61
Default O.T. Bad power supply?

On 7/19/2018 2:54 PM, Mark Twain wrote:
What's happening is that when I powered up the
780 today it made this weird noise and instead of
the monitor lighting up it keep restarting or
whatever it was doing. I would see the internal
light flash and a noise and it's stuck in like a
loop (like a car turning over with a dead battery)
so I had to unplug it.

I switched the 780 monitor with the 8500 but it still
did the same thing. So it isn't the monitor.

On the front panel number 1 is blinking and number
3 is going on/off and each time the power button lights
up. It's like in a loop.


I seem to remember now that we discussed this before
and you recommended the Sparkle power supply:

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...9SIA6ZP40S8223

Thoughts/suggestions?

Robert


You could also try this site:

https://www.atxpowersupplies.com/

They have a pretty good cross referance search tool;

https://www.atxpowersupplies.com/pow...-reference.php

HTH

John

--
  #9  
Old July 20th 18, 12:26 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
J. P. Gilliver (John)[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,679
Default O.T. Bad power supply?

In message , Mark
Twain writes:
[]
On the front panel number 1 is blinking and number
3 is going on/off and each time the power button lights
up. It's like in a loop.

[]
I have a vague memory that Dells indicate certain faults by various
combinations of light flashes. Might be worth finding a table of those -
would be a pity to pay for a new PSU only to find it's something else.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Less rules means fewer grammar? - Marjorie in UMRA, 2014-1-28 13:14
  #10  
Old July 20th 18, 01:16 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default O.T. Bad power supply?

Mark Twain wrote:
What's happening is that when I powered up the
780 today it made this weird noise and instead of
the monitor lighting up it keep restarting or
whatever it was doing. I would see the internal
light flash and a noise and it's stuck in like a
loop (like a car turning over with a dead battery)
so I had to unplug it.

I switched the 780 monitor with the 8500 but it still
did the same thing. So it isn't the monitor.

On the front panel number 1 is blinking and number
3 is going on/off and each time the power button lights
up. It's like in a loop.


I seem to remember now that we discussed this before
and you recommended the Sparkle power supply:

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...9SIA6ZP40S8223

Thoughts/suggestions?

Robert


Well, the prices are all out of whack. This is an older
group-regulated Sparkle design I used as a replacement for my
first computer. It's $87. It used to be a $50 supply. It
had a fair amount of inrush current when switched on.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...9SIAD6H5EE8267

+3.3V @ 22A, +5V @ 15A, +12V1 @ 18A, +12V2 @ 18A, -12V @ 0.3A, +5VSB @ 2.5A
\-- 145W combined --/ \--- 360W combined ---/

*******

This one is $100 and the wires might be slightly longer.
This one is Active PFC (i.e. nobody cares), and is also
more efficient and would run cooler (slight power bill
saving, less heat in room).

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16817139144

"CORSAIR RMx Series RM550X 550W 80 PLUS GOLD"

+3.3V @ 25A, +5V @ 25A, +12V @ 45.8A, -12V @ 0.8A, +5VSB @ 3A
\-- 130W combined --/

Strangely, the reviews on that one aren't perfect. There
are people with failures in the reviews. Serious failures.

*******

This next one is $80 for the next six hours ($10 below intro price)

https://www.pcper.com/reviews/Cases-...-and-Packaging

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16817438095

"EVGA SuperNOVA 550 G3, 220-G3-0550-Y1, 80+ GOLD, 550W Fully Modular"

+3.3V @ 22A, +5V @ 22A, +12V @ 45.8A, +5Vsb @ 3.0A, -12V @ 0.5A
\-- 110W combined --/

That one only has a few shortcomings.

You have to check there's room in the cutout in the back
of the computer, to make room for the ECO switch. You
want that switch set so the fan is always spinning (non-ECO
mode).

It's a 150mm long supply and modular, with stiff cables.

The combined power rating is 110W.

*******

There are a lot of these to review. And it's annoying to
see products that when they failed, they took out hardware.

Of the three above, I might go with the last one. While
it's "on sale cough". Note that their mail in rebate
scheme is not worth using.

Paul
  #11  
Old July 20th 18, 01:41 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default O.T. Bad power supply?

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Mark
Twain writes:
[]
On the front panel number 1 is blinking and number
3 is going on/off and each time the power button lights
up. It's like in a loop.

[]
I have a vague memory that Dells indicate certain faults by various
combinations of light flashes. Might be worth finding a table of those -
would be a pity to pay for a new PSU only to find it's something else.


There's two pages of code on page 15.

https://downloads.dell.com/manuals/a...ual2_en-us.pdf

It it hands off to OS, the LEDs are supposed to go off.

The lighted LED pattern would remain stable, for a non-power
supply failure.

Paul
  #12  
Old July 20th 18, 02:19 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mark Twain
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,402
Default O.T. Bad power supply?

Good News!

I don't know exactly what happened but I
shut the power off to listen for the beeps
and when I powered it up the 780 came up
normally!

I've had the power supply on/off maybe 2-3
times since I had the problem but this time
it worked! weird,.....

So it was my connection! Jeeeeeez

Anyway,.. thanks for your time and help,


Robert

  #13  
Old July 20th 18, 02:26 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default O.T. Bad power supply?

Mark Twain wrote:
Good News!

I don't know exactly what happened but I
shut the power off to listen for the beeps
and when I powered it up the 780 came up
normally!

I've had the power supply on/off maybe 2-3
times since I had the problem but this time
it worked! weird,.....

So it was my connection! Jeeeeeez

Anyway,.. thanks for your time and help,


Robert


You mean, perhaps, how the line cord plugs
into the PSU ? Sometimes those work loose from
thermal effects.

That can happen to LCD monitors too. Some have
a line cord that plugs in vertically, and the
force of gravity helps the walkout process.

Connectors will "walk out" if they don't have lock
latches. This is why inside the computer, the
ATX12V and main connector, have latches to keep the
connectors affixed to the motherboard.

My Sony Trinitron had a connector walk out and
cause a failure. Examination of the design inside,
showed none of the vast array of connectors had
lock latches. I only had one instance of failure that
way, so I guess they knew what they were doing.

The original Molex four-pin, solved this problem
with extremely high insertion force. Whereas when
knock-off Molex connectors started appearing, they
didn't have the same level of retention. And some
of those worked loose. I had a Molex connector
on a video card work loose, and burn a pin on the
connector.

Paul
  #14  
Old July 20th 18, 10:57 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Mark Twain
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,402
Default O.T. Bad power supply?

No, I meant where it plugs into the APC surge
protector. I had plugged/unplugged it from there
2-3 times and also checked the line cord going into
the PSU in case it had gotten loose.

In any case, it's working again,..whew!

It seems that 'if' I needed a PSU the best
selection would be the EVGA from Newegg for
$80.00.

Since were on the subject, what would be a good
PSU for the 8500 'if' I ever needed one?

http://i65.tinypic.com/689ff6.jpg

http://i65.tinypic.com/29qi4h0.jpg

Thanks,
Robert
  #15  
Old July 20th 18, 01:14 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default O.T. Bad power supply?

Mark Twain wrote:
No, I meant where it plugs into the APC surge
protector. I had plugged/unplugged it from there
2-3 times and also checked the line cord going into
the PSU in case it had gotten loose.

In any case, it's working again,..whew!

It seems that 'if' I needed a PSU the best
selection would be the EVGA from Newegg for
$80.00.

Since were on the subject, what would be a good
PSU for the 8500 'if' I ever needed one?

http://i65.tinypic.com/689ff6.jpg

http://i65.tinypic.com/29qi4h0.jpg

Thanks,
Robert


Your first picture.

AC460AD-01 460W max

+3.3V @ 17A, +5V @ 25A, +12V @ 32A, -12V @ 0.3A, +5Vsb @ 3A
\-- 142W combined --/

It's the same story as the Optiplex 780. A fairly hefty
low rail combined rating, made available for unknown reasons.

Your processor is 77W TDP, your video card I don't think
is a 200W unit (a Geforce210 maybe 31W ?). There's not going to be
a huge 12V load as a result.

The label on that thing smacks of over-engineering, at
least for the default configuration. If you put a 200W
gaming video card in the machine, then that PSU makes
more sense (for the +12V current level).

And your motherboard loading isn't going to get close
to the 142W limit. Even a 100W combined Seasonic is likely
to be sufficient. I don't see the hardware in the box
to draw 25 amps from +5V.

What ever you buy for the Optiplex 780, is likely
to be good enough for your other machine. The only
exception to the rule, might be physical dimensions
(if there isn't room for it), cable length, or
not enough cables to suit your 8500 internal wiring.

The cabling on supplies today, doesn't make me all that
happy, as I'd prefer Molex, then use SATA adapters
on the end of the Molex. If I wear out the SATA power
connector on the extender, I just unplug it and use
a new one. And the PSU then doesn't suffer nearly
as much wear and tear.

*******

This is my real spare. SeaSonic S12II 620 $80
That's a 130W combined on the low rails.

https://www.newegg.ca/Product/Produc...82E16817151096

3.3V @ 24A, +5V @ 24A, +12V1 @ 24A, +12V2 @ 24A, -12V @ 0.8A, +5VSB @ 2.5A
\-- 130W combined --/

This is what I picked up when the old P4 box
wasn't working right. An EVGA SuperNOVA 650 G2.
I don't think the price was quite this high
when I bought mine. I found the cabling to be a damn
nuisance. Even though the cabling is modular, it
still gets in the way.

https://www.newegg.ca/Product/Produc...82E16817438054

+3.3V @ 24A, +5V @ 22A, +12V @ 54.1A, +5VSB @ 3.0A, -12V @ 0.5A
\-- 110W combined --/

I would think that Seasonic would match either
of your machines.

Paul
 




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