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Advice on maximising lifetime (charge cycles) of laptop battery



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 24th 18, 11:17 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
NY
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 586
Default Advice on maximising lifetime (charge cycles) of laptop battery

Given that many modern laptops have an internal, non-removable battery that
cannot be exchanged when it stops holding its charge, what advice would
people give for maximising the lifetime of a battery? Every laptop I've
owned (98. XP, Vista, 7) has suffered from a battery that has a reduced life
(time that laptop will run on battery having been charged to 100%) which
soon degenerates into a battery which refuses to hold any charge at all, so
the laptop can only be used on mains.

In each case, the battery has been whatever the manufacturer (HP, Acer,
Samsung) has supplied, although when a battery has died, I've sometimes
replaced it with a cheap Chinese clone and not noticed that this dies any
sooner than the one that was supplied with the laptop.

I use my laptop mainly at a desk, where mains power is available, and I want
to leave my laptop in a state where the battery is reasonably fully charged
so I can always use it on battery at a moment's notice, without first having
to charge it for an hour or so.

I tend to run the laptop on mains when I'm using it (which charges the
battery) but I unplug it from mains when I notice that the battery is full
or once I've finished using it - so it does not spend many hours, days or
weeks being charged after it has reached 100%. Every week or so I run the
laptop on battery until the charge is down to about 20%, and then recharge
it - so the battery does go through partial discharge/charge cycles and does
not spend all its life at 100% charge.

Is there anything I should be doing differently so the battery won't die
after a couple of years? With an older laptop I could just replace the
battery, but it's more difficult when the battery is non-removable.

Should I run the laptop more often on battery (even when mains is available)
and accept that sometimes I will find that the battery is only partly
charged when I'd really want it full for maximum usage away from a mains
supply?

Ads
  #2  
Old June 24th 18, 12:30 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
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Posts: 11,873
Default Advice on maximising lifetime (charge cycles) of laptop battery

NY wrote:
Given that many modern laptops have an internal, non-removable battery
that cannot be exchanged when it stops holding its charge, what advice
would people give for maximising the lifetime of a battery? Every laptop
I've owned (98. XP, Vista, 7) has suffered from a battery that has a
reduced life (time that laptop will run on battery having been charged
to 100%) which soon degenerates into a battery which refuses to hold any
charge at all, so the laptop can only be used on mains.

In each case, the battery has been whatever the manufacturer (HP, Acer,
Samsung) has supplied, although when a battery has died, I've sometimes
replaced it with a cheap Chinese clone and not noticed that this dies
any sooner than the one that was supplied with the laptop.

I use my laptop mainly at a desk, where mains power is available, and I
want to leave my laptop in a state where the battery is reasonably fully
charged so I can always use it on battery at a moment's notice, without
first having to charge it for an hour or so.

I tend to run the laptop on mains when I'm using it (which charges the
battery) but I unplug it from mains when I notice that the battery is
full or once I've finished using it - so it does not spend many hours,
days or weeks being charged after it has reached 100%. Every week or so
I run the laptop on battery until the charge is down to about 20%, and
then recharge it - so the battery does go through partial
discharge/charge cycles and does not spend all its life at 100% charge.

Is there anything I should be doing differently so the battery won't die
after a couple of years? With an older laptop I could just replace the
battery, but it's more difficult when the battery is non-removable.

Should I run the laptop more often on battery (even when mains is
available) and accept that sometimes I will find that the battery is
only partly charged when I'd really want it full for maximum usage away
from a mains supply?


You can get the necessary information from this site.

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/a..._ion_batteries

*******

Store the battery at 60-70% charge. Storing the battery at an
even lower capacity would be better, but there is also a danger
it could self-discharge so low, that the charger would never
charge it again. If you left it at 70%, you could come back
three months later and check how much is left. And restore
it to the correct condition again.

This process reduces the long term per-cell voltage to a
less damaging level.

NiCd had a "memory" effect. This is why we were discharging
them and charging them up again, so there wouldn't be
capacity loss from being left at some intermediate state.

Whereas Lithium doesn't have "memory".

You don't have to "exercise" the battery, by running it down
into the drink and charging it up again.

It would be just as happy going from 70% to 60% and back to
70%, if that's what the usage requirements dictated. You
don't have to make an extra effort to run it down to 20%
to combat a perceived "memory" effect.

One thing that running the battery down to 0% does, is it gives
the fuel gauge a chance to calibrate.

If you own a UPS, you can run the laptop off the adapter
via the UPS, and just leave the battery unplugged. Then you're not
constantly playing with the battery like it was a yoyo :-)
The UPS takes the place of the battery in the event the
AC power goes off, and gives you time to shutdown.

You can shut down and insert the battery and go mobile.
Windows 10 has various options for session saving
(hibernation would be just one example).

Some laptops actually have a control to set the
charging policy. Mine doesn't have that, and my
laptop always tries to charge to 100%. But some
laptops allow avoiding the "saturation charge" portion
of the charge curve, and they stop at around 80% charge.
That was a charging option specifically invented to
enhance battery lifetimes.

The absolute worst thing you can do, is force it
to stay at 100% all the time.

For safety reasons, you can't charge it above 100%,
but you also cannot discharge it below 0%. If you
discharge it to 0%, then throw the battery in a
closet for 3 months, the charge level could be
so low at that point, that the charger refuses
to charge it.

Single cell packs (used in digital cameras), allow
discharge all the way down to 0 volts. I actually
had that happen on my digital camera - it apparently
wasn't switched off after using USB transfer mode,
and I found precisely 0 volts on it the next time
I tried to use it. The charger was perfectly happy
to recharge that single cell.

Laptops on the other hand, use multiple cells. The
"won't charge a too low battery" rule exists, to
prevent a battery from plating out metallic
Lithium, which is a fire hazard. The "explosion"
risk would come from the vent not opening in
time, if there is pressure buildup. The cells
(and the pack) have various safety features
to control the side effects.

Paul
  #3  
Old June 24th 18, 02:01 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,718
Default Advice on maximising lifetime (charge cycles) of laptop battery

In article , NY
wrote:

Given that many modern laptops have an internal, non-removable battery that
cannot be exchanged when it stops holding its charge, what advice would
people give for maximising the lifetime of a battery?


the battery can be removed and replaced, it just requires a screwdriver
and something that is not needed very often.

Every laptop I've
owned (98. XP, Vista, 7) has suffered from a battery that has a reduced life
(time that laptop will run on battery having been charged to 100%) which
soon degenerates into a battery which refuses to hold any charge at all, so
the laptop can only be used on mains.


battery technology has greatly improved since the win98/xp days.

today's batteries are rated to last 5 years at 80% capacity, which is
longer than the useful life of the laptop but still very usable.
  #4  
Old June 24th 18, 02:02 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,718
Default Advice on maximising lifetime (charge cycles) of laptop battery

In article , KenW
wrote:

Today's laptops stop charging when the battery is at 100%. At least
that is what the indicators show.


all battery operated products stop charging when the battery is fully
charged.

otherwise, bad things happen, like fires and explosions, and customers
don't like that very much.
  #5  
Old June 24th 18, 02:24 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Frank Slootweg
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,226
Default Advice on maximising lifetime (charge cycles) of laptop battery

NY wrote:
Given that many modern laptops have an internal, non-removable battery that
cannot be exchanged when it stops holding its charge, what advice would
people give for maximising the lifetime of a battery? Every laptop I've
owned (98. XP, Vista, 7) has suffered from a battery that has a reduced life
(time that laptop will run on battery having been charged to 100%) which
soon degenerates into a battery which refuses to hold any charge at all, so
the laptop can only be used on mains.

In each case, the battery has been whatever the manufacturer (HP, Acer,
Samsung) has supplied, although when a battery has died, I've sometimes
replaced it with a cheap Chinese clone and not noticed that this dies any
sooner than the one that was supplied with the laptop.

I use my laptop mainly at a desk, where mains power is available, and I want
to leave my laptop in a state where the battery is reasonably fully charged
so I can always use it on battery at a moment's notice, without first having
to charge it for an hour or so.

I tend to run the laptop on mains when I'm using it (which charges the
battery) but I unplug it from mains when I notice that the battery is full
or once I've finished using it - so it does not spend many hours, days or
weeks being charged after it has reached 100%. Every week or so I run the
laptop on battery until the charge is down to about 20%, and then recharge
it - so the battery does go through partial discharge/charge cycles and does
not spend all its life at 100% charge.

Is there anything I should be doing differently so the battery won't die
after a couple of years? With an older laptop I could just replace the
battery, but it's more difficult when the battery is non-removable.

Should I run the laptop more often on battery (even when mains is available)
and accept that sometimes I will find that the battery is only partly
charged when I'd really want it full for maximum usage away from a mains
supply?


In addition to Paul's response - which covers most of the issues -,
you might want to read the thread "charging to 80 or 90%" of March 16 in
comp.mobile.android.

That thread is about phones/tablets, but they use the same battery
technology, so most is also applicable to laptops. The thread is only
122 articles, so an easy read! :-)

FWIW, I will be follwing *this* thread, because I'm also a
stationary-laptop user and 'hence' a battery-abuser.
  #6  
Old June 24th 18, 04:02 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Stephen Wolstenholme[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 275
Default Advice on maximising lifetime (charge cycles) of laptop battery

On Sun, 24 Jun 2018 09:02:00 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , KenW
wrote:

Today's laptops stop charging when the battery is at 100%. At least
that is what the indicators show.


all battery operated products stop charging when the battery is fully
charged.

otherwise, bad things happen, like fires and explosions, and customers
don't like that very much.


That'd why some UK airlines do not allow laptops and some mobile
telephones in cabin luggage.

Steve

--
http://www.npsnn.com

  #7  
Old June 24th 18, 04:21 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,718
Default Advice on maximising lifetime (charge cycles) of laptop battery

In article , Stephen
Wolstenholme wrote:


Today's laptops stop charging when the battery is at 100%. At least
that is what the indicators show.


all battery operated products stop charging when the battery is fully
charged.

otherwise, bad things happen, like fires and explosions, and customers
don't like that very much.


That'd why some UK airlines do not allow laptops and some mobile
telephones in cabin luggage.


you mean in checked bags put into the cargo hold (and that ruling may
change).

batteries are allowed in the cabin, where any fire would immediately be
noticed and extinguished via any of the several fire extinguishers on
board by the flight crew trained in using them.
  #8  
Old June 24th 18, 05:02 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Char Jackson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,449
Default Advice on maximising lifetime (charge cycles) of laptop battery

On Sun, 24 Jun 2018 07:30:21 -0400, Paul wrote:

Store the battery at 60-70% charge. Storing the battery at an
even lower capacity would be better, but there is also a danger
it could self-discharge so low, that the charger would never
charge it again. If you left it at 70%, you could come back
three months later and check how much is left. And restore
it to the correct condition again.

snip

Agreed.

Some laptops actually have a control to set the
charging policy. Mine doesn't have that, and my
laptop always tries to charge to 100%. But some
laptops allow avoiding the "saturation charge" portion
of the charge curve, and they stop at around 80% charge.
That was a charging option specifically invented to
enhance battery lifetimes.


My Dell Inspiron has a "Dell Extended Battery Life" power profile that
keeps the battery between 60-70% about 95% of the time. Every so often
it allows the charge to dip to 50% or rise to 100%, but it mostly just
goes back and forth between 60% and 70%. The laptop is over 5 years old
and the original battery still gives me over 2 hours runtime, which is
all I ever asked of it even when it was new.

To the OP: What kind of laptop has a battery that is not easily
replaceable? Tablets and phones, but now laptops, too?

  #9  
Old June 24th 18, 06:47 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Bill Bradshaw
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 282
Default Advice on maximising lifetime (charge cycles) of laptop battery

I also put my battery in a ziplock bag and in the refrigerator. Luckily my
battery has an indicator that I can look at to see the charge level. I am
not sure what discharge level you should let it reach but I do not let it go
below 20%. This battery is 9 years old and still gives decent service.
--
Bill

Brought to you from Anchorage, Alaska

Stefan Ram wrote:
Frank Slootweg writes:
In addition to Paul's response - which covers most of the issues -,
you might want to read the thread "charging to 80 or 90%" of March
16 in comp.mobile.android.


What I remember to have read:

- At the very start of use, the battery should be charged up to 100 %
once. (Also remember: discharged to nearly 0 % and then charged to
100 % once. But usually such discharges to nearly 0% should be
avoided.)

- Avoid severe discharges (to nearly 0%).

- The lifetime will be best when the battery is charged to about 50
%. So to maximize lifetime in use, try to charge to 60 % and
discharge to 40 % if you can get by using only a part of the
capacity (or charge to 70 % and discharge to 30 % if you need more
energy). Avoid extremes above 80 % and - most of all - of below 20
%.

- I observed that a battery that was always charged to about 60 %
seems to have lost nearly all of its capacity. Maybe from time to
time (once a year?), there should be a major discharge and a major
charge? (Just my guess)

- If a battery is not needed at all, lifetime is maximized if it is
put (with 50 % charge? - my guess) into an air-tight plastic bag
and then into the refrigerator (but not below 0 degrees of
Celsius?).

These are just vague memories; I am not an expert.



  #10  
Old June 24th 18, 06:51 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
ghyrpejsekieddrjiljhy
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Posts: 4
Default Advice on maximising lifetime (charge cycles) of laptop battery

On 6/24/2018 3:17 AM, NY wrote:

Is there anything I should be doing differently so the battery won't
die after a couple of years?


My phone came with a turbo charger that will fully charge my depleted
battery in an hour or so. I've often wondered the same thing. Should I
use a standard charger to save on battery life because it seemed to me
the fast charge would add extra stress to the battery? I settled on
using the standard charger overnight and the turbo charger when I needed
the quick charge. Then I read that overnight charging is bad. So I tried
wireless charging but then the phone became very hot so that seemed bad
also. Can't win.

Bottom line: I said screw it and just used whatever was convenient. The
battery is now 2 years old and I notice no difference from when it was
new... :-/
  #11  
Old June 24th 18, 06:51 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
ghyrpejsekieddrjiljhy
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Posts: 4
Default Advice on maximising lifetime (charge cycles) of laptop battery

On 6/24/2018 6:01 AM, nospam wrote:

the battery can be removed and replaced, it just requires a
screwdriver and something that is not needed very often.


If by "something that is not needed very often" you mean special tools
they may come with the replacement battery as they did in my recent
battery replacement:

The wife's iPhone battery swelled up so much it popped the case
open by a quarter inch. I left it stored on a metal cookie sheet (as I
was worried about fire) until I got and installed a new battery. The old
battery looked and felt like a mylar balloon when removed. The new
battery was $30 USD including the tools so it didn't set me back too much.
  #12  
Old June 24th 18, 07:25 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,718
Default Advice on maximising lifetime (charge cycles) of laptop battery

In article , ghyrpejsekieddrjiljhy
wrote:


the battery can be removed and replaced, it just requires a
screwdriver and something that is not needed very often.


If by "something that is not needed very often" you mean special tools
they may come with the replacement battery as they did in my recent
battery replacement:


sometimes the tools are included as part of a kit and sometimes they're
not.

The wife's iPhone battery swelled up so much it popped the case
open by a quarter inch. I left it stored on a metal cookie sheet (as I
was worried about fire) until I got and installed a new battery. The old
battery looked and felt like a mylar balloon when removed. The new
battery was $30 USD including the tools so it didn't set me back too much.


that's a defective battery and apple will replace it for no charge, as
it poses a danger to you and those around you.

normal wear and tear, however, is not covered.
  #13  
Old June 24th 18, 07:27 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Stephen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 34
Default Advice on maximising lifetime (charge cycles) of laptop battery

On Sun, 24 Jun 2018 11:02:09 -0500, Char Jackson
wrote:

On Sun, 24 Jun 2018 07:30:21 -0400, Paul wrote:

Store the battery at 60-70% charge. Storing the battery at an
even lower capacity would be better, but there is also a danger
it could self-discharge so low, that the charger would never
charge it again. If you left it at 70%, you could come back
three months later and check how much is left. And restore
it to the correct condition again.

snip

Agreed.

Some laptops actually have a control to set the
charging policy. Mine doesn't have that, and my
laptop always tries to charge to 100%. But some
laptops allow avoiding the "saturation charge" portion
of the charge curve, and they stop at around 80% charge.
That was a charging option specifically invented to
enhance battery lifetimes.


My Dell Inspiron has a "Dell Extended Battery Life" power profile that
keeps the battery between 60-70% about 95% of the time. Every so often
it allows the charge to dip to 50% or rise to 100%, but it mostly just
goes back and forth between 60% and 70%. The laptop is over 5 years old
and the original battery still gives me over 2 hours runtime, which is
all I ever asked of it even when it was new.

To the OP: What kind of laptop has a battery that is not easily
replaceable? Tablets and phones, but now laptops, too?


HP Envy for 1.
Anything with an Apple logo......

The assumption made is that you will replace it by the time the
battery is toast, or you dont mind paying the manufacturer to swap it.

--
Stephen
  #14  
Old June 24th 18, 07:40 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,718
Default Advice on maximising lifetime (charge cycles) of laptop battery

In article , Stephen
wrote:

To the OP: What kind of laptop has a battery that is not easily
replaceable? Tablets and phones, but now laptops, too?


HP Envy for 1.
Anything with an Apple logo......


microsoft surface laptop

The assumption made is that you will replace it by the time the
battery is toast,


yep. the battery will normally outlast the useful life of the product.

or you dont mind paying the manufacturer to swap it.


or you remove a few screws rather than slide a latch.

unless it's a microsoft surface laptop:
https://www.theverge.com/2017/6/17/1...face-teardown-
ifixit-impossible-repair
...The team also reports that they canıt disconnect the battery until
several other components are removed, and once they get to it, they
found that itıs glued directly to the case.
  #15  
Old June 24th 18, 07:43 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Char Jackson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,449
Default Advice on maximising lifetime (charge cycles) of laptop battery

On Sun, 24 Jun 2018 19:27:34 +0100, Stephen
wrote:

On Sun, 24 Jun 2018 11:02:09 -0500, Char Jackson
wrote:

To the OP: What kind of laptop has a battery that is not easily
replaceable? Tablets and phones, but now laptops, too?


HP Envy for 1.


HP offers battery replacement info for at least one of their Envy models
he https://support.hp.com/us-en/document/c04351268

It looks inconvenient, but certainly not impossible.

Anything with an Apple logo......


I don't own anything with an Apple logo, so thanks for that.

 




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