Windows is hibernating

Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 10/02/2019 05.54, T wrote:
On 2/9/19 6:53 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 09/02/2019 23.44, T wrote:
On 2/9/19 12:22 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 09/02/2019 16.14, Rich wrote:
In comp.os.linux.misc T wrote:
After shutting Windows back down and rebooting into Linux,
I still could not mount the C: drive as read/write.

What am I doing wrong?
Are you mounting, in Linux, as ntfs or ntfs-3g?

The 'ntfs' Linux driver is read only.

The 'ntfs-3g' Linux driver is the read/write driver.

But, unless you ask mount to use ntfs-3g specifically, the
auto-detected default (at least on the one system I've got where I
mount an ntfs formatted USB drive [left as ntfs for compatibility with
a winblows system]) is 'ntfs'.
Depends on the distribution; for example on openSUSE the default is
ntfs-3g.

This is the only instance I have not been able to mount an NTFS
read/write with Fedora.

$ cat /etc/redhat-release
Fedora release 29 (Twenty Nine)

$ rpm -qa ntfs\*
ntfs-3g-2017.3.23-8.fc29.x86_64
ntfsprogs-2017.3.23-8.fc29.x86_64
That doesn't mean much, as the 'ntfs' driver is not an rpm, but part of
the kernel.

You have to issue "mount" to see how it is really mounted. Maybe it says
"fuse", then it is correct.

# mount -t ntfs /dev/sdc1 /mnt/MyCDs

# mount | grep /dev/sdc1
/dev/sdc1 on /mnt/MyCDs type fuseblk (rw,relatime,user_id=0,group_id=0,allow_other,blks ize=4096)

Ok, that is ntfs-3g, mounted read/write apparently.

And then it's going to depend on where he attempts to write,
as to whether any weird errors show up. Don't do write
tests in WinSXS or System32, due to the landmines in there.
Test in /media/mount/Win10/users/username/Downloads or something.
As there shouldn't be any newstyle NTFS compression extended
attributes in there to screw things up. I had the file manager
(thunar or similar), stop painting the file list as soon
as it got an "I/O error" because of stuff like that. Any
decent file manager should behave exactly the same way.

The Paragon driver is a version of the fuse driver, where
Paragon has fixed only one of the three or so problems with
reparse points. I can't recommend that as a "panacea" for
the NTFS mess.

Fedora commented out the MFTMIRR problem in their distro,
something which Ubuntu hasn't done (yet).

The "hibernation problem" is not a bug, so don't expect
that to go away. You shouldn't be editing a hibernated
volume, due to the possibility there are still open
files on the volume from the hibernated session.
Doing a "clean" shutdown, is the recommended approach.

But nobody has reverse engineered these Reparse Points
enough, to fix the current limitations on Linux access
to Win10 C: drives. I've not heard of anyone attempting
to reverse engineer the reparse points, because if
the nitwits at Microsoft find out, they'll only change
the metadata on the next release. Since reparse points
are not standardized, there's really no reason to keep
anything about them constant from one release to another.

If Microsoft is doing this to make it impossible to "remove"
certain subsystems in a Win10 image, I'd say they're doing
a damn good job. I'm sure if one of the web sites interviewed
one of their developers, he'd tell us "we haven't a clue
what we're doing"... and I'd believe him.

Paul

On Fri, 8 Feb 2019 16:57:52 -0800, T wrote:

Dear Windows and Linux newsgroups,

I have a cross platform issue so I am cross posting.

Last week I booted two separate Windows 10 computer off a
Fedora 29 Xfce Live USB stick. I was able to
mount the Windows NTFS main drive, but only as
"read only". I could see everything and did (I was
not in one of those screw ball hidden Windows
partitions), but could not touch anything.

After unmounting, I went to clear the dirty flag (from linux),

# ntfsfix -d device (/dev/sda1)

I got as message as that the dirty flag could not
be cleared because "Windows is hibernating".

I went back into Windows, made sure the "Fast Boot"
option was off (I had been on these machines before)
and it was still off. Then I ran a

chkdsk c: /f

from Windows and rebooted, letting chkdsk run its course.

After shutting Windows back down and rebooting into Linux,
I still could not mount the C: drive as read/write.

What am I doing wrong?

Many thanks,
-T

I confess I haven't read through the entire thread. Apologies if this
has already been suggested or ruled out.

Do you have hybrid sleep enabled? Recent Ubuntu on my dual boot
machines and/or when booting Ubuntu live mis-identifies the Win
partition as dirty if that's enabled - even though it's not in use and
Win has been fully shut down.

--
William D Waddington

"Even bugs...are unexpected signposts on
the long road of creativity..." - Ken Burtch

On 2/10/19 7:31 AM, Bill Waddington wrote:
On Fri, 8 Feb 2019 16:57:52 -0800, T wrote:

Dear Windows and Linux newsgroups,

I have a cross platform issue so I am cross posting.

Last week I booted two separate Windows 10 computer off a
Fedora 29 Xfce Live USB stick. I was able to
mount the Windows NTFS main drive, but only as
"read only". I could see everything and did (I was
not in one of those screw ball hidden Windows
partitions), but could not touch anything.

After unmounting, I went to clear the dirty flag (from linux),

# ntfsfix -d device (/dev/sda1)

I got as message as that the dirty flag could not
be cleared because "Windows is hibernating".

I went back into Windows, made sure the "Fast Boot"
option was off (I had been on these machines before)
and it was still off. Then I ran a

chkdsk c: /f

from Windows and rebooted, letting chkdsk run its course.

After shutting Windows back down and rebooting into Linux,
I still could not mount the C: drive as read/write.

What am I doing wrong?

Many thanks,
-T

I confess I haven't read through the entire thread. Apologies if this
has already been suggested or ruled out.

Do you have hybrid sleep enabled? Recent Ubuntu on my dual boot
machines and/or when booting Ubuntu live mis-identifies the Win
partition as dirty if that's enabled - even though it's not in use and
Win has been fully shut down.


Even late replies are apperceived. The consensus is that Windows
has the hard drive set to hibernate. And That I have to
manually turn it off with (admin CMD shell).

powercfg.exe /hibernate off

It is all documented in my notes. Now I have to wait for my
next Windows 10 machine to give me a hassle.

I do like to be able to edit the registry and clean off ALL the
*.tmp files in Linux Live as any nefarious software running on
Windows is not running and can't protect itself.

On 2/8/19 4:57 PM, T wrote:
Dear Windows and Linux newsgroups,

I have a cross platform issue so I am cross posting.

Last week I booted two separate Windows 10 computer off a
Fedora 29 Xfce Live USB stick. I was able to
mount the Windows NTFS main drive, but only as
"read only".Â* I could see everything and did (I was
not in one of those screw ball hidden Windows
partitions), but could not touch anything.

After unmounting, I went to clear the dirty flag (from linux),

Â*Â*Â* # ntfsfix -d deviceÂ*Â*Â* (/dev/sda1)

I got as message as that the dirty flag could not
be cleared because "Windows is hibernating".

I went back into Windows, made sure the "Fast Boot"
option was off (I had been on these machines before)
and it was still off.Â* Then I ran a

Â*Â*Â* chkdsk c: /f

from Windows and rebooted, letting chkdsk run its course.

After shutting Windows back down and rebooting into Linux,
I still could not mount the C: drive as read/write.

What am I doing wrong?

Many thanks,
-T

My new notes, thank you all for your help!

NTFS Notes: if you can't seem to mount a Windows C: drive as anything other
that Read Only, it may be in hybernation or have its dirty flag set:

Hybernation:
1) go back into Windows
a) turn off "Fast Boot",
b) from an admintrator's cmd shell: powercfg.exe
/hibernate off
c) to get it to take, do a real reboot with "shutdown.exe
/r /f /t 00"

To fix a dirty flag on NTFS:
# ntfsfix -d device (/dev/sda1)
Note: you may have to go back into Windows and
a) turn off "Fast Boot",
b) run "chkdsk c: /f", and
c) to get it to take, do a real reboot with "shutdown.exe
/r /f /t 00"

On 02/08/19 16:57, T wrote:
Dear Windows and Linux newsgroups,

I have a cross platform issue so I am cross posting.

Last week I booted two separate Windows 10 computer off a
Fedora 29 Xfce Live USB stick. I was able to
mount the Windows NTFS main drive, but only as
"read only". I could see everything and did (I was
not in one of those screw ball hidden Windows
partitions), but could not touch anything.

After unmounting, I went to clear the dirty flag (from linux),

# ntfsfix -d device (/dev/sda1)

I got as message as that the dirty flag could not
be cleared because "Windows is hibernating".

I went back into Windows, made sure the "Fast Boot"
option was off (I had been on these machines before)
and it was still off. Then I ran a

chkdsk c: /f

from Windows and rebooted, letting chkdsk run its course.

After shutting Windows back down and rebooting into Linux,
I still could not mount the C: drive as read/write.

What am I doing wrong?

Many thanks,
-T

this is an old bug with respect to multi-boot systems. As I understand
it, you may not be doing a proper shutdown but using some kind of
'hibernate' like when you set things up for a "fast reboot".

Normally I'd say to turn that 'fast reboot' thing off, and do a full
reboot every time. But you said you actually DID that. So apparently
NOT, then...

I have to wonder if your Linux NTFS driver is read-only on NTFS. Are
you using the native kernel module or the Fuse FS driver? Fuse FS
should be read/write. A native kernel module version might be read-only.

I haven't multi-booted windows + Linux (or FreeBSD) in quite some time,
preferring instead to just use Linux (or FreeBSD) ALL of the time with
windows in a VM when I need it. But I've read about this
hibernate-related problem before. And I also know that _SOME_ NTFS
drivers for Linux and other OS's won't mount read-write. The best one
to use is probably the FuseFS one anyway.

https://superuser.com/questions/1394...ver-vs-ntfs-3g


--
(aka 'Bombastic Bob' in case you wondered)

'Feeling with my fingers, and thinking with my brain' - me

'your story is so touching, but it sounds just like a lie'
"Straighten up and fly right"

On 12/02/2019 07:38, Big Bad Bob wrote:
On 02/08/19 16:57, T wrote:
Dear Windows and Linux newsgroups,

I have a cross platform issue so I am cross posting.

Last week I booted two separate Windows 10 computer off a
Fedora 29 Xfce Live USB stick. I was able to
mount the Windows NTFS main drive, but only as
"read only".Â* I could see everything and did (I was
not in one of those screw ball hidden Windows
partitions), but could not touch anything.

After unmounting, I went to clear the dirty flag (from linux),

Â*Â*Â*Â* # ntfsfix -d deviceÂ*Â*Â* (/dev/sda1)

I got as message as that the dirty flag could not
be cleared because "Windows is hibernating".

I went back into Windows, made sure the "Fast Boot"
option was off (I had been on these machines before)
and it was still off.Â* Then I ran a

Â*Â*Â*Â* chkdsk c: /f

from Windows and rebooted, letting chkdsk run its course.

After shutting Windows back down and rebooting into Linux,
I still could not mount the C: drive as read/write.

What am I doing wrong?

Many thanks,
-T

this is an old bug with respect to multi-boot systems.Â* As I understand
it, you may not be doing a proper shutdown but using some kind of
'hibernate' like when you set things up for a "fast reboot".

Normally I'd say to turn that 'fast reboot' thing off, and do a full
reboot every time.Â* But you said you actually DID that.Â* So apparently
NOT, then...


If you need to use windows and linux on a regular basis dont multiboot,
would be my advice.

Use virtualbox and keep all your data on the linux side - just have
enough disk in the virttualbox to boot windows. You can then see the
linux drive system as a (very fast!) network share in windows.

This is in every way bit one a superiors solution to a hybrid environemnt.

The exception is playing games.


--
If I had all the money I've spent on drink...
...I'd spend it on drink.

Sir Henry (at Rawlinson's End)

On 2/11/19 11:38 PM, Big Bad Bob wrote:
On 02/08/19 16:57, T wrote:
Dear Windows and Linux newsgroups,

I have a cross platform issue so I am cross posting.

Last week I booted two separate Windows 10 computer off a
Fedora 29 Xfce Live USB stick. I was able to
mount the Windows NTFS main drive, but only as
"read only".Â* I could see everything and did (I was
not in one of those screw ball hidden Windows
partitions), but could not touch anything.

After unmounting, I went to clear the dirty flag (from linux),

Â*Â*Â*Â* # ntfsfix -d deviceÂ*Â*Â* (/dev/sda1)

I got as message as that the dirty flag could not
be cleared because "Windows is hibernating".

I went back into Windows, made sure the "Fast Boot"
option was off (I had been on these machines before)
and it was still off.Â* Then I ran a

Â*Â*Â*Â* chkdsk c: /f

from Windows and rebooted, letting chkdsk run its course.

After shutting Windows back down and rebooting into Linux,
I still could not mount the C: drive as read/write.

What am I doing wrong?

Many thanks,
-T

this is an old bug with respect to multi-boot systems.Â* As I understand
it, you may not be doing a proper shutdown but using some kind of
'hibernate' like when you set things up for a "fast reboot".

Normally I'd say to turn that 'fast reboot' thing off, and do a full
reboot every time.Â* But you said you actually DID that.Â* So apparently
NOT, then...

I have to wonder if your Linux NTFS driver is read-only on NTFS.

It is read/write on tons of other systems. Same Live USB

Are
you using the native kernel module or the Fuse FS driver?Â* Fuse FS
should be read/write.Â* A native kernel module version might be read-only.

I haven't multi-booted windows + Linux (or FreeBSD) in quite some time,
preferring instead to just use Linux (or FreeBSD) ALL of the time with
windows in a VM when I need it.Â* But I've read about this
hibernate-related problem before.Â* And I also know that _SOME_ NTFS
drivers for Linux and other OS's won't mount read-write.Â* The best one
to use is probably the FuseFS one anyway.

https://superuser.com/questions/1394...ver-vs-ntfs-3g

On 2/11/19 11:47 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 12/02/2019 07:38, Big Bad Bob wrote:
On 02/08/19 16:57, T wrote:
Dear Windows and Linux newsgroups,

I have a cross platform issue so I am cross posting.

Last week I booted two separate Windows 10 computer off a
Fedora 29 Xfce Live USB stick. I was able to
mount the Windows NTFS main drive, but only as
"read only".Â* I could see everything and did (I was
not in one of those screw ball hidden Windows
partitions), but could not touch anything.

After unmounting, I went to clear the dirty flag (from linux),

Â*Â*Â*Â* # ntfsfix -d deviceÂ*Â*Â* (/dev/sda1)

I got as message as that the dirty flag could not
be cleared because "Windows is hibernating".

I went back into Windows, made sure the "Fast Boot"
option was off (I had been on these machines before)
and it was still off.Â* Then I ran a

Â*Â*Â*Â* chkdsk c: /f

from Windows and rebooted, letting chkdsk run its course.

After shutting Windows back down and rebooting into Linux,
I still could not mount the C: drive as read/write.

What am I doing wrong?

Many thanks,
-T

this is an old bug with respect to multi-boot systems.Â* As I
understand it, you may not be doing a proper shutdown but using some
kind of 'hibernate' like when you set things up for a "fast reboot".

Normally I'd say to turn that 'fast reboot' thing off, and do a full
reboot every time.Â* But you said you actually DID that.Â* So apparently
NOT, then...


If you need to use windows and linux on a regular basis dont multiboot,
would be my advice.

Use virtualbox and keep all your data on the linux side - just have
enough disk in the virttualbox to boot windows. You can then see the
linux drive system as a (very fast!) network share in windows.

This is in every way bit one a superiors solution to a hybrid environemnt.

On 12/02/2019 08.38, Big Bad Bob wrote:
On 02/08/19 16:57, T wrote:


I have to wonder if your Linux NTFS driver is read-only on NTFS.Â* Are
you using the native kernel module or the Fuse FS driver?Â* Fuse FS
should be read/write.Â* A native kernel module version might be read-only.

We have already determined it is fuse, per mount command output:

]
] # mount -t ntfs /dev/sdc1 /mnt/MyCDs
]
] # mount | grep /dev/sdc1
] /dev/sdc1 on /mnt/MyCDs type fuseblk
(rw,relatime,user_id=0,group_id=0,allow_other,blks ize=4096)


--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 12/02/2019 08.47, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 12/02/2019 07:38, Big Bad Bob wrote:
On 02/08/19 16:57, T wrote:

....

If you need to use windows and linux on a regular basis dont multiboot,
would be my advice.

Use virtualbox and keep all your data on the linux side - just have
enough disk in the virttualbox to boot windows. You can then see the
linux drive system as a (very fast!) network share in windows.

Yes, but this demands more resources from the machine, as you are
effectively running two operating systems simultaneously.


This is in every way bit one a superiors solution to a hybrid environemnt.

The exception is playing games.

The exception is any resource hungry application: high CPU/RAM/Disk i/o.

If the computer has little ram to start with, well... no.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 2/12/19 2:12 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Yes, but this demands more resources from the machine, as you are
effectively running two operating systems simultaneously.

Make the machine that is doing the most work the host.

Count your running applications, just as you would
on a native only machine

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

If you need to use windows and linux on a regular basis dont multiboot,
would be my advice.

Use virtualbox and keep all your data on the linux side - just have
enough disk in the virttualbox to boot windows. You can then see the
linux drive system as a (very fast!) network share in windows.

This is in every way bit one a superiors solution to a hybrid environemnt.

The exception is playing games.

I think you're saying you don't want to learn anything.

I don't have a problem mixing them, and I made my
mistakes as I went along. ("Doh!")

P.S. Do a backup before you *touch* a Debian ISO :-/

Paul

On 12/02/2019 11.23, T wrote:
On 2/12/19 2:12 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Yes, but this demands more resources from the machine, as you are
effectively running two operating systems simultaneously.

Make the machine that is doing the most work the host.

The typical criteria is make the system that you use most the host.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 12/02/2019 10:53, Paul wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

If you need to use windows and linux on a regular basis dont
multiboot, would be my advice.

Use virtualbox and keep all your data on the linux side - just have
enough disk in the virttualbox to boot windows. You can then see the
linux drive system as a (very fast!) network share in windows.

This is in every way bit one a superiors solution to a hybrid
environemnt.

The exception is playing games.

I think you're saying you don't want to learn anything.

No. I am not saying I don’t want to learn anything. I am saying that if
you want to use two operating systems in a particular way, dual booting
is not the best way of doing it.


I don't have a problem mixing them, and I made my
mistakes as I went along. ("Doh!")


Neither do I, but then I don’t dual boot them,.

P.S. Do a backup before you *touch* a Debian ISO :-/


???? what ????

backup of WHAT. I install Linux on bare metal..

Â*Â* Paul



--
Gun Control: The law that ensures that only criminals have guns.

No, it's just a zombie.